This is absolutely baffling. I have played every day since release and I have never, I repeat, NEVER lost a game due to Archivist Elysiana. How the hell do people lose to this thing?! If it gets to fatigue and she is played, you already lost - not because of her, but because you didn't solve the problem sooner. The calls for nerf of this card (which I couldn't care either way really, since she's not exactly a must-have card) are so utterly bonkers, it's hilarious.
Its not cuz of power level of this card but cuz what she do in specialist.
Now you can feel dumb.
Thanks.
Why not learn to English? Then you can stop feeling dumb....
This is absolutely baffling. I have played every day since release and I have never, I repeat, NEVER lost a game due to Archivist Elysiana. How the hell do people lose to this thing?! If it gets to fatigue and she is played, you already lost - not because of her, but because you didn't solve the problem sooner. The calls for nerf of this card (which I couldn't care either way really, since she's not exactly a must-have card) are so utterly bonkers, it's hilarious.
Its not cuz of power level of this card but cuz what she do in specialist.
Now you can feel dumb.
Thanks.
Why not learn to English? Then you can stop feeling dumb....
his point was that Elysiana will get nerfed because of the competitive format in which she causes any Control mirror to go on forever, which is something Blizzard has stated they'll keep an eye on.
So yes, Elysiana is probably the most likely to get the nerf bat (even if just in such a way as to prevent repeated bouncing)
his point was that Elysiana will get nerfed because of the competitive format in which she causes any Control mirror to go on forever, which is something Blizzard has stated they'll keep an eye on.
So yes, Elysiana is probably the most likely to get the nerf bat (even if just in such a way as to prevent repeated bouncing)
Which (when you consider it) is the most bizarre and pointless thing. Getting upset because a match goes on slightly longer than you want? And that somehow requires a nerf? Hence my original statement: it's baffling. There are so many more important issues with Hearthstone than worrying about a game taking a few more minutes than usual. And the card itself (as stated) is hardly powerful either - so the very consideration of nerfing it is such a waste of design focus right now.
This all really smacks of being more likely that Blizzard don't want longer games at tournaments, which is such a bad reason to screw with the mechanics.
I agree with this (though it's hero cards, not DKs). The problem is that Dr Boom (and Hagatha, but less so) are just INCREDIBLY powerful considering no other class has these kinds of late game value monsters. Not only is Dr Boom's hero power (potentially) INSANE -- there is absolutely no way to play against 5 or 6 Omega Devastators (with rush) in one game -- but Omega Assembly also drawing Zilliax and Omega Devastators. And now so many great mechs and megnatic... it's just all too much. If other classes had late game value generators (Valeera, Rexxar, Jaina) then the meta wouldn't feel so lopsided.
his point was that Elysiana will get nerfed because of the competitive format in which she causes any Control mirror to go on forever, which is something Blizzard has stated they'll keep an eye on.
So yes, Elysiana is probably the most likely to get the nerf bat (even if just in such a way as to prevent repeated bouncing)
Which (when you consider it) is the most bizarre and pointless thing. Getting upset because a match goes on slightly longer than you want? And that somehow requires a nerf? Hence my original statement: it's baffling. There are so many more important issues with Hearthstone than worrying about a game taking a few more minutes than usual. And the card itself (as stated) is hardly powerful either - so the very consideration of nerfing it is such a waste of design focus right now.
This all really smacks of being more likely that Blizzard don't want longer games at tournaments, which is such a bad reason to screw with the mechanics.
it's not baffling it'S common sense. Just like Yogg Saron was nerfed mainly because it turned all tournament games into RNG clow fiestas, Elysiana does effectively the same by forcing control decks to pretty much go into a 50 card match and hope that they have better RNG than their opponents.
the nerf that will most likely happen is probably going to up her cost to 9 or 10 mana so not every class has access to a bounce with Brewmaster. It's not just about casual, it's mainly about the new specialist format where this matchup would happen constantly, which is unacceptable for both the players and the viewers.
