In every single thread discussing the balance of the Wild format, there is always one or two comments about how Wild is meant to be broken, or that Wild is a dumpster format where old sets rot for eternity. Wild is just as much a part of Hearthstone as Standard, and its balance is important. People who play Wild want to have fun just as much as people who play Standard, but they are treated as second class citizens. Blizzard's attitude towards Wild is expected. Standard has a much larger player base and is much more expensive in the long term, so Blizzard dismisses problems with the Wild format.
My problem is with people who treat Wild players as idiots for playing a garbage format with unbalanced cards because they hate how much fun Standard is. Even popular streamers like Toast hold this belief, and I think that this attitude contributes to the toxicity in the Hearthstone community. Wild is a fun format and people who play it shouldn't be judged for doing so.
In every single thread discussing the balance of the Wild format, there is always one or two comments about how Wild is meant to be broken, or that Wild is a dumpster format where old sets rot for eternity. Wild is just as much a part of Hearthstone as Standard, and its balance is important. People who play Wild want to have fun just as much as people who play Standard, but they are treated as second class citizens. Blizzard's attitude towards Wild is expected. Standard has a much larger player base and is much more expensive in the long term, so Blizzard dismisses problems with the Wild format.
My problem is with people who treat Wild players as idiots for playing a garbage format with unbalanced cards because they hate how much fun Standard is. Even popular streamers like Toast hold this belief, and I think that this attitude contributes to the toxicity in the Hearthstone community. Wild is a fun format and people who play it shouldn't be judged for doing so.
Damn, you’re actually correct. One of the few new threads these days that is coherent and addresses a prevalent issue.
To be fair, I look to Wild players as those who have a much larger collection than the one I have and that can experiment countless more combinations; I don't want to exaggerate, but I kinda admire them. I don't play the format (just played some Dragon Inner Fire Priest in the low ranks with decent success), but I'm still interested and I feel sorry for all the dumb shit you have to go through in these days.
On the other hand, I really despise those Wild players who feel themselves superior just because they play the non-mainstream format. Those whose comments make you feel worthless just because you can't do what they do. Oh God I hate them.
Anyway, just as I branched out Wild players into different categories, you should do the same thing with Standard ones. But still, I see your point.
Wild is not that fun nowadays because there's a lot of stuff that has to be shut turned a little (just to list some: Resurrect in Big Priest, maybe Bloodbloom in DH Warlock or even Voidcaller in general, Metaltooth Leaper in Mech Hunter, Muster for Battle in Odd Paladin and so on).
I hope the new Devs will reward you with some quality balance changes cause you, as all the other players in this game, deserve to have fun.
Got to agree there! I mainly play wild, and totally think they need to nerf wild only cards (as theycpreviously did) if a deck is really out of control
Wild is not that fun nowadays because there's a lot of stuff that has to be shut turned a little (just to list some: Resurrect in Big Priest, maybe Bloodbloom in DH Warlock or even Voidcaller in general, Metaltooth Leaper in Mech Hunter, Muster for Battle in Odd Paladin and so on).
I hope the new Devs will reward you with some quality balance changes cause you, as all the other players in this game, deserve to have fun.
I see your point but these statements are silly. If you wrote: "I don't think wild is fun because of...". I guarantee you that there are lots of people who think wild is fun. Big Priest and DH warlock are not unbeatable, and personally I love to face Odd Paladin and Mech hunter because I beat them 9/10. Sure all decks can highroll but DH warlock is also likely to have a clunky hand with expensive minions. So, with all do respect, speak for yourself.
Seriously though. I understand. I played wild last year and Big priest was a little busted, even shaman was pretty busted too and odd pirate rogue had no actual weakness.
So yeah, it needs balancing. I can only image it's worse now?
This. I'm primarily a wild player nowadays and have been since Witchwood. Wild for sure has more opportunity for obnoxious combos to pop up just because of the sheer number of moving pieces, but it has been way more stable and diverse than the general populous seems to think for a very long time. There is a serious balance issue right now that's preventing any diversity in deckbuilding - really the key aspect of the format - and that in itself deserves some actual attention. Even if Wild isn't as genuine to a lot of the player base, it is still a format supported by blizzard, and should be balanced at least with as much attention as they give to arena.
Wild is not that fun nowadays because there's a lot of stuff that has to be shut turned a little (just to list some: Resurrect in Big Priest, maybe Bloodbloom in DH Warlock or even Voidcaller in general, Metaltooth Leaper in Mech Hunter, Muster for Battle in Odd Paladin and so on).
