the issue is there aint enough aoe in standard. believe it or not but the loss of defile dragon fury volcano etc left warrior being the only class of achieveing some control over aggro. token druid aint the issue
There is plenty of AOE available. Token druid is fine IMO. Aggro decks need to exist and I don't see a reason why this particular one deserves a nerf currently. It's existence isn't eliminating entire archetypes from the meta and even as a top deck it's win rate against the other top decks isn't out of line. Like any strong deck, it will continue to punish unrefined lists and force other decks to adapt.
well overall i think blizzard does a fine work nerfing cards, but the most importen thing here is that they nerf it 1 week before next expension which is stupid play from them. but yheaa, small india company
People who complain about Token Druid really should just try using Token Druid and see that Token Druid can lose matches. If you are seeing a lot of Token Druids and want to beat the crap out of them, take up using Tempo Rogue. Then, with Tempo Rogue, you will beat all those nasty Token Druids and lose to all those Midrange Hunters.
I am very surprised about two things: 1) Whining about this and that. I feel like standard mode is so much better now that Baku and Death Knights are behind us. When I lose a match I don't mind so much. It feels slightly fair sometimes. I get that feeling of like "you know, I lost at a game that is usually a 50-50 type thing, with a fraction of 50.1 % whatever sometimes." I'm having a great time with my decks and my new cards. 2) I am still very disappointed with how Token Druids hoard all the tokens at the arcade. I think they should share their tokens so we can play some Skee Ball.
Hi dear hardcore fanboy. Allow me to deconstruct your post.
First let me define what I understand about your species called Hearthstonium fanboyirencis ( I know I made that up, but bear with me, it's for the common good).
Fanboyirencis is a fast believer in andupholds the following:
No criticism. Developers are always right, they are wise, know what they're doing.
The skill floor must be as low as possible. After all it's a fast paced game.
If a archetype is oppressive, just play a counter.
No whining. Be a man, work your way around things. Be pragmatic.
Win rates, that's all there is.
Sure we're gonna win wars with your kind. All military in the world harbors types like you. The military is also full of jarheads. Hearthstone is the only game in the world where skill is not a win condition. Going to Vegas, try a slot machine. That's about the skill you will need. The target audience of Hearthstone.
Have you ever wondered how much Hearthstone resembles the inner core, the Heartland of the United States of America, origen of this game? Hearthstone, Heartland, indeed a funny ring. Don't question authority. Shoot first, think later. Also the United States, but not from the Heartland series like Startrek. The other way around: think first, shoot later.
Maybe I'm drifting a little bit, but hey, defending Token Druid, saying people shouldn't whine, complain, just be pragmatic or whatever echo's a parallel world at odds with mine where fairness, rewarding balance, doing the right thing, have their say. It's about finesse and nuance.Too much for your pragmatic jarhead.
By the way, playing Rogue as a counter and then killed by Hunters, doesn't solve the Druid problem, does it? And the fact that this exp feels better than the previous, doesn't justify its conceptual flaws, does it?
You should read the Salty Thread. You should also learn how to read. Also, take a course on sarcasm. I think your brain needs some devs.
the issue is there aint enough aoe in standard. believe it or not but the loss of defile dragon fury volcano etc left warrior being the only class of achieveing some control over aggro. token druid aint the issue
There is plenty of AOE available. Token druid is fine IMO. Aggro decks need to exist and I don't see a reason why this particular one deserves a nerf currently. It's existence isn't eliminating entire archetypes from the meta and even as a top deck it's win rate against the other top decks isn't out of line. Like any strong deck, it will continue to punish unrefined lists and force other decks to adapt.
You know that the problem of that archetype is the existence of soul of the forest and Savage roar, right? And I guess you also know that the problem when you're playing against this deck is that you keep on spending your whole turns merely postponing their win condition without ever having a shot at putting in place one of your own, do you?
By the way, let's repeat it one more time: the main problem with this deck is that it's fast, effective and, most important, CHEAP!!! Anybody can afford crafting it. Therefore it's everywhere!
By the way, let's repeat it one more time: the main problem with this deck is that it's fast, effective and, most important, CHEAP!!! Anybody can afford crafting it. Therefore it's everywhere!
that's a good thing though. just having the best decks be expensive is elitist. you can't have all the top decks being the most expensive things to craft as that would be completely unfair.
there needs to be decks everyone can build, that are good.
also like it's been mentioned about 300 f*cking times now, it has strong counters, it's not omnipotent in any sense.
By the way, let's repeat it one more time: the main problem with this deck is that it's fast, effective and, most important, CHEAP!!! Anybody can afford crafting it. Therefore it's everywhere!
that's a good thing though. just having the best decks be expensive is elitist. you can't have all the top decks being the most expensive things to craft as that would be completely unfair.
there needs to be decks everyone can build, that are good.
also like it's been mentioned about 300 f*cking times now, it has strong counters, it's not omnipotent in any sense.
Can't say i agree fully here. There needs to be a balance here. The best decks being the most expensive would indeed be a bit elitist, pay to win, but it would be fair to those who have spent a fair bit of money on the game. A cheap deck doing extremely well could also be a problem. It could hinder creativity and variation, why spend money and time, when i can just play this deck and win most of the time?
