I think the biggest frustration a lot of people have is when they just want to play a fun (sometimes single) game of Casual, either to just warm up a bit or before logging off. They pick a deck that's a bit more fun than functional, only to run into a Control Warrior and get zero fun out of their game. They try again and run into a Token Druid.
The main issue I think is that there is no difference between true Casual and Unranked and I don't really see how Blizzard could identify the difference given how even the primary net-decks will have differences between players. (for instance I run an Applebaum in my Hand Mage)
You could try and just split the two by adding another game mode called Unranked and see if players who want to run net-decks outside of Ranked will go there but if someone wants to intentionally stomp Casual fun decks with a net-deck, it's going to be pretty hard to prevent that.
I think the biggest frustration a lot of people have is when they just want to play a fun (sometimes single) game of Casual, either to just warm up a bit or before logging off. They pick a deck that's a bit more fun than functional, only to run into a Control Warrior and get zero fun out of their game. They try again and run into a Token Druid.
The main issue I think is that there is no difference between true Casual and Unranked and I don't really see how Blizzard could identify the difference given how even the primary net-decks will have differences between players. (for instance I run an Applebaum in my Hand Mage)
You could try and just split the two by adding another game mode called Unranked and see if players who want to run net-decks outside of Ranked will go there but if someone wants to intentionally stomp Casual fun decks with a net-deck, it's going to be pretty hard to prevent that.
The main problem is that you get gold only for wins (and that in casual mode too). I assume, a lot people play those hyperaggro/fast decks in casual simply because they want to win and they want to win fast to get their daily 30 wins for maximum gold. To earn 100 gold you need to win 30 games, with a WR of 50% it will take you around 60 games. Thats so fkin much, seriously.
For me personally, as soon as I hit Rank 5 in Wild or casual, Idgaf about Ladder anymore, because any (monthly) rewards past Rank 5 are just too much work for me, grinding is no fun at all, usually facing the same decks over and over. (While I admit, playing ladder on Legend is fun, the diversity of decks is bigger/wider). Maybe I am just not a competitive person at all.
I play a lot of casual (way more than ladder), and I know that Blizz tries to match me with people with a similar winrate, but I still face a lot of t1 ladder decks and hyperaggro decks, so saying "well you only face those because you got a high WR.."..well.. nah.
I dont know how Blizz could change it. Removing the gold from casual would hurt the casual players. I just wish they would reward you for playing the game and not for winning (and playing fast decks). That is an issue I hate about HS since the release.
And the excuse about ppl playing t1/netdecks in casual to learn how to play them, how to pilote them, etc is also stupid. Do that in ladder, you cant drop below 5/10/15/20. (Inb4 "but I am at rank 2 and I dont want to drop down to 5 so I play it in casual..")
I also assume that a lot noobs or new players play casual. My rl friends for example are really casual players, they only play few times a week and mostly casual, their collection is limited and for them it really just is about playing the game. They build their own decks (they dont really know about netdecking), they are not interested in getting deeper knowledge about HS, like the concept of tempo, what is the meta, etc. And thats great. They play against each other most of the times (where you get zero reward). And I think that is something where Blizzard has to introduce something. Well, Tournament mode is canceled..
Essentially, people have different conceptions of 'fun', but everyone thinks that their fun is more important than that of the others.
Meme players who get tilted because they couldn't trigger their meme in time should ask themselves whether they actually want to play against a real opponent who is trying to play their own game, often implying a victory on their side.
I also get tilted sometimes when the tier-S deck gives me a "thanks" after winning a game in Casual, but that's beyond what one SHOULD play in the mode. Or in any mode entirely.
Pushing the 'play' button against a random player in any mode implies accepting that the foremost priority of both sides is victory, and anything else is just optional. Failing to understand this leads to self-made salt.
Nobody in this game holds any moral authority within the game rules, so trying and embodying any is pointless, and often pathetic.
PS: the very meaning of meme deck/card is that of something wacky and possibly powerful that is not reliable enough to be played consistently. So how can one expect a meme to be reliably played against a random opponent is beyond me.
