I think one great change would be if Elysiana's battlecry was:
Discover 5 cards, replace your deck with 2 copies of each, transform into a 7/7 (with no text)
One of the issues right now is playing control decks is such a suffer due to the lists that include ways to bounce / duplicate elysiana. 10 cards more isn't terrible, but when it's 20 or 30 cards more that's just ridiculous. I've even seen a game hit the turn limit because of elysiana (90 minute game to end in a draw).
I completely stopped playing typical control decks as a result of this type of play, and so have many other people. Because of this aggro decks run into less bad matchups and get higher winrates as a result. I'm not saying other changes aren't needed as well, but limiting the amount that elysiana can extend the game would be a great improvement.
i just autoconcede warrior mirrors, aint nobody got time for that. also eventually it comes to elysiana RNG, so its pointless.
luckily i still farm rogues and every other deck out there
And that's a huge issue. You're not alone in doing this either. This basically means you'll never rank up since your winrate goes down quite a bit because of that. This results in control warriors staying at the rank floor (or dumpster legend), which results in a flood of aggro rogue at the higher levels.
Not to mention, cards like baleful or youthful are crap against aggro, so the fact people are making their decks greedier vs other control mirrors makes their decks slightly worse against aggro.
These are way better solutions than something as roundabout as the minion transforming itself into a war golem. That said, even with these nerfs Elysiana would still be a problem. Control mirrors nowadays are the same first 20 turns and then the game getting decided by whose Elysiana rng is better. Super boring to watch and to play. Making Elysiana more expensive would make those games end sooner, but they'd still be boring as dirt.
Changing her to 10 mana is good. If she is changed to 9 mana, the person in the mirror match will just hold onto the coin and use a banker/brewmaster on her.
Youthful is hardly crap against aggro. I bounce omega and zilliax more than Elysiana. Baleful on the other hand isn’t so great. Unpopular opinion but some of the mirror match games end up pretty fun near the end. Every decision seems to matter more. Obviously Elysiana rng exists but I haven’t found that to matter too often
I have only been in one fatigue war where Eylsiana mattered - I rarely see her used to win games so I don't get the problem? Basicly if they use Brew master on her they spend a whole turn playing a 3/2 and gaining some cards in their deck which might not even be good cards. I will also say I don't play aggro or combo meaning it will always be a control mirror match against Eylsiana for me.
Does anyone remember Dead Man's Hand warrior? Absent the turn limit that mirror match could go literally forever as each side stacks armor and copies the same handful of cards.
Elysiana/Banker (or Brewmaster or whatever else) is only an issue in control mirrors with no win condition other than fatigue. It really isn't a problem.
Does anyone remember Dead Man's Hand warrior? Absent the turn limit that mirror match could go literally forever as each side stacks armor and copies the same handful of cards.
Elysiana/Banker (or Brewmaster or whatever else) is only an issue in control mirrors with no win condition other than fatigue. It really isn't a problem.
No one's forgotten about it, no one played it to begin with, outside an extremely small minority. The deck was never oppressive, never meta, never popular. If DMH got its mojo going you just tipped your hat and moved on, since the deck was hard as fuck to play. The new iteration of Control Warrior does not fit any of the things I listed. Saying that the control endgame should uniform is why people are leaving this game in droves, the same boring old shit repeated again and again without any respite or hope of change.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
One of the issues right now is playing control decks is such a suffer due to the lists that include ways to bounce / duplicate elysiana. 10 cards more isn't terrible, but when it's 20 or 30 cards more that's just ridiculous. I've even seen a game hit the turn limit because of elysiana (90 minute game to end in a draw).
Sorry, but no. Control players don't get to complain about the length of a game.
You made your bed; now lie in it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Yeah make it 10 mana. Then my control shaman can laugh at those puny warriors with my shudder granting extra elysiana some games. I cant afford to run balefuls+shudder. Over value at that point
I'm not sure I understand what is being discussed here. Just to be clear, are you playing a Control deck with no clear Win Condition other than to exhaust the opponent out of resources, yet you are not happy when you find a mirror match because it goes on forever, because you cannot guarantee you are the one running the opponent out of resources?
I would say that is match length is a problem to you, it would probably be a good idea to use a different playstyle.
It almost sounds like, you like to play this strategy, but you don't like it when others play this strategy, and so, you think it's better if no one can play this strategy. Which brings the question, would you be saying anything if only you were playing this strategy? I highly doubt it, you just don't like it when others can do it too.
Not exactly, warrior mirrors are a problem because doble elysiana can end up in a tie. Losing a fatigue game is ok, a bit frustrating but is what must happen, tie is a waste of time for both players, mostly because it means that there was nothing you could have done to win the game.
Not exactly, warrior mirrors are a problem because doble elysiana can end up in a tie. Losing a fatigue game is ok, a bit frustrating but is what must happen, tie is a waste of time for both players, mostly because it means that there was nothing you could have done to win the game.
Alternatively, you could see it as neither of you were able to outplay the opponent, you played both as well.
If you are playing the same strategy, in most games, there is a high likely hood of a draw happening. Hearthstone is not exactly the same because the game tends to play until the win condition is achieved, but it shouldn't be a strange concept, that two players playing the same strategy, that can end up tied.
It is frustrating, but both players decided to use that strategy. What surprises me the most is the willingness to ban a strategy you like just because you don't like what happens because of the fact that others can also choose to play the same strategy and you might end up in a mirror.
