I am glad that blizzard has seen that rogue is a problem and decided to nerf it, however judging on the nerfs announced, this is far from enough and rogue will be nerfed further in future announcements.
The current changes feel like a half baked approach without enough conviction, they might as well done nothing.
Except for the preparation nerf, being correct, the other two nerfs to miscreant and raiding party hits the wrong spot, this nerf will only slightly affect the good rogue players , the bad ones lets mana float all the time.
Nerfing Evil miscreant to 4 health does literally nothing at all, the lackeys will still be too strong, making it 3 health is what would be better, but since the lackeys are the main problem what they should have done is just make it generate 1 lackey with 1/5 health.
Raiding party at 4 mana seems fair, but honestly 5 mana to tutor 3 cards seems more fair.
Edwin van Cleef and wagglepick are not addressed and should have been included in this nerf for sure, how do you deal with a 2 mana 8/8 which happens more than often enough.
Rogue has an abundant of too strong cards that they aren’t able to fit in the deck and what this does is just shift some cards around back to hench clan, burgle package etc while still being the same oppressive deck with no counter play.
Rogue needs to be nerfed further .
Update:
First of all based on the fact that blizzard ARE in fact only targeting rogue means that their internal data suggests that ROGUE is the problem class and the main problem. All of you complaining about an upcoming warrior meta have no clue about this game, every single class can make a deck to defeat control warrior with ease, if they become meta I can tell you this, but if you do some due diligence in reading blizzards post on the nerves you can also derive the same conclusion , their data clearly shows that WARRIOR has a LOT of unfavorable matchups, A LOT, only rogue are keeping the meta in check by being oppressive, by making rogue a fair class again instead of the broken piece of crap it has been for a while, it will lead to a meta more diverse than ever.
Also the nerf to raiding party and miscreant are rather shitty, if you think the nerf to miscreant is relevant, you need to play more rogue and see that people play it for the lackeys , you can still play it bounce it, play it for tons of value, who cares about the body.
Like I said the nerf to prep is the only decent nerf and STILL preparation is too good of a card in my opinion, this will be far from enough to tame rogue. I do agree conjurers calling need a nerf as well.
I understand we each have our favorite class, but rogue lovers are really on another level. Now stop being drama queens. Rogue is far from dead and will still be the Top played deck after the nerfs, myra’s , edwin, wagglepick, prep , backstab si, shadowstep, miscreant , will allow this to happen easily. Wagglepick will 100% be nerfed as well as edwin + another adjustment on miscreant, then it will start being a fair class.
Tell me , what does the nerf to evil miscreant even do in affecting the current rogue meta game play, the nerf to raiding party is the same effect as topdecking in on turn 4 instead of keeping it in your opening hand. This nerf does nothing to the better rogue players.
The nerfs are 100% brutal, that is the only statistic that I have available and based on that I can tell you are wrong. What statistic makes you think you're right? Have you experienced the meta after the nerf in an alternate universe and seen it's all rogues? If not, is this trolling or hating rogues?
Tell me , what does the nerf to evil miscreant even do in affecting the current rogue meta game play, the nerf to raiding party is the same effect as topdecking in on turn 4 instead of keeping it in your opening hand. This nerf does nothing to the better rogue players.
Your argument makes no sense.. rogue's could turn 3 prep miscreant + raiding party into wagglepick next turn with *2 corsairs they no longer can do that at all.
the HP on the miscreat is something really important, that card was just "not worth killing" it always stays on board cause it's too sturdy -1 HP to an early game minion is important.
the prep nerf is coupled with the nerf to raiding party now the minimum raiding party costs is 2 instead of 0.. rading party with prep was the one of the most insane stuff rogues do..
Rogue will be still strong but less dominant.. you don't HAVE to destroy the whole deck.. that wasn't the purpose of the nerfs either.
Sorry but when in the first week of the new meta when I said that miscreant was a problem, people did not seem to think that way. The same on rogue as a class being too oppressive, people didn't seem to think that way.
Right now blizzard themselves identified rogue to be the main culprit of everything wrong in the current meta, and decided to implement these preliminary changes. The people who thought rogue was fine, feel like this is an overnerf, but in reality this nerf does nothing significant, except for preparation, but then again preparation is still too busted for a card, it should be HOFED.
