Hi. I thought about standard format, and made conclusion that Hs will stay more interesting, if developers will remove classic and basic set from standard, because 10-20 cards from each good deck, are from those sets. And will make less cards, for example 50 cards four times, but not 135 three times per year. My thinks about that are due to many cards stays in shadow, we even do not remember them, or we call them pack filler. And a lot of cards we lost in wild forever, under pressure a strong cards. What do you think about that ? It is reallly interesting for me, to hear another opinion. (Sorry for mistake, non native)
Thanks for reply, i see grammar mistake. But if say about meaning of my text, what if remove standart sets, game will changing more vivid. Are not ?
Some classes have classic cards waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more powerful than others, druid before have the best but many nerfs destroy the class, mage was second but now is weak too.
Rogue and warrior have the best core set classic card and is why they rule the meta after rotation.
Priest have the worst and only when have many expansions to work it the class is competitive.
The solution? Send the current classic set to Wild and release an entire redesigned new classic set and repeat the process each 2 years.
The mistake you made is assuming half the cards are worthless and unredeemable, a notion I completely disagree with. Your solution would only create more problems and more required fixes to their entire system. However, I stand by that 2 expansions and an adventure, like how they USED TO BE, would be the best system. Everything now reinforces the lootbox mentality however, so that will never come back ever.
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If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
How about play without base set at all ? Maybe it is not very good for free to play users, but set with 50 cards will more impactful, then we have now.
I agree that the Classic set should get removed from Standard. The developers keep it for tradition and flavor, but otherwise they obviously don't like to see it there, and it just frustrates me how they continue to make changes to this set just to keep the influence on Standard as low as possible. Every year, a few more cards get HoF'd or nerfed. The additions to Classic (to replace HoF cards) last year make it clear they don't want players to utilize Classic too much.
I don't see the point of keeping a set in Standard, that isn't meant to be useful, and I hate seeing old cards and decks become unplayable. Not to mention, that Classes may suffer severely in both Standard and Wild when their good cards disappear.
Sure this would be a huge change for the game, and likely hard to compensate. I don't think it would be smart to do it just like that. But this constant back and forth between "Classic is an important set that is supposed to provide solid tools" and "we think Classic cards should not play a major role in Standard decks" can't go on.
As for Basic: The game needs a Basic set. It's important to have cards that new players get to start with, and that define the classes. They should stay in Standard.
But again, I hate how the developers treat these cards. They don't even differentiate between Basic and Classic, they just say "old cards" and nerf them just as liberally if it is for the sake of Standard. That's not how a Basic set should get treated. I mean, every player starts with these cards, and the many, many changes done so far already had a heavy impact on the experience for new players. All the old videos and basic decklists meant to help new players out have largely become obsolete. And if you happen to be in that exploring phase, you might be unlucky enough to have your favorite class butchered when you were just getting started - no refund, no compensation, you can only switch classes.
I would suggest a rework of the Basic set to turn it into what it is supposed to be, strong and simple deck-building tools, and then leave it alone. Whatever changes may or may not become necessary in the future should not target the Basic set any longer. If some of the current cards are too strong, then send them to HoF and replace them. It's ok that the neutral Basic cards are unremarkable and some underpowered, but it can't be that half the Class cards (or more) for certain classes are way underpowered or outright useless.
I don't like the idea. Class identity will be lost unless they make a lot of reprints. It would also make the game more expensive.
While I don't agree that the OP's suggestion would be good to implement I'd argue that class identity has already been lost & twisted for some classes.
For example, back when DKs were around Jaina turned mage from a class that intentionally lacked healing (in most cases) to one of the best self sustaining classes. Now, Khadgar Mage has turned what used to be a fairly spell heavy class into a more minion oriented one (which already happened with Elemental Mage in previous metas).
Shaman AoE used to be defined by overload drawbacks and still struggled with big minions (unless you used the rotated Volcano on tall boards with less than 15 health), but now can sit on board clears that reset the tempo for 5 mana.
Paladin had its aggro fast paced identity stripped with the removal of Divine Skill without having any other playstyle to replace the lost identity.
And who the hell knows what priest's identity is ever supposed to be (The vanilla IF priest? The old control, deathrattle, or N'Zoth type of greed priest? Midrange via Dragon or SS Priest like in old metas? Or OTK/combo like Razakus, Mecha'Thun, MB, or Gallery Priest?) Currently the class' unstable class identity in standard is combo (I guess?) via Nomi Priest.
I don't think resetting class identity would be that horrible at this point considering that it is inconsistently changed or preserved for almost all of the classes in standard anyway.