I hope the new Devs will reward you with some quality balance changes cause you, as all the other players in this game, deserve to have fun.
I see your point but these statements are silly. If you wrote: "I don't think wild is fun because of...". I guarantee you that there are lots of people who think wild is fun. Big Priest and DH warlock are not unbeatable, and personally I love to face Odd Paladin and Mech hunter because I beat them 9/10. Sure all decks can highroll but DH warlock is also likely to have a clunky hand with expensive minions. So, with all do respect, speak for yourself.
Yeah but, as you said, it's all a matter of highroll: your opponent gets Barnes on 4? Fuck you. Your opponent gets Galvanizers and the other mech that discounts in the opening hand? Fuck you.
I watched some games in the last Wild Tournament and that's exactly the feeling I got, which was later confirmed by a very interesting discussion held on this forum. Now, I'm not sure all those cards I listed are the problem, but even big Wild streamer stated that there's something wrong with Wild now. It's undeniable. you can tech against aggressive decks but it's just because your matchups is highly polarized.
You can still have fun in Wild (just like you could still have fun in Standard a month ago) but a lot less than you could have.
You are barking at the wrong tree though mate. Wild is "dumster" format not because the playerbase said so but because the developers chose to. So attitude of the community will change little to nothing. You are just shooting the messenger here.
Wild is not that fun nowadays because there's a lot of stuff that has to be shut turned a little (just to list some: Resurrect in Big Priest, maybe Bloodbloom in DH Warlock or even Voidcaller in general, Metaltooth Leaper in Mech Hunter, Muster for Battle in Odd Paladin and so on).
I hope the new Devs will reward you with some quality balance changes cause you, as all the other players in this game, deserve to have fun.
I see your point but these statements are silly. If you wrote: "I don't think wild is fun because of...". I guarantee you that there are lots of people who think wild is fun. Big Priest and DH warlock are not unbeatable, and personally I love to face Odd Paladin and Mech hunter because I beat them 9/10. Sure all decks can highroll but DH warlock is also likely to have a clunky hand with expensive minions. So, with all do respect, speak for yourself.
Yeah but, as you said, it's all a matter of highroll: your opponent gets Barnes on 4? Fuck you. Your opponent gets Galvanizers and the other mech that discounts in the opening hand? Fuck you.
I watched some games in the last Wild Tournament and that's exactly the feeling I got, which was later confirmed by a very interesting discussion held on this forum. Now, I'm not sure all those cards I listed are the problem, but even big Wild streamer stated that there's something wrong with Wild now. It's undeniable. you can tech against aggressive decks but it's just because your matchups is highly polarized.
You can still have fun in Wild (just like you could still have fun in Standard a month ago) but a lot less than you could have.
Granted, wild has issues and high rolls can feel bad. But remember people don't get barnes on t3/t4 each game, and even then you might still stand a chance. Mech hunter gets crushed by defile etc. Regardless I hope Blizzard takes a look at wild balance. I just found your statement too generalizing. :-)
I think Wild is a fantastic format and great fun. I also think it needs to be allowed to be the crazy, high-power level format that so many people seem to be against. Trying to perpetually balance Wild is a losing battle and would just end in neutering everything fun about an eternal format.
Having said that, what Blizzard could do is some sort of compromise - a 'Wild-ish' if you will - where some cards are banned. That way the people who want a lower power format are satisfied, and those who want to play with all the cards in the game can do so.
There's a ton of modes that Blizzard could add, but I sort of understand why they don't - every additional mode they add is another mode for people to get mad at them for not balancing exactly how they want, in addition to all the split playerbase concerns.
I feel like one of the reasons why people just dump on wild all the time is due to how highrolly it seems on the outside. I do not play much wild but I have a close friend who does and I like to talk to her about how wild is since I like to play occasionally in that mode and from what I hear from her is vastly different from what I hear on forums like this. On Hearthpwn, wild sounds like a cesspool of big priests and to a lesser extent Darkest Hour Warlocks just running amok and terrorizing the entire format and while yeah the decks may be strong decks, ladder is not completely comprised of them. There's a bunch of different decks in wild that vary in what they do well yet the only ones that are really talked about most the time on forum places are the ones that highroll the shit out of people, such as turn 4 Barnes or turn 4 Darkest Hour. This stuff is not what happens a majority of the time but you would not see someone post in the salt or pepper threads "Oh I just had the most mediocre game against big priest, they didn't get a minion until turn 6 in where it was too late for them to recover".
