Big priest can be out valued by odd war, it is also weak against otk decks, the only win condition is early rag, you can also tech your deck with some cards like tinkmaster overspark, who is ok against other decks of the meta, btw, big priest is not a deck that provides you a stable win, an at high ranks I personally didn’t meet a single big priest last season
Being forced to play a specific Deck to counter another imo means that said other Deck is somehow unbalanced....
Tinkmaster sucks unless there's only 1 minion on the board...
The problem isn't the Winrate,it's the fact that said Winrate pummels or skyrockets based solely on whether or not they drew Barnes on turn 4 and based on what came out of it... Also,it feels goddamn awful to play against because no one likes to kill the same damn minion 9 times in a game or having to deal with 40 mana worth of minions cheated out for just 7...
In my opinion it isn't quite the same thing. For Barnes to work you don't need any other cards.
You do. You need to resurrect the minions still. So its not that different. A 1/1 copy wouldnt be a problem.
I get it that People are mad about this issue. I wish they never nerfed sea witch in the first place. Thats what they said wild was supposted to be, a place where no combo is too overpowered and everything is possible. But after the changes to wild cards they basically said "we care about wild Balance aswell" so now they have to do something.
Your arguments a subjective, my point was that big priest has weak points and turn 4 Barnes is not unwinnable. And the problem you mentioned can be rearranged against any deck “the problem is the fact that for example kingsbane rogue winrate skyrockets based solely on whetether they drew their raiding party and what they will topdeck after, also it fells awful to play against because no one likes to be pushed by the same weapon over and over again.”I can see your point, but I also can see that after Barnes/res will get their nerf everyone will find another wild deck and will cry about how unbalanced it is. I agree the Barnes problem do exist, but if team 5 will decide to fix it they should not only nerf Barnes, because he is not the only problem that plagues the wild meta
Naga as well as aviana kun combos were REALLY high roll based decks, they were very lame and unfun so the decision to nerf them was correct or wild would feel staled (right now new decks do appear so wild is developing in a way blizz, want it to develope)
Being realistic Team 5 don't care about high roll cards insta-winning wild games. Case in point they just released Thekal - you think Barnes in big priest is bad, try losing to turn 2 coin Thekal double molten giant.
Wild exists because standard's kept fresh with card rotation meaning every year most players lose 3 expansions worth of cards from the pool they actually use (since most players don't bother with wild). Rather than give dust back for those cards (which is realistically not viable for the game long term) or frustrate players by having their content straight up disappear they went with a token effort to keep those old expansions in the game. That's all wild is right now - a token effort.
If you have 10 mana, summon a minion from your deck. It can stay at 4 mana. Eliminates early game highrolls. Still useful and powerful in a combo on turn 10 or 9 with the coin. Still allows for decks like yshaarj hunter or Renounce Warlock to exist and be viable. It could spring more use of some other weird legendaries like Madam Goya to shuffle cards back into the deck and make late game barnes more useful.
I dont think Barnes is that big of a Problem. Recently i played much wild myself and i feel like the big Priest isnt even that Powerful. Its just a ok deck (bad against every aggro deck) with game winning highroll potential.
I think High Priest Thekal into double Molten Giant at turn 3 is kinda more broken in a aggro Paladin Deck than Barnes. Its just that in wild are to many cards to make things balanced because everythink is broken af.
But dont get me wrong i woulnt mind a Barnes nerf i mean that would be 400 dust for me :).
Barnes is innocent, better nerf resurrection spells. Make them resurrect minions that cost 6 mana or less for example. Priest shouldn't be able to summon 2 mana (or 4 mana) lich kings and ragnaroses, that's just stupid. Even if he plays them on curve for 8 mana and only then starts to resurrect it is still completely overwhelming. Priest can easily combine them with board clears and removals so it's extremely hard to contest his big minions. And he plays them turn after turn after turn because the amount of resurrection he has is stupid.
I dont think Barnes is that big of a Problem. Recently i played much wild myself and i feel like the big Priest isnt even that Powerful. Its just a ok deck (bad against every aggro deck) with game winning highroll potential.
I think High Priest Thekal into double Molten Giant at turn 3 is kinda more broken in a aggro Paladin Deck than Barnes. Its just that in wild are to many cards to make things balanced because everythink is broken af.
But dont get me wrong i woulnt mind a Barnes nerf i mean that would be 400 dust for me :).
Big Priest has close to a 80% winrate with Barnes on curve, way more than any current or historic card. It is not fun to play against, the best option is usually to concede on the spot.