In other words, I would assume that if a player decided to play a strategy, they should enjoy it enough that they would be willing to face up a few ties, a few frustrating games, just to get the option to play the strategy they like.
This is even more important considering the strategy is already a long strategy to begin with, meaning I don't think people would really be playing it unless they really enjoyed it, which makes the willingness to ban it nonsensical to me.
I'm not sure anybody likes bouncing elysiana, it's more like "I should run pandas or insta concede against warriors". One thing is, as you said, a long strategy. Endless strategys are not fun.
Don't missunderstood me, I like CW mirrors, I like long games, but when a long game turns out into a tie because you reach the limit is a problem. And is even more problematic when it comes to such a common strategy.
Delaying fatigue is ok. But when it turns into a never ending stall is a problem for the game as itself, and of course it's a problem for competitive too.
I think one great change would be if Elysiana's battlecry was:
Discover 5 cards, replace your deck with 2 copies of each, transform into a 7/7 (with no text)
One of the issues right now is playing control decks is such a suffer due to the lists that include ways to bounce / duplicate elysiana. 10 cards more isn't terrible, but when it's 20 or 30 cards more that's just ridiculous. I've even seen a game hit the turn limit because of elysiana (90 minute game to end in a draw).
I completely stopped playing typical control decks as a result of this type of play, and so have many other people. Because of this aggro decks run into less bad matchups and get higher winrates as a result. I'm not saying other changes aren't needed as well, but limiting the amount that elysiana can extend the game would be a great improvement.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
i just autoconcede warrior mirrors, aint nobody got time for that. also eventually it comes to elysiana RNG, so its pointless.
luckily i still farm rogues and every other deck out there
How bout making her 10mana?
I had a warrior quest today. And I simply autoconceded the mirrors.
9 mana would be sweet
English isn't my first language, so please excuse any mistakes.
And that's a huge issue. You're not alone in doing this either. This basically means you'll never rank up since your winrate goes down quite a bit because of that. This results in control warriors staying at the rank floor (or dumpster legend), which results in a flood of aggro rogue at the higher levels.
Not to mention, cards like baleful or youthful are crap against aggro, so the fact people are making their decks greedier vs other control mirrors makes their decks slightly worse against aggro.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
These are way better solutions than something as roundabout as the minion transforming itself into a war golem. That said, even with these nerfs Elysiana would still be a problem. Control mirrors nowadays are the same first 20 turns and then the game getting decided by whose Elysiana rng is better. Super boring to watch and to play. Making Elysiana more expensive would make those games end sooner, but they'd still be boring as dirt.
Changing her to 10 mana is good. If she is changed to 9 mana, the person in the mirror match will just hold onto the coin and use a banker/brewmaster on her.
What's the problem? OP reads like, "Elysianna is a problem because I personally don't like long games."
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
Youthful is hardly crap against aggro. I bounce omega and zilliax more than Elysiana. Baleful on the other hand isn’t so great. Unpopular opinion but some of the mirror match games end up pretty fun near the end. Every decision seems to matter more. Obviously Elysiana rng exists but I haven’t found that to matter too often
I have only been in one fatigue war where Eylsiana mattered - I rarely see her used to win games so I don't get the problem? Basicly if they use Brew master on her they spend a whole turn playing a 3/2 and gaining some cards in their deck which might not even be good cards. I will also say I don't play aggro or combo meaning it will always be a control mirror match against Eylsiana for me.
Does anyone remember Dead Man's Hand warrior? Absent the turn limit that mirror match could go literally forever as each side stacks armor and copies the same handful of cards.
Elysiana/Banker (or Brewmaster or whatever else) is only an issue in control mirrors with no win condition other than fatigue. It really isn't a problem.
Ppl playing warrior complaining abt other ppl playing warrior. OMEGALUL.
This deck makes control warrior matchups super fun, how to make a control warrior not feel in control XD
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1274830-anti-wincondition-shaman-super-fun-v1-1
OTK players suck.
No one's forgotten about it, no one played it to begin with, outside an extremely small minority. The deck was never oppressive, never meta, never popular. If DMH got its mojo going you just tipped your hat and moved on, since the deck was hard as fuck to play. The new iteration of Control Warrior does not fit any of the things I listed. Saying that the control endgame should uniform is why people are leaving this game in droves, the same boring old shit repeated again and again without any respite or hope of change.
If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
Sorry, but no. Control players don't get to complain about the length of a game.
You made your bed; now lie in it.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Yeah make it 10 mana. Then my control shaman can laugh at those puny warriors with my shudder granting extra elysiana some games. I cant afford to run balefuls+shudder. Over value at that point
Me? Gongaga.
Long games is a thing, 50 card long games is another
Not exactly, warrior mirrors are a problem because doble elysiana can end up in a tie. Losing a fatigue game is ok, a bit frustrating but is what must happen, tie is a waste of time for both players, mostly because it means that there was nothing you could have done to win the game.
I'm not sure anybody likes bouncing elysiana, it's more like "I should run pandas or insta concede against warriors". One thing is, as you said, a long strategy. Endless strategys are not fun.
Don't missunderstood me, I like CW mirrors, I like long games, but when a long game turns out into a tie because you reach the limit is a problem. And is even more problematic when it comes to such a common strategy.
Delaying fatigue is ok. But when it turns into a never ending stall is a problem for the game as itself, and of course it's a problem for competitive too.