They won't destroy the card, I'll bet they might even up her stats as compensation (maybe even add taunt or something), but they definitely won't let her remain in a position were every class can get 20 extra cards (they'll leave that to Shaman, which would at least give the class an inherent advantage in the ctrl Warrior matchup, adding to diversity on ladder since Warrior won't be the strictly best control deck around)
Ok, whatever you say. Bottom line is that the card is pretty situational at best and certainly not in need of a any sort of nerf. Agree to disagree otherwise...
Ok, whatever you say. Bottom line is that the card is pretty situational at best and certainly not in need of a any sort of nerf. Agree to disagree otherwise...
you really seem to misunderstand. I'm not telling you why I think the card needs a nerf, I'm telling you why Blizzard themselves have stated they are keeping an eye on it (Blizzard-speak for: "we're gonna have to hit this eventually") because you seem to not understand where they are coming from.
I agree with this (though it's hero cards, not DKs). The problem is that Dr Boom (and Hagatha, but less so) are just INCREDIBLY powerful considering no other class has these kinds of late game value monsters. Not only is Dr Boom's hero power (potentially) INSANE -- there is absolutely no way to play against 5 or 6 Omega Devastators (with rush) in one game -- but Omega Assembly also drawing Zilliax and Omega Devastators. And now so many great mechs and megnatic... it's just all too much. If other classes had late game value generators (Valeera, Rexxar, Jaina) then the meta wouldn't feel so lopsided.
You either be aggro/tempo or play warrior.
I have to agree with this. I don't understand why some classes have gotten another hero card and the others haven't. Zul'jin is also a very powerful game turning card, just like Boom.
About warrior, the problem in my humble opinion is that he is stacking way too much board control in addition to the mech synergy. To make it more obvious how control mech warrior has become overpowered compared to other control archetypes, I like to compare warrior's control options with mage's ones, that is:
Dyn-o-matic is a Cinderstorm that can precisely focus minions, destroying solo big minions as well as multiple small minions, with a 3/4 mech body that can be re-used with magnetic
Omega Devastator is a minion-focused Pyroblast for 4 with a 4/5 mech body that can be re-used with magnetic
Omega Assembly is a better Astral Rift for 1 that gives you 3 mechs, and very likely Dyn-o-matic, Omega Devastator, or even a second Zilliax
Warpath is an incredibly flexible card that can be used either as Arcane Explosion, or as a 4 mana Blizzard without frost, or as an 8 mana Flamestrike. It also damages your own minions and can be used to proc "on-hit" effects to draw cards, gain armor, summon 2/3 taunts, etc.
Dr Boom can deal Frostbolt damage with hero power, or summon 3 1/1 rush mechs, or gain armor almost equal to Ice barrier (7 vs 8, but 2 mana and doesn't cost a card spot in the deck) or act as another Arcane Explosion. Also discovers rush mechs and again, can get you Dyn-o-matic or Omega Devastator.
These are the examples that come to my head, but as you can see, the tools warrior got lately have made him an incredibly powerful control class compared to other classes that can or could once play control decks. And I don't think any class is supposed to have such a great package stacking mechanics, no matter if they're control, aggro, or mid.
This is absolutely baffling. I have played every day since release and I have never, I repeat, NEVER lost a game due to Archivist Elysiana. How the hell do people lose to this thing?! If it gets to fatigue and she is played, you already lost - not because of her, but because you didn't solve the problem sooner. The calls for nerf of this card (which I couldn't care either way really, since she's not exactly a must-have card) are so utterly bonkers, it's hilarious.
Its not cuz of power level of this card but cuz what she do in specialist.
Now you can feel dumb.
Thanks.
Why not learn to English? Then you can stop feeling dumb....
Jeez you have some really good arguments here man.
This is absolutely baffling. I have played every day since release and I have never, I repeat, NEVER lost a game due to Archivist Elysiana. How the hell do people lose to this thing?! If it gets to fatigue and she is played, you already lost - not because of her, but because you didn't solve the problem sooner. The calls for nerf of this card (which I couldn't care either way really, since she's not exactly a must-have card) are so utterly bonkers, it's hilarious.
Its not cuz of power level of this card but cuz what she do in specialist.