Your arguments a subjective, my point was that big priest has weak points and turn 4 Barnes is not unwinnable. And the problem you mentioned can be rearranged against any deck “the problem is the fact that for example kingsbane rogue winrate skyrockets based solely on whetether they drew their raiding party and what they will topdeck after, also it fells awful to play against because no one likes to be pushed by the same weapon over and over again.”I can see your point, but I also can see that after Barnes/res will get their nerf everyone will find another wild deck and will cry about how unbalanced it is. I agree the Barnes problem do exist, but if team 5 will decide to fix it they should not only nerf Barnes, because he is not the only problem that plagues the wild meta
Wild has many problems, but Barnes is obviously on top tier on its own (for various reasons).
No nerf patches are ever meant to fix a whole mode forever (sadly).
So while nerfing Barnes would not fix Wild, it would still fix a major problem (actually a very old one that they refused to fix when it was already an issue in STANDARD).
Your arguments a subjective, my point was that big priest has weak points and turn 4 Barnes is not unwinnable. And the problem you mentioned can be rearranged against any deck “the problem is the fact that for example kingsbane rogue winrate skyrockets based solely on whetether they drew their raiding party and what they will topdeck after, also it fells awful to play against because no one likes to be pushed by the same weapon over and over again.”I can see your point, but I also can see that after Barnes/res will get their nerf everyone will find another wild deck and will cry about how unbalanced it is. I agree the Barnes problem do exist, but if team 5 will decide to fix it they should not only nerf Barnes, because he is not the only problem that plagues the wild meta
My argument it's not against any Deck it's just against those that rely solely on 1 single card to win.. In fact I think that Kingsbane is a horribly designed card and I'd be glad if it got nerfed into oblivion... Same goes for unbalanced cards like Voidcaller/Mad Scientist/Thing From Below etc... I think people are complaining the most about Barnes just because it's the one that feels the worst to lose to but there's no doubt that there are cards way more broken than him in Wild... Personally,even if some little snowflake gets offended on the way (Like it happened when they nerfed Saronite/Leeching Poison) I'd love to see more frequent balance patches for both formats...
Naga as well as aviana kun combos were REALLY high roll based decks, they were very lame and unfun so the decision to nerf them was correct or wild would feel staled (right now new decks do appear so wild is developing in a way blizz, want it to develope)
How was Aviana/Kun highroll? Because I don't think Astral Druid counts,the amount of times you lost on turn 6/7 wasn't nearly as high as Naga or Barnes on curve...
I dont think Barnes is that big of a Problem. Recently i played much wild myself and i feel like the big Priest isnt even that Powerful. Its just a ok deck (bad against every aggro deck) with game winning highroll potential.
I think High Priest Thekal into double Molten Giant at turn 3 is kinda more broken in a aggro Paladin Deck than Barnes. Its just that in wild are to many cards to make things balanced because everythink is broken af.
But dont get me wrong i woulnt mind a Barnes nerf i mean that would be 400 dust for me :).
I diddnt know that legendary had its uses. Now i can actualy put my molten gigants into paladin. Also do u think if they are gonna nerf barnes would it be worth it to just go and buy that one wing that gives us as reward Barnes ? Cuz thats a "free" dust :)
Reminding you that it was boomsday, and star aligner Druid could finish you off on turn 7 with rolling psychmelon, may be at this point it is me who is subjective Druid is dullest class to me who only rely on getting ramp and draw early on and then pulling a combo which is annoying to me. And yeah, if blizz would do mounthly nerfs in wild or at least some “brawl type” rules for a weak or two that would make this mode fresh, maybe even banning some cards would be a great solution
Reminding you that it was boomsday, and star aligner Druid could finish you off on turn 7 with rolling psychmelon, may be at this point it is me who is subjective Druid is dullest class to me who only rely on getting ramp and draw early on and then pulling a combo which is annoying to me. And yeah, if blizz would do mounthly nerfs in wild or at least some “brawl type” rules for a weak or two that would make this mode fresh, maybe even banning some cards would be a great solution
In fact, Star Aligner Druid was nerfed. Twice, if we consider the brutal nerf to the Ramp package of Druid (which nearly killed the whole class).
