Personally it depends in which format, for wild the bigger winner is shaman, with the murloc package strengthening the already tier 2 shaman murloc deck.
Rogue cards are great for standard and wild.
But the one i think enjoys more of rotation is warrior as it keeps more of his good cards compared to another clases And the one suffering more from rotation is the poor warlock had nothing decent in the last 3 expansions... Maybe solarium zoo deck might be his only redemption.
Me neither. Hunter is the best class right now by a landslide and the only major things they're losing are the DK and the egg archetype. The new cards aren't completely useless as they have great synergy with the remaining hero. Most of the other classes are losing entire archtypes because they rely on synergy but tempo decks like midrange hunter will always work as long as there's enough cards with decent powerlevel
Warlock is also an underrated class. Not only does zoo always stick around, but Jaraxxus might come back into the meta for slower warlocks now that 15HP is a safe life total again. Even with combo breaker cards, pure attrition decks are still unplayable because there's no counter to rogue's powerful value options. However, Jaraxxus enables you to do something proactive in the late game. Plot twist solves the classic issue of your hero card being in the bottom
Want to know what real losing looks like? Druid is losing everything. No ramp is bad, but no draw means you can't play a combo deck. UI is out, nourish was a bad enough stand-alone card before it was nerfed. Psychmelon isn't a good option because there's not enough minions you want to pull. You can't even use the draw options from the pre-UI days because all the cheap spells for auctioneer are rotating/nerfed. Azure drake is HoF. Ancient of Lore is nerfed
Restoration druid looks like hot garbage. If you build it slow, you have no win condition. If you build it fast, you have no good way of damaging yourself early in order to heal up. We already saw this not work with paladin time and time again. Token druid is also going to be garbage. Without UI, you're not going to get wispering woods off consistently, spreading plague is rotating and The Forest's Aid is more of a slow value tech card for the archetype than the core. Aggro druid is the only druid I can see working, but without living mana, you're just going to get rekt by a single board clear
I'm not sold on Pogo/Burgle rogue. Any aggro deck will annihilate those two decks. Rogue doesn't need more value. It needs survival tools and the expansion doesn't give them any. As much I'm hyped about value-oriented Rogue, I think the major deck we see for the class is still gonna be pirate/Myra tempo rogue perhaps with the 234 rush 333 fox and 443 discover spell from another class package.
1. Palladin. not enough dragon synergies or aggro cards
What about secret paladin though
The only thing that I feel might make secret paladin manageable is the loss of call to arms,divine favour, fungalmancer and Tarim. If the new cards are suitable replacements then it will be a killer deck. Just curious to see what happens without them, Tarim was such a game ender with that deck.
I think Rogue, Paladin, Shaman, and Warlock were pretty strong winners.
I think Hunter, Priest, and Warrior were "losers." - But these classes will be absolutely fine. The cards from the last few sets will support Warrior and Hunter. Priests cards weren't "good" per se, but I think they benefit from a very strong neutral package. So they are "losers" in that their class cards don't look that great, but they work well with many of the neutrals.
I'm not sure I see the argument for the remaining Hunter cards keeping it above water. I know every class is getting weaker so builds don't have to be as OP as before to remain viable, but here's how it looks to me:
Midrange decks are losing candleshot, dire mole, crackling razormaw, flanking strike, DK Rexxar and I don't see any new beasts you'd really want to include to keep Master's Call consistently drawing 3 (though maybe I'm missing something). There are also no new weapons (besides the one from Vereesa Windrunner) and the new spells don't particularly support an aggro/tempo style imo. Obviously there's still springpaw into hyena, but I don't see this being enough to keep the build in its dominant position (music to my ears) and I honestly think we may see more silence run this season in general. Though maybe there will be more shenanigans with Revenge of the Wild + snake trap and the spirit card which I actually wouldn't mind...
Deathrattle decks are losing all the activators besides fireworks tech along with ze egg, keleseth, cube, kathrena, DK Rexxar, and even stitched tracker. Nine Lives is much slower, Oblivitron comes with a dad bod + mech restrictions, and I don't see any super appealing DR cards among the new set.
