But rogue is fine you say? Let’s look at some facts.
-Rogue is by far the most played class on both ladder as well as HTC.
-Rogue is represented the most (15) at HTC.
-it has one of the highest winrates.
-Winrate >55% against 8/9 classes available.
-People are forced to play sleep warrior against it and even then a few tech cards makes it very favourable eg nomi, scheme
-it has the best tempo tools and combo is made easier and idiot proof with the introduction of 1 mana lackeys and discover a spell lackeys, doing combo’s without being good has never been easier in the whole history of hearthstone
-it has the best unconditional single target removal tool in the form of SAP
- A million bounce effect that reduces the minions cost by 2 as well making insane stuff possible
-Some classes maybe have 1viable deck, rogue has endless variations with a core of 25 cards that are amazing
Rogue is the biggest problem class there is with unfair advantage in tempo generation, card draw and value generation , yet the majority of the playerbase is willingly turning a blind eye towards it. This is not a new phenonemon as it existed during the era of deathstalker rexar as well, professional, hunter players thought rexar should be buffed to 5 mana instead of staying at 6 because the hero power and immediate effect was not good enough.
The only reason why tempo/aggro rogue is not a tier 1 deck with over 58% winrate is because of control warrior existing and yet the majority of the people are targeting the wrong class... is there a conspiracy going on here?
I have to emphasize the point above, because it seems most rogue lovers here don’t get the big picture and just jump in to cry about people crying for nerfs. Classes like token druid , khadgar mage, mech hunter , big shaman , control warrior all have several unfavorable matchups from DIFFERENT decks from DIFFERENT classes. Rogue on the other hand has a favorable matchup over >55% against every single class and deck type EXCEPT the three variants of CONTROL warrior. We are forced to queue into all these sleep elysiana warriors all because of rogue being OP. Get it? If you still don’t think that’s a problem, you are obviously biased to the point you don’t need to waste time here.
Rogue is fun, you say? As you all know fun is subjective, just because you think rogue is fun doesn’t mean that everyone think it’s fun and make it any less deserving on a nerf based on data. Just like a diehard group of people who think priests are fun, or sleep warrior are fun doesn’t make it any less a candidate. But all the data right now points towards rogue being oppressive and needing a merf.
Anyway let’s talk about the busted rogue class which is represented the most in the upcoming hct as a nobrainer inclusion because it’s busted according to all the pro players.
Let’s see a list of possible rogue nerfs to test the waters include:
Preparation> change it to 1 mana.
Backstab > zap has 1 mana overload so change it to 1 mana or deal 1 damage
Raiding party > change it to 4 mana.
Sap> it’s a better execute, polymorph, shield slam without conditions, change to 4 mana.
Extra passive to hero power> Rogue always goes first, so they never get the coin.
SI agent > change it to 4 mana
Myra’s unstable element> let’s make it 7 mana, why not?
The only reason why tempo/aggro rogue is not a tier 1 deck with over 58% winrate is because of control warrior existing
There you have the answer why rogue should not have to be nerfed. As long as there are counterdecks there´s no reason to nerf imo.
BTW: I like playing rogue and I´m glad that rogue has finally a good deck again. There were times were rogue was just nothing. This time will come again, but hopefully not because of a silly not needed nerf.
Pretty sure Blizzard will nerf a number of cards once including rogue too (Most notably Raiding Party.)
I would say something that nobody will care but... I have stopped playing ranked because of Rogue too, so I wanted a break from ranked until I feel I want to play again.
EDIT: If there is any reason that there shouldn't be a nerf for Rogue, I'm fine with it, as long as there is a reasonable way to play against it, but for now... I just find it hard to deal with it, blame my bad skill I guess.
The only reason why tempo/aggro rogue is not a tier 1 deck with over 58% winrate is because of control warrior existing
There you have the answer why rogue should not have to be nerfed. As long as there are counterdecks there´s no reason to nerf imo.
BTW: I like playing rogue and I´m glad that rogue has finally a good deck again. There were times were rogue was just nothing. This time will come again, but hopefully not because of a silly not needed nerf.
Lol , look at the data. You don’t think >55% winrate against 8/9 classes is a problem?
Main problem right now is just the flawless curve of Raiding Party into Pick + both Dread Corsairs into Greenskin for even more damage.
