i see some powerful value combos beeing tried and loads of agressive, board flooding options. Shure i can make a mechthun deck but those feel unreliable. We will see.
People are still going to complain about OTK & combo deck despite getting two (three?) new tech cards to force minion summons/spell casts simply because the cards aren't 100% I-Win Buttons 100% of the time.
It's going to be Dirty Rat all over again by all of the bad players that don't know how to time tech cards intelligently.
Considering people have whined about Aggro / Combo / OTK / Control decks since pretty much the first week Hearthstone came out and then following every expansion and balance change, it's probably not the most unlikely prediction in the world. ^_^
People are still going to complain about OTK & combo deck despite getting two (three?) new tech cards to force minion summons/spell casts simply because the cards aren't 100% I-Win Buttons 100% of the time.
It's going to be Dirty Rat all over again by all of the bad players that don't know how to time tech cards intelligently.
People are going to complain about OTK/combo because even when you play everything perfectly against them, they're still incredibly unfun to play against. Not because these new tech cards aren't win-the-game buttons.
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Mecha'thun is still in standard, and the cards you mention absolutely destroy it.
How will people kill off their own Mecha'thun anyway? You need extra mana (Innervate, The Coin) and a cheap method to kill the big boy. Warlocks have Grim Rally, but no coin generation. Druids have access to aditional mana, but they will lose their spellstone and Naturalize.
I guess druids can play Mecha'thun + 2x Innervate + 1 Biology Project (or vise versa) + Voodoo Doll + Moonfire, but that shit is counterable in my different ways as you said. Not to mention, in RoS druids will be vulnerable to aggro more than ever.
[edit] I forgot, that Mecha'thun warrior is also a thing. NVM then.
Mecha'thun is still in standard, and the cards you mention absolutely destroy it.
How will people kill off their own Mecha'thun anyway? You need extra mana (Innervate, The Coin) and a cheap method to kill the big boy. Warlocks have Grim Rally, but no coin generation. Druids have access to aditional mana, but they will lose their spellstone and Naturalize.
I guess druids can play Mecha'thun + 2x Innervate + 1 Biology Project (or vise versa) + Voodoo Doll + Moonfire, but that shit is counterable in my different ways as you said. Not to mention, in RoS druids will be vulnerable to aggro more than ever.
[edit] I forgot, that Mecha'thun warrior is also a thing. NVM then.
Mecha'thun is still in standard, and the cards you mention absolutely destroy it.
How will people kill off their own Mecha'thun anyway? You need extra mana (Innervate, The Coin) and a cheap method to kill the big boy. Warlocks have Grim Rally, but no coin generation. Druids have access to aditional mana, but they will lose their spellstone and Naturalize.
I guess druids can play Mecha'thun + 2x Innervate + 1 Biology Project (or vise versa) + Voodoo Doll + Moonfire, but that shit is counterable in my different ways as you said. Not to mention, in RoS druids will be vulnerable to aggro more than ever.
[edit] I forgot, that Mecha'thun warrior is also a thing. NVM then.
Look at the new cards, then look at what cards rotating out. Then think again , its not a single removal that will give you the edge back on the board. Every removal that cost 6 or more looses to aggro. Its gonna be spamming minions and going face, then next expansion they will give us more removals. Then the OTK decks will come.
Its not a single good spell in this expansion, those who have high mana cost. Just gives you more minions.
Ya, that's true. I forgot about the Galvanizers back when I wrote the post. But as I said in the Saboteur reveal thread, those decks require you to keep (only* the combo pieces in the hand and those will be vulnerable to hand disruption.
Yeah, I don't know if Mecha'thun is actually viable, but I know that it's there for people to bitch about rather than easily counter.
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Shirvallah Paladin will be fairly strong I think. Tier 3 at worst, maybe tier 2. It's only really losing the DK and Righteous Protector. Which are strong cards for the deck for sure but it can work without them.
You won't be able to horseman but you really only needed that because mage/druid/warrior had burst armor and every class has a DK so sometimes you could get locked out of the 25 or 50 damage.
It is disruptable by a hardcore control deck but it has to be one that dedicates a couple slots to anti combo. I don't think it beats warrior anymore but other things probably.
It is great we got tools and all, but OTK decks does not belong in HS - nobody likes to play against OTK - the whole "game being set on a clock untill my opponent draws his combo pieces" is pure cancer.
I hope this year will bring the end of OTK decks and that Aggro, Control and midrange can thrive in peace without the OTK overlords.
I have to disagree there. All playstyles put you on some form of a clock and control is particularly at fault for this, especially when one class has as 'infinite value' engine and the other does not. Take warlock and hunter for example, Gul'Dan creates/created infinite single target removal and Rexxar creates infinite slow value. If you're playing a control variant of rogue (non-Kingsbane), Paladin, Shaman (non-otk), or Druid (non-otk) you're already on a clock to pull off a win because you only have so much removal/threats compared to the control lock/hunter and they will never run out of them. So while control clocks aren't instant wins/losses vs less busted control classes/decks they still serve that purpose of needing to win sooner than later or you're just screwed.
As for waiting for your opponent to draw their pieces why not use tech cards? They were made a for a reason and no deck is going to be allowed to stay in either format if it were a deck that could thrive against everything without the need to use tech cards. Sure people will complain about tech cards lowering win rates against other things, but that is how tech cards are intended to work. You trade higher win rates against some things for lower win rates against others. If you aren't including techs against OTKs/combos it would just be techs against something else.
