I think the nerfs are going to be on Raiding Party, Dr Boom (the hero card), Evil Miscreant and maybe Zilliax.
I think thinking Raiding up to 4mana
Dr Boom gets a random Mech on Delivery instead of discovering
Miscreant less hp
Zilliax maybe just HoF altogether because I don't think you can nerf the card enough to stop it from being played in every deck unless you just kill it and I bet Blizzard would rather rotate it.
Nothing else on OP's list is going to get nerfed. There will probably be 2 other nerfs to cards that NOBODY was thinking about or asking for because that is Blizzard's way of doing things. Shit like nerfing down Equality or something stupid like that.
I think the nerfs are going to be on Raiding Party, Dr Boom (the hero card), Evil Miscreant and maybe Zilliax.
I think thinking Raiding up to 4mana
Dr Boom gets a random Mech on Delivery instead of discovering
Miscreant less hp
Zilliax maybe just HoF altogether because I don't think you can nerf the card enough to stop it from being played in every deck unless you just kill it and I bet Blizzard would rather rotate it.
Nothing else on OP's list is going to get nerfed. There will probably be 2 other nerfs to cards that NOBODY was thinking about or asking for because that is Blizzard's way of doing things. Shit like nerfing down Equality or something stupid like that.
Zilliax doesn't need nerfing or Hall of Gaming any more than Lich King did...
Blastmaster Boom - Now reads: Summon a 1/1 Boom Bot for each Bomb in your opponent's deck.
Thoughts?
Evil miscreant is a nerf candidate. Don't see fountain nerfed, control shaman is tier 3 or 4. Vancleef probably not, prep will be hit instead. Archmage should be nerfed to 5 mana and probably will in a future balance patch when it breaks standard. Zilliax has a small chance to get nerfed but Blizz said they didn't think this card was unfun. Blastmaster won't get nerfed, but maybe the hero will.
Blastmaster Boom - Now reads: Summon a 1/1 Boom Bot for each Bomb in your opponent's deck.
Thoughts?
EvC has never been a problem before and still isn't. Doesn't need a nerf tbh. Perhaps time for HoF, however. It's been around too long. I think the EVIL Miscreant mana cost is fine, but the number of Lackeys should drop to 1, rather than 2. Alternatively, raise the mana cost to 4, but change the ability to: "Battlecry: Add a Lackey to your hand. Combo: Add a Lackey to your hand." Walking Fountain is probably not needing a nerf, but I could go either way on this one. It's not exactly dominating the meta right now. Zilliax just needs to have the Magnetize option removed. Without it, it's still a strong card, and it can have stuff attached to it, but prevents outrageous out of the blue plays when it attches to other mechs. Archmage Vargoth I really don't agree with. If anything, it needs a buff. It's barely playable currently as it is. (You see it in a couple of decks, tops?) At the start of the expansion, Blastmaster Boom seemed really strong, almost OP. Now the meta has settled and we have seen Bomb Warrior all but vanish for the most part (I can't remember the last time I saw one at high rank play), it's certainly not requiring a nerf.
But seriously, enough with these nerfing threads. We know that there are problematic cards that make the game feel unfair for the opponent but leave it to the developers to deal with them.
It is often the case that the belief that any card is overpowered and in need of a nerf lies heavily in personal subjective experience and/or irritation at finding cards and synergies that you struggle to find an answer to (for whatever reason)
In that vein, we are left (usually) to looking at some figures for what is used and how much, etc. In particular, Zilliax is a card that has often come up in developer chats / feedback as something they are looking into.
Not - mind you - because they think that the card is oppressive or overpowered, but more because of how widely vital it has become for a large variety of decks. For some time now, it has topped the charts for the most used card in the game, because of its sheer versatiliy more than anything. To this end, I do believe that the card needs to be looked at and considered for a change - again, not because it is too strong - but because it is too valuable to be left out of so many decks. Pretty much every control deck runs it, and most mid range and combo decks too.
Without RP, the deck would look and function much differently, out of necessity. Without RP (or luckbox drawing Waggle Pick and pirates early), the deck would be forced to be more midrange, since your 1-attack minions simply won't cut it. Without RP, there is no turn 2 "draw 5 cards and summon a 1/5" or turn 2 "draw 3 cards and summon an 8/8". Without RP you can easily run out of steam in the middle and late game.