- An incredible number of people claim they play "homebrew", "fun", "meme" decks in casual. Yet, I never encounter those, or very rarely.
- I don't play shit decks in casual, not even "memes" (and then cry why I can't win, previously assuring myself and others I actually don't want to); but I do play off-meta decks, or decks with certain deviations, like Hooktusk Rouge, Silence Priest, Aggro Overload Shaman... and much, much more in Wild casual.
- Therefore, I actually like facing meta decks in casual. Off meta decks are usually stronger than meta decks (albeit too polarizing for meta relations). Some of my decks destroy Rouge or Warrior, but lose vs. other average decks.
- So, I don't mind playing vs. strong stuff in causal. Power is cool and fun. And i shiver much more when I face off-meta than meta decks. They are more unpredictable and potentially stronger.
- A claim about lack of variety in casual is just not true. There's much more variety in casual than in ranked, even if that sometimes means you're just facing more different meta decks than in ranked, haha.
- I currently find Wild casual the best mode in HS. I have so much fun there. Variety is extremely high. Shenanigans... Sure, people play strong decks, but I WANT to play against strong decks. You play vs. strong decks (because of matchmaking which forces you to face successful decks in casual), but you'll hardly face the same deck / archetype more than twice. Ranked Wild post rank-5 lacks this variety. Similarly to Standard, Wild meta decks often get obliterated in casual.
- Yesterday, I played there c. 30 games. Faced a lot of strong decks. Only one game was. vs. Odd Paladin, but he conceded on turn 5. Two games I played vs. Big Priest. In the first game, the guy f&c$ed me hard, but in the rematch he conceded very fast after summoning several zoo minions. As you can see, only 3 "pathetic" decks, out of 30. And I want to face more of those. It's very satisfactory to win, or destroy such decks. Oh' I forgot... give me more Darkest Hour Warlocks... They are my favorite food.
- I see myself as Nietzschean, so I'm quite immoral. I don't care a bit about feelings of my opponents in HS; like will his meme deck succeed or not. And he can play whatever deck he wants. Complaining on other people's decks makes me feel weak inside. I'm not always supposed to fight fair fights in this life; and an opponent, by playing "pathetic" decks is just openly showing his hunger for power; trying to fix it is like realigning a curvy river. Almost hypocritical. Try to present occasional unfair fights as fun. Especially if you're a "meme (=bad deck)" player. Don't complain - just win!
- Why I don't play "pathetic" decks in casual isn't because I'm obeying some moral regulations (if it's for those, I would violate them with ease), but I'm doing like that by my own characteristic will.
if you want to play a bad deck for "fun". expect to lose, and have your fun.
if you want to win, play a good deck.
If you are complaining about losing with your crap deck, then your expectation is that everyone will just play an even worse deck so you can win with your deck, which is just not what's going to happen. Be honest about what you want. No one is going to lie down and lose for you. There's a reason your crap deck is not in the meta, and that's because people who want to win (which includes you, clearly) will play better ones.
if you want to play a bad deck for "fun". expect to lose, and have your fun.
if you want to win, play a good deck.
If you are complaining about losing with your crap deck, then your expectation is that everyone will just play an even worse deck so you can win with your deck, which is just not what's going to happen. Be honest about what you want. No one is going to lie down and lose for you. There's a reason your crap deck is not in the meta, and that's because people who want to win (which includes you, clearly) will play better ones.
I don't play homebrew decks in casual so I can win, I play them so I can pull off some wonky combo (note - that combo is almost never game winning, it's just a cool interaction I want to see happen). Dying on turn 6 to an aggro netdeck in casual is frustrating not because I lost, but because I never got a chance to do my thing.