Both have really bad downsides, Token Druid has the potential to become that one deck if stronger deck lists get's made or the deck get's more support.
the issue is there aint enough aoe in standard. believe it or not but the loss of defile dragon fury volcano etc left warrior being the only class of achieveing some control over aggro. token druid aint the issue
There is plenty of AOE available. Token druid is fine IMO. Aggro decks need to exist and I don't see a reason why this particular one deserves a nerf currently. It's existence isn't eliminating entire archetypes from the meta and even as a top deck it's win rate against the other top decks isn't out of line. Like any strong deck, it will continue to punish unrefined lists and force other decks to adapt.
You know that the problem of that archetype is the existence of soul of the forest and Savage roar, right? And I guess you also know that the problem when you're playing against this deck is that you keep on spending your whole turns merely postponing their win condition without ever having a shot at putting in place one of your own, do you?
I agree that Soul of forest and Savage Roar are key cards. Insurance against AOE and Burst are often required for an aggro deck to be successful. Taking away either would certainly make the deck less effective. What I don't agree with is that these cards are problems. While Token Druid has changed from expansion to expansion, it's been a solid deck for some time now. This current list may or may not be it's strongest form, but it certainly hasn't always been the top deck of every meta despite having access to both Soul of the Forest and Savage Roar.
I'm not sure I get the point of your second question. If I'm playing a non-aggro deck and I'm up against any aggro deck at all, I will often have to decide between advancing my own board/strategy and dealing with my opponents. Single target removal and AOE will be included in nearly all decks to potentially deal with whatever my opponent might be playing. The removal you include should be chosen based on what you need it for. If token druid is a poor match-up and very popular, include more answers or change decks if beating it is that important. I also wouldn't call removing their board "merely postponing" since the deck has counters and loses plenty of games to a wide range of decks.
Token druid is a very good deck, but that doesn't mean it needs a nerf, especially this early into the expansion.
the issue is there aint enough aoe in standard. believe it or not but the loss of defile dragon fury volcano etc left warrior being the only class of achieveing some control over aggro. token druid aint the issue
There is plenty of AOE available. Token druid is fine IMO. Aggro decks need to exist and I don't see a reason why this particular one deserves a nerf currently. It's existence isn't eliminating entire archetypes from the meta and even as a top deck it's win rate against the other top decks isn't out of line. Like any strong deck, it will continue to punish unrefined lists and force other decks to adapt.
most of those are too late or too inconsequential..you weren't here during WotoG i presume, this topic has been discussed many times, a ton of those cards dont even manage to kill a single thing for their mana slots. 2 damage aoE for 5 mana is ridicously bad, as well as 1 dmg aoe for 2 damage is bad, that's the reason things like Dragonfire Potion, Volcanic PotionAbyssal Enforcer and Felfire Potion got printed in MSOG, equality is also completely nerfed and very inconsequential for its turn unless playing against decks that focus on tall boards, when it comes to AoE quality matters far more than quantity
By the way, let's repeat it one more time: the main problem with this deck is that it's fast, effective and, most important, CHEAP!!! Anybody can afford crafting it. Therefore it's everywhere!
By the way, let's repeat it one more time: the main problem with this deck is that it's fast, effective and, most important, CHEAP!!! Anybody can afford crafting it. Therefore it's everywhere!
Another reason why the deck needs to be questioned. Should this style of play be this effective and rewarding? Should every new deck being made be forced to adapt to ONE deck if this get's too popular? Should we be okay with any of this?
the issue is there aint enough aoe in standard. believe it or not but the loss of defile dragon fury volcano etc left warrior being the only class of achieveing some control over aggro. token druid aint the issue
There is plenty of AOE available. Token druid is fine IMO. Aggro decks need to exist and I don't see a reason why this particular one deserves a nerf currently. It's existence isn't eliminating entire archetypes from the meta and even as a top deck it's win rate against the other top decks isn't out of line. Like any strong deck, it will continue to punish unrefined lists and force other decks to adapt.
You know that the problem of that archetype is the existence of soul of the forest and Savage roar, right? And I guess you also know that the problem when you're playing against this deck is that you keep on spending your whole turns merely postponing their win condition without ever having a shot at putting in place one of your own, do you?
Thanks for putting it a way similarly to how i would, Token Druid has many ways to fill the board effectively, eventually something or some thing will stick, leading it to you taking a lot of damage in one turn. Not every deck runs all of this removal, they can't because it could hinder each decks effectiveness. You are also not guarantied to have these cards in hand when you need them and some times time is not on you side if you get low on Turn 5 because they drew well. For the sake of the future, some cards in Token Druid needs to be questioned on whenever they are too powerful or cost effective for what they do.
