For Barnes: 4 mana 3/4 battlecry: Summon a 3/4 copy of a minion that cost (5) or less. [or (4)]
I thought this to keep an acceptable level of value for a LEGENDARY card.. remember that Barnes is a Leg, so it must keep a value up for being one of. With this new battlecry, you'll put in board TWO 3/4 in one turn, letting you decide which minion to summon from a smallest pool (your deck anyway), and it's pretty different from the solution posted by dravenforever, which would result in Barnes summoning a 1/1 Wisp or a 1/1 Deathwing, which is empty of any value at all (Barnes would've be a Rare at max card imho this way).
What do you guys think about my "solution"?
4 mana for 6/8 stats hmm... *Thinking*
Remember that we're talking about turn 4-5, there are worse combos out there.. also if the priest is going to revive someone, it won't change that much, considering that most (5) cards aren't 8/8 with cocky effects!! The problem with Big priest isn't about stats, more like cancerous cards summoned such as Ragnaros, Obsidian statue, LK, Y'shaarj.
Your fix is still insanely overpowered. The only adjustment Barnes needs is a mana increase. That's it. These "actor" or random minion suggestions are getting worse by the day.
Yeah, dude, we don't want to nerf it to the ground, right? Making something literally unplayable it's never good. Nerfing Barnes to (6) will just toggle him off their decks and making it less performant against aggroes (which is already a hard matchup for big priests). They already have Shadow Essence, which summons a 5/5 copy of a minion from their decks, no need to use a card slot for a (6) 3/4 which summons a 1/1.. at turn 6.
Elysiana: Add 5 random Charge minions in your hand. They now have Rush instead
Haahha i know they will do smt like that when nerf a card
As a CW main I cant stand Elysiana either. But I have to include both Banker and her for mirror match in ladder. I also wish I can add 2 more anti aggro / token tech instead lol
I don't understand the Elysiana talk. The devs printed bomb warrior and her in the same set. It was done, presumably as a direct counter to Bombs and fatigue decks. I would imagine they would have thought about this.
She isn't the problem, she is a solution to the bomb warrior threat. The idea was that Bomb Warrior becomes too strong, we have a tech card released in the same set.
So can someone explain to me what issues she is causing that would put her in the same conversation as Barnes? Barnes being the most salt-inducing and high roll card in Wild?
as for elysiana battlecry : discover a card in your deck shuffle 2 extra copies into your deck repeat 5 times
When you nerf a card, you're supposed to make the card worse, not better against any deck except bomb warrior.
Not sure how you're supposed to nerf elysiana to be fair. Making her 10 mana would solve the brewmaster problem, and would make the game last slightly shorter, but you'll still see her in every control deck, and control shaman would still be able to play her battlecry twice because shudderwock. so I don't think it's a good solution.
If things come to worse, there's always the old blizzard solution " 8 mana 7/7 : The cards that didn't start in your deck have +1 attack." That way the the spirit of the card is completely preserved.... /jk/
Looking forward to those nerfs if they do happen anyway.
I don't understand the Elysiana talk. The devs printed bomb warrior and her in the same set. It was done, presumably as a direct counter to Bombs and fatigue decks. I would imagine they would have thought about this.
She isn't the problem, she is a solution to the bomb warrior threat. The idea was that Bomb Warrior becomes too strong, we have a tech card released in the same set.
So can someone explain to me what issues she is causing that would put her in the same conversation as Barnes? Barnes being the most salt-inducing and high roll card in Wild?
The problem is that you can Youthful Brewmaster/Baleful Banker her. It turns control mirrors into games that last over an hour and/or reach the turn limit. The average time it takes to run a tournament has increased by something like 4 or 5 hours. No one wants to play in a 20 hour tournament.
If you do something to her (presumably make her cost 10 mana), you can keep the cool spirit of the card and she's definitely still playable, but remove the toxic systematic problems she creates.
I don't understand the Elysiana talk. The devs printed bomb warrior and her in the same set. It was done, presumably as a direct counter to Bombs and fatigue decks. I would imagine they would have thought about this.
