Detaching people from their own experiences is fundamental to make them understand. If not learned to toss own experience aside, it's simply impossible to take a step back and analyse objectively. What's left is just unscrutinized opinion.
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We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
Right now, People are saying that pretty much any deck that's strong is OP. The issue is, If every deck is OP, that just means that the power level is higher overall. there will always be a top 5 decks, and that's about what we have now. In addition, the meta still hasn't settled. There could be control decks people haven't tried yet.
Token druid isn't unbeatable. I routinely do with a murloc shaman. I have about a 50% winrate vs. token with a silence warlock. If it's still a problem in a month, then you can let us know.
Right now, People are saying that pretty much any deck that's strong is OP. The issue is, If every deck is OP, that just means that the power level is higher overall. there will always be a top 5 decks, and that's about what we have now. In addition, the meta still hasn't settled. There could be control decks people haven't tried yet.
Token druid isn't unbeatable. I routinely do with a murloc shaman. I have about a 50% winrate vs. token with a silence warlock. If it's still a problem in a month, then you can let us know.
Same thing happens every time. Sometimes people are right, but this time they aren't IMO everything has at least 2 counters and that's the way it should be. It's supposed to be a game with a very basic premise under all of it, it's rock, paper scissors formula. You;re good against some things, not others, that's how the game is balanced.
If you are able to be strong against all the decks, that is in fact OP and broken.
These arguments are paradoxical. and I know I've said this here before.
I'm one of those pesky Token Druids on the ladder in mid ranks (2-5) and I must admit Savage Roar is busted. Wouldn't mind an increase to 4 Mana at all (it'd be reasonable).
Right now, People are saying that pretty much any deck that's strong is OP. The issue is, If every deck is OP, that just means that the power level is higher overall. there will always be a top 5 decks, and that's about what we have now. In addition, the meta still hasn't settled. There could be control decks people haven't tried yet.
Token druid isn't unbeatable. I routinely do with a murloc shaman. I have about a 50% winrate vs. token with a silence warlock. If it's still a problem in a month, then you can let us know.
Right now, People are saying that pretty much any deck that's strong is OP. The issue is, If every deck is OP, that just means that the power level is higher overall. there will always be a top 5 decks, and that's about what we have now. In addition, the meta still hasn't settled. There could be control decks people haven't tried yet.
Token druid isn't unbeatable. I routinely do with a murloc shaman. I have about a 50% winrate vs. token with a silence warlock. If it's still a problem in a month, then you can let us know.
I think there is an misunderstanding, this thread is not about beating the deck, it is to question the deck and discuss if the thing it can do with a small amount of resources is worth to highlight or ignore.
Right now, People are saying that pretty much any deck that's strong is OP. The issue is, If every deck is OP, that just means that the power level is higher overall. there will always be a top 5 decks, and that's about what we have now. In addition, the meta still hasn't settled. There could be control decks people haven't tried yet.
Token druid isn't unbeatable. I routinely do with a murloc shaman. I have about a 50% winrate vs. token with a silence warlock. If it's still a problem in a month, then you can let us know.
Right now, People are saying that pretty much any deck that's strong is OP. The issue is, If every deck is OP, that just means that the power level is higher overall. there will always be a top 5 decks, and that's about what we have now. In addition, the meta still hasn't settled. There could be control decks people haven't tried yet.
Token druid isn't unbeatable. I routinely do with a murloc shaman. I have about a 50% winrate vs. token with a silence warlock. If it's still a problem in a month, then you can let us know.
I think there is an misunderstanding, this thread is not about beating the deck, it is to question the deck and discuss if the thing it can do with a small amount of resources is worth to highlight or ignore.
Leeroy Jenkins+Cold Blood+Cold Blood=14 damage. Before the nerf, it was 7 mana deal 14 damage. In three cards. At least Token Druid gives you a fucking turn before you get SMOrced.