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Neutral-Doomsayer, Wild Pyromancer, Abomination, Dragonmaw Scorcher, Mossy Horror, Missile Launcher, Baron Geddon, Tunnel Blaster, Batterhead
Druid- Swipe, Stafall
Hunter- Explosive Trap, Unleash the Hounds
Mage- Shooting Star, Arcane Explosion, Cone of Cold, Blast Wave, Blizzard, Flamestrike
Paladin- Consecration, Equality, Shrink Ray, Avenging Wrath
Priest- Circle of Healing, Mass Dispel, Holy Nova, Mass Hysteria
Rogue- Fan of Knives, Vanish
Shaman- Beakered Lightning, Lightning Storm, Hagatha's Scheme, Hagatha the Witch
Warlock- Shriek, Hellfire, Shadowflame, Lord Godfrey, Twisting Nether
There is plenty of AOE available. Token druid is fine IMO. Aggro decks need to exist and I don't see a reason why this particular one deserves a nerf currently. It's existence isn't eliminating entire archetypes from the meta and even as a top deck it's win rate against the other top decks isn't out of line. Like any strong deck, it will continue to punish unrefined lists and force other decks to adapt.
lol,this thread is real? All I see are warriors and rogues. When I see a druid, I celebrate.
well overall i think blizzard does a fine work nerfing cards, but the most importen thing here is that they nerf it 1 week before next expension which is stupid play from them. but yheaa, small india company
"I want to be able to beat any deck with any other deck, is that too much to ask?"
You should read the Salty Thread. You should also learn how to read. Also, take a course on sarcasm. I think your brain needs some devs.
This is what no rebut looks like.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
This is a deck that deals very well with the Token Druid: try it!
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1270758-duid-anti-token
My guess is they'll eventually HOF Savage Roar since it has been a problem for years. Anyone want to relive the charging treant days?
Don't worry about that guy.
You know that the problem of that archetype is the existence of soul of the forest and Savage roar, right? And I guess you also know that the problem when you're playing against this deck is that you keep on spending your whole turns merely postponing their win condition without ever having a shot at putting in place one of your own, do you?
By the way, let's repeat it one more time: the main problem with this deck is that it's fast, effective and, most important, CHEAP!!! Anybody can afford crafting it. Therefore it's everywhere!
I mean, we basically are right now since most decks can't deal with 7 wisps/trees in one turn, every turn.
It is not about finding an appropriate counter since that would be vulnerable to other archetypes.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
that's a good thing though. just having the best decks be expensive is elitist. you can't have all the top decks being the most expensive things to craft as that would be completely unfair.
there needs to be decks everyone can build, that are good.
also like it's been mentioned about 300 f*cking times now, it has strong counters, it's not omnipotent in any sense.
Can't say i agree fully here. There needs to be a balance here. The best decks being the most expensive would indeed be a bit elitist, pay to win, but it would be fair to those who have spent a fair bit of money on the game. A cheap deck doing extremely well could also be a problem. It could hinder creativity and variation, why spend money and time, when i can just play this deck and win most of the time?
Both have really bad downsides, Token Druid has the potential to become that one deck if stronger deck lists get's made or the deck get's more support.
I agree that Soul of forest and Savage Roar are key cards. Insurance against AOE and Burst are often required for an aggro deck to be successful. Taking away either would certainly make the deck less effective. What I don't agree with is that these cards are problems. While Token Druid has changed from expansion to expansion, it's been a solid deck for some time now. This current list may or may not be it's strongest form, but it certainly hasn't always been the top deck of every meta despite having access to both Soul of the Forest and Savage Roar.
I'm not sure I get the point of your second question. If I'm playing a non-aggro deck and I'm up against any aggro deck at all, I will often have to decide between advancing my own board/strategy and dealing with my opponents. Single target removal and AOE will be included in nearly all decks to potentially deal with whatever my opponent might be playing. The removal you include should be chosen based on what you need it for. If token druid is a poor match-up and very popular, include more answers or change decks if beating it is that important. I also wouldn't call removing their board "merely postponing" since the deck has counters and loses plenty of games to a wide range of decks.
Token druid is a very good deck, but that doesn't mean it needs a nerf, especially this early into the expansion.
That is one of the dangers with the deck, it has the potential to hinder deck creativity, and with stronger support in the future, this could get bad.
most of those are too late or too inconsequential..you weren't here during WotoG i presume, this topic has been discussed many times, a ton of those cards dont even manage to kill a single thing for their mana slots. 2 damage aoE for 5 mana is ridicously bad, as well as 1 dmg aoe for 2 damage is bad, that's the reason things like Dragonfire Potion, Volcanic Potion Abyssal Enforcer and Felfire Potion got printed in MSOG, equality is also completely nerfed and very inconsequential for its turn unless playing against decks that focus on tall boards, when it comes to AoE quality matters far more than quantity
Another reason why the deck needs to be questioned. Should this style of play be this effective and rewarding? Should every new deck being made be forced to adapt to ONE deck if this get's too popular? Should we be okay with any of this?
Thanks for putting it a way similarly to how i would, Token Druid has many ways to fill the board effectively, eventually something or some thing will stick, leading it to you taking a lot of damage in one turn. Not every deck runs all of this removal, they can't because it could hinder each decks effectiveness. You are also not guarantied to have these cards in hand when you need them and some times time is not on you side if you get low on Turn 5 because they drew well. For the sake of the future, some cards in Token Druid needs to be questioned on whenever they are too powerful or cost effective for what they do.