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Play whatever you want in casual. The game is pretty much a 1 player game against a computer with the inability to chat. So treat it as such and make you gold
I assume these people are farming for gold. If they put a 50g daily limit on casual mode it might calm them down a bit. I know it wouldn’t stop it all together but if you think about it, a limit like this reinforces the spirit of “casual” play. my biggest problem with the situation is players trying to min/max those aspects of a game don’t fit the definition of a “casual” player and they shouldn’t have to regularly face each other. conceding games, while effective, is a cryptic solution which doesn’t really solve the underlying issue. Thats just abusing the system in a different way to counter the other abusers and people that don’t care enough to find out about this, a.k.a. “casuals” aren’t invested enough to throw a bunch of matches just so they can get their 2-3 games in.
Not exactly. The word doesn't mean that. It is functionally Unranked.
Casual would be "relaxed and unconcerned" Mode.
I think this is the core of the conflict: the name suggests "casual" is relaxed, while mechanically it is indeed "unranked".
The only solution I can see is to split it into two modes: rename the current mode to "unranked" and create a new casual mode that doesn't provide rewards.
Intact, there are countless meme-level cards hanging around in top-tier decks at the moment. So I've no idea how you'd expect a meme mode to be implemented...
Yeah, decks like Nomi Priest or Tess Rogue or Muckmorpher Shaman feel very meme-y, but are also somewhat competitive.
Besides, if you want to play meme decks, do what I do - either play them on a rank floor or play them on casual and just concede to the matches you clearly aren't going to win.
Rank floors works best for me, I get more opponents who are also playing meme or experimental decks there.
The evolution of bullshit excuses on this topic is astonishing:
We started with "testing Secret Paladin/Jade Druid/Odd Paladin/Pirate Warrior in casual before ranked" (Yes those decks take ages to learn)
Then we got the "my top-tier deck is fun" bots. Funnily enough, many were vehemently against a goldless casual, but that must be a coinky-dink (and no, I don't think goldless casual is a good idea either, just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy)
Then we got the "got a quest so I must play the S-tier deck in casual to complete it" (thank goodness, heaven forbid most quests were intentionally vague to let you play any deck anywhere)
Later (and now still) we get "your deck can't be a homebrew because it runs some good cards" (seems legit)
Now we're getting blatant attempts to convince us the word "Casual" means something it doesn't actually mean (I can't even)
I can't wait until, in 6 months, we'll get a new ridiculous, nonsensical excuse like: "All decks have already been invented by someone in the world, therefore all decks are netdecking one way or another"
This doesn't mean all arguments are bad though. The 2 that work are:
You can play what you want in casual, and
No one is entitled to a victory, especially in Hearthstone
Everything else is BS from people who are probably all too aware of their own lies.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Casual has mainly the same decks as Ranked. I play both as it is nice to take a break from ranked and have matches with no consequences. Other than the very rare meme deck or homebrew deck it's the same exact thing on both.
On the good side if you are are trying to craft a winning deck it's good to go up against meta decks to see how they compete.
I purely play Casual for the fact that I have more fun doing it than I do with Ranked.
I get kinda salty if I'm having a loss streak with a strong deck in Ranked but can very happily play a garbage Tesspionage list to 10% win rate in Casual as long as I get some good laughs out of it.
I don't really get how people can actually be salty about Casual mode.
I belive most people who complain about meta decks in casual dont try to understand why you want to do that.
You could have lost some games in a row in ranked and just play casual to take a breath but keep yourself "hot", you could be trying some new tech choices or some diferent spin in your deck but you just didnt draw it, you could just want some games to understand your deck better, you could be warming up before playing ladder, you could also be in a place with bad conection and not risk losing some of your ranks.
I mean i really think its natural that after you copy a deck you want to play a lot with it but not feel as confident
I think the problem with the argument about "casual" is that both sides have a point.
If i'm climbing to legend or trying to climb the legend ladder, I want to know my ideal mulligan, plays, and current meta techs for every matchup, and usually I only know that for the deck i'm laddering with. Sometimes I want to play some Nomi priest but I don't want to tank my ladder ranking because I suck at that deck. Sometimes I'm playing and my kid might wake up any minute so I might have to concede. Maybe i'm playing on my relatives spotty connection and don't want to lose stars due to a disconnect, but I still want to play competitive decks competitively.