As for cards that have been nerfed for wild, I can remember around 5-7 nerfs that were specifically for wild due to the cards being too strong in that format. The reason why I say 6-7 is because the last two, Flametongue Totem and Cold Blood, were not specifically for wild yet feel like the devs did them with wild in mind. These leaves 5 big nerfs for wild, with them being Leeching Poison, Aviana, Naga Sea Witch, Patches the Pirate and Raza the Chained. It is important to note that out of the 3 years wild has been a format and the 13 balance changes, wild first received nerfs for a year and two months.
While I'm not saying that Wild needs more frequent changes (heck, I'm kind of on the side of 'let wild be wild' because I like absurd interactions), it is depressing knowing how little Blizzard cares about the format. Naga Sea Witch (if I can remember correctly) was a problem in wild for upwards of 6-7 months and given the outcry the wild community gave, it is baffling that it took them that long to change the deck and Kingsbane Mill rogue was even worse, starting with the inception of Kingsbane. Granted, they were significantly faster in terms of nerfing Star Aligner druid and given how frequent balance patches were in Rastakhan, hopefully, they'll try applying that a bit more to wild.
Now that I'm reading what I wrote, I feel like I went on a bit of a tangent and so I'm sorry about that. However, to summarize what I am trying to say is that standard only players do not hear as much of what makes wild great and instead hear how people get highrolled due to a specific couple of decks. People then assume that due to the lack of balance changes for wild, only nerfing incredibly strong cards (heck, Patches is still played because a free 1/1 is absurdly strong), and blizzards overall silence on the format aside from the occasional wild tavern brawl or (what I think is) a yearly wild tournament only causes people to stay further away from it.
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I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
I think Wild is a fantastic format and great fun. I also think it needs to be allowed to be the crazy, high-power level format that so many people seem to be against. Trying to perpetually balance Wild is a losing battle and would just end in neutering everything fun about an eternal format.
Having said that, what Blizzard could do is some sort of compromise - a 'Wild-ish' if you will - where some cards are banned. That way the people who want a lower power format are satisfied, and those who want to play with all the cards in the game can do so.
There's a ton of modes that Blizzard could add, but I sort of understand why they don't - every additional mode they add is another mode for people to get mad at them for not balancing exactly how they want, in addition to all the split playerbase concerns.
I see your point. part of the craziness is part of the draw. and it's even inerrant in the name of the mode "wild".
I never got the name at first, but it makes total sense to me now. it's where all the most busted things can happen, but mostly in a positive way. nat pagle finishers and all that good stuff.
Their argument to "wild is supposed to be broken" is "because this is how it is in magic" AND HEARTHSTONE IS NOT FUCKING MAGIC, STOP WITH THAT RETARDED ARGUMENTT!
I don't think Wild should be broken, but the fact is that there are way to many outrageous ways to cheat mana in Wild, to the point where you'd always have a dominant, mana-cheating deck. Until that changes, most people don't want to play it.
The key part is this "highroll" term. This is inherited with simplified UI and low complexity of rules that they are printing such cards do diversify matchups. Unfortunately all comes down to the methodology of blancing the game, where big data is applied - rock paper scissors and 50% winrate goal. Without any chance to have sideboard and counterstrategy to the known, not random opponent, there is no chance for any change to the balancing scheme.
If wild is so great and deserving of balance to the level of standard, why did they make standard at all???
Hard to convince players the format is worth anything when the company itself doesn't.
Did you really ask why they made standard? There is only one answer. They made standard as primary mod in which will be all competitions so that NEW players can be competitive and dont have to collect OR learn more then 1k of old cards! You must understand at least a little bit of marketing and how it works. There is no way they can create new players if they need tons of dust, cards and money to play only one mode with ALL cards..that is litarally IMPossible ;)
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In every single thread discussing the balance of the Wild format, there is always one or two comments about how Wild is meant to be broken, or that Wild is a dumpster format where old sets rot for eternity. Wild is just as much a part of Hearthstone as Standard, and its balance is important. People who play Wild want to have fun just as much as people who play Standard, but they are treated as second class citizens. Blizzard's attitude towards Wild is expected. Standard has a much larger player base and is much more expensive in the long term, so Blizzard dismisses problems with the Wild format.