Plenty of people like to play against OTKs, and I'm not just talking about aggro/midrange players. I mostly play meme underdog OTKs that are not fotm and when going against other OTK decks I personally find it fun to see if I will be able to get my meme off before their net deck. Even if I lose I'm generally not going to be mad. Saying that everyone hates playing against aggro holds as much weight as saying everyone hates playing against aggro, or control. Surely not everyone hates playing against everything ;)
People are still going to complain about OTK & combo deck despite getting two (three?) new tech cards to force minion summons/spell casts simply because the cards aren't 100% I-Win Buttons 100% of the time.
It's going to be Dirty Rat all over again by all of the bad players that don't know how to time tech cards intelligently.
People are going to complain about OTK/combo because even when you play everything perfectly against them, they're still incredibly unfun to play against. Not because these new tech cards aren't win-the-game buttons.
Eh, the not fun to play against argument isn't very exciting to me. Anybody can argue that any playstyle or deck is not fun to play against based off of almost any reason. I find many control decks not fun to play against because only a handful of classes have all of the busted control removal tools & value generation, while the other 2/3 to 1/2 of the other classes have to hobble together awkward control decks that are competitive. That doesn't mean my dislike of control is the only opinion out there.
As for playing perfectly, yes you can make the most optimal plays every turn in a game (not very likely to do all of the time, but close to possible). However, even with perfect plays there are still natural match-ups that you are generally meant to lose even when playing perfectly. Perfect play =/= the right to consistently win even naturally disadvantaged match-ups.
i think the "warrior bomb decks" might be able to stop these otk decks, just a question if the bomb decks will be top meta
i see some powerful value combos beeing tried and loads of agressive, board flooding options. Shure i can make a mechthun deck but those feel unreliable. We will see.
Considering people have whined about Aggro / Combo / OTK / Control decks since pretty much the first week Hearthstone came out and then following every expansion and balance change, it's probably not the most unlikely prediction in the world. ^_^
FTFY
People are going to complain about OTK/combo because even when you play everything perfectly against them, they're still incredibly unfun to play against. Not because these new tech cards aren't win-the-game buttons.
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Priest can do with Lazul's Scheme (10 ticks) and Forbidden WordsEdit: I just read the Scheme again. It says "enemy minion". So this does not work.
I suggest you read Lazuli's Scheme again.
It hits ENEMY minions, not your own
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AND THE TEXT OUTSIDE "()" IS ME! THE GREAT AND MIGHTY CTHUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Class mains are warrior, rogue and mage)
Galvanizer still exists for Warlock to pull it off with Grim Rally
#nerfbarnes
Look at the new cards, then look at what cards rotating out. Then think again , its not a single removal that will give you the edge back on the board. Every removal that cost 6 or more looses to aggro. Its gonna be spamming minions and going face, then next expansion they will give us more removals. Then the OTK decks will come.
Its not a single good spell in this expansion, those who have high mana cost. Just gives you more minions.
Ya, that's true. I forgot about the Galvanizers back when I wrote the post. But as I said in the Saboteur reveal thread, those decks require you to keep (only* the combo pieces in the hand and those will be vulnerable to hand disruption.
Bombs are going to be so much fun against people using Myra's Unstable Element. ... Or no fun at all, depending on how soon they play it.
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Er, this is going to be an aggro meta. This thread is pointless.
Yeah, I don't know if Mecha'thun is actually viable, but I know that it's there for people to bitch about rather than easily counter.
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Shirvallah Paladin will be fairly strong I think. Tier 3 at worst, maybe tier 2. It's only really losing the DK and Righteous Protector. Which are strong cards for the deck for sure but it can work without them.
You won't be able to horseman but you really only needed that because mage/druid/warrior had burst armor and every class has a DK so sometimes you could get locked out of the 25 or 50 damage.
It is disruptable by a hardcore control deck but it has to be one that dedicates a couple slots to anti combo. I don't think it beats warrior anymore but other things probably.
I have to disagree there. All playstyles put you on some form of a clock and control is particularly at fault for this, especially when one class has as 'infinite value' engine and the other does not. Take warlock and hunter for example, Gul'Dan creates/created infinite single target removal and Rexxar creates infinite slow value. If you're playing a control variant of rogue (non-Kingsbane), Paladin, Shaman (non-otk), or Druid (non-otk) you're already on a clock to pull off a win because you only have so much removal/threats compared to the control lock/hunter and they will never run out of them. So while control clocks aren't instant wins/losses vs less busted control classes/decks they still serve that purpose of needing to win sooner than later or you're just screwed.
As for waiting for your opponent to draw their pieces why not use tech cards? They were made a for a reason and no deck is going to be allowed to stay in either format if it were a deck that could thrive against everything without the need to use tech cards. Sure people will complain about tech cards lowering win rates against other things, but that is how tech cards are intended to work. You trade higher win rates against some things for lower win rates against others. If you aren't including techs against OTKs/combos it would just be techs against something else.
Plenty of people like to play against OTKs, and I'm not just talking about aggro/midrange players. I mostly play meme underdog OTKs that are not fotm and when going against other OTK decks I personally find it fun to see if I will be able to get my meme off before their net deck. Even if I lose I'm generally not going to be mad. Saying that everyone hates playing against aggro holds as much weight as saying everyone hates playing against aggro, or control. Surely not everyone hates playing against everything ;)
Eh, the not fun to play against argument isn't very exciting to me. Anybody can argue that any playstyle or deck is not fun to play against based off of almost any reason. I find many control decks not fun to play against because only a handful of classes have all of the busted control removal tools & value generation, while the other 2/3 to 1/2 of the other classes have to hobble together awkward control decks that are competitive. That doesn't mean my dislike of control is the only opinion out there.
As for playing perfectly, yes you can make the most optimal plays every turn in a game (not very likely to do all of the time, but close to possible). However, even with perfect plays there are still natural match-ups that you are generally meant to lose even when playing perfectly. Perfect play =/= the right to consistently win even naturally disadvantaged match-ups.