The tier list on hsreplay.net put secret hunter and mech hunter in tier 1, but the best decks by winrate are currently all zoolock decks. Why is that class of decks not listed as tier 1, but as tier 2?
Im not sure where your getting your best winrate information or how they go about searching winrates (i.e. sample size, people sampled, ranks sampled, etc) but zoolock isnt tier 1. tier 2 maybe but no higher.
Zoolock is like tier 3 or worse, not really a strong deck. Certainly not tier 1
It is weird that there are like a ton of zoolock decks with 60+% but a lot of that is people smashing through lower ranks with the fastest deck, a lot of that data is also probably pretty old because zoolock was doing ok when the expansion first dropped but it's fell out of the meta harder than probably any other early meta deck. I saw literally one single zoolock on my way to legend, it's not a deck that has much success at higher levels of play.
I don't have hsreplay premium but i imagine if you filter by the last week at legend and 1-5 then all those zoo lists would disappear. I wouldn't put a lot of stock into hsreplay's lists unless you have premium because with out it there are a lot of outdated lists at the top of the winrates.
Zoolock has quite a lot of bad and difficult matchups. It struggles with Tempo Rogue and fails miserably against Control and Bomb Warriors (aka most popular decks in the meta next to Mech Hunter). I wouldn't be surprised if Zoolock fell even lower on the tier list soon.
Zoo had a lot of potential in the early meta just after the expansion release because all of us were trying different things and nobody played a refined deck. That leaves a space for proven fast decks which trive in this kind of a situation. The statistics in hsreplay for Zoo are from then. So it is not so strong anymore. I tried that Zoo back then, but now when I play it it has kind of a 40-48% winrate dependant on a mulligan. It's just not so good.
I stopped playing zoolock this meta, the deck position felt really weak. I made some observations based on my experience. At the start of the expansion it had some power potential, because token druid was popular and zoolock is strong against it. Zoolock also had strong chances against tempo rogue, but absolutely no way versus warriors. My winrate against warriors was about 15%, felt something like auto concede. But climbing was still possible thanks to large numbers of rogues and druids.
Now this deck feels awful, without huge presence of Druid in ladder I don't feel any power potential. Lacey rogues are hard, warriors are hard and hunters are hard to counter too. Only deck that remains easy mutchup for zoolock is counjurer mage. I couldn't recommend playing zoolock now, all his core strategies feels pretty weak.
Zoolock is like tier 3 or worse, not really a strong deck. Certainly not tier 1
It is weird that there are like a ton of zoolock decks with 60+% but a lot of that is people smashing through lower ranks with the fastest deck, a lot of that data is also probably pretty old because zoolock was doing ok when the expansion first dropped but it's fell out of the meta harder than probably any other early meta deck. I saw literally one single zoolock on my way to legend, it's not a deck that has much success at higher levels of play.
I don't have hsreplay premium but i imagine if you filter by the last week at legend and 1-5 then all those zoo lists would disappear. I wouldn't put a lot of stock into hsreplay's lists unless you have premium because with out it there are a lot of outdated lists at the top of the winrates.
I climbed from rank 10 to rank 5 over a 2 day period with Zoolock. Only lost 2 matches, one to a Control Warrior and one to a Mech Paladin that had a 20+ health taunt.
I absolutely stomped every rogue that I met, which was a good deal of my matches.
I climbed from rank 10 to rank 5 over a 2 day period with Zoolock. Only lost 2 matches, one to a Control Warrior and one to a Mech Paladin that had a 20+ health taunt.
I absolutely stomped every rogue that I met, which was a good deal of my matches.
That's nice, but completely anecdotal and irrelevant in the face of the 50k sample size HSReplay has on the zoo vs tempo rogue matchup. Whats more likely: one person being at the wrong rank for their skill level, or tens of thousands of people getting lucky at once?
If you go to "Decks" tab - look out for "Time Frame" (on the left side). If you don't have Premium on HSreplay, you have "Last 30 days" active. Which is about from the start of RoS until now. So the period is too long to be accurate if you look at constantly changing and evolving meta-game after "Standard reset". Data is very outdated. HOWEVER...
Now go to "Meta" tab and then "Tier List" or "Matchups" (find Zoolock and look the winrate matchups). Look the the "Time Frame" selected on the left side - "Last 7 days". Yes, this data is FAR more accurate, because it shows thata from last 7 days.
If you really like looking up numbers, with Premium you can check 3-day or 1-day period.
So in summary, the meta changed enough - that Zoolock was pushed out far down to somewhere between Tier 2 and Tier 3. Still playable, but not that great.
The tier list on hsreplay.net put secret hunter and mech hunter in tier 1, but the best decks by winrate are currently all zoolock decks. Why is that class of decks not listed as tier 1, but as tier 2?
B/c HSReplay's macro data is pretty useless. You have to use the right filters for it to mean anything noteworthy.
in this thread: a whole load of people who don't understand how to play zoo.