Now you can feel dumb.
Thanks.
Why not just ban it in this format?
Now you can feel dumb.
Thanks.
Do we talk about nerfs or bans? Hmmm
and Blizzard never ban card so we cant really talk about it.
Mate, this is getting annoying, so tell this to your friends if you do have any, or find another salt thread, cuz we aren't intrested in cries against tier3 decks.
Aaand actually you can change your deck for one that counters it.
I agree with this (though it's hero cards, not DKs). The problem is that Dr Boom (and Hagatha, but less so) are just INCREDIBLY powerful considering no other class has these kinds of late game value monsters. Not only is Dr Boom's hero power (potentially) INSANE -- there is absolutely no way to play against 5 or 6 Omega Devastators (with rush) in one game -- but Omega Assembly also drawing Zilliax and Omega Devastators. And now so many great mechs and megnatic... it's just all too much. If other classes had late game value generators (Valeera, Rexxar, Jaina) then the meta wouldn't feel so lopsided.
You either be aggro/tempo or play warrior.
I have to agree with this. I don't understand why some classes have gotten another hero card and the others haven't. Zul'jin is also a very powerful game turning card, just like Boom.
About warrior, the problem in my humble opinion is that he is stacking way too much board control in addition to the mech synergy. To make it more obvious how control mech warrior has become overpowered compared to other control archetypes, I like to compare warrior's control options with mage's ones, that is:
Dyn-o-matic is a Cinderstorm that can precisely focus minions, destroying solo big minions as well as multiple small minions, with a 3/4 mech body that can be re-used with magnetic
Omega Devastator is a minion-focused Pyroblast for 4 with a 4/5 mech body that can be re-used with magnetic
Omega Assembly is a better Astral Rift for 1 that gives you 3 mechs, and very likely Dyn-o-matic, Omega Devastator, or even a second Zilliax
Warpath is an incredibly flexible card that can be used either as Arcane Explosion, or as a 4 mana Blizzard without frost, or as an 8 mana Flamestrike. It also damages your own minions and can be used to proc "on-hit" effects to draw cards, gain armor, summon 2/3 taunts, etc.
Dr Boom can deal Frostbolt damage with hero power, or summon 3 1/1 rush mechs, or gain armor almost equal to Ice barrier (7 vs 8, but 2 mana and doesn't cost a card spot in the deck) or act as another Arcane Explosion. Also discovers rush mechs and again, can get you Dyn-o-matic or Omega Devastator.
These are the examples that come to my head, but as you can see, the tools warrior got lately have made him an incredibly powerful control class compared to other classes that can or could once play control decks. And I don't think any class is supposed to have such a great package stacking mechanics, no matter if they're control, aggro, or mid.
I realize you were going for Mage cards, but I don't think these comparisons are very fair.
Cinderstorm was mainly run in Aggro/Tempo mage and often used for face damage. Dyn-no-matic is countered by mech decks, and can cause awkward plays if the Warrior deck isn't running all mechs.
Meteor was like a minion focused Pyroblast that did 5 extra damage to the target along with 3 cleave damage. A better comparison would be Flame Lance and even that would be a fair enough point.
Astral Rift is a bad card, so this comparison is pointless.
Arcane Explosion is considered a below average card. A Blizzard without freeze is called Consecration and even then Warpath hits your own minions. Hellfire is also 4 mana. Defile which I'll admit was super strong and not the best comparison is 2.
I agree with this (though it's hero cards, not DKs). The problem is that Dr Boom (and Hagatha, but less so) are just INCREDIBLY powerful considering no other class has these kinds of late game value monsters. Not only is Dr Boom's hero power (potentially) INSANE -- there is absolutely no way to play against 5 or 6 Omega Devastators (with rush) in one game -- but Omega Assembly also drawing Zilliax and Omega Devastators. And now so many great mechs and megnatic... it's just all too much. If other classes had late game value generators (Valeera, Rexxar, Jaina) then the meta wouldn't feel so lopsided.
You either be aggro/tempo or play warrior.
