Hearthpwn

Quote from Deck_Fiend >>

Quote from C_A_W >>

 

 and still none of them take any  counters to it? if something is as prevalent and omnipotent, then surely bringing a counter to it would be obvious.

at times I think these "pro's" made it on attrition alone. :D 

 It would seem to make sense for people to bring a single silence in at least one deck if "the biggest Edwin wins the world championship." Yet, unless I really missed something huge, there wasn't a single silence in any deck, with the sole exception of the Nomi Priest (which had Silence as much to cycle a card with auctioneer for 0 mana as to actually silence anything).

We dont need nerfs all the time, there is a perfectl balanced meta atm, sure warrior and rogue is strong but there are counter decks and no deck is over the top or have insane winrate, also we dont have alot of very polarized matchups and that is healthy. People need to learn how to counter and build decks and also identify how to win unfavored matchups. I surely hope blizzard dont listen to this site to much, because there are just so many dumb noobs who call nerfs for everything insted of trying to build their decks against it.

The winrates of tempo rogue are good but still pretty low for being a top-deck, not breaking 53% in legend.

It is fine if you don't like that slow warriors are the main counter, but they counter them well, and decks like token druid and control shaman have 50/50 matchups vs tempo rogue.

I honestly think the main problem in standard atm. is that there are so few anti-aggro tools, which makes it very easy for rogue burst to find the face. I don't think there should be nerfs, though. Rogue has a nice high skillcap and it leaves something to be desired for the next expansion.

Quote from SlydE >>

The winrates of tempo rogue are good but still pretty low for being a top-deck, not breaking 53% in legend.

It is fine if you don't like that slow warriors are the main counter, but they counter them well, and decks like token druid and control shaman have 50/50 matchups vs tempo rogue.

I honestly think the main problem in standard atm. is that there are so few anti-aggro tools, which makes it very easy for rogue burst to find the face. I don't think there should be nerfs, though. Rogue has a nice high skillcap and it leaves something to be desired for the next expansion.

The meta is heavily teched to beat rogue and yet it's above 50% that's  quite  insane actually. 

Quote from DoubleSummon >>

Quote from SlydE >>

The winrates of tempo rogue are good but still pretty low for being a top-deck, not breaking 53% in legend.

It is fine if you don't like that slow warriors are the main counter, but they counter them well, and decks like token druid and control shaman have 50/50 matchups vs tempo rogue.

I honestly think the main problem in standard atm. is that there are so few anti-aggro tools, which makes it very easy for rogue burst to find the face. I don't think there should be nerfs, though. Rogue has a nice high skillcap and it leaves something to be desired for the next expansion.

The meta is heavily teched to beat rogue and yet it's above 50% that's  quite  insane actually. 

 What are u on? thats not insane at all, decks with under 50% winrate are trash deck

while rogue is a good deck its matchups are not as polarizing as past meta matchups where there was actual no decisions that lead to the outcome of a game. if any 2 cards were to get popped. id say prep and raiding party are the biggest thing that enable a deck like this and prep does cause design issues moving forward. however in this meta of rogue/ mech hunter/ control warrior/ token druid/ hand mage, etc there are 2 cards that are problems as they persuade a similar play style to cards in the past like Jade Idol and Rexxar.

Mad Genius Dr Boom should be upped to 8 mana at least or kept at 7 and lose the rush mechanic though i feel that would kill the card.

Elysiana needs to be bumped to 10 mana just to prevent mirrors going to turn limit. 45 minute to a hr games that have no result really feel bad and while her effect doesnt go infinite like jade idol it does drag it enough to turn limit.

thats my take on Rogue and Warrior. and while Rogue is a good deck its not remotely close to the top 5 decks in meta across hearthstones history nor does it feel like such shit to play against because some games they just mulligan to air. 

Quote from user-16377173 >>

Quote from DoubleSummon >>

Quote from SlydE >>

The winrates of tempo rogue are good but still pretty low for being a top-deck, not breaking 53% in legend.

It is fine if you don't like that slow warriors are the main counter, but they counter them well, and decks like token druid and control shaman have 50/50 matchups vs tempo rogue.

I honestly think the main problem in standard atm. is that there are so few anti-aggro tools, which makes it very easy for rogue burst to find the face. I don't think there should be nerfs, though. Rogue has a nice high skillcap and it leaves something to be desired for the next expansion.

The meta is heavily teched to beat rogue and yet it's above 50% that's  quite  insane actually. 

 What are u on? thats not insane at all, decks with under 50% winrate are trash deck

 it's a winrate over a large sample size including a lot of bad players who lower the win rate, every deck im the meta runs weapon removal of some kind and people build decks with rogue in mind.. the win rate should go down drastically but it doesn't. druid was at 60%+ so was zoo but people started teching against it and it's much lower

Quote from TheScot >>

Quote from Deck_Fiend >>

Quote from C_A_W >>

 

 and still none of them take any  counters to it? if something is as prevalent and omnipotent, then surely bringing a counter to it would be obvious.

at times I think these "pro's" made it on attrition alone. :D 

 It would seem to make sense for people to bring a single silence in at least one deck if "the biggest Edwin wins the world championship." Yet, unless I really missed something huge, there wasn't a single silence in any deck, with the sole exception of the Nomi Priest (which had Silence as much to cycle a card with auctioneer for 0 mana as to actually silence anything).