Myra's is also kind of the culprit, but there are many times I've lost a game simply because I didn't draw RP.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
It is often the case that the belief that any card is overpowered and in need of a nerf lies heavily in personal subjective experience and/or irritation at finding cards and synergies that you struggle to find an answer to (for whatever reason)
In that vein, we are left (usually) to looking at some figures for what is used and how much, etc. In particular, Zilliax is a card that has often come up in developer chats / feedback as something they are looking into.
Not - mind you - because they think that the card is oppressive or overpowered, but more because of how widely vital it has become for a large variety of decks. For some time now, it has topped the charts for the most used card in the game, because of its sheer versatiliy more than anything. To this end, I do believe that the card needs to be looked at and considered for a change - again, not because it is too strong - but because it is too valuable to be left out of so many decks. Pretty much every control deck runs it, and most mid range and combo decks too.
I agree with this. The card isn't exactly broken, but like the old Dr. Boom, it fits into too many decks.
When you can reasonably expect to see a certain card in every single deck you face, it's a problem.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
In Standard Format Zilliax and Edwin are problematic. An early Edwin with good stats wins the game in a lot of cases. It in its current design isn't the biggest problem. It's the fact that the current power level of standard is relatively low and pumping out a 6/6-10/10 by turns 2-4 is really difficult to manage in some cases. Not every class has targeted removal, transformation, or silence abundance, and keeping one just to anticipate this card is bad bad bad tempo for most of the Rogue match-ups. Unfortunately I don't know if there is a healthy way to adjust it, but I think it is fair to say it is an issue nonetheless. Zilliax is played in basically every top tier deck, and we are currently seeing a struggle for aggressive midranged decks to emerge because this card can shut down those games (think a more traditional Midrange Hunter, non-miracle including Rogue, or any type of "play on curve" deck type). I've made a thread about this card being problematic in this set before the set even came out, and I think there is merit to the strength of mech presence and what this card offers it. I stand by the fact that if this card DIDN'T have the "magnetic" keyword it would be balanced. It is still a mech and can be magnetized, but can't be added to a minion you stuck on the board for immediate defensive, healing, and removal capacity. People look at the stats and say it is fine but are willingly neglect that it has 6 keywords!!!!!
In Wild Archmage Vargoth is problematic. Going purely off what the community has said in Youtube videos, online at forums like these, on podcasts, and the overall idea that it is further buffing long-standing top decks in the format. I haven't played a ton of Wild the past couple of seasons, but I can see how this card could be tricky.
I think it is detrimental to the conversation to post a statement and not offer at least a bit of explanation. Feel free to provide a little defense to your opinion.
In Wild Archmage Vargoth is problematic. Going purely off what the community has said in Youtube videos, online at forums like these, on podcasts, and the overall idea that it is further buffing long-standing top decks in the format. I haven't played a ton of Wild the past couple of seasons, but I can see how this card could be tricky.
Please elaborate. "Further buffing long-standing top decks" is the name of wild's game. That's no reason.
In Wild Archmage Vargoth is problematic. Going purely off what the community has said in Youtube videos, online at forums like these, on podcasts, and the overall idea that it is further buffing long-standing top decks in the format. I haven't played a ton of Wild the past couple of seasons, but I can see how this card could be tricky.
Please elaborate. "Further buffing long-standing top decks" is the name of wild's game. That's no reason.
What I meant by that is see the value it is adding to Big Priest, Tokens, and other very popular long reigning Wild decks. What you hope for in a new set as a Wild player is a little bit of emergence/re-emergence of less present archetypes. At the very least a shift in power, however it appears that Big Priest is still as overplayed as ever and this single card has aided it significantly. After considering a variety of well-written and spoken arguments, I was simply putting here that I agree on the topic of wild and thus posted that initial feedback.
