I think it would be good to Hall of Fame Preparation, but also lower the cost of Sprint to (6).
I don't think HoF'ing Preparation is the way to go dude. It'll still be a problem in Wild. Nerfing it how though? That's the question...
Preparation isn't really a problem in wild. The strongest rogue deck that utilizes it right now is kingsbane rogue and that deck is more than kept in check by mage, paladin and shaman.
Is because tempo rogue and its direct counter control warrior that priest is unplayable... i've made a lot of great priest decks this expansion but they are destroyed by the tempo and tools of Rogue.. and the ammount or removal and armor of warrior.. even I made a fatigue priest with dragons, healings, and even Elisiana, and still, fatigue warrior just have that hero that keeps creating removals and is IMPOSIBLE to defeat with priest..
i really thought this expansion would be different but is not... priest, my favorite class, i almost gone
Rogue has good tempo tools and a lot of burst to finish game quickly. But if don't know how to use them properly - u will lose just every game and no matter how good was your mulligan or draws. As example i played 2 mirror games in a row at legend rank against the same person and i won all games, in both games he played minions on curve and on turn 4 Prep, Raiding Party, Waggle Pick, double corsair and of cause "never trade go face". In my opinion Rogues should be aggressive and tricky class and SHOULD have good tempo and burst damage tools. Rogues do rogue things, they don't have good healing like shamans, good aoe like priests in wild.
The other thing i don't understand is that the whole ladder right now runs multiple weapon removals, i mean before RoS we had odd rogues, hunters with candle shots and eagle horn bows, cubelocks, druids used twigs, odd warriors, just most of the classes used weapons and there was just 1 weapon removal,2 oozes used only by even locks, even in the era of pirate warriors i did not remember that much weapon removals.
I would be surprised if we didn't see some nerfs soon. Remember that we got Rastakhan nerfs 2 weeks after release and then again 2 months later. The devs are on record saying that they want to be more proactive on game balance this year. I think we'll get a balance patch maybe a week after HCT concludes.
Some possible nerfs:
Rogue:
Preparation: Next spell costs 2 less. This would move it more in line with Innervate. Prep has been a problem for a long time and I'm sure it's the reason that Rogue never gets expensive spells (i.e. more then 6 mana).
Raiding Party: Cost changed to 4 OR removes its combo to draw a weapon. When Rogue has Prep into Raiding Party, the game is basically over. They drew 3 cards deeper into their deck, played a threatening weapon and developed one or two 3/3 taunts for free. Thats pretty back breaking.
Waggle Pick: Increase its cost to 5 OR reduce its damage to 3. This card has crazy burst with Leeroy, but more importantly a cost increase or a damage reduction would delay Dread Corsair followups.
*For the record I don't think all 3 of these nerfs need to happen to balance Rogue. 1-2 nerfs would probably be just right.
Warrior:
Omega Devastator: Remove the mech tag (like Omega Defender). It's very frustrating when multiple copies of this powerful card are discovered in a game. Removing the mech tag would keep the core purpose of the card (efficient late game removal) intact, while removing its ability to gain rush or be discovered multiple times from Dr. Boom Mad Genius.
Super Collider: Increase cost to 6. This card is simply backbreaking for many board based decks like Zoo. When this weapon is played the game is all but decided. A small cost increase would allow aggressive and midrange decks 1 more turn to develop a board and push damage.
Neutral:
Archivist Elysiana: Increase cost to 9. This card is especially problematic in tournaments, with Control mirrors often involving players using Brewmasters or Baleful Bankers to shuffle 20-30 more cards into their deck. These games become incredibly long and grindy. Overly long games are tedious to players, boring for many spectators and inefficient for tournament admins. A simple increase of 1 mana would limit Elysiana to being played once per game in most circumstances.
In addition to my post above, I think the other strong decks in the meta don't need to be nerfed. They all have reasonable counterplay and tech cards that you can include to gain an edge against them. You can play more board clears/MC Tech vs Zoo or Token Druid, play silences or heals vs Mech Hunter, play more aggressive vs Summoner mage, etc.
pretty sure they'll wait until next year and HoF either prep or Sap, there are arguments about not keeping them together in standard, but there arent arguments about hofing both at the same time, nor nerfing any of those (at least not believable reasonable ones)
These nerf everything people are out of their minds.
Thankfully Blizzard doesn't pay attention to them, and nerfs based on what they expect will be the meta from future set's they've already at least partially designed.
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If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
you can't HOF or nerf prep without buffing many rogue spell. (at least classic and standar)
I agree prep is strong but all rogue spell cost have been created in order to be play with it and also in order to be a combo activator. So I don't think it s the solution.