Reminding you that it was boomsday, and star aligner Druid could finish you off on turn 7 with rolling psychmelon, may be at this point it is me who is subjective Druid is dullest class to me who only rely on getting ramp and draw early on and then pulling a combo which is annoying to me. And yeah, if blizz would do mounthly nerfs in wild or at least some “brawl type” rules for a weak or two that would make this mode fresh, maybe even banning some cards would be a great solution
In fact, Star Aligner Druid was nerfed. Twice, if we consider the brutal nerf to the Ramp package of Druid (which nearly killed the whole class).
I used Star Alligner Druid as an example to a friend who wanted more tutor cards. Turns out drawing your entire combo + ramp is an insanely consistent way to win games.
I don't think Barnes is the main problem. Resurrection cards are too powerful. I think what they could change is, rework of those cards, so that they don't resurrect anything higher than their mana cost. I know this hurts Resurrect and Eternal Servitude, but they still have other applications in decks like OTK Priest maybe. Otherwise, 2 Resurrect into 2 Rags or Turn 5 makes no sense.
Other change I suggest is, Barnes should summon the 1/1 token with the effect of the card, and the card should be removed from the deck. You can't get a Turn 4 Y'Shaarj, but you can get a 1/1 which summons other stuff. These 1/1s will be 1 mana and this goes well with the above suggestion. And when they die, they will come back with the same effect.
Last change is to have a finite graveyard. If you have 1 Rag, you should just have one, the entire game, either on board, in deck, or in graveyard. Same with Y'Shaarj, Ysera, Lich King and etc. Unless your opponent Psychic Screams his copy to your deck, this should be the case.
See, I deeply hate big priest, and how it terrorizes me whatever the fuck I play in wild. Its boring to play against, frustrating to lose to, and etc. So take my suggestions with a grain of salt, but I think these changes are just fair.
"この 先は 暗い 夜道 だけが も 知らない それでも信じて 進むんだ 星が その道 を 少し でも 照らしてくをるのを"
You do. You need to resurrect the minions still. So its not that different. A 1/1 copy wouldnt be a problem.
I get it that People are mad about this issue. I wish they never nerfed sea witch in the first place. Thats what they said wild was supposted to be, a place where no combo is too overpowered and everything is possible. But after the changes to wild cards they basically said "we care about wild Balance aswell" so now they have to do something.
Your arguments a subjective, my point was that big priest has weak points and turn 4 Barnes is not unwinnable. And the problem you mentioned can be rearranged against any deck “the problem is the fact that for example kingsbane rogue winrate skyrockets based solely on whetether they drew their raiding party and what they will topdeck after, also it fells awful to play against because no one likes to be pushed by the same weapon over and over again.”I can see your point, but I also can see that after Barnes/res will get their nerf everyone will find another wild deck and will cry about how unbalanced it is. I agree the Barnes problem do exist, but if team 5 will decide to fix it they should not only nerf Barnes, because he is not the only problem that plagues the wild meta
Naga as well as aviana kun combos were REALLY high roll based decks, they were very lame and unfun so the decision to nerf them was correct or wild would feel staled (right now new decks do appear so wild is developing in a way blizz, want it to develope)
Being realistic Team 5 don't care about high roll cards insta-winning wild games. Case in point they just released Thekal - you think Barnes in big priest is bad, try losing to turn 2 coin Thekal double molten giant.
Wild exists because standard's kept fresh with card rotation meaning every year most players lose 3 expansions worth of cards from the pool they actually use (since most players don't bother with wild). Rather than give dust back for those cards (which is realistically not viable for the game long term) or frustrate players by having their content straight up disappear they went with a token effort to keep those old expansions in the game. That's all wild is right now - a token effort.
Lock it to be once per duel.
Here's my idea!!! Nerf Barnes to <<Omega Barnes>>
If you have 10 mana, summon a minion from your deck. It can stay at 4 mana. Eliminates early game highrolls. Still useful and powerful in a combo on turn 10 or 9 with the coin. Still allows for decks like yshaarj hunter or Renounce Warlock to exist and be viable. It could spring more use of some other weird legendaries like Madam Goya to shuffle cards back into the deck and make late game barnes more useful.
I dont think Barnes is that big of a Problem. Recently i played much wild myself and i feel like the big Priest isnt even that Powerful. Its just a ok deck (bad against every aggro deck) with game winning highroll potential.
I think High Priest Thekal into double Molten Giant at turn 3 is kinda more broken in a aggro Paladin Deck than Barnes. Its just that in wild are to many cards to make things balanced because everythink is broken af.
But dont get me wrong i woulnt mind a Barnes nerf i mean that would be 400 dust for me :).