I have to agree with this. I don't understand why some classes have gotten another hero card and the others haven't. Zul'jin is also a very powerful game turning card, just like Boom.
About warrior, the problem in my humble opinion is that he is stacking way too much board control in addition to the mech synergy. To make it more obvious how control mech warrior has become overpowered compared to other control archetypes, I like to compare warrior's control options with mage's ones, that is:
Dyn-o-matic is a Cinderstorm that can precisely focus minions, destroying solo big minions as well as multiple small minions, with a 3/4 mech body that can be re-used with magnetic
Omega Devastator is a minion-focused Pyroblast for 4 with a 4/5 mech body that can be re-used with magnetic
Omega Assembly is a better Astral Rift for 1 that gives you 3 mechs, and very likely Dyn-o-matic, Omega Devastator, or even a second Zilliax
Warpath is an incredibly flexible card that can be used either as Arcane Explosion, or as a 4 mana Blizzard without frost, or as an 8 mana Flamestrike. It also damages your own minions and can be used to proc "on-hit" effects to draw cards, gain armor, summon 2/3 taunts, etc.
Dr Boom can deal Frostbolt damage with hero power, or summon 3 1/1 rush mechs, or gain armor almost equal to Ice barrier (7 vs 8, but 2 mana and doesn't cost a card spot in the deck) or act as another Arcane Explosion. Also discovers rush mechs and again, can get you Dyn-o-matic or Omega Devastator.
These are the examples that come to my head, but as you can see, the tools warrior got lately have made him an incredibly powerful control class compared to other classes that can or could once play control decks. And I don't think any class is supposed to have such a great package stacking mechanics, no matter if they're control, aggro, or mid.
I think this is absolutely spot on. If you play against Warrior today and the game goes on for a while, you can't go wide, you can't go big and you can't out value them. You can't really wear them down due to regaining 7 armour regularly. That leaves hoping to fatigue them by making them run out of resources (slim chance due to infinite hero power minion generation), but that doesn't work either, even if you cleared the bombs from your deck. My experience, as a low ranked player is that it's really very difficult to beat Warrior today unless you have a fast deck. Choose a slower, control deck and be crushed.
am I the only one tired of this thread appearing on the homepage?
I for one welcome or Nerf Overlords. Soon there will be plenty of time to complain about the fact that all decks consist enirely of Magma Ragers and nothing else, to make sure that we are guaranteed a 50% winrate for all decks.
All talk of nerfing Warrior needs to stop. Rogue is the one Tier S deck in the game and the meta is totally warped around it. Warrior being the only reliable counter to Rogue is what is propping it up. Bringing Rogue down to earth will solve the issues with Warrior.
The End
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elysiana: make it 10 mana... and "at the start of your turn" effect
thank me later
So you are killing a card thats already pretty mediocre...
Always expect the unexpectable!
Why not learn to English?
Then you can stop feeling dumb....
his point was that Elysiana will get nerfed because of the competitive format in which she causes any Control mirror to go on forever, which is something Blizzard has stated they'll keep an eye on.
So yes, Elysiana is probably the most likely to get the nerf bat (even if just in such a way as to prevent repeated bouncing)
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
Which (when you consider it) is the most bizarre and pointless thing. Getting upset because a match goes on slightly longer than you want? And that somehow requires a nerf?
Hence my original statement: it's baffling.
There are so many more important issues with Hearthstone than worrying about a game taking a few more minutes than usual.
And the card itself (as stated) is hardly powerful either - so the very consideration of nerfing it is such a waste of design focus right now.
This all really smacks of being more likely that Blizzard don't want longer games at tournaments, which is such a bad reason to screw with the mechanics.
"WARRIROR".
I agree with this (though it's hero cards, not DKs). The problem is that Dr Boom (and Hagatha, but less so) are just INCREDIBLY powerful considering no other class has these kinds of late game value monsters. Not only is Dr Boom's hero power (potentially) INSANE -- there is absolutely no way to play against 5 or 6 Omega Devastators (with rush) in one game -- but Omega Assembly also drawing Zilliax and Omega Devastators. And now so many great mechs and megnatic... it's just all too much. If other classes had late game value generators (Valeera, Rexxar, Jaina) then the meta wouldn't feel so lopsided.
