To preface, I started playing Hearthstone with Journey to Ungoro. So my experience with the game has been mostly way over the top powr level cards like kotf heroes and crazy quests.
With this expansion along with the rotation, im seeing a lot of posts that arent so happy with the new cards, and id tend to agree. They are far less unique compared to the previous expansions and the cards are notably less powerful.
But after thinking about it, I personally feel like its a great thing. So many cool cards like the Loas and even the rush cards from warrior like Darius always seemed so cool to me but they were always overshadowed by the overpowered expansions previous to them. The game has been nearly the same since i played getting even worse with the odd and even cards.
Now that the overall power level is going down so drastically with all of the changes I feel like the game is going to change so much for the better long term. More experimenting, more unique decks, games that dont always get decided by turn 5-6.
Tldr: Im happy that the expansion is weaker and I feel confident that it is going to restore a lot more fun and creativity to the game longterm even though the cards themselves this expansion arent as “creative”
Never again a year like it was the year of the mammoth, it was fun and i enjoied the cards, but the last 3 expansion had almost no impact and thas horrible in a game that suposely to feel fresh accros the expansions.
Yes it'd be exciting if they delivered some insane new DK-level card, but that would quickly turn to "we need 2 nerf omg power creep" (see Shudderwock for reference).
I just want an enjoyable meta where a variety of decks have a chance and we get to see more than a small pool of cards as nauseum.
Never again a year like it was the year of the mammoth, it was fun and i enjoied the cards, but the last 3 expansion had almost no impact and thas horrible in a game that suposely to feel fresh accros the expansions.
genn/baku had almost no impact on the meta ?
Ok...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Never again a year like it was the year of the mammoth, it was fun and i enjoied the cards, but the last 3 expansion had almost no impact and thas horrible in a game that suposely to feel fresh accros the expansions.
genn/baku had almost no impact on the meta ?
Ok...
I said almost no impact, or 2-10 cards between 405 it's a good and refreshing meta across the year?, you must remember aswel that those 2 promoted almos no chages in their gameplans during the year of the raven which it's exactly the same as the year of the mammoth.
I guess Blizzard is kind of in a tough spot. They don't have much room for power creep without having the classic set becoming irrelevant, and there is only so much in terms of new mechanics that work with the previous sets, are new-player friendly and still strong enough to actually impact the meta.
It's been five years since the game first launched, and I agree, this feels like sort of a reset. But in my opinion, they are doing a pretty good job bringing back old(-ish) concepts with a little twist here and there, and with a big nod to the powerhouse cards of old.
Many people are complaining about the redundancy, but I don't know. I think the five year anniversary is a reasonable occasion for some throw backs, and there is still new things to play around with, like Nomi, the new Haggatha, Rhyssa. And they are adding quite a few disruption tech cards, even while enabling some crazy new (jepetto) and old (Muerte) combo decks.
Because of the powerlevel of the mammoth sets and the pre-mature rotation of Baku and Genn the meta is going to change a lot. Sure, there are going to be a few decks that come out super strong right out of the gate after the RoS launch, but I think it's going to be longer than usual before the meta settles, and that is usually a good thing, at least for those of us who like to experiment a little and don't just copy the top tier deck from HSReplay.
There is going to be a lot of complaining, as usual, but that's ok. The game is five years old, to be honest, I never played a game for this long, and that alone is an achievement. The longer I play the harder it gets for the developers to come up with something that really surprises and/or hypes me (Genn and Baku rotation certainly did the trick once more though), and maybe five years is just about how long one can play Hearthstone before it gets boring, but that doesn't mean it's become a bad game, maybe it's just those players who need to move on and make room for a new generation, who like the OP, don't remember Patreon Warrior, Undertaker, Mysterious Challenger. And for those guys the new set is certainly going to be a blast.
Never again a year like it was the year of the mammoth, it was fun and i enjoied the cards, but the last 3 expansion had almost no impact and thas horrible in a game that suposely to feel fresh accros the expansions.
genn/baku had almost no impact on the meta ?
Ok...
I said almost no impact, or 2-10 cards between 405 it's a good and refreshing meta across the year?, you must remember aswel that those 2 promoted almos no chages in their gameplans during the year of the raven which it's exactly the same as the year of the mammoth.
i was not about good and refreshing meta. I don't even really care the meta, tbh. I was just saying last 3 expansions also shaped the meta. The only stuff we were faced was Odd Paladin - Even Paladin - Odd Paladin - Even Paladin.
Btw, Gameplans during all of the heartstone seasons didn't ever changed once. It is same from beginning and there's nothing to do about this.
I can give you some examples if you want.
How can Hand lock in Vanilla and Even lock different from each other ?