In Standard Format Zilliax and Edwin are problematic. An early Edwin with good stats wins the game in a lot of cases. It in its current design isn't the biggest problem. It's the fact that the current power level of standard is relatively low and pumping out a 6/6-10/10 by turns 2-4 is really difficult to manage in some cases. Not every class has targeted removal, transformation, or silence abundance, and keeping one just to anticipate this card is bad bad bad tempo for most of the Rogue match-ups. Unfortunately I don't know if there is a healthy way to adjust it, but I think it is fair to say it is an issue nonetheless. Zilliax is played in basically every top tier deck, and we are currently seeing a struggle for aggressive midranged decks to emerge because this card can shut down those games (think a more traditional Midrange Hunter, non-miracle including Rogue, or any type of "play on curve" deck type). I've made a thread about this card being problematic in this set before the set even came out, and I think there is merit to the strength of mech presence and what this card offers it. I stand by the fact that if this card DIDN'T have the "magnetic" keyword it would be balanced. It is still a mech and can be magnetized, but can't be added to a minion you stuck on the board for immediate defensive, healing, and removal capacity. People look at the stats and say it is fine but are willingly neglect that it has 6 keywords!!!!!
Edwin - silence or hard removal. Making a big Edwin early means you're kind of going all in on your resources. The counter to Edwin is relatively simple - you either have one removal for it (do I need to remind you that BGH is a thing?) or you go wide.
Zilliax - It's a completely fair card, I don't know what else to say. High inclusion rate is not indicative of it being oppressive.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
i feel Walking Fountain like a Obsidian Statue with more trade/lifesteal function and less destroying some minion function,maybe its good nerf to increase his cost to 9,but honestly it one of my favourite cards in new exp,its cheap to craft and good in game, this nerf would be heart breaking for me. I hate when my opponent playing YOLO Archmage Vargoth and gets a lot of value only because i cant find an answer,i think its ok to left him his cost because its a good combo card,he should became more removable from board if he played in early game maybe change his stats to 2/5 or 3/4. Zilliax should lose his magnetiz effect,its okay to remove some minions and heal,but it became unbeatable when you left 1 mech on board and opponent play Zilliax he can kill big minion,heal,and will stayed alive. Also i think that Warrioir's hero card should be nerfed instantly,there is a lot of perfect mechs that can be remove tools,in addition they all has rush.1 cards cant have so much power. Other nerfs that you offered is great and i support your oppinion (p.s sorre for my bed englando)
The only one I especially care about not nerfing is Zilliax, 3 attack down to 2 would decimate the card. It's a very useful card because of it's versatility, but it doesn't feel bad to play against and feels really good to play. Don't kill just a staple that helps give all sorts of decks some sustain and a chance to comeback. It's already super easy to remove at 2 health, and there are way more things that have 3 or more health than 2, so it would effectively cut it's utility in half.
In Wild Archmage Vargoth is problematic. Going purely off what the community has said in Youtube videos, online at forums like these, on podcasts, and the overall idea that it is further buffing long-standing top decks in the format. I haven't played a ton of Wild the past couple of seasons, but I can see how this card could be tricky.
Please elaborate. "Further buffing long-standing top decks" is the name of wild's game. That's no reason.
What I meant by that is see the value it is adding to Big Priest, Tokens, and other very popular long reigning Wild decks. What you hope for in a new set as a Wild player is a little bit of emergence/re-emergence of less present archetypes. At the very least a shift in power, however it appears that Big Priest is still as overplayed as ever and this single card has aided it significantly. After considering a variety of well-written and spoken arguments, I was simply putting here that I agree on the topic of wild and thus posted that initial feedback.
Token decks haven't been a problem in wild since forever and still aren't now. Big priest has always been, and still is, a major problem but Vargoth isn't the cause.
Don't take this as a personal attack or anything (if you even did in the first place). It's just that I've seen multiple people suggest Vargoth and I don't understand why. Card doesn't seem overly strong or anything at all.
Miscreant to add one lackey to the hand and something to happen to Mad Genius. That's all I can realistically see happening.
I think the nerfs are going to be on Raiding Party, Dr Boom (the hero card), Evil Miscreant and maybe Zilliax.
I think thinking Raiding up to 4mana
Dr Boom gets a random Mech on Delivery instead of discovering
Miscreant less hp
Zilliax maybe just HoF altogether because I don't think you can nerf the card enough to stop it from being played in every deck unless you just kill it and I bet Blizzard would rather rotate it.