I yet again state that these nerfs are not enough, and the people who disagreed all along since the first week, are still the same who are saying rogue is fine.
I am glad that blizzard has seen that rogue is a problem and decided to nerf it, however judging on the nerfs announced, this is far from enough and rogue will be nerfed further in future announcements.
The current changes feel like a half baked approach without enough conviction, they might as well done nothing.
Except for the preparation nerf, being correct, the other two nerfs to miscreant and raiding party hits the wrong spot, this nerf will only slightly affect the good rogue players , the bad ones lets mana float all the time.
Nerfing Evil miscreant to 4 health does literally nothing at all, the lackeys will still be too strong, making it 3 health is what would be better, but since the lackeys are the main problem what they should have done is just make it generate 1 lackey with 1/5 health.
Raiding party at 4 mana seems fair, but honestly 5 mana to tutor 3 cards seems more fair.
Edwin van Cleef and wagglepick are not addressed and should have been included in this nerf for sure, how do you deal with a 2 mana 8/8 which happens more than often enough.
Rogue has an abundant of too strong cards that they aren’t able to fit in the deck and what this does is just shift some cards around back to hench clan, burgle package etc while still being the same oppressive deck with no counter play.
Rogue needs to be nerfed further .
You have no idea how harsh the preparation nerf is, rogue is a dead class now
Sorry but when in the first week of the new meta when I said that miscreant was a problem, people did not seem to think that way. The same on rogue as a class being too oppressive, people didn't seem to think that way.
Right now blizzard themselves identified rogue to be the main culprit of everything wrong in the current meta, and decided to implement these preliminary changes. The people who thought rogue was fine, feel like this is an overnerf, but in reality this nerf does nothing significant, except for preparation, but then again preparation is still too busted for a card, it should be HOFED.
I yet again state that these nerfs are not enough, and the people who disagreed all along since the first week, are still the same who are saying rogue is fine.
You state things without actually explaining yourself based on reality, just strawmen "well blizzard says this", and conjecture that is simply your opinion. If you honestly think the raiding party/Prep nerf doesn't affect Rogue in a huge way, you simply are ignorant of how this game works on a fundamental level. Now if you were actually explaining yourself with examples or data, I'd consider your opinion more than worthless.
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If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
How salty can you be about a class you don't like being destroyed? This is insult to injury.
Clearly you don't play Rogue, nerfing prep is a big nerf to class identity, as well as a classic card that helped new and F2P players keep up. Now people will have to find a new way to deal with Warrior which is an expensive meta deck for most people to get. They will figure it out, but it's too bad that they had to destroy one class rather than balancing the other top tier decks.
From a dev standpoint I get it. It's a lot easier to nerf one class than balance a few, but it's lazy.
This is good enough. No more prep / raiding part T1.
This is entirely the purpose for these nerfs. T1 draw 3 cards is far too oppressive and I think making miscreant have 4 health is appropriate. Vanilla 1/5 for 3 is fair, so giving it a combo stipulation with one less health makes it easier to punish with most 3 drops.
3 individual nerfs executed on the same day. If you can't wipe the floor with rogue at this point, I think Hello Kitty Island Adventure might be a little more up your alley.
Of course, if you can't wipe the floor with rogue NOW, it's because you're deliberately playing a deck that is ill-suited against the most common deck of the meta. That's a conscious choice YOU made.
Whatever, as far as I know I was the first one to recommend the Archivist-to-9-mana buff, so I'll take solace in that.
Any two of these rogue buffs would have been more than sufficient. All three together are going to add up to a joke on anyone who crafted relevant cards for the rogue deck.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I think it's better to make all the rogue cards cost 11 mana.. What is wrong with you.. Only the prep ban was enough to destroy the tempo rogue archetype.. And you wanted more?
We may see a second balance patch in June since the first patch came so fast and only hit Rogue. Let's wait and see what the new meta will be, but I expect Rogue to drop to tier 2 and Warriors to switch to bombs. Also I can't believe Barnes wasn't hit, big priest will become tier 0 now.
We have 9 classes for a reason. Just because you're salty about rogues doesn't mean the overall goal of balance is to knock a class completely out of competitive play. We've had that for shaman (more than once), warrior, warlock, & druid before. That is never good for the game. I'm glad salty players are not allowed to make design decisions because if they were it would lead to multiple decks/classes getting outright killed on the spot to make room for some dumb clown fiesta memes instead (and I play dumb clown fiesta memes for most of my games).