At the same time, whenever I'm playing a memey homebrew, I don't actually want to play tempo rogue five times in a row. Sure, I can wait till turn 3 when they prep-raiding party-miscreant when I know it's tempo rogue and concede but that is a huge waste of time and it also rewards people for playing tempo rogue in casual which is morally wrong.
There should be three modes: Ranked, unranked, and casual. unranked can be where you do control warrior mirrors and tempo rogue mirrors for the pure fun of it, and casual is where I can play my Pumpkin Peasant heal druid and still lose but have fun doing it. I think in casual archetype defining cardsets should be banned. Mountain Giant+conjurer's would be banned, raiding party+waggle pick, etc etc. Just an idea that i'm sure has flaws but you could make it work well enough.
There's no way to stop people from taking OP decks, no matter what changes you make or how many different modes you have. Only way to fix the casual issue is take away the gold reward, maybe even quest rewards; you won't see Trihards ever play Casual ever again, and people who are looking for crazy fun games can do their thing.
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I think the biggest frustration a lot of people have is when they just want to play a fun (sometimes single) game of Casual, either to just warm up a bit or before logging off. They pick a deck that's a bit more fun than functional, only to run into a Control Warrior and get zero fun out of their game. They try again and run into a Token Druid.
The main issue I think is that there is no difference between true Casual and Unranked and I don't really see how Blizzard could identify the difference given how even the primary net-decks will have differences between players. (for instance I run an Applebaum in my Hand Mage)
You could try and just split the two by adding another game mode called Unranked and see if players who want to run net-decks outside of Ranked will go there but if someone wants to intentionally stomp Casual fun decks with a net-deck, it's going to be pretty hard to prevent that.
The main problem is that you get gold only for wins (and that in casual mode too). I assume, a lot people play those hyperaggro/fast decks in casual simply because they want to win and they want to win fast to get their daily 30 wins for maximum gold. To earn 100 gold you need to win 30 games, with a WR of 50% it will take you around 60 games. Thats so fkin much, seriously.
For me personally, as soon as I hit Rank 5 in Wild or casual, Idgaf about Ladder anymore, because any (monthly) rewards past Rank 5 are just too much work for me, grinding is no fun at all, usually facing the same decks over and over. (While I admit, playing ladder on Legend is fun, the diversity of decks is bigger/wider). Maybe I am just not a competitive person at all.
I play a lot of casual (way more than ladder), and I know that Blizz tries to match me with people with a similar winrate, but I still face a lot of t1 ladder decks and hyperaggro decks, so saying "well you only face those because you got a high WR.."..well.. nah.
I dont know how Blizz could change it. Removing the gold from casual would hurt the casual players. I just wish they would reward you for playing the game and not for winning (and playing fast decks). That is an issue I hate about HS since the release.
And the excuse about ppl playing t1/netdecks in casual to learn how to play them, how to pilote them, etc is also stupid. Do that in ladder, you cant drop below 5/10/15/20. (Inb4 "but I am at rank 2 and I dont want to drop down to 5 so I play it in casual..")
I also assume that a lot noobs or new players play casual. My rl friends for example are really casual players, they only play few times a week and mostly casual, their collection is limited and for them it really just is about playing the game. They build their own decks (they dont really know about netdecking), they are not interested in getting deeper knowledge about HS, like the concept of tempo, what is the meta, etc. And thats great. They play against each other most of the times (where you get zero reward). And I think that is something where Blizzard has to introduce something. Well, Tournament mode is canceled..
Essentially, people have different conceptions of 'fun', but everyone thinks that their fun is more important than that of the others.
Meme players who get tilted because they couldn't trigger their meme in time should ask themselves whether they actually want to play against a real opponent who is trying to play their own game, often implying a victory on their side.
I also get tilted sometimes when the tier-S deck gives me a "thanks" after winning a game in Casual, but that's beyond what one SHOULD play in the mode. Or in any mode entirely.
Pushing the 'play' button against a random player in any mode implies accepting that the foremost priority of both sides is victory, and anything else is just optional. Failing to understand this leads to self-made salt.