Nothing else on OP's list is going to get nerfed. There will probably be 2 other nerfs to cards that NOBODY was thinking about or asking for because that is Blizzard's way of doing things. Shit like nerfing down Equality or something stupid like that.
Zilliax doesn't need nerfing or Hall of Gaming any more than Lich King did...
Walking fountain ? yeah lets not have shaman a chance to win any game.. idiot
Evil miscreant is a nerf candidate. Don't see fountain nerfed, control shaman is tier 3 or 4. Vancleef probably not, prep will be hit instead. Archmage should be nerfed to 5 mana and probably will in a future balance patch when it breaks standard. Zilliax has a small chance to get nerfed but Blizz said they didn't think this card was unfun. Blastmaster won't get nerfed, but maybe the hero will.
jarls ? yeah lets not add anything significant to the conversation.. idiot
EvC has never been a problem before and still isn't. Doesn't need a nerf tbh. Perhaps time for HoF, however. It's been around too long.
I think the EVIL Miscreant mana cost is fine, but the number of Lackeys should drop to 1, rather than 2.
Alternatively, raise the mana cost to 4, but change the ability to: "Battlecry: Add a Lackey to your hand. Combo: Add a Lackey to your hand."
Walking Fountain is probably not needing a nerf, but I could go either way on this one. It's not exactly dominating the meta right now.
Zilliax just needs to have the Magnetize option removed. Without it, it's still a strong card, and it can have stuff attached to it, but prevents outrageous out of the blue plays when it attches to other mechs.
Archmage Vargoth I really don't agree with. If anything, it needs a buff. It's barely playable currently as it is. (You see it in a couple of decks, tops?)
At the start of the expansion, Blastmaster Boom seemed really strong, almost OP. Now the meta has settled and we have seen Bomb Warrior all but vanish for the most part (I can't remember the last time I saw one at high rank play), it's certainly not requiring a nerf.
Hearthstone nerfed from f2p to p2p.
But seriously, enough with these nerfing threads. We know that there are problematic cards that make the game feel unfair for the opponent but leave it to the developers to deal with them.
Pretty much all of these are wrong.
Vargoth is neither Overpowered nor Opressive
Zilliax is fine. Although it is slightly stronger than antique healbot you can only run one copy in the deck.
Blastmaster boom's main problem is that the bombs have rush the death knight needs nerfed more than any of these other cards.
Walking fountain is fine shaman isnt even OP
Miscreant needs a stat nerf to about 1/3 so it is easier to remove its effect is generally fine (maybe nerf lackeys to 2 mana 2/2s)
Edwin is fine and has always been fine end of
WTF? OP has no clue about what cards are broken right now and is just pointing random stuff like fountain, zilliax and edwin van cleef LOL.
Problematic cards, aka actually BROKEN cards:
-Myra's unstabble element
-Dr.Boom Mad Genius
-Raiding Party
-Omega Devastator
-Conjurer's calling
It is often the case that the belief that any card is overpowered and in need of a nerf lies heavily in personal subjective experience and/or irritation at finding cards and synergies that you struggle to find an answer to (for whatever reason)
In that vein, we are left (usually) to looking at some figures for what is used and how much, etc.
In particular, Zilliax is a card that has often come up in developer chats / feedback as something they are looking into.
Not - mind you - because they think that the card is oppressive or overpowered, but more because of how widely vital it has become for a large variety of decks. For some time now, it has topped the charts for the most used card in the game, because of its sheer versatiliy more than anything.
To this end, I do believe that the card needs to be looked at and considered for a change - again, not because it is too strong - but because it is too valuable to be left out of so many decks. Pretty much every control deck runs it, and most mid range and combo decks too.
Raiding Party is the problem, hands down.
Without RP, the deck would look and function much differently, out of necessity. Without RP (or luckbox drawing Waggle Pick and pirates early), the deck would be forced to be more midrange, since your 1-attack minions simply won't cut it. Without RP, there is no turn 2 "draw 5 cards and summon a 1/5" or turn 2 "draw 3 cards and summon an 8/8". Without RP you can easily run out of steam in the middle and late game.
Myra's is also kind of the culprit, but there are many times I've lost a game simply because I didn't draw RP.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
I agree with this. The card isn't exactly broken, but like the old Dr. Boom, it fits into too many decks.