Right now, People are saying that pretty much any deck that's strong is OP. The issue is, If every deck is OP, that just means that the power level is higher overall. there will always be a top 5 decks, and that's about what we have now. In addition, the meta still hasn't settled. There could be control decks people haven't tried yet.
Token druid isn't unbeatable. I routinely do with a murloc shaman. I have about a 50% winrate vs. token with a silence warlock. If it's still a problem in a month, then you can let us know.
Right now, People are saying that pretty much any deck that's strong is OP. The issue is, If every deck is OP, that just means that the power level is higher overall. there will always be a top 5 decks, and that's about what we have now. In addition, the meta still hasn't settled. There could be control decks people haven't tried yet.
Token druid isn't unbeatable. I routinely do with a murloc shaman. I have about a 50% winrate vs. token with a silence warlock. If it's still a problem in a month, then you can let us know.
I think there is an misunderstanding, this thread is not about beating the deck, it is to question the deck and discuss if the thing it can do with a small amount of resources is worth to highlight or ignore.
Leeroy Jenkins+Cold Blood+Cold Blood=14 damage. Before the nerf, it was 7 mana deal 14 damage. In three cards. At least Token Druid gives you a fucking turn before you get SMOrced.
Right now, People are saying that pretty much any deck that's strong is OP. The issue is, If every deck is OP, that just means that the power level is higher overall. there will always be a top 5 decks, and that's about what we have now. In addition, the meta still hasn't settled. There could be control decks people haven't tried yet.
Token druid isn't unbeatable. I routinely do with a murloc shaman. I have about a 50% winrate vs. token with a silence warlock. If it's still a problem in a month, then you can let us know.
Right now, People are saying that pretty much any deck that's strong is OP. The issue is, If every deck is OP, that just means that the power level is higher overall. there will always be a top 5 decks, and that's about what we have now. In addition, the meta still hasn't settled. There could be control decks people haven't tried yet.
Token druid isn't unbeatable. I routinely do with a murloc shaman. I have about a 50% winrate vs. token with a silence warlock. If it's still a problem in a month, then you can let us know.
I think there is an misunderstanding, this thread is not about beating the deck, it is to question the deck and discuss if the thing it can do with a small amount of resources is worth to highlight or ignore.
Leeroy Jenkins+Cold Blood+Cold Blood=14 damage. Before the nerf, it was 7 mana deal 14 damage. In three cards. At least Token Druid gives you a fucking turn before you get SMOrced.
A poor comparison. A Rogue needs these specific card in there hand to pull this exact combo of effectively. Token Druid can do damage similar to this when combined with a small amount of Token already on the board. They have have 2 Tokens with 2 attack each on the board, they have Savage Roar in the hand, that's 10 damage just like that. Are you seeing what i'm getting at? This is with the lowest amount of effort possible. The better the deck, the better the player, the more damage you take in one turn from no wear. Would it feel good for the other player lose that much health because they could not clear 2 Tokens with no removal in hand, or taunt on the field?
These things need to be questioned, and how people can be okay with it.
A poor comparison. A Rogue needs these specific card in there hand to pull this exact combo of effectively. Token Druid can do damage similar to this when combined with a small amount of Token already on the board. They have have 2 Tokens with 2 attack each on the board, they have Savage Roar in the hand, that's 10 damage just like that. Are you seeing what i'm getting at? This is with the lowest amount of effort possible. The better the deck, the better the player, the more damage you take in one turn from no wear. Would it feel good for the other player lose that much health because they could not clear 2 Tokens with no removal in hand, or taunt on the field?
These things need to be questioned, and how people can be okay with it.
Having two minions on the board is not nothing, and harder to accomplish than it might sound. Not to mention that Taunts can get in the way. And more importantly, it is the only source of burst damage (besides Swipe maybe) Druid has access to. It is indeed a poor comparison to Rogue's burst potential, since Rogue has many more ways to push for damage and has a more solid gameplan than just relying on a specific board state. You make it sound like Savage Roar is a 3 mana Pyroblast, which it really isn't. Especially not, since Force of Nature was nerfed.
