I've came back from a hiatus to check out this game once again. I had a fair bit of fun, but getting bored again. My issue is that there is too much RNG. HS has always been an RNG-heavy game, but I think they've overdone it.
Mainly in form of the Discover mechanic. It's just absurd now. I loved Discover when it was initially introduced in LoE - there were few Discover cards, and they were fairly balanced (Ethereal Conjurer, Museum Curator). Most importantly, you had some idea what to expect - Museum Curator is usually for some big minion and/or taunt, Ethereal Conjurer is usually for removal, and at turn 5 you can guess what your opponent has picked with some degree of success.
New Discover cards are just absurd. That Rogue card that discovers ANY spell? Yeah, good luck playing around spells that class should not have. It's not even "your opponent's class". Or even 3 classes like in MSoG. Good luck playing around random Brawls and Pyroblasts. Gets me salty every time. Not only that, every damn top tier deck (except for Token Druid) has some form of random or semi-random card generation. Don't get me started on Dr.Boom's shenanigans, when mechs are such at high power level difference it may get just insane. Oh, I forget that Dr.Boom's hero power also rotates randomly and can vary between mostly harmless Arcane Explosion or 6 mana: summon a 4/5 with Rush, deal 10 damage to a creature, yay!
Value generation in general went kinda absurd. Many decks (especially Aggro) don't run draw effects, because cards produce even more cards (hello, Twinspell), cards produce an endless stream of cards (hello, Murlocs), and of course there are one trick wonders that just play what was played before (Zul'jin, Kangor's endless army).
Another pinch of salt goes to the lackeys and how they impact arena. Arena by itself is not too bad, I enjoy playing all the OP cards priest has, my opponents... probably less so. But by no coincidence Rogue and Warlock top the Arena - with their absurd lackey generation. Lackeys are a RNG on top of RNG. They are random, and produce mostly random effects. Ehhh. Lackeys are a surprisingly annoying mechanic which always tilts me when either I get the worst one possible (yay, a random 2-drop at turn 15!) or my opponent gets the only one that will save him (you REALLY had to discover Unidentified contract INTO Contract + betrayal?).
Anyone else feels the same? It's not like it is an absolute worst expansion, I am having pretty good results in Arena and still tinkering with controll-ish Shaman for Constructed but it would be much better with less of these effects.
HS has always been RNG heavy, it will never ever change. But this expansion, those lackey cards etc., they are just making the game worse. Together with not considering HOFing the hero cards, this game is absolutely horrible this expansion and the game needs several nerfs together with deleting elysiana and immediately hall of faming the hero cards. This game can never be balanced if there are classes with hero cards and other classes dont have the access to them. I miss old team 5.
HS has always been RNG heavy, it will never ever change. But this expansion, those lackey cards etc., they are just making the game worse. Together with not considering HOFing the hero cards, this game is absolutely horrible this expansion and the game needs several nerfs together with deleting elysiana and immediately hall of faming the hero cards. This game can never be balanced if there are classes with hero cards and other classes dont have the access to them. I miss old team 5.
As much as I like the idea of Deathstalker Rexxar and enjoyed playing Frost Lich Jaina, I agree. DKs are a bad design, they're way too good without any real drawbacks to running them. Play your average midrange Hunter and Zul'jin is basically your N'zoth. Play a tempo Bomb Warrior deck and Dr.Boom and Omega Assembly are your lategame. It's ridiculous. Poor priest, for example, can't ever handle this: the canonic control class can't play a control game, only some weird combos!
Both of you must be new to the game or have the old meta really idealized. Because you know, old team 5 was much better, not nerfing until half of the community left the game, not communicating, releasing crappy expansions with 3/4 cards beign filler with no text... yay, miss those guys because BB was funny. And about the RNG back then
- Knife Juggler/Fire Juggler
- Blastmage
- Ragnaros/Sylvanas
- Flamewaker
- Yog Saron
- Joust
- Shredders
- Discover with the mage spell that discounted 2 mana
Those RNG mechanics were WAY worse than the actual ones because they were consistent with a small sample of things that could happen, mostly resulting in a 50/50 win or lose every single time.