Spellhunter is losing some good/decent secrets (wandering monster and venomstrike trap) with no replacements which makes secret plan worse imo. They're also losing candleshot, flanking strike, spellstone, to my side, Rhok'delar, and DK Rexxar which, coupled with the new spells, shifts the strategy from burning the opponent to controlling until you can get value from vereesa and zul'jin. Personally, I'm a fan of this shift because it sounds more fun in terms of theorycrafting (i.e. not as many straightforward autoincludes), but I also think it's going to make the build less competitive until new expansions offer support.
Mech builds (bomb and DR) will probably still exist but they weren't dominate before and I don't see enough new mechs to change that immediately. Ursatron will help a little with running out of steam and Hecklebot + Safeguard are interesting magnetize options, but there's no more stitched tracker for pulling extra copies of zilliax, war gear, etc. when you need them and the necromechanic + void ripper combo is losing the ripper. I can see the argument that bomb hunter may ascend given the lower power level of all decks, but, as I mentioned earlier, I think silence is going to be run more frequently this expansion and I feel like several classes got more healing support (druid and pally?).
I'm sure I'm missing some angles though so let me know what gives you guys optimism!
I'm not sure I see the argument for the remaining Hunter cards keeping it above water. I know every class is getting weaker so builds don't have to be as OP as before to remain viable, but here's how it looks to me:
Midrange decks are losing candleshot, dire mole, crackling razormaw, flanking strike, DK Rexxar and I don't see any new beasts you'd really want to include to keep Master's Call consistently drawing 3 (though maybe I'm missing something).
IMO there is still enough - The loss of Diremole and Razormaw definitely hurts, but the enough of the bones are still there to make the deck a top tier one.
Hench-clan Hogsteed is an obvious fit for the type of deck. Some players were already playing Headhunter's Hatchet over Candleshot (they were wrong, but it shows that Hatchet is still a good card). Shimmerfly isn't "good" but it's not terrible, and it's an easy Hatchet activator. Unleash the Beast, to me, seems better in this deck than Highmane. I often cut Highmane or only ran 1 copy. In an era of token decks, Unleash the Hounds gains a lot of traction. Players (especially Deathstar) were also already experimenting a lot with Wing Blast. Dire Frenzy was a card VS hated, but was always played. Now without rexxar, it still gives Hunter longer game. And, now that we are playing some more spells that develop the board, Zul'jin can find his way in as the deck's last-gasp top end.
I'm not sure I see the argument for the remaining Hunter cards keeping it above water. I know every class is getting weaker so builds don't have to be as OP as before to remain viable, but here's how it looks to me:
Midrange decks are losing candleshot, dire mole, crackling razormaw, flanking strike, DK Rexxar and I don't see any new beasts you'd really want to include to keep Master's Call consistently drawing 3 (though maybe I'm missing something).
IMO there is still enough - The loss of Diremole and Razormaw definitely hurts, but the enough of the bones are still there to make the deck a top tier one.
Hench-clan Hogsteed is an obvious fit for the type of deck. Some players were already playing Headhunter's Hatchet over Candleshot (they were wrong, but it shows that Hatchet is still a good card). Shimmerfly isn't "good" but it's not terrible, and it's an easy Hatchet activator. Unleash the Beast, to me, seems better in this deck than Highmane. I often cut Highmane or only ran 1 copy. In an era of token decks, Unleash the Hounds gains a lot of traction. Players (especially Deathstar) were also already experimenting a lot with Wing Blast. Dire Frenzy was a card VS hated, but was always played. Now without rexxar, it still gives Hunter longer game. And, now that we are playing some more spells that develop the board, Zul'jin can find his way in as the deck's last-gasp top end.
Those are all good points and I think you're right that the archetype will still be viable, possibly even as a top tier build. What strikes me is just that the necessary changes seem to slow down the deck and make it more midrangey which sounds great to me, but also makes me question its dominance. Some initial reactions to your list:
Agree that Hogsteed is a better inclusion for the early game than something like Hunting Mastiff, though it'd really be nice if it left a beast on the board for its DR :(
Also agree that Headhunter's Hatchet is a good card and will see increased play. I'm just a little worried that the 1-drop beasts are now weak to hero powers and the deck overall might be slower than before (felt like every time I faced the hatchet instead of candleshot the person used it to go face-face-face).
I'm looking forwad to Shimmerfly in my spell decks and agree that it might find a home in midrange instead of something like Helpless Hatchling because the spell pool will be the most consistent/limited this expansion.