When you can reasonably expect to see a certain card in every single deck you face, it's a problem.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
In Standard Format Zilliax and Edwin are problematic. An early Edwin with good stats wins the game in a lot of cases. It in its current design isn't the biggest problem. It's the fact that the current power level of standard is relatively low and pumping out a 6/6-10/10 by turns 2-4 is really difficult to manage in some cases. Not every class has targeted removal, transformation, or silence abundance, and keeping one just to anticipate this card is bad bad bad tempo for most of the Rogue match-ups. Unfortunately I don't know if there is a healthy way to adjust it, but I think it is fair to say it is an issue nonetheless. Zilliax is played in basically every top tier deck, and we are currently seeing a struggle for aggressive midranged decks to emerge because this card can shut down those games (think a more traditional Midrange Hunter, non-miracle including Rogue, or any type of "play on curve" deck type). I've made a thread about this card being problematic in this set before the set even came out, and I think there is merit to the strength of mech presence and what this card offers it. I stand by the fact that if this card DIDN'T have the "magnetic" keyword it would be balanced. It is still a mech and can be magnetized, but can't be added to a minion you stuck on the board for immediate defensive, healing, and removal capacity. People look at the stats and say it is fine but are willingly neglect that it has 6 keywords!!!!!
In Wild Archmage Vargoth is problematic. Going purely off what the community has said in Youtube videos, online at forums like these, on podcasts, and the overall idea that it is further buffing long-standing top decks in the format. I haven't played a ton of Wild the past couple of seasons, but I can see how this card could be tricky.
I think it is detrimental to the conversation to post a statement and not offer at least a bit of explanation. Feel free to provide a little defense to your opinion.
Please elaborate. "Further buffing long-standing top decks" is the name of wild's game. That's no reason.
What I meant by that is see the value it is adding to Big Priest, Tokens, and other very popular long reigning Wild decks. What you hope for in a new set as a Wild player is a little bit of emergence/re-emergence of less present archetypes. At the very least a shift in power, however it appears that Big Priest is still as overplayed as ever and this single card has aided it significantly. After considering a variety of well-written and spoken arguments, I was simply putting here that I agree on the topic of wild and thus posted that initial feedback.
Edwin - silence or hard removal. Making a big Edwin early means you're kind of going all in on your resources. The counter to Edwin is relatively simple - you either have one removal for it (do I need to remind you that BGH is a thing?) or you go wide.
Zilliax - It's a completely fair card, I don't know what else to say. High inclusion rate is not indicative of it being oppressive.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
i feel Walking Fountain like a Obsidian Statue with more trade/lifesteal function and less destroying some minion function,maybe its good nerf to increase his cost to 9,but honestly it one of my favourite cards in new exp,its cheap to craft and good in game, this nerf would be heart breaking for me.
I hate when my opponent playing YOLO Archmage Vargoth and gets a lot of value only because i cant find an answer,i think its ok to left him his cost because its a good combo card,he should became more removable from board if he played in early game maybe change his stats to 2/5 or 3/4.
Zilliax should lose his magnetiz effect,its okay to remove some minions and heal,but it became unbeatable when you left 1 mech on board and opponent play Zilliax he can kill big minion,heal,and will stayed alive.
Also i think that Warrioir's hero card should be nerfed instantly,there is a lot of perfect mechs that can be remove tools,in addition they all has rush.1 cards cant have so much power.
Other nerfs that you offered is great and i support your oppinion
(p.s sorre for my bed englando)
The Great Bubun
The only one I especially care about not nerfing is Zilliax, 3 attack down to 2 would decimate the card. It's a very useful card because of it's versatility, but it doesn't feel bad to play against and feels really good to play. Don't kill just a staple that helps give all sorts of decks some sustain and a chance to comeback. It's already super easy to remove at 2 health, and there are way more things that have 3 or more health than 2, so it would effectively cut it's utility in half.
Token decks haven't been a problem in wild since forever and still aren't now. Big priest has always been, and still is, a major problem but Vargoth isn't the cause.
Don't take this as a personal attack or anything (if you even did in the first place). It's just that I've seen multiple people suggest Vargoth and I don't understand why. Card doesn't seem overly strong or anything at all.