Nobody in this game holds any moral authority within the game rules, so trying and embodying any is pointless, and often pathetic.
PS: the very meaning of meme deck/card is that of something wacky and possibly powerful that is not reliable enough to be played consistently. So how can one expect a meme to be reliably played against a random opponent is beyond me.
Hey guys i got some meme decks to share on my page! Spicy memes for community. : D
Tortolla, preserve us !
Several theses:
- An incredible number of people claim they play "homebrew", "fun", "meme" decks in casual. Yet, I never encounter those, or very rarely.
- I don't play shit decks in casual, not even "memes" (and then cry why I can't win, previously assuring myself and others I actually don't want to); but I do play off-meta decks, or decks with certain deviations, like Hooktusk Rouge, Silence Priest, Aggro Overload Shaman... and much, much more in Wild casual.
- Therefore, I actually like facing meta decks in casual. Off meta decks are usually stronger than meta decks (albeit too polarizing for meta relations). Some of my decks destroy Rouge or Warrior, but lose vs. other average decks.
- So, I don't mind playing vs. strong stuff in causal. Power is cool and fun. And i shiver much more when I face off-meta than meta decks. They are more unpredictable and potentially stronger.
- A claim about lack of variety in casual is just not true. There's much more variety in casual than in ranked, even if that sometimes means you're just facing more different meta decks than in ranked, haha.
- I currently find Wild casual the best mode in HS. I have so much fun there. Variety is extremely high. Shenanigans... Sure, people play strong decks, but I WANT to play against strong decks. You play vs. strong decks (because of matchmaking which forces you to face successful decks in casual), but you'll hardly face the same deck / archetype more than twice. Ranked Wild post rank-5 lacks this variety. Similarly to Standard, Wild meta decks often get obliterated in casual.
- Yesterday, I played there c. 30 games. Faced a lot of strong decks. Only one game was. vs. Odd Paladin, but he conceded on turn 5. Two games I played vs. Big Priest. In the first game, the guy f&c$ed me hard, but in the rematch he conceded very fast after summoning several zoo minions. As you can see, only 3 "pathetic" decks, out of 30. And I want to face more of those. It's very satisfactory to win, or destroy such decks. Oh' I forgot... give me more Darkest Hour Warlocks... They are my favorite food.
- I see myself as Nietzschean, so I'm quite immoral. I don't care a bit about feelings of my opponents in HS; like will his meme deck succeed or not. And he can play whatever deck he wants. Complaining on other people's decks makes me feel weak inside. I'm not always supposed to fight fair fights in this life; and an opponent, by playing "pathetic" decks is just openly showing his hunger for power; trying to fix it is like realigning a curvy river. Almost hypocritical. Try to present occasional unfair fights as fun. Especially if you're a "meme (=bad deck)" player. Don't complain - just win!
- Why I don't play "pathetic" decks in casual isn't because I'm obeying some moral regulations (if it's for those, I would violate them with ease), but I'm doing like that by my own characteristic will.
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
if you want to play a bad deck for "fun". expect to lose, and have your fun.
if you want to win, play a good deck.
If you are complaining about losing with your crap deck, then your expectation is that everyone will just play an even worse deck so you can win with your deck, which is just not what's going to happen. Be honest about what you want. No one is going to lie down and lose for you. There's a reason your crap deck is not in the meta, and that's because people who want to win (which includes you, clearly) will play better ones.
I don't play homebrew decks in casual so I can win, I play them so I can pull off some wonky combo (note - that combo is almost never game winning, it's just a cool interaction I want to see happen). Dying on turn 6 to an aggro netdeck in casual is frustrating not because I lost, but because I never got a chance to do my thing.
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Play whatever you want in casual. The game is pretty much a 1 player game against a computer with the inability to chat. So treat it as such and make you gold
Frustration is understandable.
Entitlement as a reaction is not.
