Several hours ago, me and my friend played several games against each other. The idea was to test Lackey Rouge against Wild decks. We've known the power of Lackey Rouge, but nobody thought it can deal with established aggressive Wild decks.
On our surprise, I destroyed Aggro Wild Kingsbane (with which I reached rank 5) and Pirate Warrior with ease: 6-1. Having several options to finish him off was unbelievable. Way too easy! There was a solution for any problem (lackeys).
My deck includes Zilliax, rats and Togwaggle; no Thugs, Nomi and knives. Zilliax is seriously underplayed card in this deck.
I mean the best Standard decks tends to still be at least playable in Wild... It is really not a surprise that Tempo Rogue, one of the all-time most sticky archetypes, finds its way into the meta every rotation with at least Tier 3 success or better.
I remember the days you'd have to play hundreds of games to get good at decks... now its just netdeck and climb.
Another "romantic", taking the moral high ground and calling people to confess. No, I won't let you win with your shit deck. Although, we know you would like it.
Assumptions I "just netdeck and climb" and not being able to play card games as good as you playing only smart decks (millions of other players have no idea what they are missing) ... it's hard to comment or argue. Well, at least I climb, heh.
(...)
The point of the thread is to concern us regarding a Standard deck being able to wreck powerful Wild decks like Kingsbane and Pirate Warrior which would make fun of most other Standard decks and even those of the previous meta.
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“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
First of all good job on testing and actually having fun.
With that said, it would be better if you played a few more games against better archetypes. Kingsbane if of course Tier 1 but it struggles against decks that go wide. Similarly, pirate warrior is good but not all that great as it once was.
Some archetypes you might want to test against are burn mage & even shaman.
Other than that well done. Nice to see people experimenting with wild. ^^
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That's indeed an interesting point OP. I always wondered what's the best aggro tempo rogue in Wild and before RoS I used to prefer Odd Rogue over Kingsbane (more board presence, more robust). Now we gotta consider Lackey Rogue too, maybe a mixture of them all. Gotta experiment with it more! What do you say Gunnolf?
Odd Rogue is solid at tier 2 now. The Cold Blood nerf hurt the damage potential siginificantly but it's still hanging in there. I potentially see a wild version of lackey rogue doing well but I don't know if it'll eclipse Kingsbane and more crucially even shaman. Needs ways more testing but it could work.
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Have you tested it against Warlock and Big Priest? This seems to be another metric to see how viable a deck need to be. I assume that this deck destroy Big Priest because it running 2 Sap, but Warlock is another story with their Voidcaller mana cheating.
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Have you tested it against Warlock and Big Priest? This seems to be another metric to see how viable a deck need to be. I assume that this deck destroy Big Priest because it running 2 Sap, but Warlock is another story with their Voidcaller mana cheating.
You can just pop the voidcaller and sap the deathrattle. It's only really a problem if they have skull up
I'm playing a slightly memey version with spirits of the shark and climbed to rank 3 today easily (73% wr overall). The archetype might just be better in wild than it is in standard due to how sap interacts with the highroll decks that don't exist in standard. In addition, swashburglar and patches really smooths out the pirate package. Bran, dark iron skulkers and fungalmancers are also great cards that the standard version is missing
I don't recommend Zilliax in the deck though. 3 damage on 5 lines up extremely poorly in the wild meta. There aren't exactly a lot of things with 3 health you want to run this into. If you want to screw over fast decks, dark iron skulker is what you want. Just shadowstep this bad boy against odd paladin and they concede
Why play the standard list though? wild has a lot of cards that are really powerful for rogue.. been playing a bit of odd rogue but I couldn't fit many new cards (I think they planned for baku to not be rotated and made the new powerful rogue card even on purpose.)
EVIL Miscreant is obviously an auto include in odd rogue, but nothing else really caught my eye to fit into the deck.
The standard list is very powerful I am playing since naxx and I never saw such a consistently powerful deck, the turn 3 of tempo rogue is more insane that it ever was, Odd rogue is just so much slower than the current tempo rogue and I played the matchup daggering a 2/2 on 2 is like nothing compared to what rogue does currently in standard..