OP, did you start a thread here to have a discussion about the nerfs, or just to simply tell everyone that you're right and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong?
You think you understand this game that millions are playing. They nerf one of the teir 1 decks into the dirt, making it prob a teir 3 deck now. So now the meta which WAS pretty stable is about to be totally shaken up for a month or two AGAIN! You and a few other people are crying STILL before changes hit live servers, the same changes so many cry babies have been crying and begging for for months!!! It was fun to have such an OP deck for a little while... Thanks fun police for ruining the game yet again (that's for anyone who begs for nerfs all the time so their weird little meta deck dominates).
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I am glad that blizzard has seen that rogue is a problem and decided to nerf it, however judging on the nerfs announced, this is far from enough and rogue will be nerfed further in future announcements.
The current changes feel like a half baked approach without enough conviction, they might as well done nothing.
Except for the preparation nerf, being correct, the other two nerfs to miscreant and raiding party hits the wrong spot, this nerf will only slightly affect the good rogue players , the bad ones lets mana float all the time.
Nerfing Evil miscreant to 4 health does literally nothing at all, the lackeys will still be too strong, making it 3 health is what would be better, but since the lackeys are the main problem what they should have done is just make it generate 1 lackey with 1/5 health.
Raiding party at 4 mana seems fair, but honestly 5 mana to tutor 3 cards seems more fair.
Edwin van Cleef and wagglepick are not addressed and should have been included in this nerf for sure, how do you deal with a 2 mana 8/8 which happens more than often enough.
Rogue has an abundant of too strong cards that they aren’t able to fit in the deck and what this does is just shift some cards around back to hench clan, burgle package etc while still being the same oppressive deck with no counter play.
Rogue needs to be nerfed further .
Update:
First of all based on the fact that blizzard ARE in fact only targeting rogue means that their internal data suggests that ROGUE is the problem class and the main problem. All of you complaining about an upcoming warrior meta have no clue about this game, every single class can make a deck to defeat control warrior with ease, if they become meta I can tell you this, but if you do some due diligence in reading blizzards post on the nerves you can also derive the same conclusion , their data clearly shows that WARRIOR has a LOT of unfavorable matchups, A LOT, only rogue are keeping the meta in check by being oppressive, by making rogue a fair class again instead of the broken piece of crap it has been for a while, it will lead to a meta more diverse than ever.
Also the nerf to raiding party and miscreant are rather shitty, if you think the nerf to miscreant is relevant, you need to play more rogue and see that people play it for the lackeys , you can still play it bounce it, play it for tons of value, who cares about the body.
Like I said the nerf to prep is the only decent nerf and STILL preparation is too good of a card in my opinion, this will be far from enough to tame rogue. I do agree conjurers calling need a nerf as well.
I understand we each have our favorite class, but rogue lovers are really on another level. Now stop being drama queens. Rogue is far from dead and will still be the Top played deck after the nerfs, myra’s , edwin, wagglepick, prep , backstab si, shadowstep, miscreant , will allow this to happen easily. Wagglepick will 100% be nerfed as well as edwin + another adjustment on miscreant, then it will start being a fair class.
Seriously man? Don't you people have never enough?
Tell me , what does the nerf to evil miscreant even do in affecting the current rogue meta game play, the nerf to raiding party is the same effect as topdecking in on turn 4 instead of keeping it in your opening hand. This nerf does nothing to the better rogue players.
The nerf to Miscreant is negligible, I agree.
The nerf to both Preparation and Raiding party is absolutely devastating for a deck that relies on tempo.
These nerfs are more than enough for rogue. Perhaps even too much.
This is good enough. No more prep / raiding part T1.
OP do you have any statistics?
The nerfs are 100% brutal, that is the only statistic that I have available and based on that I can tell you are wrong. What statistic makes you think you're right? Have you experienced the meta after the nerf in an alternate universe and seen it's all rogues? If not, is this trolling or hating rogues?
Your argument makes no sense.. rogue's could turn 3 prep miscreant + raiding party into wagglepick next turn with *2 corsairs they no longer can do that at all.
the HP on the miscreat is something really important, that card was just "not worth killing" it always stays on board cause it's too sturdy -1 HP to an early game minion is important.
the prep nerf is coupled with the nerf to raiding party now the minimum raiding party costs is 2 instead of 0.. rading party with prep was the one of the most insane stuff rogues do..