My problem is with people who treat Wild players as idiots for playing a garbage format with unbalanced cards because they hate how much fun Standard is. Even popular streamers like Toast hold this belief, and I think that this attitude contributes to the toxicity in the Hearthstone community. Wild is a fun format and people who play it shouldn't be judged for doing so.
Damn, you’re actually correct. One of the few new threads these days that is coherent and addresses a prevalent issue.
This is the kind of thread I have been wanting to see, completely agree.
To be fair, I look to Wild players as those who have a much larger collection than the one I have and that can experiment countless more combinations; I don't want to exaggerate, but I kinda admire them. I don't play the format (just played some Dragon Inner Fire Priest in the low ranks with decent success), but I'm still interested and I feel sorry for all the dumb shit you have to go through in these days.
On the other hand, I really despise those Wild players who feel themselves superior just because they play the non-mainstream format. Those whose comments make you feel worthless just because you can't do what they do. Oh God I hate them.
Anyway, just as I branched out Wild players into different categories, you should do the same thing with Standard ones. But still, I see your point.
Wild is not that fun nowadays because there's a lot of stuff that has to be shut turned a little (just to list some: Resurrect in Big Priest, maybe Bloodbloom in DH Warlock or even Voidcaller in general, Metaltooth Leaper in Mech Hunter, Muster for Battle in Odd Paladin and so on).
I hope the new Devs will reward you with some quality balance changes cause you, as all the other players in this game, deserve to have fun.
I hope to have explained myself well.
Got to agree there! I mainly play wild, and totally think they need to nerf wild only cards (as theycpreviously did) if a deck is really out of control
I see your point but these statements are silly. If you wrote: "I don't think wild is fun because of...". I guarantee you that there are lots of people who think wild is fun. Big Priest and DH warlock are not unbeatable, and personally I love to face Odd Paladin and Mech hunter because I beat them 9/10. Sure all decks can highroll but DH warlock is also likely to have a clunky hand with expensive minions. So, with all do respect, speak for yourself.
+1
Wild lives matter, too.
Seriously though. I understand. I played wild last year and Big priest was a little busted, even shaman was pretty busted too and odd pirate rogue had no actual weakness.
So yeah, it needs balancing. I can only image it's worse now?
This. I'm primarily a wild player nowadays and have been since Witchwood. Wild for sure has more opportunity for obnoxious combos to pop up just because of the sheer number of moving pieces, but it has been way more stable and diverse than the general populous seems to think for a very long time. There is a serious balance issue right now that's preventing any diversity in deckbuilding - really the key aspect of the format - and that in itself deserves some actual attention. Even if Wild isn't as genuine to a lot of the player base, it is still a format supported by blizzard, and should be balanced at least with as much attention as they give to arena.
Yeah but, as you said, it's all a matter of highroll: your opponent gets Barnes on 4? Fuck you. Your opponent gets Galvanizers and the other mech that discounts in the opening hand? Fuck you.
I watched some games in the last Wild Tournament and that's exactly the feeling I got, which was later confirmed by a very interesting discussion held on this forum. Now, I'm not sure all those cards I listed are the problem, but even big Wild streamer stated that there's something wrong with Wild now. It's undeniable. you can tech against aggressive decks but it's just because your matchups is highly polarized.
You can still have fun in Wild (just like you could still have fun in Standard a month ago) but a lot less than you could have.
You are barking at the wrong tree though mate. Wild is "dumster" format not because the playerbase said so but because the developers chose to. So attitude of the community will change little to nothing. You are just shooting the messenger here.
Wild is for rich people, I feel like I'm missing out basically. Damn.
next level here ! https://soundcloud.com/becauseyeye
Granted, wild has issues and high rolls can feel bad. But remember people don't get barnes on t3/t4 each game, and even then you might still stand a chance. Mech hunter gets crushed by defile etc. Regardless I hope Blizzard takes a look at wild balance. I just found your statement too generalizing. :-)
I think Wild is a fantastic format and great fun. I also think it needs to be allowed to be the crazy, high-power level format that so many people seem to be against. Trying to perpetually balance Wild is a losing battle and would just end in neutering everything fun about an eternal format.
Having said that, what Blizzard could do is some sort of compromise - a 'Wild-ish' if you will - where some cards are banned. That way the people who want a lower power format are satisfied, and those who want to play with all the cards in the game can do so.