Wild is less netdecked and many people are running OLD lists of decks without any innovations they go up cause other people do that I would take the standard list and try to refine it for the wild meta + add powerful wild cards for the deck like Vilespine Slayer, Fungalmancer, Fire Fly, Patches the Pirate (still good just saying)
Kingsbane Rogue is a strong deck, and it can burst down any opponent with some favourable draw, but it's still quite vulnerable to serious/repeated stalls, Tempo swings and large boards. The same is true, but worse, for Pirate Warrior.
I don't think those are sufficient testing grounds, even if Kingsbane is a top tier deck.
Even tho I do not doubt that Lackey Rogue is plenty viable in the Wild meta, without any Wild minions.
First of all good job on testing and actually having fun.
With that said, it would be better if you played a few more games against better archetypes. Kingsbane if of course Tier 1 but it struggles against decks that go wide. Similarly, pirate warrior is good but not all that great as it once was.
Some archetypes you might want to test against are burn mage & even shaman.
Other than that well done. Nice to see people experimenting with wild. ^^
Yeah, experimenting like this is a lot of fun.
Trying Standard Lackey Rouge has reminded me of some iconic Wild aggro decks and it made me want to compare those. Aside from exceptional reach, me and my friend still believed Kingsbane and Pirates outclass Lackeys in all other fields, most importantly - in initial explosiveness. Heck, those decks often make you concede on turns 4-6, while Lackey Rouge doesn't even count on 1-drops and annoying early board presence. Lackeys gain momentum after turn 4. That's what surprised us, ability to reverse the momentum; together with card draw and easy value generation abilities.
I'm aware the sample is small (will play more games, for sure), but I repeat the goal of testing (small-scaled, just for fun) wasn't to input Standard Lackey Rouge is breaking the Wild meta or something (probably, not even near), but the fact a deck with only Standard cards is _capable_ to devastate Wild counterparts with ease is quite surprising and shows what a powerful deck we have in Standard right now (even if it potentially sucks vs. other untested decks like Big Priest...).
Sure, Kingsbane suffers against wide boards. Therefore, I'm going to have fun testing it vs. following decks: Even Warlock, Even Shaman, Jade Druid, Exodia Mage, Freeze Mage, Aggro Overload Shaman, Odd Paladin, Odd Rouge (Unfortunately, I still miss some cards for Combo Priest, Mind Blast Priest and Burn Mage (Stargazer Luna), although I may craft them [I completely miss more expensive control stuff like reno decks, cubelocks... need more time to get those]). Lackeys having an off-meta spot in Wild isn't even surprising from the Wild, but is quite concerning from the Standard viewpoint. I repeat all this, because some posters may think I'm inventing a hot water here. Or that I recommend playing exactly this deck in Wild, or at all.
Can u add me? I'm interested in testing standard vs wild deck I'm playing on NA server genova#1377
Hi there, unfortunately, EU is my main server; I only have Whisbang on NA. :D Do you have some Wild decks to borrow? If you want to play on my server - Tuscarora87#2753. I have several Wild decks.
I don't recommend Zilliax in the deck though. 3 damage on 5 lines up extremely poorly in the wild meta. There aren't exactly a lot of things with 3 health you want to run this into. If you want to screw over fast decks, dark iron skulker is what you want. Just shadowstep this bad boy against odd paladin and they concede
As I stated above, the testing was on low scale and just for fun. Just throwing a typical Standard build into the fire. Tog, rats, Zilliax... all can be removed and replaced by proper Wild cards. It may look slow and clunky, but from my observations, Zilliax was crucial in dealing with those fast decks. Even in Standard, in mirror matches or vs. other aggro stuff (bomb hunter, zoo), every bit of reactive dmg/stall/healing can be a difference between life and death.
Why play the standard list though? wild has a lot of cards that are really powerful for rogue..
The standard list is very powerful I am playing since naxx and I never saw such a consistently powerful deck, the turn 3 of tempo rogue is more insane that it ever was, Odd rogue is just so much slower than the current tempo rogue and I played the matchup daggering a 2/2 on 2 is like nothing compared to what rogue does currently in standard..
