It's normal for CCGs to reprint or modify old effects, especially if they were liked by the community or underpowered. Recreating old ideas ISN'T running out of ideas. Tree of Life was really bad card that didn't see play, the idea got recycled and printed on new Paladin Dragon legendary. Dirty Rat was beloved by community card, so they printed new Mech card that has similiar effect. Everyone loves Rafaam, so they got him back into the spotlight. I'm pretty sad that so much criticism is going against Blizzard for doing a normal thing for CCGs to do... Magic for example doesn't get so much hate for doing this, does it?
I really like what they are doing. Almost all cards are great in my opinion. This could be one of the best metas so far. Hearthstone doesn't need tons of cards with new mechanics every expansion.
I really hope we will get an inspire card this year!
So the people who don't enjoy reprints shouldn't voice their opinion because reprints are normal and it makes you sad ?
Some re used effect are very well done (Hecklebot, Rafaam) some are just boring, literal reprints (blastmaster boom) or just push further a broken archetype in Wild (Mass resurrection) . Many times Blizzard claimed that Standard format was supposed to feel fresh and new every rotation. It's not going to work if they just reprint core synergy cards of rotating archetypes.
I think it's a fair criticism and I'm sorry it makes you sad.
Agreed, I'm actually really excited to see old effects make comebacks and effects that were rarely seen because the cards they were attached to were not good enough see play. Don't get all the negativity, the meta will still be refreshed with new cards and archetypes even if some card effects are samey.
If you think reprints are normal - that means you are ok with being cheated.
"Ohh we created a bad card, oh no, how about you get 10 duplicates in your packs and then in a years time we will reprint this card to be of good power so you can get it in packs again!”
They don't want to buff cards - make them playable, because that's how you can spend gold, dust, money again and again!👍
If you think reprints are normal - that means you are ok with being cheated.
"Ohh we created a bad card, oh no, how about you get 10 duplicates in your packs and then in a years time we will reprint this card to be of good power so you can get it in packs again!”
They don't want to buff cards - make them playable, because that's how you can spend gold, dust, money again and again!👍
There are no reprints in Hearthstone. Just recycled or modified effects. It's a reality of big card games with hundreds of cards released each years. Sometimes cards will be very similar.
So the people who don't enjoy reprints shouldn't voice their opinion because reprints are normal and it makes you sad ?
Some re used effect are very well done (Hecklebot, Rafaam) some are just boring, literal reprints (blastmaster boom) or just push further a broken archetype in Wild (Mass resurrection) . Many times Blizzard claimed that Standard format was supposed to feel fresh and new every rotation. It's not going to work if they just reprint core synergy cards of rotating archetypes.
I think it's a fair criticism and I'm sorry it makes you sad.
Yeah, I also see some fair arguments, but most comments I see don't have them and just state that Blizz ran out of ideas. This makes me sad, not opinion with at least one argument in it.
I'd prefer to see new mechanics. All the treats should get "treant" race, like the Ancients are treants basically but are not counted towards some cards reductions. The "Undead" race has to be added asap. Then on top of it we would surely benefit from classes like "assassin", "warrior", and there could be so much more, because triclass cards are awesome and everybody enjoyed playing them, just imagine some cards from old expansions and classic set getting additional synergy that wouldn't be awesome?
If you think reprints are normal - that means you are ok with being cheated.
"Ohh we created a bad card, oh no, how about you get 10 duplicates in your packs and then in a years time we will reprint this card to be of good power so you can get it in packs again!”
They don't want to buff cards - make them playable, because that's how you can spend gold, dust, money again and again!👍
You are missing the link between your argument and the conclusion. Yes, these decisions force you to spend money, time, and/or resources. Controlling the amounts of these is an integral part of the game's economics. How do you jump from that to you being cheated?
Magic for example doesn't get so much hate for doing this, does it?
That's because in Magic the Gathering, if you already have an old card that was just reprinted, you can play with it, you don't need the new version. Blizzard is not literally reprinting old cards like Wizards of the Coast usually does, they are just making new ones similar to already existing ones, that's all (ok, ok, Wizards of the Coasts does that too, but they have been in the business for so long that them doing such a thing is completely acceptable and understandable by almost everyone). But do I care about it? No, not really, at least not yet, because we still haven't seen the full set and even with this not so creative approach things can turn really interesting (especially because of the rotation ;)).
IRL card games are essentially forced to re-print old cards, or design subtle variations on old cards. There are about three dozen different versions of White Knight in MtG - a "WW, 2/2" with a couple special abilities, often including "Protection from Black". There are more than three dozen different versions of Lightning Bolt. Lots and lots of versions of just about every kind of card you can imagine, often including functional or identical reprints. It's not exactly a big deal, and figuring out if the latest version of White Knight, Lightning Bolt etc, is good enough to see play, good enough to splash into a deck, good enough for the sideboard, etc, understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the new versions of the cards, or understanding how a direct reprint might play differently in an entirely different meta-game from the first time the card was printed - all of these things are kind of integral to bothering to play a CCG at all.