Summon a lackey copying only effects and it´s fine. Easiest would be making it cost 6 mana but that sounds booring XD. ...
Barnes is innocent, better nerf resurrection spells. Make them resurrect minions that cost 6 mana or less for example. Priest shouldn't be able to summon 2 mana (or 4 mana) lich kings and ragnaroses, that's just stupid. Even if he plays them on curve for 8 mana and only then starts to resurrect it is still completely overwhelming. Priest can easily combine them with board clears and removals so it's extremely hard to contest his big minions. And he plays them turn after turn after turn because the amount of resurrection he has is stupid.
Big Priest has close to a 80% winrate with Barnes on curve, way more than any current or historic card. It is not fun to play against, the best option is usually to concede on the spot.
Voidcaller should probably be 5 mana as well but I believe Molten Giant is ok.
Star aligner druid wasn't even a highroll deck, it was disgustingly consistant at what it did because of all the ramp, tutors and defensive cards.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Wild has many problems, but Barnes is obviously on top tier on its own (for various reasons).
No nerf patches are ever meant to fix a whole mode forever (sadly).
So while nerfing Barnes would not fix Wild, it would still fix a major problem (actually a very old one that they refused to fix when it was already an issue in STANDARD).
(Much) better than nothing.
My argument it's not against any Deck it's just against those that rely solely on 1 single card to win.. In fact I think that Kingsbane is a horribly designed card and I'd be glad if it got nerfed into oblivion... Same goes for unbalanced cards like Voidcaller/Mad Scientist/Thing From Below etc... I think people are complaining the most about Barnes just because it's the one that feels the worst to lose to but there's no doubt that there are cards way more broken than him in Wild... Personally,even if some little snowflake gets offended on the way (Like it happened when they nerfed Saronite/Leeching Poison) I'd love to see more frequent balance patches for both formats...
How was Aviana/Kun highroll? Because I don't think Astral Druid counts,the amount of times you lost on turn 6/7 wasn't nearly as high as Naga or Barnes on curve...
"この 先は 暗い 夜道 だけが も 知らない それでも信じて 進むんだ 星が その道 を 少し でも 照らしてくをるのを"
I diddnt know that legendary had its uses. Now i can actualy put my molten gigants into paladin.
Also do u think if they are gonna nerf barnes would it be worth it to just go and buy that one wing that gives us as reward Barnes ? Cuz thats a "free" dust :)
Reminding you that it was boomsday, and star aligner Druid could finish you off on turn 7 with rolling psychmelon, may be at this point it is me who is subjective Druid is dullest class to me who only rely on getting ramp and draw early on and then pulling a combo which is annoying to me. And yeah, if blizz would do mounthly nerfs in wild or at least some “brawl type” rules for a weak or two that would make this mode fresh, maybe even banning some cards would be a great solution
In fact, Star Aligner Druid was nerfed. Twice, if we consider the brutal nerf to the Ramp package of Druid (which nearly killed the whole class).
For the wild meta nerfing barnes would be like releasing a new expansion.
And what would all the Big Priest players do? Play decks where you need to think? Suddenly playing at rank 15 lol
I used Star Alligner Druid as an example to a friend who wanted more tutor cards. Turns out drawing your entire combo + ramp is an insanely consistent way to win games.
I don't think Barnes is the main problem. Resurrection cards are too powerful. I think what they could change is, rework of those cards, so that they don't resurrect anything higher than their mana cost. I know this hurts Resurrect and Eternal Servitude, but they still have other applications in decks like OTK Priest maybe. Otherwise, 2 Resurrect into 2 Rags or Turn 5 makes no sense.
Other change I suggest is, Barnes should summon the 1/1 token with the effect of the card, and the card should be removed from the deck. You can't get a Turn 4 Y'Shaarj, but you can get a 1/1 which summons other stuff. These 1/1s will be 1 mana and this goes well with the above suggestion. And when they die, they will come back with the same effect.
Last change is to have a finite graveyard. If you have 1 Rag, you should just have one, the entire game, either on board, in deck, or in graveyard. Same with Y'Shaarj, Ysera, Lich King and etc. Unless your opponent Psychic Screams his copy to your deck, this should be the case.
See, I deeply hate big priest, and how it terrorizes me whatever the fuck I play in wild. Its boring to play against, frustrating to lose to, and etc. So take my suggestions with a grain of salt, but I think these changes are just fair.
Yeah, fix Barnes please. I had a game today where he didn’t summon Y’shaarj. Totally unacceptable.