Hi. I thought about standard format, and made conclusion that Hs will stay more interesting, if developers will remove classic and basic set from standard, because 10-20 cards from each good deck, are from those sets. And will make less cards, for example 50 cards four times, but not 135 three times per year. My thinks about that are due to many cards stays in shadow, we even do not remember them, or we call them pack filler. And a lot of cards we lost in wild forever, under pressure a strong cards. What do you think about that ? It is reallly interesting for me, to hear another opinion. (Sorry for mistake, non native)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/standard
Thanks for reply, i see grammar mistake. But if say about meaning of my text, what if remove standart sets, game will changing more vivid. Are not ?
Some classes have classic cards waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more powerful than others, druid before have the best but many nerfs destroy the class, mage was second but now is weak too.
Rogue and warrior have the best core set classic card and is why they rule the meta after rotation.
Priest have the worst and only when have many expansions to work it the class is competitive.
The solution? Send the current classic set to Wild and release an entire redesigned new classic set and repeat the process each 2 years.
That means they would have to make another core basic Set that's free to use. Seems alot of work and more planning,
The mistake you made is assuming half the cards are worthless and unredeemable, a notion I completely disagree with. Your solution would only create more problems and more required fixes to their entire system. However, I stand by that 2 expansions and an adventure, like how they USED TO BE, would be the best system. Everything now reinforces the lootbox mentality however, so that will never come back ever.
If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
How about play without base set at all ? Maybe it is not very good for free to play users, but set with 50 cards will more impactful, then we have now.
I don't like the idea. Class identity will be lost unless they make a lot of reprints. It would also make the game more expensive.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I agree that the Classic set should get removed from Standard. The developers keep it for tradition and flavor, but otherwise they obviously don't like to see it there, and it just frustrates me how they continue to make changes to this set just to keep the influence on Standard as low as possible. Every year, a few more cards get HoF'd or nerfed. The additions to Classic (to replace HoF cards) last year make it clear they don't want players to utilize Classic too much.
I don't see the point of keeping a set in Standard, that isn't meant to be useful, and I hate seeing old cards and decks become unplayable. Not to mention, that Classes may suffer severely in both Standard and Wild when their good cards disappear.
Sure this would be a huge change for the game, and likely hard to compensate. I don't think it would be smart to do it just like that. But this constant back and forth between "Classic is an important set that is supposed to provide solid tools" and "we think Classic cards should not play a major role in Standard decks" can't go on.
As for Basic: The game needs a Basic set. It's important to have cards that new players get to start with, and that define the classes. They should stay in Standard.
But again, I hate how the developers treat these cards. They don't even differentiate between Basic and Classic, they just say "old cards" and nerf them just as liberally if it is for the sake of Standard. That's not how a Basic set should get treated. I mean, every player starts with these cards, and the many, many changes done so far already had a heavy impact on the experience for new players. All the old videos and basic decklists meant to help new players out have largely become obsolete. And if you happen to be in that exploring phase, you might be unlucky enough to have your favorite class butchered when you were just getting started - no refund, no compensation, you can only switch classes.
I would suggest a rework of the Basic set to turn it into what it is supposed to be, strong and simple deck-building tools, and then leave it alone. Whatever changes may or may not become necessary in the future should not target the Basic set any longer. If some of the current cards are too strong, then send them to HoF and replace them. It's ok that the neutral Basic cards are unremarkable and some underpowered, but it can't be that half the Class cards (or more) for certain classes are way underpowered or outright useless.
I've responded to similar threads in more detail so I'll just throw out the TL/DR....
Rotating some standard cards would be good for the game. Eliminating or replacing standard would not be good, would just make people angry.
While I don't agree that the OP's suggestion would be good to implement I'd argue that class identity has already been lost & twisted for some classes.
For example, back when DKs were around Jaina turned mage from a class that intentionally lacked healing (in most cases) to one of the best self sustaining classes. Now, Khadgar Mage has turned what used to be a fairly spell heavy class into a more minion oriented one (which already happened with Elemental Mage in previous metas).
Shaman AoE used to be defined by overload drawbacks and still struggled with big minions (unless you used the rotated Volcano on tall boards with less than 15 health), but now can sit on board clears that reset the tempo for 5 mana.
Paladin had its aggro fast paced identity stripped with the removal of Divine Skill without having any other playstyle to replace the lost identity.
And who the hell knows what priest's identity is ever supposed to be (The vanilla IF priest? The old control, deathrattle, or N'Zoth type of greed priest? Midrange via Dragon or SS Priest like in old metas? Or OTK/combo like Razakus, Mecha'Thun, MB, or Gallery Priest?) Currently the class' unstable class identity in standard is combo (I guess?) via Nomi Priest.
I don't think resetting class identity would be that horrible at this point considering that it is inconsistently changed or preserved for almost all of the classes in standard anyway.
Maybe replace it with a core set, where they use 135 random cards from all expansions.
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