Savage Roar is only really playable in decks that try to get many minions on the board. What seems oh-so-unfair to you is actually a fairly situational win condition, tied to a strategy that oftentimes had no chance in the meta.
Your only real point here is that Druid is relatively good right now at filling the board and thus more likely to win games with SR. But this has less to do with the deck being too good, and more with the other classes being not good enough at countering it. Standard has the least possible amount of board clears and Taunt minions right now, and this will likely change next expansion. I think it is more likely that Token Druid will get weaker over time, than stronger.
Remember Journey to Un'Goro? Back then, Token Druid was very strong and popular as well, thanks to Living Mana and the super strong Mark of the Lotus, and the fact that Patches the Pirate was a "free" minion. In Frozen Throne, Token Druid was a lot less popular already, and by K&C it was pretty much dead. While it was still a decent deck, other decks just got more support and more answers to it. Just shows you how fragile this strategy really is.
Right now, it's really all the same, except for the fact that were are just one week into the new expansion. Even if Token Druid survives the experimental phase before the meta settles down, which I wouldn't bet on, it could look at lot worse by next expansion already. And for fast actions, it is nowhere near as oppressive right now as some other decks that warranted this kind of intervention, like Quest Rogue in JTU or Jade Druid in KFT, which were entirely shutting down most other decks in the game.
People who complain about Token Druid really should just try using Token Druid and see that Token Druid can lose matches. If you are seeing a lot of Token Druids and want to beat the crap out of them, take up using Tempo Rogue. Then, with Tempo Rogue, you will beat all those nasty Token Druids and lose to all those Midrange Hunters.
I am very surprised about two things: 1) Whining about this and that. I feel like standard mode is so much better now that Baku and Death Knights are behind us. When I lose a match I don't mind so much. It feels slightly fair sometimes. I get that feeling of like "you know, I lost at a game that is usually a 50-50 type thing, with a fraction of 50.1 % whatever sometimes." I'm having a great time with my decks and my new cards. 2) I am still very disappointed with how Token Druids hoard all the tokens at the arcade. I think they should share their tokens so we can play some Skee Ball.
People who complain about Token Druid really should just try using Token Druid and see that Token Druid can lose matches. If you are seeing a lot of Token Druids and want to beat the crap out of them, take up using Tempo Rogue. Then, with Tempo Rogue, you will beat all those nasty Token Druids and lose to all those Midrange Hunters.
I am very surprised about two things: 1) Whining about this and that. I feel like standard mode is so much better now that Baku and Death Knights are behind us. When I lose a match I don't mind so much. It feels slightly fair sometimes. I get that feeling of like "you know, I lost at a game that is usually a 50-50 type thing, with a fraction of 50.1 % whatever sometimes." I'm having a great time with my decks and my new cards. 2) I am still very disappointed with how Token Druids hoard all the tokens at the arcade. I think they should share their tokens so we can play some Skee Ball.
Hi dear hardcore fanboy. Allow me to deconstruct your post.
First let me define what I understand about your species called Hearthstonium fanboyirencis ( I know I made that up, but bear with me, it's for the common good).
Fanboyirencis is a fast believer in andupholds the following:
No criticism. Developers are always right, they are wise, know what they're doing.
The skill floor must be as low as possible. After all it's a fast paced game.
If a archetype is oppressive, just play a counter.
No whining. Be a man, work your way around things. Be pragmatic.
Win rates, that's all there is.
Sure we're gonna win wars with your kind. All military in the world harbors types like you. The military is also full of jarheads. Hearthstone is the only game in the world where skill is not a win condition. Going to Vegas, try a slot machine. That's about the skill you will need. The target audience of Hearthstone.
Have you ever wondered how much Hearthstone resembles the inner core, the Heartland of the United States of America, origen of this game? Hearthstone, Heartland, indeed a funny ring. Don't question authority. Shoot first, think later. Also the United States, but not from the Heartland series like Startrek. The other way around: think first, shoot later.