It's also important to observe that none of the new cards are actually reprints. The new Paladin Legendary isn't a reprint of the Druid spell, Hecklebot isn't a reprint of Dirty Rat - even the new Dr Boom is different from the old one, and requires that an entire deck be built around it. That's kind of a big difference, to put it mildly - all because of a subtle design choice which forces a functionally similar new card to be played in a different kind of deck than the older design upon which it was based. "Good job, Blizzard - thanks for putting a new spin on an old card . . ."
Opinion piece = if a large part of the social media community weren't intent on finger-blasting their iPhones at every new opportunity where they can pretend to be outraged, they might bother noticing how much bullshit they are actually posting.
I enjoy all mechanics: inspire, old god's, triclass, forbidden, quests, races (not you overkill). I think supporting old mechanics is also very good, I was stunned when in interview they opposed it, what of course contradicts to what we see now.
I personally think the design space is very vast, they have tremendous opportunities including supporting old mechanics. It is just sad to see that some of the cards have very little changes (power creep or same stats, the thing that happened to ice spell that powercrepped the old one) considering the opportunities.
But hey here we are here, only 135 cards, bounded by required amounts of legendary, epic, rates and common no chance to take a step in a different direction. More better? No, but boundaries limit design space.
Also please new mode with selected expansions like arena is going to be, please.
So the people who don't enjoy reprints shouldn't voice their opinion because reprints are normal and it makes you sad ?
Some re used effect are very well done (Hecklebot, Rafaam) some are just boring, literal reprints (blastmaster boom) or just push further a broken archetype in Wild (Mass resurrection) . Many times Blizzard claimed that Standard format was supposed to feel fresh and new every rotation. It's not going to work if they just reprint core synergy cards of rotating archetypes.
I think it's a fair criticism and I'm sorry it makes you sad.
The OP didn't state that the critics aren't allowed to voice their opinion. But the OP IS voicing their opinion on their opinion.
That is, you're allowed to speak out. But I'm allowed to speak out against you.
As for what you bring up, that is a concern I can see coming. However, I don't see that actually happening yet in the current set. For example, the original Dr. Boom was a card used in every deck that went past turn 7 as he was one of the view ways you could recover the board while offering a possible avenue to winning. He was also literally the only usable 7 drop in the game at the time and almost the only usable 7+ drop. Late game cards SUCKED in the early years.
THIS Boom, while he has a similar mechanic, he's specifically locked to one specific deck: Bomb Warrior. Instead of being a generalized board-clear/late game threat, this boom is a secondary win condition. If your bomb deck is working well he's worthless as you are too busy seeing your opponent explode. He's there to cover the times when RNG makes your bombs bad tempo by recovering the board and recoving the lost pressure you had by playing 3/3s that do nothing and meh weapons. It's taking an old mechanic and finding an interesting new niche for him.
And that's sort of the point. Spare parts were near worthless things you just used to power up spell synergies (read: auctioneer food) while lackies appropriate decks that rely on small minion synergies like buff warlock. Twinspell is trying to move magic classes from clear and burst strategies to more long-from value generators, which leans more for a fatigue style of play.
Will it all work? Of course not. But the things that do are trying to take old mechanics and bring them up in a new way. Combined with a year's worth of cards that will go from almost 0 play to the only game in town and you have quite a different meta from the past, which is the point.
That said, I can see the reason to fear what you bring up, especially since we haven't seen everything in the set yet. However, a lot of the folks the OP is talking about isn't taking your view point. Most seem to fall into the camps of:
1. I want something new and shiny! It's not new enough. *end*
2. Frozen throne and Kobolds were great! Why aren't we doing more of that!?
The first is less a worry about a return of old metas and more of some desperate desire for 'the new rush' leads to arguments like making massive changes to cards every week.. just to 'shake things up'. The second has threads with 50 pages of articles why that's not a good idea. Both make the OP, and myself, sad. We wouldn't be so sad if most critiques were more of what you bring up, even if I don't think we're going that route.
I'd prefer to see new mechanics. All the treats should get "treant" race, like the Ancients are treants basically but are not counted towards some cards reductions. The "Undead" race has to be added asap. Then on top of it we would surely benefit from classes like "assassin", "warrior", and there could be so much more, because triclass cards are awesome and everybody enjoyed playing them, just imagine some cards from old expansions and classic set getting additional synergy that wouldn't be awesome?
If a treant race was made, Ancients would NOT be a part of it. They deliberately decides which were 'treants' for balancing sake. In fact, we honestly have a 'treant' race, just without the bottom tag. Honestly I think they should just go ahead and add it, but it wouldn't make any changes to what's going on.
There's no point in adding an undead race just for the sake of adding it. What specifically would they DO that is essentially 'new' and require synergy between them? Don't say 'they are linked to the graveyard" since 1. we already have that in spades without needing specific undead tags and 2. if anything we're a little 'sick' of the graveyard right now given the reception of Mass Res.