Token Druid isn't still same with different minions from very beginning of the game ?
Wall Priest is a new thing ? C'mon.
Zoolock is still impactful archetype and it is from beta.
Nothing ever changed once. They all are illusions. We are still playing same gameplans with different looking cards.
So in the light of these, Join me on memes. The only true changing point of the game. Fun is not in competitive, believe me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players. ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
Never again a year like it was the year of the mammoth, it was fun and i enjoied the cards, but the last 3 expansion had almost no impact and thas horrible in a game that suposely to feel fresh accros the expansions.
genn/baku had almost no impact on the meta ?
Ok...
I said almost no impact, or 2-10 cards between 405 it's a good and refreshing meta across the year?, you must remember aswel that those 2 promoted almos no chages in their gameplans during the year of the raven which it's exactly the same as the year of the mammoth.
i was not about good and refreshing meta. I don't even really care the meta, tbh. I was just saying last 3 expansions also shaped the meta. The only stuff we were faced was Odd Paladin - Even Paladin - Odd Paladin - Even Paladin.
Btw, Gameplans during all of the heartstone seasons didn't ever changed once. It is same from beginning and there's nothing to do about this.
I can give you some examples if you want.
How can Hand lock in Vanilla and Even lock different from each other ?
Token Druid isn't still same with different minions from very beginning of the game ?
Wall Priest is a new thing ? C'mon.
Zoolock is still impactful archetype and it is from beta.
Nothing ever changed once. They all are illusions. We are still playing same gameplans with different looking cards.
So in the light of these, Join me on memes. The only true changing point of the game. Fun is not in competitive, believe me.
that is exactly what i said, The only diference is you added 2 cards to the entire meta, and no, you can't say you don't care about the meta if the only thing you can toalk about, it's how the gameplan during the meta didn't change at all, The only thing that could compete with a broken as fuck year were to completely as fuck cards as well, it doensn't chage the resto of the cards almost saw no play and those who saw it got nerfed directly or by other cards.
I guess Blizzard is kind of in a tough spot. They don't have much room for power creep without having the classic set becoming irrelevant, and there is only so much in terms of new mechanics that work with the previous sets, are new-player friendly and still strong enough to actually impact the meta.
It's been five years since the game first launched, and I agree, this feels like sort of a reset. But in my opinion, they are doing a pretty good job bringing back old(-ish) concepts with a little twist here and there, and with a big nod to the powerhouse cards of old.
Many people are complaining about the redundancy, but I don't know. I think the five year anniversary is a reasonable occasion for some throw backs, and there is still new things to play around with, like Nomi, the new Haggatha, Rhyssa. And they are adding quite a few disruption tech cards, even while enabling some crazy new (jepetto) and old (Muerte) combo decks.
Because of the powerlevel of the mammoth sets and the pre-mature rotation of Baku and Genn the meta is going to change a lot. Sure, there are going to be a few decks that come out super strong right out of the gate after the RoS launch, but I think it's going to be longer than usual before the meta settles, and that is usually a good thing, at least for those of us who like to experiment a little and don't just copy the top tier deck from HSReplay.
There is going to be a lot of complaining, as usual, but that's ok. The game is five years old, to be honest, I never played a game for this long, and that alone is an achievement. The longer I play the harder it gets for the developers to come up with something that really surprises and/or hypes me (Genn and Baku rotation certainly did the trick once more though), and maybe five years is just about how long one can play Hearthstone before it gets boring, but that doesn't mean it's become a bad game, maybe it's just those players who need to move on and make room for a new generation, who like the OP, don't remember Patreon Warrior, Undertaker, Mysterious Challenger. And for those guys the new set is certainly going to be a blast.
Never again a year like it was the year of the mammoth, it was fun and i enjoied the cards, but the last 3 expansion had almost no impact and thas horrible in a game that suposely to feel fresh accros the expansions.
genn/baku had almost no impact on the meta ?
Ok...
I said almost no impact, or 2-10 cards between 405 it's a good and refreshing meta across the year?, you must remember aswel that those 2 promoted almos no chages in their gameplans during the year of the raven which it's exactly the same as the year of the mammoth.
i was not about good and refreshing meta. I don't even really care the meta, tbh. I was just saying last 3 expansions also shaped the meta. The only stuff we were faced was Odd Paladin - Even Paladin - Odd Paladin - Even Paladin.
Btw, Gameplans during all of the heartstone seasons didn't ever changed once. It is same from beginning and there's nothing to do about this.
I can give you some examples if you want.
How can Hand lock in Vanilla and Even lock different from each other ?
Token Druid isn't still same with different minions from very beginning of the game ?
Wall Priest is a new thing ? C'mon.
Zoolock is still impactful archetype and it is from beta.