Ahh so THAT's why the deck sees little to no play at legend. Not because it's a subpar deck or anything, noo those stupid legend players just don't know how to play the deck. Makes perfect sense!
Can't wait to see you win the next world tournament. Go get em, chief!
The tier list on hsreplay.net put secret hunter and mech hunter in tier 1, but the best decks by winrate are currently all zoolock decks. Why is that class of decks not listed as tier 1, but as tier 2?
Im not sure where your getting your best winrate information or how they go about searching winrates (i.e. sample size, people sampled, ranks sampled, etc) but zoolock isnt tier 1. tier 2 maybe but no higher.
Zoolock is like tier 3 or worse, not really a strong deck. Certainly not tier 1
It is weird that there are like a ton of zoolock decks with 60+% but a lot of that is people smashing through lower ranks with the fastest deck, a lot of that data is also probably pretty old because zoolock was doing ok when the expansion first dropped but it's fell out of the meta harder than probably any other early meta deck. I saw literally one single zoolock on my way to legend, it's not a deck that has much success at higher levels of play.
I don't have hsreplay premium but i imagine if you filter by the last week at legend and 1-5 then all those zoo lists would disappear. I wouldn't put a lot of stock into hsreplay's lists unless you have premium because with out it there are a lot of outdated lists at the top of the winrates.
because its not tier 1.
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Zoolock has quite a lot of bad and difficult matchups. It struggles with Tempo Rogue and fails miserably against Control and Bomb Warriors (aka most popular decks in the meta next to Mech Hunter). I wouldn't be surprised if Zoolock fell even lower on the tier list soon.
Zoo had a lot of potential in the early meta just after the expansion release because all of us were trying different things and nobody played a refined deck. That leaves a space for proven fast decks which trive in this kind of a situation. The statistics in hsreplay for Zoo are from then. So it is not so strong anymore. I tried that Zoo back then, but now when I play it it has kind of a 40-48% winrate dependant on a mulligan. It's just not so good.
I stopped playing zoolock this meta, the deck position felt really weak. I made some observations based on my experience. At the start of the expansion it had some power potential, because token druid was popular and zoolock is strong against it. Zoolock also had strong chances against tempo rogue, but absolutely no way versus warriors. My winrate against warriors was about 15%, felt something like auto concede. But climbing was still possible thanks to large numbers of rogues and druids.
Now this deck feels awful, without huge presence of Druid in ladder I don't feel any power potential. Lacey rogues are hard, warriors are hard and hunters are hard to counter too. Only deck that remains easy mutchup for zoolock is counjurer mage. I couldn't recommend playing zoolock now, all his core strategies feels pretty weak.
I climbed from rank 10 to rank 5 over a 2 day period with Zoolock. Only lost 2 matches, one to a Control Warrior and one to a Mech Paladin that had a 20+ health taunt.
I absolutely stomped every rogue that I met, which was a good deal of my matches.
Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.
Zoolock is not List as tier 1 cause is shit. Simple
That's nice, but completely anecdotal and irrelevant in the face of the 50k sample size HSReplay has on the zoo vs tempo rogue matchup. Whats more likely: one person being at the wrong rank for their skill level, or tens of thousands of people getting lucky at once?
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
I don't get it either. Most zoolock decks have 64% winrate and I have a very easy time with it (except with warriors ofcourse)
Look at the TIME FRAME the data was gathered.
If you go to "Decks" tab - look out for "Time Frame" (on the left side). If you don't have Premium on HSreplay, you have "Last 30 days" active. Which is about from the start of RoS until now. So the period is too long to be accurate if you look at constantly changing and evolving meta-game after "Standard reset". Data is very outdated. HOWEVER...
Now go to "Meta" tab and then "Tier List" or "Matchups" (find Zoolock and look the winrate matchups). Look the the "Time Frame" selected on the left side - "Last 7 days". Yes, this data is FAR more accurate, because it shows thata from last 7 days.
If you really like looking up numbers, with Premium you can check 3-day or 1-day period.
So in summary, the meta changed enough - that Zoolock was pushed out far down to somewhere between Tier 2 and Tier 3. Still playable, but not that great.
Its my experience but above rank 7-8 i havent seen zoolock or that 1-2 were smashed to the ground.
I got me to rank 5 really fast, but rank 5 is a wall of bullshit that zoo can't get through - Dragon Mage, Nomi Priest and Warriors.
B/c HSReplay's macro data is pretty useless. You have to use the right filters for it to mean anything noteworthy.
in this thread: a whole load of people who don't understand how to play zoo.
Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.
Sure it takes a sky rocket scientist to play zoo. I guess the most difficult thing that you do not seem to grasp is WHEN to play zoo.
Ahh so THAT's why the deck sees little to no play at legend. Not because it's a subpar deck or anything, noo those stupid legend players just don't know how to play the deck. Makes perfect sense!
Can't wait to see you win the next world tournament. Go get em, chief!
its trash the only viable decks in standard are control warrior and rogue.
Short answer: it's not good