You either be aggro/tempo or play warrior.
it's not baffling it'S common sense. Just like Yogg Saron was nerfed mainly because it turned all tournament games into RNG clow fiestas, Elysiana does effectively the same by forcing control decks to pretty much go into a 50 card match and hope that they have better RNG than their opponents.
the nerf that will most likely happen is probably going to up her cost to 9 or 10 mana so not every class has access to a bounce with Brewmaster. It's not just about casual, it's mainly about the new specialist format where this matchup would happen constantly, which is unacceptable for both the players and the viewers.
They won't destroy the card, I'll bet they might even up her stats as compensation (maybe even add taunt or something), but they definitely won't let her remain in a position were every class can get 20 extra cards (they'll leave that to Shaman, which would at least give the class an inherent advantage in the ctrl Warrior matchup, adding to diversity on ladder since Warrior won't be the strictly best control deck around)
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
Ok, whatever you say.
Bottom line is that the card is pretty situational at best and certainly not in need of a any sort of nerf.
Agree to disagree otherwise...
you really seem to misunderstand. I'm not telling you why I think the card needs a nerf, I'm telling you why Blizzard themselves have stated they are keeping an eye on it (Blizzard-speak for: "we're gonna have to hit this eventually") because you seem to not understand where they are coming from.
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
I have to agree with this. I don't understand why some classes have gotten another hero card and the others haven't. Zul'jin is also a very powerful game turning card, just like Boom.
About warrior, the problem in my humble opinion is that he is stacking way too much board control in addition to the mech synergy. To make it more obvious how control mech warrior has become overpowered compared to other control archetypes, I like to compare warrior's control options with mage's ones, that is:
These are the examples that come to my head, but as you can see, the tools warrior got lately have made him an incredibly powerful control class compared to other classes that can or could once play control decks. And I don't think any class is supposed to have such a great package stacking mechanics, no matter if they're control, aggro, or mid.
Jeez you have some really good arguments here man.
Do we talk about nerfs or bans? Hmmm
and Blizzard never ban card so we cant really talk about it.
Thanks.
You mean warrior is tier 3?
Warrior is tier 1. Sorry.
I realize you were going for Mage cards, but I don't think these comparisons are very fair.
Cinderstorm was mainly run in Aggro/Tempo mage and often used for face damage. Dyn-no-matic is countered by mech decks, and can cause awkward plays if the Warrior deck isn't running all mechs.
Meteor was like a minion focused Pyroblast that did 5 extra damage to the target along with 3 cleave damage. A better comparison would be Flame Lance and even that would be a fair enough point.
Astral Rift is a bad card, so this comparison is pointless.
Arcane Explosion is considered a below average card. A Blizzard without freeze is called Consecration and even then Warpath hits your own minions. Hellfire is also 4 mana. Defile which I'll admit was super strong and not the best comparison is 2.
I'll give you Dr. Boom though I guess.
am I the only one tired of this thread appearing on the homepage?
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
I think this is absolutely spot on. If you play against Warrior today and the game goes on for a while, you can't go wide, you can't go big and you can't out value them. You can't really wear them down due to regaining 7 armour regularly. That leaves hoping to fatigue them by making them run out of resources (slim chance due to infinite hero power minion generation), but that doesn't work either, even if you cleared the bombs from your deck. My experience, as a low ranked player is that it's really very difficult to beat Warrior today unless you have a fast deck. Choose a slower, control deck and be crushed.
Diablo + Dungeon Master = Dungeons of Castle Madness
I for one welcome or Nerf Overlords.
Soon there will be plenty of time to complain about the fact that all decks consist enirely of Magma Ragers and nothing else, to make sure that we are guaranteed a 50% winrate for all decks.
^_^
All talk of nerfing Warrior needs to stop. Rogue is the one Tier S deck in the game and the meta is totally warped around it. Warrior being the only reliable counter to Rogue is what is propping it up. Bringing Rogue down to earth will solve the issues with Warrior.
The End