She isn't the problem, she is a solution to the bomb warrior threat. The idea was that Bomb Warrior becomes too strong, we have a tech card released in the same set.
So can someone explain to me what issues she is causing that would put her in the same conversation as Barnes? Barnes being the most salt-inducing and high roll card in Wild?
The problem is that you can Youthful Brewmaster/Baleful Banker her. It turns control mirrors into games that last over an hour and/or reach the turn limit. The average time it takes to run a tournament has increased by something like 4 or 5 hours. No one wants to play in a 20 hour tournament.
If you do something to her (presumably make her cost 10 mana), you can keep the cool spirit of the card and she's definitely still playable, but remove the toxic systematic problems she creates.
Why punish non tournament players?
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I don't understand the Elysiana talk. The devs printed bomb warrior and her in the same set. It was done, presumably as a direct counter to Bombs and fatigue decks. I would imagine they would have thought about this.
She isn't the problem, she is a solution to the bomb warrior threat. The idea was that Bomb Warrior becomes too strong, we have a tech card released in the same set.
So can someone explain to me what issues she is causing that would put her in the same conversation as Barnes? Barnes being the most salt-inducing and high roll card in Wild?
The problem is that you can Youthful Brewmaster/Baleful Banker her. It turns control mirrors into games that last over an hour and/or reach the turn limit. The average time it takes to run a tournament has increased by something like 4 or 5 hours. No one wants to play in a 20 hour tournament.
If you do something to her (presumably make her cost 10 mana), you can keep the cool spirit of the card and she's definitely still playable, but remove the toxic systematic problems she creates.
Why punish non tournament players?
You could ban her in tournaments as tournament organizers. I mean, isn't that a more elegant and simple solution than utterly changing a card that was designed to be a counter to an already strong deck in the format?
I understand the long games and tournament issues, but that sounds like a tournament organizer problem, not Blizzard's.
I don't understand the Elysiana talk. The devs printed bomb warrior and her in the same set. It was done, presumably as a direct counter to Bombs and fatigue decks. I would imagine they would have thought about this.
She isn't the problem, she is a solution to the bomb warrior threat. The idea was that Bomb Warrior becomes too strong, we have a tech card released in the same set.
So can someone explain to me what issues she is causing that would put her in the same conversation as Barnes? Barnes being the most salt-inducing and high roll card in Wild?
The problem is that you can Youthful Brewmaster/Baleful Banker her. It turns control mirrors into games that last over an hour and/or reach the turn limit. The average time it takes to run a tournament has increased by something like 4 or 5 hours. No one wants to play in a 20 hour tournament.
If you do something to her (presumably make her cost 10 mana), you can keep the cool spirit of the card and she's definitely still playable, but remove the toxic systematic problems she creates.
Why punish non tournament players?
they only punish masochists actually.
Also, yeah, why would they ever consider the implications for people who actually make a living of this game, better make sure all those casuals get to do whatever they want, especially the free2play ones.
You could ban her in tournaments as tournament organizers. I mean, isn't that a more elegant and simple solution than utterly changing a card that was designed to be a counter to an already strong deck in the format?
I understand the long games and tournament issues, but that sounds like a tournament organizer problem, not Blizzard's.
Suggesting that there's some meaningful difference between Blizzard and the TO's who are running Blizzard's tournaments is silly,
well, Barnes isn't even the biggest problem in big preist now....
False. Completely false. The only reason that they can rez so many 8+ mana minions is because Barnes makes a copy of it and they keep rezzing. How da fuck else does Priest get anything on board by turn 8.
shadow essence genius
Yeah sure, but a 6 mana above average 5/5 is nothing to sweat about, considering you have 6 turns to develop.
Quote from Chueven>> Yeah, dude, we don't want to nerf it to the ground, right? Making something literally unplayable it's never good. Nerfing Barnes to (6) will just toggle him off their decks and making it less performant against aggroes (which is already a hard matchup for big priests). They already have Shadow Essence, which summons a 5/5 copy of a minion from their decks, no need to use a card slot for a (6) 3/4 which summons a 1/1.. at turn 6.
Got it now?
It's not nerfed to the ground. Still playable. The stats can be adjusted too as a 5/5 for example. It just stops the problem of it dropping loads of big revivable minions very early on. Res preists already beat control decks, so it's natural that Aggro decks should punish them.
Your proposal is 4 mana for 6/8 stats over 2 bodies, one of each can come with a strong deathrattle. Any decent player can see that's insane.
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Kingsbane laughs in the corner. This problematic card was, is, and will always be a pain in the ass. Instead of a slow deck, it could fit in a fast ,stable deck, even with the nerf of Leeching Poison won't make much of a deal. I don't think that support card make Kingsbane strong, even with few buff in aggro deck would make much of a thing in every meta.
Elysianna, yeah, it is the same as Kingsbane, discover 5 cards which could have you stall for 10 turns or so. Barnes also. Dropping it on 4 win you the game for like 90%. The problems with those cards are we lack of counter play, counter-tactic. What are the punishments by putting those cards in? Absolutely 0. Even I prefer a rock-paper-scissor meta, which I try to win counter play, rather than those dominant cards which dominate the meta.
"We don't want tournaments to run super long, so we're nerfing a card played by a lot of non tournment players."
See how that's an unreasonable solution?
So what you're saying is we should never nerf a card that is problematic for competitive players just because other players (not even the majority of players) don't want any change whatsoever? It's not like making her 10 mana will make her any less fun
"We don't want tournaments to run super long, so we're nerfing a card played by a lot of non tournment players."
See how that's an unreasonable solution?
actually it's "we're nerfing a card that causes extremely long and drawn out faftigue matches just by virtue of existing which isn't what we want to happen in the game and is particularly frustrating in tournaments"
They'll probably just nerf it to 9 or 10 mana and up the stats a bit (or slap taunt on there) to make sure there are no Banker or Brewmaster Shenanigans anymore. In the end there'Ll still be Shaman who can use it with Shudderwock
And no, the problem is not the length of the game itself but the fact that pretty much every single control deck HAS to run her to have a chance at the mirrror because not taking fatigue for 10-20 turns is pretty relevant as it turns out.
But hey, keep thinking that there'S somehow a majority of players who actually enjoy constantly having to play 50 minute games dictated by complete RNG. Elysiana will still be playable and useable if they end up nerfing her. It's not like it's the first time tournament play has urged a nerf (see Yogg)
"We don't want tournaments to run super long, so we're nerfing a card played by a lot of non tournment players."
See how that's an unreasonable solution?
So what you're saying is we should never nerf a card that is problematic for competitive players just because other players (not even the majority of players) don't want any change whatsoever? It's not like making her 10 mana will make her any less fun
Aren't you the unreasonable one?
I'll let you fill in the blanks. Write whatever you want.
Yeah, dude, we don't want to nerf it to the ground, right? Making something literally unplayable it's never good. Nerfing Barnes to (6) will just toggle him off their decks and making it less performant against aggroes (which is already a hard matchup for big priests). They already have Shadow Essence, which summons a 5/5 copy of a minion from their decks, no need to use a card slot for a (6) 3/4 which summons a 1/1.. at turn 6.
Got it now?
Elysiana: Add 5 random Charge minions in your hand. They now have Rush instead
Haahha i know they will do smt like that when nerf a card
As a CW main I cant stand Elysiana either. But I have to include both Banker and her for mirror match in ladder. I also wish I can add 2 more anti aggro / token tech instead lol
I don't understand the Elysiana talk. The devs printed bomb warrior and her in the same set. It was done, presumably as a direct counter to Bombs and fatigue decks. I would imagine they would have thought about this.
She isn't the problem, she is a solution to the bomb warrior threat. The idea was that Bomb Warrior becomes too strong, we have a tech card released in the same set.
So can someone explain to me what issues she is causing that would put her in the same conversation as Barnes? Barnes being the most salt-inducing and high roll card in Wild?
When you nerf a card, you're supposed to make the card worse, not better against any deck except bomb warrior.
Not sure how you're supposed to nerf elysiana to be fair. Making her 10 mana would solve the brewmaster problem, and would make the game last slightly shorter, but you'll still see her in every control deck, and control shaman would still be able to play her battlecry twice because shudderwock. so I don't think it's a good solution.
If things come to worse, there's always the old blizzard solution " 8 mana 7/7 : The cards that didn't start in your deck have +1 attack." That way the the spirit of the card is completely preserved.... /jk/
Looking forward to those nerfs if they do happen anyway.
Make Elysiana 10 mana add 5 cards. Same effect, much less ridiculous.
The problem is that you can Youthful Brewmaster/Baleful Banker her. It turns control mirrors into games that last over an hour and/or reach the turn limit. The average time it takes to run a tournament has increased by something like 4 or 5 hours. No one wants to play in a 20 hour tournament.
If you do something to her (presumably make her cost 10 mana), you can keep the cool spirit of the card and she's definitely still playable, but remove the toxic systematic problems she creates.
Why punish non tournament players?
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It's not a "punishment."
You could ban her in tournaments as tournament organizers. I mean, isn't that a more elegant and simple solution than utterly changing a card that was designed to be a counter to an already strong deck in the format?
I understand the long games and tournament issues, but that sounds like a tournament organizer problem, not Blizzard's.
they only punish masochists actually.
Also, yeah, why would they ever consider the implications for people who actually make a living of this game, better make sure all those casuals get to do whatever they want, especially the free2play ones.
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
Suggesting that there's some meaningful difference between Blizzard and the TO's who are running Blizzard's tournaments is silly,
Yeah sure, but a 6 mana above average 5/5 is nothing to sweat about, considering you have 6 turns to develop.
It's not nerfed to the ground. Still playable. The stats can be adjusted too as a 5/5 for example. It just stops the problem of it dropping loads of big revivable minions very early on. Res preists already beat control decks, so it's natural that Aggro decks should punish them.
Your proposal is 4 mana for 6/8 stats over 2 bodies, one of each can come with a strong deathrattle. Any decent player can see that's insane.
Here to punish the bad posts, so you don't have to.
"We don't want tournaments to run super long, so we're nerfing a card played by a lot of non tournment players."
See how that's an unreasonable solution?
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I hope they nerf Archivist Elysiana. I crafted it golden and i need more dust :p
No. Because it isn't an unreasonable solution.
Kingsbane laughs in the corner. This problematic card was, is, and will always be a pain in the ass. Instead of a slow deck, it could fit in a fast ,stable deck, even with the nerf of Leeching Poison won't make much of a deal. I don't think that support card make Kingsbane strong, even with few buff in aggro deck would make much of a thing in every meta.
Elysianna, yeah, it is the same as Kingsbane, discover 5 cards which could have you stall for 10 turns or so. Barnes also. Dropping it on 4 win you the game for like 90%. The problems with those cards are we lack of counter play, counter-tactic. What are the punishments by putting those cards in? Absolutely 0. Even I prefer a rock-paper-scissor meta, which I try to win counter play, rather than those dominant cards which dominate the meta.
So what you're saying is we should never nerf a card that is problematic for competitive players just because other players (not even the majority of players) don't want any change whatsoever? It's not like making her 10 mana will make her any less fun
Aren't you the unreasonable one?
actually it's "we're nerfing a card that causes extremely long and drawn out faftigue matches just by virtue of existing which isn't what we want to happen in the game and is particularly frustrating in tournaments"
They'll probably just nerf it to 9 or 10 mana and up the stats a bit (or slap taunt on there) to make sure there are no Banker or Brewmaster Shenanigans anymore. In the end there'Ll still be Shaman who can use it with Shudderwock
And no, the problem is not the length of the game itself but the fact that pretty much every single control deck HAS to run her to have a chance at the mirrror because not taking fatigue for 10-20 turns is pretty relevant as it turns out.
But hey, keep thinking that there'S somehow a majority of players who actually enjoy constantly having to play 50 minute games dictated by complete RNG. Elysiana will still be playable and useable if they end up nerfing her. It's not like it's the first time tournament play has urged a nerf (see Yogg)
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
I'll let you fill in the blanks. Write whatever you want.
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