There's a ton of modes that Blizzard could add, but I sort of understand why they don't - every additional mode they add is another mode for people to get mad at them for not balancing exactly how they want, in addition to all the split playerbase concerns.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!
I feel like one of the reasons why people just dump on wild all the time is due to how highrolly it seems on the outside. I do not play much wild but I have a close friend who does and I like to talk to her about how wild is since I like to play occasionally in that mode and from what I hear from her is vastly different from what I hear on forums like this. On Hearthpwn, wild sounds like a cesspool of big priests and to a lesser extent Darkest Hour Warlocks just running amok and terrorizing the entire format and while yeah the decks may be strong decks, ladder is not completely comprised of them. There's a bunch of different decks in wild that vary in what they do well yet the only ones that are really talked about most the time on forum places are the ones that highroll the shit out of people, such as turn 4 Barnes or turn 4 Darkest Hour. This stuff is not what happens a majority of the time but you would not see someone post in the salt or pepper threads "Oh I just had the most mediocre game against big priest, they didn't get a minion until turn 6 in where it was too late for them to recover".
As for cards that have been nerfed for wild, I can remember around 5-7 nerfs that were specifically for wild due to the cards being too strong in that format. The reason why I say 6-7 is because the last two, Flametongue Totem and Cold Blood, were not specifically for wild yet feel like the devs did them with wild in mind. These leaves 5 big nerfs for wild, with them being Leeching Poison, Aviana, Naga Sea Witch, Patches the Pirate and Raza the Chained. It is important to note that out of the 3 years wild has been a format and the 13 balance changes, wild first received nerfs for a year and two months.
While I'm not saying that Wild needs more frequent changes (heck, I'm kind of on the side of 'let wild be wild' because I like absurd interactions), it is depressing knowing how little Blizzard cares about the format. Naga Sea Witch (if I can remember correctly) was a problem in wild for upwards of 6-7 months and given the outcry the wild community gave, it is baffling that it took them that long to change the deck and Kingsbane Mill rogue was even worse, starting with the inception of Kingsbane. Granted, they were significantly faster in terms of nerfing Star Aligner druid and given how frequent balance patches were in Rastakhan, hopefully, they'll try applying that a bit more to wild.
Now that I'm reading what I wrote, I feel like I went on a bit of a tangent and so I'm sorry about that. However, to summarize what I am trying to say is that standard only players do not hear as much of what makes wild great and instead hear how people get highrolled due to a specific couple of decks. People then assume that due to the lack of balance changes for wild, only nerfing incredibly strong cards (heck, Patches is still played because a free 1/1 is absurdly strong), and blizzards overall silence on the format aside from the occasional wild tavern brawl or (what I think is) a yearly wild tournament only causes people to stay further away from it.
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
I see your point. part of the craziness is part of the draw. and it's even inerrant in the name of the mode "wild".
I never got the name at first, but it makes total sense to me now. it's where all the most busted things can happen, but mostly in a positive way. nat pagle finishers and all that good stuff.
Their argument to "wild is supposed to be broken" is "because this is how it is in magic" AND HEARTHSTONE IS NOT FUCKING MAGIC, STOP WITH THAT RETARDED ARGUMENTT!
I don't think Wild should be broken, but the fact is that there are way to many outrageous ways to cheat mana in Wild, to the point where you'd always have a dominant, mana-cheating deck. Until that changes, most people don't want to play it.
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
The key part is this "highroll" term. This is inherited with simplified UI and low complexity of rules that they are printing such cards do diversify matchups. Unfortunately all comes down to the methodology of blancing the game, where big data is applied - rock paper scissors and 50% winrate goal. Without any chance to have sideboard and counterstrategy to the known, not random opponent, there is no chance for any change to the balancing scheme.
If wild is so great and deserving of balance to the level of standard, why did they make standard at all???
Hard to convince players the format is worth anything when the company itself doesn't.
Hi i'm Tyler and I play hearthstone and watch anime.
Sometimes i make cards. I'd like to do that for a career one day if ever possible.
Did you really ask why they made standard? There is only one answer. They made standard as primary mod in which will be all competitions so that NEW players can be competitive and dont have to collect OR learn more then 1k of old cards! You must understand at least a little bit of marketing and how it works. There is no way they can create new players if they need tons of dust, cards and money to play only one mode with ALL cards..that is litarally IMPossible ;)