Maybe I'm drifting a little bit, but hey, defending Token Druid, saying people shouldn't whine, complain, just be pragmatic or whatever echo's a parallel world at odds with mine where fairness, rewarding balance, doing the right thing, have their say. It's about finesse and nuance.Too much for your pragmatic jarhead.
By the way, playing Rogue as a counter and then killed by Hunters, doesn't solve the Druid problem, does it? And the fact that this exp feels better than the previous, doesn't justify its conceptual flaws, does it?
People who complain about Token Druid really should just try using Token Druid and see that Token Druid can lose matches. If you are seeing a lot of Token Druids and want to beat the crap out of them, take up using Tempo Rogue. Then, with Tempo Rogue, you will beat all those nasty Token Druids and lose to all those Midrange Hunters.
I am very surprised about two things: 1) Whining about this and that. I feel like standard mode is so much better now that Baku and Death Knights are behind us. When I lose a match I don't mind so much. It feels slightly fair sometimes. I get that feeling of like "you know, I lost at a game that is usually a 50-50 type thing, with a fraction of 50.1 % whatever sometimes." I'm having a great time with my decks and my new cards. 2) I am still very disappointed with how Token Druids hoard all the tokens at the arcade. I think they should share their tokens so we can play some Skee Ball.
Hi dear hardcore fanboy. Allow me to deconstruct your post.
First let me define what I understand about your species called Hearthstonium fanboyirencis ( I know I made that up, but bear with me, it's for the common good).
Fanboyirencis is a fast believer in andupholds the following:
No criticism. Developers are always right, they are wise, know what they're doing.
The skill floor must be as low as possible. After all it's a fast paced game.
If a archetype is oppressive, just play a counter.
No whining. Be a man, work your way around things. Be pragmatic.
People who complain about Token Druid really should just try using Token Druid and see that Token Druid can lose matches. If you are seeing a lot of Token Druids and want to beat the crap out of them, take up using Tempo Rogue. Then, with Tempo Rogue, you will beat all those nasty Token Druids and lose to all those Midrange Hunters.
I am very surprised about two things: 1) Whining about this and that. I feel like standard mode is so much better now that Baku and Death Knights are behind us. When I lose a match I don't mind so much. It feels slightly fair sometimes. I get that feeling of like "you know, I lost at a game that is usually a 50-50 type thing, with a fraction of 50.1 % whatever sometimes." I'm having a great time with my decks and my new cards. 2) I am still very disappointed with how Token Druids hoard all the tokens at the arcade. I think they should share their tokens so we can play some Skee Ball.
Hi dear hardcore fanboy. Allow me to deconstruct your post.
First let me define what I understand about your species called Hearthstonium fanboyirencis ( I know I made that up, but bear with me, it's for the common good).
Fanboyirencis is a fast believer in andupholds the following:
No criticism. Developers are always right, they are wise, know what they're doing.
The skill floor must be as low as possible. After all it's a fast paced game.
If a archetype is oppressive, just play a counter.
No whining. Be a man, work your way around things. Be pragmatic.
Win rates, that's all there is.
Sure we're gonna win wars with your kind. All military in the world harbors types like you. The military is also full of jarheads. Hearthstone is the only game in the world where skill is not a win condition. Going to Vegas, try a slot machine. That's about the skill you will need. The target audience of Hearthstone.
Have you ever wondered how much Hearthstone resembles the inner core, the Heartland of the United States of America, origen of this game? Hearthstone, Heartland, indeed a funny ring. Don't question authority. Shoot first, think later. Also the United States, but not from the Heartland series like Startrek. The other way around: think first, shoot later.
Maybe I'm drifting a little bit, but hey, defending Token Druid, saying people shouldn't whine, complain, just be pragmatic or whatever echo's a parallel world at odds with mine where fairness, rewarding balance, doing the right thing, have their say. It's about finesse and nuance.Too much for your pragmatic jarhead.