 You did miss something. Control Shaman was brought by 4 players who made the top 8. All 4 of those players ran Earthshock and Hex.

Quote from DoubleSummon >>

Quote from user-16377173 >>

Quote from DoubleSummon >>

Quote from SlydE >>

The winrates of tempo rogue are good but still pretty low for being a top-deck, not breaking 53% in legend.

It is fine if you don't like that slow warriors are the main counter, but they counter them well, and decks like token druid and control shaman have 50/50 matchups vs tempo rogue.

I honestly think the main problem in standard atm. is that there are so few anti-aggro tools, which makes it very easy for rogue burst to find the face. I don't think there should be nerfs, though. Rogue has a nice high skillcap and it leaves something to be desired for the next expansion.

The meta is heavily teched to beat rogue and yet it's above 50% that's  quite  insane actually. 

 What are u on? thats not insane at all, decks with under 50% winrate are trash deck

 it's a winrate over a large sample size including a lot of bad players who lower the win rate, every deck im the meta runs weapon removal of some kind and people build decks with rogue in mind.. the win rate should go down drastically but it doesn't. druid was at 60%+ so was zoo but people started teching against it and it's much lower

 yeah but u cant really use that argument, we have to look at the common winrate in order to discuss if something is overpowered. All my decks are 55-70% winrate and i play all kinds of decks and classes, so with this logic alot of of card and decks should be nerfed.

Cmon guys standard is the freshest mode out there. How can it be stale only a month after an rotation and exp release. You baby’s never stfu?

OP, your nerf suggestions are terrible. You are basically asking an entire class to get Warsong-ed. You provide the data to support your argument making you looking rational but your nerfs suggestions just shows that you are just emotionally reacting to the cards. It is clear the nerfs you suggested are just out of pure spite to Rogues in general.

There is not a single sense of balance to them at all.

I appreciate you putting out the data but I highly disagree with your nerf suggestion cos they are just plain terrible and not rational at all. I'm glad someone like you are not into game design. If so, you will make terrible cards and no one will play them.

TS is obviously a rogue hater based on his nerf suggestions. As a rogue player with 4700 wins on Valeera I should say that main target for the nerfs is Evil Miscreant because its just too good and fits in any possible deck. It is so powerful that some fools considering nerfing shadowstep and this card was just dead in so many expansions. Also it has the highest "when played" winrates from all other cards. I think that slight nerf to miscreant plus one card (either pick or raiding party) is enough to make rogue reasonably weaker.

I ran the numbers and came to the conclusion that the ratio of people in here who claim rogue is fine, is exactly the same as the ratio of players who play rogue in ranked. 

Do i have proof? Oh boi, this might be news to you, but were in the post-fact-era now and one can claim whatever one wants and have people believing in it. 

Anyways. I trust in what the pros say (heck, some of them play this game for 8+ hours per day... )  and they dont seem to think rogue is fine at all. Yes it has one singular counter. Like Raza priest had in the Darkness....

 p.s. 

50% of you have failed at reading comprehension. OP gave a list of possible nerfs. He never stated that he wants all of them to be applied to the class he loaths... yet so many of you present their points as if he did do just that.

Well, according to the latest VS report, Lackey Rogue is around 25-30% of the meta, at any ranks.

Instead of the meta adjusting to it, it seems only few decks can contrast it, but without fixing the meta population.

Since this is going on for more than 2 weeks, i guess the meta is tyrannized by Lackey Rogue, with no way out of it.

This is toxic for Ranked, and completely unacceptable for Tournament, so i guess nerfs must be on their way.

I just hope they nerf the most recent cards, without crippling the core of the class...

From the new VS Report Data Reaper today:

Rogue’s popularity continues to steadily climb, though it’s important to note that at legend, Lackey Rogue seems to have reached saturation. Not even the most powerful decks we’ve seen in the history of the Data Reaper Report managed to eclipse 30% popularity at legend. That popularity is higher at top legend, but at least there are some signs that indicate “enough is enough.”

So yeah, Lackey Rogue (27.37% of decks at Legend) is now one of all-time most played decks for any meta. That rate only drops slightly for ranks 1-4 (23.79%). I'll give it one more week to see if something can show up to make that decline, otherwise, I think its time throw down the nerf hammer. One deck being nearly a third of all decks played is not good for the game.

In the link from the 1st post rogue is names Tier 2 deck.

And he askes it to be nerfed o.O

Correct me if I'm wrong, but historically, decks/cards were not nerfed based on popularity, but on sheer strength (and other factors, which popularity was not one of). 

Who is a rogue hater you say? Just because you are a rogue lover does not mean that rogue is not a problem. All the pro’s seem to echo the same sentiment as I DO as you can see in the latest ign interview.

I love rogue, I love tempo rogue, but rogue is clearly overpowered now.