They'll probably nerf it to 5-mana or reduce the attack by 1 (to prevent the Pirate spam)
Raiding Party is alsso a possibility, but I#m somewhat skeptical given that they didn't nerf it when Kingsbane was running amok. Maybe they'll go for Prep this time, by making it 1-mana but reduces by 4, meaning it's still just the same with spells of 4-mana above but worse with stuff like Eviscerate or Raiding Party (which also results in an indirect nerf to Edwin, which also not bad, since that card iss really bonkers atm)
The only reason why tempo/aggro rogue is not a tier 1 deck with over 58% winrate is because of control warrior existing and yet people are targeting the wrong class LOL.
Let’s see a list of possible nerfs include:
Preparation> change it to 1 mana.
Backstab > change it to 1 mana or deal 1 damage
Raiding party > change it to 4 mana.
SI agent > change it to 4 mana
Myra’s unstable element> let’s make it 7 mana, why not?
Evil miscreant > change it to 4 mana.
EdWin van cleef> make it 4 mana.
4 mana taunt pirate> change it to 5 mana
What else am I missing?
Oh boy, someone here is reeeeeeally hates rogue and wants them to have 10% winrate
Is any class safe from people asking for nerfs? I don’t play rogue but it doesn’t need nerfing at least it’s actually fun to play against unlike fall to sleep warrior
Deckhand and Leeroy seem the ones most likely to take a hit, since they have always been somewhat of a problem and staples in any reincarnation of aggro rogue or anything aggro related. Personally I don't think the deck is that good against stuff like control Mage and Warrior and they run out of steam quite fast if you can withstand the shenanigans with the weapon and 0 mana 3/3s. It is dreadfully dull to play against though and 99% of hearthstone content uploaded on youtube is someone playing against this awful deck, so as a whole it is bringing the game down by quite a bit as far as enjoyment goes
I just love rogue atm. It's the only reason I am playing HS atm because it's so versatile and leads to unexpected things because of the random effects.
But yes, the smorc deck is pretty busted right now. It has very few weaknesses and so many tools to dictate the game or come back from a disadvantage.
Is any class safe from people asking for nerfs? I don’t play rogue but it doesn’t need nerfing at least it’s actually fun to play against unlike fall to sleep warrior
>55% winrate against all the classes except warrior.
> doesn’t need nerfing
Okay. People are forced to play sleep warrior because of coffee rogue
Lol , look at the data. You don’t think >55% winrate against 8/9 classes is a problem?
No it isn´t imo. Just play some techcards. Or play the deck yourself to lern the weeknesses. There will for sure come a counterdeck. It just needs some time.
It´s everytime the same. Nerf, please nerf, this deck is so op. And 2-3 weeks and 1-2 counterdecks later nobody recognize the deck anymore. And a winrate about 55% isn´t that much. Thats just normal, like it ever was with the best decks. We can speak about this again, when the deck has a Winrate about 65-70%.
Tbh, I always thought Raiding Party was insane. Tutored draw 3 for (3) is bonkers. A nerf to (4) could already be enough (and the card would still be very strong).
If they nerfed that, Preparation would stay inherently problematic, but once more in check.
The other cards currently in Tempo Rogue are also very powerful, but I have a harder time at envisioning a fair nerf for them (without ruining the cards), since they are not really bonkers, however strong.
I wish when people post "evidence" for a claim, they would actually bother to read it first. 53% WinRate? So OP, y'alll! (Look up Zoolock. I think you're going to spit your milk if 53% WR concerns you that much...) < 35% against Control Warrior?! There's your answer right there. Tell me again how good Rogue is? (Hint: It's not...)
Sigh... Rogue is fine. Nothing to see here. Moving on...
Let’s see a list of possible rogue nerfs to test the waters include:
Preparation> change it to 1 mana.
Backstab > change it to 1 mana or deal 1 damage
Raiding party > change it to 4 mana.
Extra passive to hero power> Rogue always goes first, so they never get the coin.
SI agent > change it to 4 mana
Myra’s unstable element> let’s make it 7 mana, why not?
Evil miscreant > change it to 4 mana.
EdWin van cleef> make it 4 mana.
4 mana taunt pirate> change it to 5 mana
What else am I missing?