By the way, playing Rogue as a counter and then killed by Hunters, doesn't solve the Druid problem, does it? And the fact that this exp feels better than the previous, doesn't justify its conceptual flaws, does it?
I'm fairly certain you have a mental illness and I highly suggest seeing a doctor.
Aggro is meant to be a valid playstyle competitively. Token druid swarms the board easily because aggro swarms the board according to its own playstyle.
Not every class is supposed to have a powerful answer to everything. (Rogues didn't exactly have an answer to wide demon taunt walls produced by Gul'Dan when the dk was in standard, yet you never saw any control locks complain about their lack of answer).
Control is not meant to be the only powerful playstyle.
Detaching people from their own experiences is fundamental to make them understand. If not learned to toss own experience aside, it's simply impossible to take a step back and analyse objectively. What's left is just unscrutinized opinion.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
Hahahahaha
https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-126/
Yup, -token druid- is the problem.
Shouldn't there be multiple viable ways to play a class? I don't know if you realize this, but you kinda strengthen my point.
Your entire original post is whining about how token druid is stupidly overpowered, yet it's not even the strongest deck. Hmmm
Right now, People are saying that pretty much any deck that's strong is OP. The issue is, If every deck is OP, that just means that the power level is higher overall. there will always be a top 5 decks, and that's about what we have now. In addition, the meta still hasn't settled. There could be control decks people haven't tried yet.
Token druid isn't unbeatable. I routinely do with a murloc shaman. I have about a 50% winrate vs. token with a silence warlock. If it's still a problem in a month, then you can let us know.
Same thing happens every time. Sometimes people are right, but this time they aren't IMO everything has at least 2 counters and that's the way it should be. It's supposed to be a game with a very basic premise under all of it, it's rock, paper scissors formula. You;re good against some things, not others, that's how the game is balanced.
If you are able to be strong against all the decks, that is in fact OP and broken.
These arguments are paradoxical. and I know I've said this here before.
Same thing every time, dude. ha ha.
I'm one of those pesky Token Druids on the ladder in mid ranks (2-5) and I must admit Savage Roar is busted. Wouldn't mind an increase to 4 Mana at all (it'd be reasonable).
People are so mentally ill these days that they even play this cancer in casual ALL THE TIME
I wonder sometimes if they all got their lobotomy at the same place
So you choose to stay ignorant, i guess there is no point to reach out to some..
I think there is an misunderstanding, this thread is not about beating the deck, it is to question the deck and discuss if the thing it can do with a small amount of resources is worth to highlight or ignore.
Leeroy Jenkins+Cold Blood+Cold Blood=14 damage. Before the nerf, it was 7 mana deal 14 damage. In three cards. At least Token Druid gives you a fucking turn before you get SMOrced.
A poor comparison. A Rogue needs these specific card in there hand to pull this exact combo of effectively. Token Druid can do damage similar to this when combined with a small amount of Token already on the board. They have have 2 Tokens with 2 attack each on the board, they have Savage Roar in the hand, that's 10 damage just like that. Are you seeing what i'm getting at? This is with the lowest amount of effort possible. The better the deck, the better the player, the more damage you take in one turn from no wear. Would it feel good for the other player lose that much health because they could not clear 2 Tokens with no removal in hand, or taunt on the field?
These things need to be questioned, and how people can be okay with it.
Having two minions on the board is not nothing, and harder to accomplish than it might sound. Not to mention that Taunts can get in the way. And more importantly, it is the only source of burst damage (besides Swipe maybe) Druid has access to. It is indeed a poor comparison to Rogue's burst potential, since Rogue has many more ways to push for damage and has a more solid gameplan than just relying on a specific board state. You make it sound like Savage Roar is a 3 mana Pyroblast, which it really isn't. Especially not, since Force of Nature was nerfed.