Rogue will be still strong but less dominant.. you don't HAVE to destroy the whole deck.. that wasn't the purpose of the nerfs either.
Are you kidding me? If anything this is an overnerf. Tempo/Pirate rogue is done after these nerfs.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
Token druid next
Sorry but when in the first week of the new meta when I said that miscreant was a problem, people did not seem to think that way.
The same on rogue as a class being too oppressive, people didn't seem to think that way.
Right now blizzard themselves identified rogue to be the main culprit of everything wrong in the current meta, and decided to implement these preliminary changes. The people who thought rogue was fine, feel like this is an overnerf, but in reality this nerf does nothing significant, except for preparation, but then again preparation is still too busted for a card, it should be HOFED.
I yet again state that these nerfs are not enough, and the people who disagreed all along since the first week, are still the same who are saying rogue is fine.
You have no idea how harsh the preparation nerf is, rogue is a dead class now
You state things without actually explaining yourself based on reality, just strawmen "well blizzard says this", and conjecture that is simply your opinion. If you honestly think the raiding party/Prep nerf doesn't affect Rogue in a huge way, you simply are ignorant of how this game works on a fundamental level. Now if you were actually explaining yourself with examples or data, I'd consider your opinion more than worthless.
If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
How salty can you be about a class you don't like being destroyed? This is insult to injury.
Clearly you don't play Rogue, nerfing prep is a big nerf to class identity, as well as a classic card that helped new and F2P players keep up.
Now people will have to find a new way to deal with Warrior which is an expensive meta deck for most people to get. They will figure it out, but it's too bad that they had to destroy one class rather than balancing the other top tier decks.
From a dev standpoint I get it. It's a lot easier to nerf one class than balance a few, but it's lazy.
This is entirely the purpose for these nerfs. T1 draw 3 cards is far too oppressive and I think making miscreant have 4 health is appropriate. Vanilla 1/5 for 3 is fair, so giving it a combo stipulation with one less health makes it easier to punish with most 3 drops.
You are fucking crazy.
3 individual nerfs executed on the same day. If you can't wipe the floor with rogue at this point, I think Hello Kitty Island Adventure might be a little more up your alley.
Of course, if you can't wipe the floor with rogue NOW, it's because you're deliberately playing a deck that is ill-suited against the most common deck of the meta. That's a conscious choice YOU made.
Whatever, as far as I know I was the first one to recommend the Archivist-to-9-mana buff, so I'll take solace in that.
Any two of these rogue buffs would have been more than sufficient. All three together are going to add up to a joke on anyone who crafted relevant cards for the rogue deck.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I think it's better to make all the rogue cards cost 11 mana.. What is wrong with you.. Only the prep ban was enough to destroy the tempo rogue archetype.. And you wanted more?
Happy warrior year!
We may see a second balance patch in June since the first patch came so fast and only hit Rogue. Let's wait and see what the new meta will be, but I expect Rogue to drop to tier 2 and Warriors to switch to bombs. Also I can't believe Barnes wasn't hit, big priest will become tier 0 now.
We have 9 classes for a reason. Just because you're salty about rogues doesn't mean the overall goal of balance is to knock a class completely out of competitive play. We've had that for shaman (more than once), warrior, warlock, & druid before. That is never good for the game. I'm glad salty players are not allowed to make design decisions because if they were it would lead to multiple decks/classes getting outright killed on the spot to make room for some dumb clown fiesta memes instead (and I play dumb clown fiesta memes for most of my games).
OP, did you start a thread here to have a discussion about the nerfs, or just to simply tell everyone that you're right and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong?
Asking for a friend.
OP, you're what's wrong with Hearthstone...
You think you understand this game that millions are playing. They nerf one of the teir 1 decks into the dirt, making it prob a teir 3 deck now. So now the meta which WAS pretty stable is about to be totally shaken up for a month or two AGAIN! You and a few other people are crying STILL before changes hit live servers, the same changes so many cry babies have been crying and begging for for months!!! It was fun to have such an OP deck for a little while... Thanks fun police for ruining the game yet again (that's for anyone who begs for nerfs all the time so their weird little meta deck dominates).