It was just a testing of a typical build. If you intend to play something similar in Wild, of course you're gonna replace certain cards with proper ones. :)
Answering to your 2nd paragraph. Yes, my main point of the whole thread is that people don't see how busted Lackey Rouge is in Standard, not Wild, but Standard! So much about lower power level of the current rotation. :D The deck is able to destroy several of those Wild abominations (which would make players of other Standard decks cry like a river). :D
Several hours ago, me and my friend played several games against each other. The idea was to test Lackey Rouge against Wild decks. We've known the power of Lackey Rouge, but nobody thought it can deal with established aggressive Wild decks.
On our surprise, I destroyed Aggro Wild Kingsbane (with which I reached rank 5) and Pirate Warrior with ease: 6-1. Having several options to finish him off was unbelievable. Way too easy! There was a solution for any problem (lackeys).
My deck includes Zilliax, rats and Togwaggle; no Thugs, Nomi and knives. Zilliax is seriously underplayed card in this deck.
I can provide replays, if someone is interested.
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
okay, lackey rouge is strong, but did you try lackey vert?, also, how does lackey rouge fare in the matchup against lackey bleu??
I remember the days you'd have to play hundreds of games to get good at decks... now its just netdeck and climb.
lol at losing to standard decks with wild decks
I mean the best Standard decks tends to still be at least playable in Wild... It is really not a surprise that Tempo Rogue, one of the all-time most sticky archetypes, finds its way into the meta every rotation with at least Tier 3 success or better.
Another "romantic", taking the moral high ground and calling people to confess. No, I won't let you win with your shit deck. Although, we know you would like it.
Assumptions I "just netdeck and climb" and not being able to play card games as good as you playing only smart decks (millions of other players have no idea what they are missing) ... it's hard to comment or argue. Well, at least I climb, heh.
(...)
The point of the thread is to concern us regarding a Standard deck being able to wreck powerful Wild decks like Kingsbane and Pirate Warrior which would make fun of most other Standard decks and even those of the previous meta.
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Good old days huh back when I played we didn’t have websites holding are hand to make decks
First of all good job on testing and actually having fun.
With that said, it would be better if you played a few more games against better archetypes. Kingsbane if of course Tier 1 but it struggles against decks that go wide. Similarly, pirate warrior is good but not all that great as it once was.
Some archetypes you might want to test against are burn mage & even shaman.
Other than that well done. Nice to see people experimenting with wild. ^^
That's indeed an interesting point OP. I always wondered what's the best aggro tempo rogue in Wild and before RoS I used to prefer Odd Rogue over Kingsbane (more board presence, more robust). Now we gotta consider Lackey Rogue too, maybe a mixture of them all. Gotta experiment with it more! What do you say Gunnolf?
Odd Rogue is solid at tier 2 now. The Cold Blood nerf hurt the damage potential siginificantly but it's still hanging in there. I potentially see a wild version of lackey rogue doing well but I don't know if it'll eclipse Kingsbane and more crucially even shaman. Needs ways more testing but it could work.
Can u add me? I'm interested in testing standard vs wild deck I'm playing on NA server genova#1377
Have you tested it against Warlock and Big Priest? This seems to be another metric to see how viable a deck need to be. I assume that this deck destroy Big Priest because it running 2 Sap, but Warlock is another story with their Voidcaller mana cheating.
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You can just pop the voidcaller and sap the deathrattle. It's only really a problem if they have skull up
I'm playing a slightly memey version with spirits of the shark and climbed to rank 3 today easily (73% wr overall). The archetype might just be better in wild than it is in standard due to how sap interacts with the highroll decks that don't exist in standard. In addition, swashburglar and patches really smooths out the pirate package. Bran, dark iron skulkers and fungalmancers are also great cards that the standard version is missing
I don't recommend Zilliax in the deck though. 3 damage on 5 lines up extremely poorly in the wild meta. There aren't exactly a lot of things with 3 health you want to run this into. If you want to screw over fast decks, dark iron skulker is what you want. Just shadowstep this bad boy against odd paladin and they concede
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
Why play the standard list though? wild has a lot of cards that are really powerful for rogue.. been playing a bit of odd rogue but I couldn't fit many new cards (I think they planned for baku to not be rotated and made the new powerful rogue card even on purpose.)