I was gonna answer the rest of the thread, but u are just a salty bad player, so nothing else to say. This is one of the best expansions that we had by far, ask anyone with a little experience with the game. If u dont like the new mechanics okay, but just one thing: Aggro before was face oriented, so they had to run out of steam easier. Now they are more board centric, so they cant run out of steam as easy, thats why twinspell exists; overcosted cards that can repeat it effects so u can draw other cards while u generate value. But if u prefer we can go back face hunter that runned out of steam by turn 5 and either killed u or surrender. Yeah, much better.
Well... I wanted to say it's not as bad as before the rotation, just because I don't have to see Stonehill Defender or Deathstalker Rexxar every other game anymore, but there is indeed a LOT of random and discover stuff in the game again. Rise of Shadows alone has like 20 or so new cards with random/discover card generation.
I'm not a fan of it myself, and I understand your frustration all too well, but you can't say that arond here. People will yell at you to play chess if you don't like RNG, and defend Discover as a pure skill mechanic that is not random at all and never problematic.
Many Hearthstone players (and Team5 obviously) like their random stuff and think there can't be too much of it. Just roll with it.
Well... I wanted to say it's not as bad as before the rotation, just because I don't have to see Stonehill Defender or Deathstalker Rexxar every other game anymore, but there is indeed a LOT of random and discover stuff in the game again. Rise of Shadows alone has like 20 or so new cards with random/discover card generation.
I'm not a fan of it myself, and I understand your frustration all too well, but you can't say that arond here. People will yell at you to play chess if you don't like RNG, and defend Discover as a pure skill mechanic that is not random at all and never problematic.
Many Hearthstone players (and Team5 obviously) like their random stuff and think there can't be too much of it. Just roll with it.
It is incredibly ironic that you preliminarily flame players that would flame players like yourself.
As for OP: I simply disagree with all but one of your statements; the lackeys. They're just too good to be entirely dependant on RNG. Other than that, there have been many a times before where we had significantly more RNG present than at this time of the expansion cycle.
I've came back from a hiatus to check out this game once again. I had a fair bit of fun, but getting bored again. My issue is that there is too much RNG. HS has always been an RNG-heavy game, but I think they've overdone it.
Mainly in form of the Discover mechanic. It's just absurd now. I loved Discover when it was initially introduced in LoE - there were few Discover cards, and they were fairly balanced (Ethereal Conjurer, Museum Curator). Most importantly, you had some idea what to expect - Museum Curator is usually for some big minion and/or taunt, Ethereal Conjurer is usually for removal, and at turn 5 you can guess what your opponent has picked with some degree of success.
New Discover cards are just absurd. That Rogue card that discovers ANY spell? Yeah, good luck playing around spells that class should not have. It's not even "your opponent's class". Or even 3 classes like in MSoG. Good luck playing around random Brawls and Pyroblasts. Gets me salty every time. Not only that, every damn top tier deck (except for Token Druid) has some form of random or semi-random card generation. Don't get me started on Dr.Boom's shenanigans, when mechs are such at high power level difference it may get just insane. Oh, I forget that Dr.Boom's hero power also rotates randomly and can vary between mostly harmless Arcane Explosion or 6 mana: summon a 4/5 with Rush, deal 10 damage to a creature, yay!
Value generation in general went kinda absurd. Many decks (especially Aggro) don't run draw effects, because cards produce even more cards (hello, Twinspell), cards produce an endless stream of cards (hello, Murlocs), and of course there are one trick wonders that just play what was played before (Zul'jin, Kangor's endless army).