You absolutely have no idea what a combo class is and how difficult it is most of time to trigger your combos right with the less mana you have, before your opponent runs you over and kills you, cause of no really good healing and less and normaly very expensive carddraw. Atm it is a little bit easier for rogue, that´s right. But I don´t really see any need to nerf.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
But rogue is fine you say? Let’s look at some facts.
-Rogue is by far the most played class on both ladder as well as HTC.
-Rogue is represented the most (15) at HTC.
-it has one of the highest winrates.
-Winrate >55% against 8/9 classes available.
-People are forced to play sleep warrior against it and even then a few tech cards makes it very favourable eg nomi, scheme
-it has the best tempo tools and combo is made easier and idiot proof with the introduction of 1 mana lackeys and discover a spell lackeys, doing combo’s without being good has never been easier in the whole history of hearthstone
-it has the best unconditional single target removal tool in the form of SAP
- A million bounce effect that reduces the minions cost by 2 as well making insane stuff possible
-Some classes maybe have 1viable deck, rogue has endless variations with a core of 25 cards that are amazing
Also I will just leave this here
https://hsreplay.net/archetypes/169/tempo-rogue#tab=matchups
Rogue is the biggest problem class there is with unfair advantage in tempo generation, card draw and value generation , yet the majority of the playerbase is willingly turning a blind eye towards it. This is not a new phenonemon as it existed during the era of deathstalker rexar as well, professional, hunter players thought rexar should be buffed to 5 mana instead of staying at 6 because the hero power and immediate effect was not good enough.
The only reason why tempo/aggro rogue is not a tier 1 deck with over 58% winrate is because of control warrior existing and yet the majority of the people are targeting the wrong class... is there a conspiracy going on here?
I have to emphasize the point above, because it seems most rogue lovers here don’t get the big picture and just jump in to cry about people crying for nerfs. Classes like token druid , khadgar mage, mech hunter , big shaman , control warrior all have several unfavorable matchups from DIFFERENT decks from DIFFERENT classes. Rogue on the other hand has a favorable matchup over >55% against every single class and deck type EXCEPT the three variants of CONTROL warrior. We are forced to queue into all these sleep elysiana warriors all because of rogue being OP. Get it? If you still don’t think that’s a problem, you are obviously biased to the point you don’t need to waste time here.
Rogue is fun, you say? As you all know fun is subjective, just because you think rogue is fun doesn’t mean that everyone think it’s fun and make it any less deserving on a nerf based on data. Just like a diehard group of people who think priests are fun, or sleep warrior are fun doesn’t make it any less a candidate. But all the data right now points towards rogue being oppressive and needing a merf.
Anyway let’s talk about the busted rogue class which is represented the most in the upcoming hct as a nobrainer inclusion because it’s busted according to all the pro players.
Let’s see a list of possible rogue nerfs to test the waters include:
Preparation> change it to 1 mana.
Backstab > zap has 1 mana overload so change it to 1 mana or deal 1 damage
Raiding party > change it to 4 mana.
Sap> it’s a better execute, polymorph, shield slam without conditions, change to 4 mana.
Extra passive to hero power> Rogue always goes first, so they never get the coin.
SI agent > change it to 4 mana
Myra’s unstable element> let’s make it 7 mana, why not?
Evil miscreant > change it to 4 mana.
EdWin van cleef> make it 4 mana.
4 mana taunt pirate> change it to 5 mana
What else am I missing?
I can see Preparation getting nerfed also EVIL miscreant is much much stronger than people initially thought he would be.
raiding party is also a problem card I can definitely see nerfed
There you have the answer why rogue should not have to be nerfed. As long as there are counterdecks there´s no reason to nerf imo.
BTW: I like playing rogue and I´m glad that rogue has finally a good deck again. There were times were rogue was just nothing. This time will come again, but hopefully not because of a silly not needed nerf.
Pretty sure Blizzard will nerf a number of cards once including rogue too (Most notably Raiding Party.)
I would say something that nobody will care but... I have stopped playing ranked because of Rogue too, so I wanted a break from ranked until I feel I want to play again.
EDIT: If there is any reason that there shouldn't be a nerf for Rogue, I'm fine with it, as long as there is a reasonable way to play against it, but for now... I just find it hard to deal with it, blame my bad skill I guess.
I like elementals and totems.