I assume these people are farming for gold. If they put a 50g daily limit on casual mode it might calm them down a bit. I know it wouldn’t stop it all together but if you think about it, a limit like this reinforces the spirit of “casual” play. my biggest problem with the situation is players trying to min/max those aspects of a game don’t fit the definition of a “casual” player and they shouldn’t have to regularly face each other. conceding games, while effective, is a cryptic solution which doesn’t really solve the underlying issue. Thats just abusing the system in a different way to counter the other abusers and people that don’t care enough to find out about this, a.k.a. “casuals” aren’t invested enough to throw a bunch of matches just so they can get their 2-3 games in.
I think this is the core of the conflict: the name suggests "casual" is relaxed, while mechanically it is indeed "unranked".
The only solution I can see is to split it into two modes: rename the current mode to "unranked" and create a new casual mode that doesn't provide rewards.
Yeah, decks like Nomi Priest or Tess Rogue or Muckmorpher Shaman feel very meme-y, but are also somewhat competitive.
Star Aligner in Standard is still a meme, right?
Rank floors works best for me, I get more opponents who are also playing meme or experimental decks there.
The evolution of
bullshitexcuses on this topic is astonishing:I can't wait until, in 6 months, we'll get a new ridiculous, nonsensical excuse like: "All decks have already been invented by someone in the world, therefore all decks are netdecking one way or another"
This doesn't mean all arguments are bad though. The 2 that work are:
Everything else is BS from people who are probably all too aware of their own lies.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
So, to answer the original question, I like playing against aggro because counters always exist.
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Casual has mainly the same decks as Ranked. I play both as it is nice to take a break from ranked and have matches with no consequences. Other than the very rare meme deck or homebrew deck it's the same exact thing on both.
On the good side if you are are trying to craft a winning deck it's good to go up against meta decks to see how they compete.
I purely play Casual for the fact that I have more fun doing it than I do with Ranked.
I get kinda salty if I'm having a loss streak with a strong deck in Ranked but can very happily play a garbage Tesspionage list to 10% win rate in Casual as long as I get some good laughs out of it.
I don't really get how people can actually be salty about Casual mode.
I belive most people who complain about meta decks in casual dont try to understand why you want to do that.
You could have lost some games in a row in ranked and just play casual to take a breath but keep yourself "hot", you could be trying some new tech choices or some diferent spin in your deck but you just didnt draw it, you could just want some games to understand your deck better, you could be warming up before playing ladder, you could also be in a place with bad conection and not risk losing some of your ranks.
I mean i really think its natural that after you copy a deck you want to play a lot with it but not feel as confident
join me in burning casual to the ground.
lackey rogue only.
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I think the problem with the argument about "casual" is that both sides have a point.
If i'm climbing to legend or trying to climb the legend ladder, I want to know my ideal mulligan, plays, and current meta techs for every matchup, and usually I only know that for the deck i'm laddering with. Sometimes I want to play some Nomi priest but I don't want to tank my ladder ranking because I suck at that deck. Sometimes I'm playing and my kid might wake up any minute so I might have to concede. Maybe i'm playing on my relatives spotty connection and don't want to lose stars due to a disconnect, but I still want to play competitive decks competitively.
At the same time, whenever I'm playing a memey homebrew, I don't actually want to play tempo rogue five times in a row. Sure, I can wait till turn 3 when they prep-raiding party-miscreant when I know it's tempo rogue and concede but that is a huge waste of time and it also rewards people for playing tempo rogue in casual which is morally wrong.
There should be three modes: Ranked, unranked, and casual. unranked can be where you do control warrior mirrors and tempo rogue mirrors for the pure fun of it, and casual is where I can play my Pumpkin Peasant heal druid and still lose but have fun doing it. I think in casual archetype defining cardsets should be banned. Mountain Giant+conjurer's would be banned, raiding party+waggle pick, etc etc. Just an idea that i'm sure has flaws but you could make it work well enough.
There's no way to stop people from taking OP decks, no matter what changes you make or how many different modes you have. Only way to fix the casual issue is take away the gold reward, maybe even quest rewards; you won't see Trihards ever play Casual ever again, and people who are looking for crazy fun games can do their thing.
If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.