Nothing ever changed once. They all are illusions. We are still playing same gameplans with different looking cards.
So in the light of these, Join me on memes. The only true changing point of the game. Fun is not in competitive, believe me.
that is exactly what i said, The only diference is you added 2 cards to the entire meta, and no, you can't say you don't care about the meta if the only thing you can toalk about, it's how the gameplan during the meta didn't change at all, The only thing that could compete with a broken as fuck year were to completely as fuck cards as well, it doensn't chage the resto of the cards almost saw no play and those who saw it got nerfed directly or by other cards.
Of course, OP asked if you could please argue about the meta not changing ever. And list proven examples of your vast knowledge of the game and it's history.
Weaker is not better. It's more boring. People want to feel powerful when they play a game; they don't like to feel as though they are just pushing some cards around the table. The answer to having things too powerful is not to nerf the powerful thing; it's to buff other things so they are more powerful.
But Hearthstone clearly will not take this route, based on past history (never having buffed a card in their history, except maybe including more beasts in Rexxar's pool), and thus the game will probably slowly dwindle as more exciting games take over the player base.
Bottom Line: Standard hearthstone has gotten really stinkin' boring, and weak cards don't help fix that.
Just because new cards don't break the game like they did last year doesn't mean we're supposed to think they're bad design or useless. Blizzard really needs to stop this stigma that the new cards they print are busted and so far RR + this expansion + banning Genn/Baku makes for a good start.
I think there will be some broken cards in this expansion too. Blizzard simply doesn't know how to design without power creeps and such.
That said, I wish I am proven wrong.
The other issue in my opinion, with all of these expansions, is that they usually only account for 2-6 cards from a pack. This simply shows the game's limitations - it's impossible to have more than a few tier 1 decks, because every one of them requires a lot of the older cards. This makes the new stuff partly useless.
In other words, why not release just 10 cards for standard, 10 for arena, 10 for wild and 10-20 for gimmicks? Why do we have to get 100+ cards when most are useless, because the tier 1 and 2 (and 3) decks will not use more than half of them?! Why not create better interactions? Why not take some examples from community created cards (and adjust them a bit to fit whatever)?
It's great they're toning the power level down or else the game would just go bat-shit crazy. I don't think people have properly appreciated the lower power level of the year of the raven and will better appreciate it come next rotation.
To preface, I started playing Hearthstone with Journey to Ungoro. So my experience with the game has been mostly way over the top powr level cards like kotf heroes and crazy quests.
With this expansion along with the rotation, im seeing a lot of posts that arent so happy with the new cards, and id tend to agree. They are far less unique compared to the previous expansions and the cards are notably less powerful.
But after thinking about it, I personally feel like its a great thing. So many cool cards like the Loas and even the rush cards from warrior like Darius always seemed so cool to me but they were always overshadowed by the overpowered expansions previous to them. The game has been nearly the same since i played getting even worse with the odd and even cards.
Now that the overall power level is going down so drastically with all of the changes I feel like the game is going to change so much for the better long term. More experimenting, more unique decks, games that dont always get decided by turn 5-6.
Tldr: Im happy that the expansion is weaker and I feel confident that it is going to restore a lot more fun and creativity to the game longterm even though the cards themselves this expansion arent as “creative”
Thoughts?
Never again a year like it was the year of the mammoth, it was fun and i enjoied the cards, but the last 3 expansion had almost no impact and thas horrible in a game that suposely to feel fresh accros the expansions.
New and shiny does not always equal fun.
Yes it'd be exciting if they delivered some insane new DK-level card, but that would quickly turn to "we need 2 nerf omg power creep" (see Shudderwock for reference).
I just want an enjoyable meta where a variety of decks have a chance and we get to see more than a small pool of cards as nauseum.
Yeah I miss the Vanilla days too, with its simpler mechanics and value oriented control match-ups. Board control zoo-like decks etc
genn/baku had almost no impact on the meta ?
Ok...
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
I said almost no impact, or 2-10 cards between 405 it's a good and refreshing meta across the year?, you must remember aswel that those 2 promoted almos no chages in their gameplans during the year of the raven which it's exactly the same as the year of the mammoth.
The entire reason only a few cards affected the meta was because so many year of the mammoth cards were unhealthily strong
You should have been here during the release of Naxxramus...
I guess Blizzard is kind of in a tough spot. They don't have much room for power creep without having the classic set becoming irrelevant, and there is only so much in terms of new mechanics that work with the previous sets, are new-player friendly and still strong enough to actually impact the meta.
It's been five years since the game first launched, and I agree, this feels like sort of a reset. But in my opinion, they are doing a pretty good job bringing back old(-ish) concepts with a little twist here and there, and with a big nod to the powerhouse cards of old.