Lol , look at the data. You don’t think >55% winrate against 8/9 classes is a problem?
I doubt that they will touch rogue basic/classic cards tbh
My bet is on Waggle Pick.
Main problem right now is just the flawless curve of Raiding Party into Pick + both Dread Corsairs into Greenskin for even more damage.
They'll probably nerf it to 5-mana or reduce the attack by 1 (to prevent the Pirate spam)
Raiding Party is alsso a possibility, but I#m somewhat skeptical given that they didn't nerf it when Kingsbane was running amok. Maybe they'll go for Prep this time, by making it 1-mana but reduces by 4, meaning it's still just the same with spells of 4-mana above but worse with stuff like Eviscerate or Raiding Party (which also results in an indirect nerf to Edwin, which also not bad, since that card iss really bonkers atm)
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
By the way my friend, those are a lot of nerfs and it will eventually lead to Priest Tier. Are you sure you want to do that?
I'm glad you're not part of Blizzard team. They are incredibly bad, as well as SI:7 nerf, why that?
I like elementals and totems.
Oh boy, someone here is reeeeeeally hates rogue and wants them to have 10% winrate
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Is any class safe from people asking for nerfs? I don’t play rogue but it doesn’t need nerfing at least it’s actually fun to play against unlike fall to sleep warrior
These nerf everything people are out of their minds.
Deckhand and Leeroy seem the ones most likely to take a hit, since they have always been somewhat of a problem and staples in any reincarnation of aggro rogue or anything aggro related. Personally I don't think the deck is that good against stuff like control Mage and Warrior and they run out of steam quite fast if you can withstand the shenanigans with the weapon and 0 mana 3/3s. It is dreadfully dull to play against though and 99% of hearthstone content uploaded on youtube is someone playing against this awful deck, so as a whole it is bringing the game down by quite a bit as far as enjoyment goes
I just love rogue atm. It's the only reason I am playing HS atm because it's so versatile and leads to unexpected things because of the random effects.
But yes, the smorc deck is pretty busted right now. It has very few weaknesses and so many tools to dictate the game or come back from a disadvantage.
>55% winrate against all the classes except warrior.
> doesn’t need nerfing
Okay. People are forced to play sleep warrior because of coffee rogue
No it isn´t imo. Just play some techcards. Or play the deck yourself to lern the weeknesses. There will for sure come a counterdeck. It just needs some time.
It´s everytime the same. Nerf, please nerf, this deck is so op. And 2-3 weeks and 1-2 counterdecks later nobody recognize the deck anymore. And a winrate about 55% isn´t that much. Thats just normal, like it ever was with the best decks. We can speak about this again, when the deck has a Winrate about 65-70%.
Tbh, I always thought Raiding Party was insane. Tutored draw 3 for (3) is bonkers. A nerf to (4) could already be enough (and the card would still be very strong).
If they nerfed that, Preparation would stay inherently problematic, but once more in check.
The other cards currently in Tempo Rogue are also very powerful, but I have a harder time at envisioning a fair nerf for them (without ruining the cards), since they are not really bonkers, however strong.
The only card i could see getting a nerf is Preparation
That is the card, that offers big swing turns and tempo. No other class can deal with that atm.
All others (including Raiding Party) are fine, because you cant cheat them out anymore.
Always expect the unexpectable!
I'll just leave this here.
(Image below)
I wish when people post "evidence" for a claim, they would actually bother to read it first.
53% WinRate?
So OP, y'alll! (Look up Zoolock. I think you're going to spit your milk if 53% WR concerns you that much...)
< 35% against Control Warrior?!
There's your answer right there. Tell me again how good Rogue is? (Hint: It's not...)
Sigh... Rogue is fine. Nothing to see here. Moving on...
So why should we play any other classes other than rogue? They are all unfavoured :)
Nice meta that will be, and you are right, I am not even accounting the noob ass rogue players affecting the high winrate.
Just like with miracle priest, tthe only reason the winrate is this low is because of a lot of newer players bad at piloting it correctly.
You absolutely have no idea what a combo class is and how difficult it is most of time to trigger your combos right with the less mana you have, before your opponent runs you over and kills you, cause of no really good healing and less and normaly very expensive carddraw. Atm it is a little bit easier for rogue, that´s right. But I don´t really see any need to nerf.