Interesting to hear you didn't run as many Highmanes and see more potential from Unleash the Beast. The beast helps you protect the board and will be sweet if you run Zul'jin, but I guess I've just died to too many Highmane shenanigans with Tundra Rhino, Hyena, Animal Companion, and Timber Wolf combos to have predicted it getting replaced. Think I've also just been scared by those times when a Hunter has run out of steam in the late game only to play Master's Call into a Highmane into my tears, haha.
I really like your observation about Unleash the Hounds. In my Hunter decks I run 2x that with springpaw, firefly, and Halazzi because Sea Giant is one of my favorite cards. Really hoping token decks are popular :D (though I'm so sad Stitched Tracker is rotating/I can't get more giants)
Wing Blast makes a lot of sense and I obviously trust Deathstar's intuition over my own. I just worry that without Flanking Strike the new midrange builds might not be able to finish things before Control decks can weather the storm.
Agree that Dire Frenzy is going to be played more and I'd love it if we saw the return of Vicious Scalehide + Countess Ashmore...sure Master's Call does something similar and synergizes with the deck way better overall, but with Ashmore you get 2 Scalehides plus a Turn 7 do nothing on the board ;P ...I dream of the day when my crafting of that card makes sense again.
I'm most excited by a build that uses the old midrange skeleton to survive until you can play a bunch of spells and drop Zul'jin to flip the board in Yogg-like glory, possibly with Vereesa. Your thinking sounds much more feasible from a competitive perspective though :)
Ii don't know how much warrior you play but i think you have no clue. Warrior got one if not the worst cards of the set beeing scheme and the 10 mana spell. They got some mechs - yeah some are great but warrior still doesn't have the earlygame under control. In addition to that paladin and rogue got better weapons and tempoplays going on.
And for that, Blizzard loves to give him crappy cards, so people won't have to complain on this class all over again.
I know the year of the dragon's idea is to reduce the power level of all new cards, but giving murlocs to my favorite class hurts me a lot. So I guess it's time to give a crown to Shaman to be king of murlocs (once again...).
With no games played yet, Rogue for me got insane cards. The same goes for Mage and Paladin. Soon we'll see...
Shaman, warlock, hunter have the worst cards.
Rogue is the clear winner, but priest and paladin get buffed as well.
I don’t get the loser votes for hunter.
Midrange hunter doesn’t lose much. Springpaw into hyena is still there.
Aggro decks are more fair now, so bomb hunter might finally work.
The exp doesn’t help a ton, that’s true, but spells might work too
Personally it depends in which format, for wild the bigger winner is shaman, with the murloc package strengthening the already tier 2 shaman murloc deck.
Rogue cards are great for standard and wild.
But the one i think enjoys more of rotation is warrior as it keeps more of his good cards compared to another clases And the one suffering more from rotation is the poor warlock had nothing decent in the last 3 expansions... Maybe solarium zoo deck might be his only redemption.
You all just don't give a f what is going on:
WINNERS;
1. Rogue. A lot of value cards. insane battlecry synergies.
2. Shaman. Yeah its not a control sham but still very strong aggro murlock.
3. Warrior. If you think warrior is a loser you better uninstall the game.
4. Warlock. Huge zoo and control posabilities.
big LOSERS:
1. Palladin. not enough dragon synergies or aggro cards
2. Priest. Silence priest is pushed once again but I don't like it. if u do so he`s a winner. I would like thief or control priest.
Druid & Hunter are in the middle.
Screen THIS.
Every expansion people cry that Rogue gets unplayable cards and is gonna suck. And every expansion Rogue turns out to be relevant in the meta.
This time everybody hypes Rogue to dominate. As a Rogue fan, I'm worried about Valeera.