Another pinch of salt goes to the lackeys and how they impact arena. Arena by itself is not too bad, I enjoy playing all the OP cards priest has, my opponents... probably less so. But by no coincidence Rogue and Warlock top the Arena - with their absurd lackey generation. Lackeys are a RNG on top of RNG. They are random, and produce mostly random effects. Ehhh. Lackeys are a surprisingly annoying mechanic which always tilts me when either I get the worst one possible (yay, a random 2-drop at turn 15!) or my opponent gets the only one that will save him (you REALLY had to discover Unidentified contract INTO Contract + betrayal?).
Anyone else feels the same? It's not like it is an absolute worst expansion, I am having pretty good results in Arena and still tinkering with controll-ish Shaman for Constructed but it would be much better with less of these effects.
HS has always been RNG heavy, it will never ever change. But this expansion, those lackey cards etc., they are just making the game worse. Together with not considering HOFing the hero cards, this game is absolutely horrible this expansion and the game needs several nerfs together with deleting elysiana and immediately hall of faming the hero cards. This game can never be balanced if there are classes with hero cards and other classes dont have the access to them. I miss old team 5.
As much as I like the idea of Deathstalker Rexxar and enjoyed playing Frost Lich Jaina, I agree. DKs are a bad design, they're way too good without any real drawbacks to running them. Play your average midrange Hunter and Zul'jin is basically your N'zoth. Play a tempo Bomb Warrior deck and Dr.Boom and Omega Assembly are your lategame. It's ridiculous. Poor priest, for example, can't ever handle this: the canonic control class can't play a control game, only some weird combos!
Both of you must be new to the game or have the old meta really idealized. Because you know, old team 5 was much better, not nerfing until half of the community left the game, not communicating, releasing crappy expansions with 3/4 cards beign filler with no text... yay, miss those guys because BB was funny. And about the RNG back then
- Knife Juggler/Fire Juggler
- Blastmage
- Ragnaros/Sylvanas
- Flamewaker
- Yog Saron
- Joust
- Shredders
- Discover with the mage spell that discounted 2 mana
Those RNG mechanics were WAY worse than the actual ones because they were consistent with a small sample of things that could happen, mostly resulting in a 50/50 win or lose every single time.
I was gonna answer the rest of the thread, but u are just a salty bad player, so nothing else to say. This is one of the best expansions that we had by far, ask anyone with a little experience with the game. If u dont like the new mechanics okay, but just one thing: Aggro before was face oriented, so they had to run out of steam easier. Now they are more board centric, so they cant run out of steam as easy, thats why twinspell exists; overcosted cards that can repeat it effects so u can draw other cards while u generate value. But if u prefer we can go back face hunter that runned out of steam by turn 5 and either killed u or surrender. Yeah, much better.
The only element of exceptional RNG (higher than average in HS) are Lackeys, because of their efficiency, Tempo-wise. But the game is not just Tempo.
The rest is pretty much inline with the game we are used to know (except possibly unnerfed Yogg).
Well... I wanted to say it's not as bad as before the rotation, just because I don't have to see Stonehill Defender or Deathstalker Rexxar every other game anymore, but there is indeed a LOT of random and discover stuff in the game again. Rise of Shadows alone has like 20 or so new cards with random/discover card generation.
I'm not a fan of it myself, and I understand your frustration all too well, but you can't say that arond here. People will yell at you to play chess if you don't like RNG, and defend Discover as a pure skill mechanic that is not random at all and never problematic.
Many Hearthstone players (and Team5 obviously) like their random stuff and think there can't be too much of it. Just roll with it.
It is incredibly ironic that you preliminarily flame players that would flame players like yourself.
As for OP: I simply disagree with all but one of your statements; the lackeys. They're just too good to be entirely dependant on RNG. Other than that, there have been many a times before where we had significantly more RNG present than at this time of the expansion cycle.
Dad, husband, gamer, fueled by coffee.
Currently playing Dragon Galakrond Priest, Dragon Galakrond Warrior and Highlander Dragon Hunter.