Oh, come on, stop nerfing or HoFaming Preparation. If u HoF Prep, just hof Sprint and any other 6+ cards like Cannon Barrage thats actually do nothing for its full cost. The only 6+ card that can exist without Prep is Vanish, because it's just fair for what it does for both opponents. Or make all 6+ card worthy its cost.
Oh, come on, stop nerfing or HoFaming Preparation. If u HoF Prep, just hof Sprint and any other 6+ cards like Cannon Barrage thats actually do nothing for its full cost. The only 6+ card that can exist without Prep is Vanish, because it's just fair for what it does for both opponents. Or make all 6+ card worthy its cost.
Since when was playing Hearthstone preferable to torturing Slaves in Commorragh my Lord?
Oh, come on, stop nerfing or HoFaming Preparation. If u HoF Prep, just hof Sprint and any other 6+ cards like Cannon Barrage thats actually do nothing for its full cost. The only 6+ card that can exist without Prep is Vanish, because it's just fair for what it does for both opponents. Or make all 6+ card worthy its cost.
Since when was playing Hearthstone preferable to torturing Slaves in Commorragh my Lord?
It's a TEMPO CLASS it's supposed to OUT-TEMPOthe opponents, it's part of the class identity, it's like complain about hunter being aggressive, or priest heal too much. ATM Rogue is fine, it's not absurd and (at least in my ladder) it isn't dominant. I agree that Raiding Party is OP, but if you see the statistics, the cards with more winrate after played are: 1º Leeroy Jenkins, with 71,7% 2º Edwin VanCleef with 57,6% 3º Captain Greenskin with 57,1% Source: https://hsreplay.net/decks/S3k3CuMPG4YSPVa5xbwhNg/
Inb4 do you know why Leeroy Jenkins has a such win-rate after being played? This is because people play him, when they are about to win and need the last bit of damage to finish off the opponent. This is why Ticking Abomination was the card with the highest play win-rate (90%) before the rotation - it was played only when the priest player had the needed combo pieces for Mecha'thun.
Can people please stop targeting the classic set cards with the nerfs. Rogue has a strong classic set, true. But there are so many other cards from the class which can be nerfed. Also, Myra's is not even a key card, making it 7 mana doesn't make any sense. How about Raiding Party, or Miscreant? Increase their costs, both by 1, and voila! Tempo gone.
Can people please stop targeting the classic set cards with the nerfs. Rogue has a strong classic set, true. But there are so many other cards from the class which can be nerfed. Also, Myra's is not even a key card, making it 7 mana doesn't make any sense. How about Raiding Party, or Miscreant? Increase their costs, both by 1, and voila! Tempo gone.
I'd be happy moving Gadgetzan Auctioneer into Rogue at the same time as Preparation goes to the Hall of Fame.
But people target Classic/Basic cards because whenever Rogue becomes a problem (which is often), it's because of this same group of OP "class identity" cards. When the class identity is to "be problematic in most expantsions," it's time to cut to the core and rethink the class.
(This is even more true of Warrior, but the Rogue problems are similar in scope.)
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
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Can I get a nickel for every poster here that cant spell"rogue" correctly.. Lets start with that first OK?
I don't think HoF'ing Preparation is the way to go dude. It'll still be a problem in Wild. Nerfing it how though? That's the question...
4/3/19 RIP Keith Flint. 😔
Preparation isn't really a problem in wild. The strongest rogue deck that utilizes it right now is kingsbane rogue and that deck is more than kept in check by mage, paladin and shaman.
They just need to hall of fame some basic rogue cards because they get used in every rogue deck in every expansion.
Is because tempo rogue and its direct counter control warrior that priest is unplayable... i've made a lot of great priest decks this expansion but they are destroyed by the tempo and tools of Rogue.. and the ammount or removal and armor of warrior.. even I made a fatigue priest with dragons, healings, and even Elisiana, and still, fatigue warrior just have that hero that keeps creating removals and is IMPOSIBLE to defeat with priest..
i really thought this expansion would be different but is not... priest, my favorite class, i almost gone
Rogue has good tempo tools and a lot of burst to finish game quickly. But if don't know how to use them properly - u will lose just every game and no matter how good was your mulligan or draws. As example i played 2 mirror games in a row at legend rank against the same person and i won all games, in both games he played minions on curve and on turn 4 Prep, Raiding Party, Waggle Pick, double corsair and of cause "never trade go face". In my opinion Rogues should be aggressive and tricky class and SHOULD have good tempo and burst damage tools. Rogues do rogue things, they don't have good healing like shamans, good aoe like priests in wild.
The other thing i don't understand is that the whole ladder right now runs multiple weapon removals, i mean before RoS we had odd rogues, hunters with candle shots and eagle horn bows, cubelocks, druids used twigs, odd warriors, just most of the classes used weapons and there was just 1 weapon removal,2 oozes used only by even locks, even in the era of pirate warriors i did not remember that much weapon removals.