Me neither. Hunter is the best class right now by a landslide and the only major things they're losing are the DK and the egg archetype. The new cards aren't completely useless as they have great synergy with the remaining hero. Most of the other classes are losing entire archtypes because they rely on synergy but tempo decks like midrange hunter will always work as long as there's enough cards with decent powerlevel
Warlock is also an underrated class. Not only does zoo always stick around, but Jaraxxus might come back into the meta for slower warlocks now that 15HP is a safe life total again. Even with combo breaker cards, pure attrition decks are still unplayable because there's no counter to rogue's powerful value options. However, Jaraxxus enables you to do something proactive in the late game. Plot twist solves the classic issue of your hero card being in the bottom
Want to know what real losing looks like? Druid is losing everything. No ramp is bad, but no draw means you can't play a combo deck. UI is out, nourish was a bad enough stand-alone card before it was nerfed. Psychmelon isn't a good option because there's not enough minions you want to pull. You can't even use the draw options from the pre-UI days because all the cheap spells for auctioneer are rotating/nerfed. Azure drake is HoF. Ancient of Lore is nerfed
Restoration druid looks like hot garbage. If you build it slow, you have no win condition. If you build it fast, you have no good way of damaging yourself early in order to heal up. We already saw this not work with paladin time and time again. Token druid is also going to be garbage. Without UI, you're not going to get wispering woods off consistently, spreading plague is rotating and The Forest's Aid is more of a slow value tech card for the archetype than the core. Aggro druid is the only druid I can see working, but without living mana, you're just going to get rekt by a single board clear
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
I'm not sold on Pogo/Burgle rogue. Any aggro deck will annihilate those two decks. Rogue doesn't need more value. It needs survival tools and the expansion doesn't give them any. As much I'm hyped about value-oriented Rogue, I think the major deck we see for the class is still gonna be pirate/Myra tempo rogue perhaps with the 234 rush 333 fox and 443 discover spell from another class package.
winner: me
loosers: you guys
What about secret paladin though
The only thing that I feel might make secret paladin manageable is the loss of call to arms,divine favour, fungalmancer and Tarim. If the new cards are suitable replacements then it will be a killer deck. Just curious to see what happens without them, Tarim was such a game ender with that deck.
How can Druid not be THE loser here?!?
Please explain.
Winners: Rogue, Priest, and (tempo) Mage
Losers: Everyone else
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I think Rogue, Paladin, Shaman, and Warlock were pretty strong winners.
I think Hunter, Priest, and Warrior were "losers." - But these classes will be absolutely fine. The cards from the last few sets will support Warrior and Hunter. Priests cards weren't "good" per se, but I think they benefit from a very strong neutral package. So they are "losers" in that their class cards don't look that great, but they work well with many of the neutrals.
I'm not sure I see the argument for the remaining Hunter cards keeping it above water. I know every class is getting weaker so builds don't have to be as OP as before to remain viable, but here's how it looks to me:
I'm sure I'm missing some angles though so let me know what gives you guys optimism!
Praise Rang.
IMO there is still enough - The loss of Diremole and Razormaw definitely hurts, but the enough of the bones are still there to make the deck a top tier one.
Hench-clan Hogsteed is an obvious fit for the type of deck.
Some players were already playing Headhunter's Hatchet over Candleshot (they were wrong, but it shows that Hatchet is still a good card).
Shimmerfly isn't "good" but it's not terrible, and it's an easy Hatchet activator.
Unleash the Beast, to me, seems better in this deck than Highmane. I often cut Highmane or only ran 1 copy.
In an era of token decks, Unleash the Hounds gains a lot of traction.
Players (especially Deathstar) were also already experimenting a lot with Wing Blast.
Dire Frenzy was a card VS hated, but was always played. Now without rexxar, it still gives Hunter longer game.
And, now that we are playing some more spells that develop the board, Zul'jin can find his way in as the deck's last-gasp top end.
Those are all good points and I think you're right that the archetype will still be viable, possibly even as a top tier build. What strikes me is just that the necessary changes seem to slow down the deck and make it more midrangey which sounds great to me, but also makes me question its dominance. Some initial reactions to your list:
Praise Rang.
Ii don't know how much warrior you play but i think you have no clue. Warrior got one if not the worst cards of the set beeing scheme and the 10 mana spell. They got some mechs - yeah some are great but warrior still doesn't have the earlygame under control. In addition to that paladin and rogue got better weapons and tempoplays going on.
Shaman is a loser because he now has awful cards.
And for that, Blizzard loves to give him crappy cards, so people won't have to complain on this class all over again.
I know the year of the dragon's idea is to reduce the power level of all new cards, but giving murlocs to my favorite class hurts me a lot. So I guess it's time to give a crown to Shaman to be king of murlocs (once again...).
I like elementals and totems.