Many people are complaining about the redundancy, but I don't know. I think the five year anniversary is a reasonable occasion for some throw backs, and there is still new things to play around with, like Nomi, the new Haggatha, Rhyssa. And they are adding quite a few disruption tech cards, even while enabling some crazy new (jepetto) and old (Muerte) combo decks.
Because of the powerlevel of the mammoth sets and the pre-mature rotation of Baku and Genn the meta is going to change a lot. Sure, there are going to be a few decks that come out super strong right out of the gate after the RoS launch, but I think it's going to be longer than usual before the meta settles, and that is usually a good thing, at least for those of us who like to experiment a little and don't just copy the top tier deck from HSReplay.
There is going to be a lot of complaining, as usual, but that's ok. The game is five years old, to be honest, I never played a game for this long, and that alone is an achievement. The longer I play the harder it gets for the developers to come up with something that really surprises and/or hypes me (Genn and Baku rotation certainly did the trick once more though), and maybe five years is just about how long one can play Hearthstone before it gets boring, but that doesn't mean it's become a bad game, maybe it's just those players who need to move on and make room for a new generation, who like the OP, don't remember Patreon Warrior, Undertaker, Mysterious Challenger. And for those guys the new set is certainly going to be a blast.
The world is burning.
i was not about good and refreshing meta. I don't even really care the meta, tbh. I was just saying last 3 expansions also shaped the meta. The only stuff we were faced was Odd Paladin - Even Paladin - Odd Paladin - Even Paladin.
Btw, Gameplans during all of the heartstone seasons didn't ever changed once. It is same from beginning and there's nothing to do about this.
I can give you some examples if you want.
How can Hand lock in Vanilla and Even lock different from each other ?
Token Druid isn't still same with different minions from very beginning of the game ?
Wall Priest is a new thing ? C'mon.
Zoolock is still impactful archetype and it is from beta.
Nothing ever changed once. They all are illusions. We are still playing same gameplans with different looking cards.
So in the light of these, Join me on memes. The only true changing point of the game. Fun is not in competitive, believe me.
Memedeck-seeker. Always tries to build new decks. Hates tournements, streamers, netdecks and poor-o players.
ah, but a tournement mode could be great !!!
that is exactly what i said, The only diference is you added 2 cards to the entire meta, and no, you can't say you don't care about the meta if the only thing you can toalk about, it's how the gameplan during the meta didn't change at all, The only thing that could compete with a broken as fuck year were to completely as fuck cards as well, it doensn't chage the resto of the cards almost saw no play and those who saw it got nerfed directly or by other cards.
Of course, you dump like 3 similar decks from now and the past and your point is proven...
Where's Midrange Shaman, Patron Warrior, Pirate Warrior, Cubelock, Midrange Druid, Freeze Mage and many other decks?
This
Of course, OP asked if you could please argue about the meta not changing ever. And list proven examples of your vast knowledge of the game and it's history.
Weaker is not better. It's more boring. People want to feel powerful when they play a game; they don't like to feel as though they are just pushing some cards around the table. The answer to having things too powerful is not to nerf the powerful thing; it's to buff other things so they are more powerful.
But Hearthstone clearly will not take this route, based on past history (never having buffed a card in their history, except maybe including more beasts in Rexxar's pool), and thus the game will probably slowly dwindle as more exciting games take over the player base.
Bottom Line: Standard hearthstone has gotten really stinkin' boring, and weak cards don't help fix that.
Just because new cards don't break the game like they did last year doesn't mean we're supposed to think they're bad design or useless. Blizzard really needs to stop this stigma that the new cards they print are busted and so far RR + this expansion + banning Genn/Baku makes for a good start.
I think there will be some broken cards in this expansion too. Blizzard simply doesn't know how to design without power creeps and such.
That said, I wish I am proven wrong.
The other issue in my opinion, with all of these expansions, is that they usually only account for 2-6 cards from a pack. This simply shows the game's limitations - it's impossible to have more than a few tier 1 decks, because every one of them requires a lot of the older cards. This makes the new stuff partly useless.
In other words, why not release just 10 cards for standard, 10 for arena, 10 for wild and 10-20 for gimmicks? Why do we have to get 100+ cards when most are useless, because the tier 1 and 2 (and 3) decks will not use more than half of them?! Why not create better interactions? Why not take some examples from community created cards (and adjust them a bit to fit whatever)?
Why why why... Well, we know why...
Max($$) + min(work) = infinity
It's great they're toning the power level down or else the game would just go bat-shit crazy. I don't think people have properly appreciated the lower power level of the year of the raven and will better appreciate it come next rotation.
Badly designed cards are those that break Wild but not impactful in standard (Referring to the new Big Priests toys)