Savage Roar is only really playable in decks that try to get many minions on the board. What seems oh-so-unfair to you is actually a fairly situational win condition, tied to a strategy that oftentimes had no chance in the meta.
Your only real point here is that Druid is relatively good right now at filling the board and thus more likely to win games with SR. But this has less to do with the deck being too good, and more with the other classes being not good enough at countering it. Standard has the least possible amount of board clears and Taunt minions right now, and this will likely change next expansion. I think it is more likely that Token Druid will get weaker over time, than stronger.
Remember Journey to Un'Goro? Back then, Token Druid was very strong and popular as well, thanks to Living Mana and the super strong Mark of the Lotus, and the fact that Patches the Pirate was a "free" minion. In Frozen Throne, Token Druid was a lot less popular already, and by K&C it was pretty much dead. While it was still a decent deck, other decks just got more support and more answers to it. Just shows you how fragile this strategy really is.
Right now, it's really all the same, except for the fact that were are just one week into the new expansion. Even if Token Druid survives the experimental phase before the meta settles down, which I wouldn't bet on, it could look at lot worse by next expansion already. And for fast actions, it is nowhere near as oppressive right now as some other decks that warranted this kind of intervention, like Quest Rogue in JTU or Jade Druid in KFT, which were entirely shutting down most other decks in the game.
People who complain about Token Druid really should just try using Token Druid and see that Token Druid can lose matches. If you are seeing a lot of Token Druids and want to beat the crap out of them, take up using Tempo Rogue. Then, with Tempo Rogue, you will beat all those nasty Token Druids and lose to all those Midrange Hunters.
I am very surprised about two things: 1) Whining about this and that. I feel like standard mode is so much better now that Baku and Death Knights are behind us. When I lose a match I don't mind so much. It feels slightly fair sometimes. I get that feeling of like "you know, I lost at a game that is usually a 50-50 type thing, with a fraction of 50.1 % whatever sometimes." I'm having a great time with my decks and my new cards. 2) I am still very disappointed with how Token Druids hoard all the tokens at the arcade. I think they should share their tokens so we can play some Skee Ball.
You should take a look in the mirror (and these past 7 pages) and maybe draw a conclusion for once.
Hi dear hardcore fanboy. Allow me to deconstruct your post.
First let me define what I understand about your species called Hearthstonium fanboyirencis ( I know I made that up, but bear with me, it's for the common good).
Fanboyirencis is a fast believer in and upholds the following:
Sure we're gonna win wars with your kind. All military in the world harbors types like you. The military is also full of jarheads. Hearthstone is the only game in the world where skill is not a win condition. Going to Vegas, try a slot machine. That's about the skill you will need. The target audience of Hearthstone.
Have you ever wondered how much Hearthstone resembles the inner core, the Heartland of the United States of America, origen of this game? Hearthstone, Heartland, indeed a funny ring. Don't question authority. Shoot first, think later. Also the United States, but not from the Heartland series like Startrek. The other way around: think first, shoot later.
Maybe I'm drifting a little bit, but hey, defending Token Druid, saying people shouldn't whine, complain, just be pragmatic or whatever echo's a parallel world at odds with mine where fairness, rewarding balance, doing the right thing, have their say. It's about finesse and nuance.Too much for your pragmatic jarhead.
By the way, playing Rogue as a counter and then killed by Hunters, doesn't solve the Druid problem, does it? And the fact that this exp feels better than the previous, doesn't justify its conceptual flaws, does it?
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
Nice one :p
I'm fairly certain you have a mental illness and I highly suggest seeing a doctor.
job's done.
Aggro is meant to be a valid playstyle competitively. Token druid swarms the board easily because aggro swarms the board according to its own playstyle.
Not every class is supposed to have a powerful answer to everything. (Rogues didn't exactly have an answer to wide demon taunt walls produced by Gul'Dan when the dk was in standard, yet you never saw any control locks complain about their lack of answer).
Control is not meant to be the only powerful playstyle.
Sorry.