EVIL Miscreant is obviously an auto include in odd rogue, but nothing else really caught my eye to fit into the deck.
The standard list is very powerful I am playing since naxx and I never saw such a consistently powerful deck, the turn 3 of tempo rogue is more insane that it ever was, Odd rogue is just so much slower than the current tempo rogue and I played the matchup daggering a 2/2 on 2 is like nothing compared to what rogue does currently in standard..
Wild is less netdecked and many people are running OLD lists of decks without any innovations they go up cause other people do that I would take the standard list and try to refine it for the wild meta + add powerful wild cards for the deck like Vilespine Slayer, Fungalmancer, Fire Fly, Patches the Pirate (still good just saying)
Kingsbane Rogue is a strong deck, and it can burst down any opponent with some favourable draw, but it's still quite vulnerable to serious/repeated stalls, Tempo swings and large boards. The same is true, but worse, for Pirate Warrior.
I don't think those are sufficient testing grounds, even if Kingsbane is a top tier deck.
Even tho I do not doubt that Lackey Rogue is plenty viable in the Wild meta, without any Wild minions.
Yeah, experimenting like this is a lot of fun.
Trying Standard Lackey Rouge has reminded me of some iconic Wild aggro decks and it made me want to compare those. Aside from exceptional reach, me and my friend still believed Kingsbane and Pirates outclass Lackeys in all other fields, most importantly - in initial explosiveness. Heck, those decks often make you concede on turns 4-6, while Lackey Rouge doesn't even count on 1-drops and annoying early board presence. Lackeys gain momentum after turn 4. That's what surprised us, ability to reverse the momentum; together with card draw and easy value generation abilities.
I'm aware the sample is small (will play more games, for sure), but I repeat the goal of testing (small-scaled, just for fun) wasn't to input Standard Lackey Rouge is breaking the Wild meta or something (probably, not even near), but the fact a deck with only Standard cards is _capable_ to devastate Wild counterparts with ease is quite surprising and shows what a powerful deck we have in Standard right now (even if it potentially sucks vs. other untested decks like Big Priest...).
Sure, Kingsbane suffers against wide boards. Therefore, I'm going to have fun testing it vs. following decks: Even Warlock, Even Shaman, Jade Druid, Exodia Mage, Freeze Mage, Aggro Overload Shaman, Odd Paladin, Odd Rouge (Unfortunately, I still miss some cards for Combo Priest, Mind Blast Priest and Burn Mage (Stargazer Luna), although I may craft them [I completely miss more expensive control stuff like reno decks, cubelocks... need more time to get those]). Lackeys having an off-meta spot in Wild isn't even surprising from the Wild, but is quite concerning from the Standard viewpoint. I repeat all this, because some posters may think I'm inventing a hot water here. Or that I recommend playing exactly this deck in Wild, or at all.
Hi there, unfortunately, EU is my main server; I only have Whisbang on NA. :D Do you have some Wild decks to borrow? If you want to play on my server - Tuscarora87#2753. I have several Wild decks.
As I stated above, the testing was on low scale and just for fun. Just throwing a typical Standard build into the fire. Tog, rats, Zilliax... all can be removed and replaced by proper Wild cards. It may look slow and clunky, but from my observations, Zilliax was crucial in dealing with those fast decks. Even in Standard, in mirror matches or vs. other aggro stuff (bomb hunter, zoo), every bit of reactive dmg/stall/healing can be a difference between life and death.
It was just a testing of a typical build. If you intend to play something similar in Wild, of course you're gonna replace certain cards with proper ones. :)
Answering to your 2nd paragraph. Yes, my main point of the whole thread is that people don't see how busted Lackey Rouge is in Standard, not Wild, but Standard! So much about lower power level of the current rotation. :D The deck is able to destroy several of those Wild abominations (which would make players of other Standard decks cry like a river). :D
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
I don't and I played from the start. Don't shitpost.
You are quite a dreamer, those days never existed.