I would be surprised if we didn't see some nerfs soon. Remember that we got Rastakhan nerfs 2 weeks after release and then again 2 months later. The devs are on record saying that they want to be more proactive on game balance this year. I think we'll get a balance patch maybe a week after HCT concludes.
Some possible nerfs:
Rogue:
Preparation: Next spell costs 2 less. This would move it more in line with Innervate. Prep has been a problem for a long time and I'm sure it's the reason that Rogue never gets expensive spells (i.e. more then 6 mana).
Raiding Party: Cost changed to 4 OR removes its combo to draw a weapon. When Rogue has Prep into Raiding Party, the game is basically over. They drew 3 cards deeper into their deck, played a threatening weapon and developed one or two 3/3 taunts for free. Thats pretty back breaking.
Waggle Pick: Increase its cost to 5 OR reduce its damage to 3. This card has crazy burst with Leeroy, but more importantly a cost increase or a damage reduction would delay Dread Corsair followups.
*For the record I don't think all 3 of these nerfs need to happen to balance Rogue. 1-2 nerfs would probably be just right.
Warrior:
Omega Devastator: Remove the mech tag (like Omega Defender). It's very frustrating when multiple copies of this powerful card are discovered in a game. Removing the mech tag would keep the core purpose of the card (efficient late game removal) intact, while removing its ability to gain rush or be discovered multiple times from Dr. Boom Mad Genius.
Super Collider: Increase cost to 6. This card is simply backbreaking for many board based decks like Zoo. When this weapon is played the game is all but decided. A small cost increase would allow aggressive and midrange decks 1 more turn to develop a board and push damage.
Neutral:
Archivist Elysiana: Increase cost to 9. This card is especially problematic in tournaments, with Control mirrors often involving players using Brewmasters or Baleful Bankers to shuffle 20-30 more cards into their deck. These games become incredibly long and grindy. Overly long games are tedious to players, boring for many spectators and inefficient for tournament admins. A simple increase of 1 mana would limit Elysiana to being played once per game in most circumstances.
Check out my fun and innovative decks here:
Beat your opponent to a pulp with Revenant Warrior or outlast them with Demon Reno Warlock.
In addition to my post above, I think the other strong decks in the meta don't need to be nerfed. They all have reasonable counterplay and tech cards that you can include to gain an edge against them. You can play more board clears/MC Tech vs Zoo or Token Druid, play silences or heals vs Mech Hunter, play more aggressive vs Summoner mage, etc.
Check out my fun and innovative decks here:
Beat your opponent to a pulp with Revenant Warrior or outlast them with Demon Reno Warlock.
pretty sure they'll wait until next year and HoF either prep or Sap, there are arguments about not keeping them together in standard, but there arent arguments about hofing both at the same time, nor nerfing any of those (at least not believable reasonable ones)
=> []
Thankfully Blizzard doesn't pay attention to them, and nerfs based on what they expect will be the meta from future set's they've already at least partially designed.
If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
you can't HOF or nerf prep without buffing many rogue spell. (at least classic and standar)
I agree prep is strong but all rogue spell cost have been created in order to be play with it and also in order to be a combo activator.
So I don't think it s the solution.
Oh, come on, stop nerfing or HoFaming Preparation. If u HoF Prep, just hof Sprint and any other 6+ cards like Cannon Barrage thats actually do nothing for its full cost. The only 6+ card that can exist without Prep is Vanish, because it's just fair for what it does for both opponents. Or make all 6+ card worthy its cost.
Since when was playing Hearthstone preferable to torturing Slaves in Commorragh my Lord?
4/3/19 RIP Keith Flint. 😔
Like to watch people suffer in Salt Thread
Off topic - is this supposed to be an idiom or something? I'm curious to find out.
Rogue is fine
Inb4 do you know why Leeroy Jenkins has a such win-rate after being played? This is because people play him, when they are about to win and need the last bit of damage to finish off the opponent. This is why Ticking Abomination was the card with the highest play win-rate (90%) before the rotation - it was played only when the priest player had the needed combo pieces for Mecha'thun.
Can people please stop targeting the classic set cards with the nerfs. Rogue has a strong classic set, true. But there are so many other cards from the class which can be nerfed. Also, Myra's is not even a key card, making it 7 mana doesn't make any sense. How about Raiding Party, or Miscreant? Increase their costs, both by 1, and voila! Tempo gone.
I'd be happy moving Gadgetzan Auctioneer into Rogue at the same time as Preparation goes to the Hall of Fame.
But people target Classic/Basic cards because whenever Rogue becomes a problem (which is often), it's because of this same group of OP "class identity" cards. When the class identity is to "be problematic in most expantsions," it's time to cut to the core and rethink the class.
(This is even more true of Warrior, but the Rogue problems are similar in scope.)
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland