Hearthpwn

Fuck blizzard and their stupid decisions.

hum...no fix for Dr. Morrigan?? nor Madam Goya

I thought I read somewhere that the reasoning for Witch's Brew was because new players wouldn't be familiar with the keyword. But it's backwards logic because there are still plenty of Echo cards in standard and a new player would look at the inconsistency and just get more confused. All these changes presented for these cards are accurate and should be implemented.

Quote from Supuhfuzz >>

I thought I read somewhere that the reasoning for Witch's Brew was because new players wouldn't be familiar with the keyword. But it's backwards logic because there are still plenty of Echo cards in standard and a new player would look at the inconsistency and just get more confused. All these changes presented for these cards are accurate and should be implemented.

 Just because Blizzard are 'inconsistent', that doesn't mean the best approach is paint every card with the same brush.  Y'all need to learn what aesthetics are, and their importance in game design.  Echo is intrinsically tied to Witchwood, recruit is intrinsically tied to Kolobds/Catacombs; they don't need to address anything with honesty because they are the ones creating the aesthetic feel of the game. 

The playerbase has a HORRIBLE idea of what good aesthetics are, you need professionals making those decisions or you get what OP has suggested: a waste of their time and resources...and before you say what resouces does it take to make these changes, if they were easy would not the discussion be more open on their end?

It's cool to circlejerk and gets internet points, but all of them are mechanically different from their original text. Moreover, I think Blizzard made right decision by not making every random keyword evergreen. 

Now I think about it.. Icehowl deserves a buff really... but it just seems we got a better version anyway..

Just check these two card:

Each turn on Gruul (or Micro Machine, for example) means each turn, both your turn and your opponents turn.

Each turn on scheme cards mean your turn only.

Second card is

Quote from Screwjank >>

Quote from Dendroid >>

Quote from Supuhfuzz >>

I thought I read somewhere that the reasoning for Witch's Brew was because new players wouldn't be familiar with the keyword. But it's backwards logic because there are still plenty of Echo cards in standard and a new player would look at the inconsistency and just get more confused. All these changes presented for these cards are accurate and should be implemented.

 Just because Blizzard are 'inconsistent', that doesn't mean the best approach is paint every card with the same brush.  Y'all need to learn what aesthetics are, and their importance in game design.  Echo is intrinsically tied to Witchwood, recruit is intrinsically tied to Kolobds/Catacombs; they don't need to address anything with honesty because they are the ones creating the aesthetic feel of the game. 

The playerbase has a HORRIBLE idea of what good aesthetics are, you need professionals making those decisions or you get what OP has suggested: a waste of their time and resources...and before you say what resouces does it take to make these changes, if they were easy would not the discussion be more open on their end?

 Fair enough, but I at least think that Witch's Brew would've been more than acceptable given it is a Shaman card with Hagatha, from Witchwood, being Shaman's mascot for Rise of Shadows

 I thought about it, I think your specific example still shouldn't be Echo, because my understanding is Echo reconstitutes the creature or effect, while it seems mechanically Witch's Brew is repeatable because each cast you get a spoonful of the brew, however you want to put it.  Echo would mean you'd recreate the whole thing, cauldron included.  I'm sure this discussion was had at Blizzard about this very card, since as you put before these decisions aren't made by accident.

I don't think you understand the concept of "strictly better", but, nice work otherwise

Quote from Dendroid >>

Quote from Supuhfuzz >>

I thought I read somewhere that the reasoning for Witch's Brew was because new players wouldn't be familiar with the keyword. But it's backwards logic because there are still plenty of Echo cards in standard and a new player would look at the inconsistency and just get more confused. All these changes presented for these cards are accurate and should be implemented.

 Just because Blizzard are 'inconsistent', that doesn't mean the best approach is paint every card with the same brush.  Y'all need to learn what aesthetics are, and their importance in game design.  Echo is intrinsically tied to Witchwood, recruit is intrinsically tied to Kolobds/Catacombs; they don't need to address anything with honesty because they are the ones creating the aesthetic feel of the game. 

The playerbase has a HORRIBLE idea of what good aesthetics are, you need professionals making those decisions or you get what OP has suggested: a waste of their time and resources...and before you say what resouces does it take to make these changes, if they were easy would not the discussion be more open on their end?

 What is good aesthethic about echo being tied to Witchwood if the mechanic behind echo isn't tied to Witchwood? What is bad aesthethic about Witch's Brew having echo? 

How can you tell these professionals made a good decision when the entire playbase is unhappy and confused about it?

You say the OP wasted time, I'm pretty sure it costed more time and ressource to make this retarded decision "let's tie this keyword to this expansion, never use it again, but make more cards in the future with this exact keyword mechanically, but with normal text, AESTHETHICS DUDE, we're professional who cares what the player base think" lol.

Not to mention Witch's Brew is tied visually to Witchwood, but it can't be tied mechanically to Witchwood... Yeah makes total professional sense. 

Quote from GentilleMouche >>

Quote from Dendroid >>

Quote from Supuhfuzz >>

I thought I read somewhere that the reasoning for Witch's Brew was because new players wouldn't be familiar with the keyword. But it's backwards logic because there are still plenty of Echo cards in standard and a new player would look at the inconsistency and just get more confused. All these changes presented for these cards are accurate and should be implemented.

 Just because Blizzard are 'inconsistent', that doesn't mean the best approach is paint every card with the same brush.  Y'all need to learn what aesthetics are, and their importance in game design.  Echo is intrinsically tied to Witchwood, recruit is intrinsically tied to Kolobds/Catacombs; they don't need to address anything with honesty because they are the ones creating the aesthetic feel of the game. 

The playerbase has a HORRIBLE idea of what good aesthetics are, you need professionals making those decisions or you get what OP has suggested: a waste of their time and resources...and before you say what resouces does it take to make these changes, if they were easy would not the discussion be more open on their end?

 What is good aesthethic about echo being tied to Witchwood if the mechanic behind echo isn't tied to Witchwood? What is bad aesthethic about Witch's Brew having echo? 

How can you tell these professionals made a good decision when the entire playbase is unhappy and confused about it?

You say the OP wasted time, I'm pretty sure it costed more time and ressource to make this ******** decision "let's tie this keyword to this expansion, never use it again, but make more cards in the future with this exact keyword mechanically, but with normal text, AESTHETHICS DUDE, we're professional who cares what the player base think" lol.

Not to mention Witch's Brew is tied visually to Witchwood, but it can't be tied mechanically to Witchwood... Yeah makes total professional sense. 

 so true. 

Quote from Dendroid >>

Quote from Screwjank >>

Quote from Dendroid >>

Quote from Supuhfuzz >>

I thought I read somewhere that the reasoning for Witch's Brew was because new players wouldn't be familiar with the keyword. But it's backwards logic because there are still plenty of Echo cards in standard and a new player would look at the inconsistency and just get more confused. All these changes presented for these cards are accurate and should be implemented.

 Just because Blizzard are 'inconsistent', that doesn't mean the best approach is paint every card with the same brush.  Y'all need to learn what aesthetics are, and their importance in game design.  Echo is intrinsically tied to Witchwood, recruit is intrinsically tied to Kolobds/Catacombs; they don't need to address anything with honesty because they are the ones creating the aesthetic feel of the game. 

The playerbase has a HORRIBLE idea of what good aesthetics are, you need professionals making those decisions or you get what OP has suggested: a waste of their time and resources...and before you say what resouces does it take to make these changes, if they were easy would not the discussion be more open on their end?

 Fair enough, but I at least think that Witch's Brew would've been more than acceptable given it is a Shaman card with Hagatha, from Witchwood, being Shaman's mascot for Rise of Shadows

 I thought about it, I think your specific example still shouldn't be Echo, because my understanding is Echo reconstitutes the creature or effect, while it seems mechanically Witch's Brew is repeatable because each cast you get a spoonful of the brew, however you want to put it.  Echo would mean you'd recreate the whole thing, cauldron included.  I'm sure this discussion was had at Blizzard about this very card, since as you put before these decisions aren't made by accident.

 Oh okay, didn't see this reply. This is what you mean by "aesthethic". It's worse than I thought. You're crazy man. You're saying this is worth confusing and frustrating your playerbase and diluting text consistency, so some weird person like you can tell himself "I'm taking a spoon instead of full cauldron because this doesn't have the word echo in the text, woah the aesthethics in this game are amazing" ? 

I'm sorry you say the players have horrible idea of aesthethics but your idea of it is genuinely out of this world.

I regret starting this discussion, please don't reply to me, mister professional. 

Nothing is too confused about it, Blizzard did right choice.

and if anyone are, I feel sorry for them.

I understand the need for theme over rules, but keywords exist to simplify and convey an idea quickly.  But the issue comes up in other card games as well.  For example, MTG (Arena or otherwise) will put Trample on all of their cards rather than spell out Trample each and every time.

Trample is an Evergreen keyword in MTG.  Prowess however is not.  Prowess has been done time and again, but without the keyword.  WOTC also claims similar things that theme is more important than keywords.

Now I don't actually agree with this.  I think the idea of the keyword is to convey ideas quickly and it gives your game consistency.  But putting keywords from the past and reusing them means you might have to balance cards you never intended to affect.

For example, Echo is a very narrow keyword on very few cards.  If they started to put Echo on all the echo like cards then perhaps some of the older cards that cared about 'Echo' would be broken or have to be re-balanced.

Now I think in the case of Echo, that is quite silly.  I also think Rush is now considered an eternal keyword in Hearthstone and all cards should be fixed to reflect this.

There are 13 cards with Echo in the text.  2 of the cards refer to Echo and are not actual Echo cards.  1 of these cards gives all your minions echo, so that doesnt count.    The ONLY card that cares about Echo is Mistwraith.  All of the cards are currently in Standard.  It's fine to give Witch's Brew and other cards Echo.

Why?  For Theme AND Consistency as well as it will not break the game.  There is no rebalancing needed.  There are no broken combos going to emerge.

So 11 cards with Echo.  Only 1 that cares about you playing Echo cards.  Can someone tell me who is going to be confused by this keyword?

If you are one of the new players confused by Echo, are you MORE confused why Witch's Brew doesn't have it or why all the other cards DO have it?  I mean which is it?