There's gallons, GALLONS of threads dictacting why adding a class would be a bad idea. Read on those before I go write yet another 10 page essay rehashing it. Simply put, no we aren't getting new classes, and don't need them, and we already did 'skill ups' on original classes via death Knights.
And I lived through the triclass era. There are three utterly UTTERLY hated eras in hearthstone: the post-boomsday era, the Undertaker era, and post-Mean Streets (prepatch-Witchwood was about to go that way if the patch didn't come soon enough).
I know most people either forgot or never lived through it, but the #1 biggest problem back then wasn't the OP nature of the decks as they weren't OP (yes I include Jade. YES jade wasn't OP!) but in how 'samey' it felt since so many classes were using the same blasted cards or else cards that did the same thing overall. Having three classes all spamming jades was NOT a good idea. Having the entire meta either be "spam pirates", "spam jades", or "pray for Reno" was NOT a good idea.
And to avoid a flame war over a misinterpretation jade wasn't OP. It was a piece of trash horribly made concept of a deck that was as mindless as you can get and rendered an entire archetype of decks worthless. In some ways, it was WORSE than being OP (compare to Patron which WAS OP). Mean streets taught us a lot about how what makes a good meta by showing that 'raw power' was less important than variety and fun.. by showing us a meta devoid of variety and fun.
Magic for example doesn't get so much hate for doing this, does it?
That's because in Magic the Gathering, if you already have an old card that was just reprinted, you can play with it, you don't need the new version. Blizzard is not literally reprinting old cards like Wizards of the Coast usually does, they are just making new ones similar to already existing ones, that's all (ok, ok, Wizards of the Coasts does that too, but they have been in the business for so long that them doing such a thing is completely acceptable and understandable by almost everyone). But do I care about it? No, not really, at least not yet, because we still haven't seen the full set and even with this not so creative approach things can turn really interesting (especially because of the rotation ;)).
In summary: Reprinting old cards isn't what Blizzard is doing.
Blizzard is making cards that are similar to older cards, something other well established companies have been doing for decades successfully, but we aren't sure if Blizzard can pull it off as they are still relatively new.
And it's way too early to judge whether they are taking something old and making it new and interesting or whether the screwed up.
I wouldn't consider these reprints, it's not like they are giving hunter a new 1 mana spell named arcane arrow that deals 2 damage to a target, they are recycling old mechanics, and honestly i think it is making for some interesting cards
I'd prefer to see new mechanics. All the treats should get "treant" race, like the Ancients are treants basically but are not counted towards some cards reductions. The "Undead" race has to be added asap. Then on top of it we would surely benefit from classes like "assassin", "warrior", and there could be so much more, because triclass cards are awesome and everybody enjoyed playing them, just imagine some cards from old expansions and classic set getting additional synergy that wouldn't be awesome?
Treant and undead are bad tribes for WoW lore. Especially undead. Plants, spirits, skeletons are what I consider logical next tribes.
I always thought that Un'goro was made with a future plant tribe in mind... It had a lot of plants, It had plant adapt option, it had plant generating plant, It even had plants heavy class (Rogue with 4!!! of them)... I don't understand why they never went for plants, It's like they changed their mind because of some reason.
a) They are not reprinting them they are just vaguely similar and some people are just going crazy about it for some reason.
b) If something is normal doesn't mean it is right, in fact, half of the things that are normal nkwardays are just plain wrong and stupid, soyour argument is just double false
if you have to do reprints in a game that is barely 6 years old where you have waaaay more possibilities with effects and mechanics that you could never achieve in paper card games is just a shameful display and boring af
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It's normal for CCGs to reprint or modify old effects, especially if they were liked by the community or underpowered. Recreating old ideas ISN'T running out of ideas. Tree of Life was really bad card that didn't see play, the idea got recycled and printed on new Paladin Dragon legendary. Dirty Rat was beloved by community card, so they printed new Mech card that has similiar effect. Everyone loves Rafaam, so they got him back into the spotlight. I'm pretty sad that so much criticism is going against Blizzard for doing a normal thing for CCGs to do... Magic for example doesn't get so much hate for doing this, does it?
My fanmade expansion! (Click on pack to open packs with my cards)
I really like what they are doing. Almost all cards are great in my opinion. This could be one of the best metas so far. Hearthstone doesn't need tons of cards with new mechanics every expansion.
I really hope we will get an inspire card this year!
Hell, it's what i wanted them to do. So many cool effects being bound to Wild is a shame, glad these are making a comeback for two years.
So the people who don't enjoy reprints shouldn't voice their opinion because reprints are normal and it makes you sad ?
Some re used effect are very well done (Hecklebot, Rafaam) some are just boring, literal reprints (blastmaster boom) or just push further a broken archetype in Wild (Mass resurrection) . Many times Blizzard claimed that Standard format was supposed to feel fresh and new every rotation. It's not going to work if they just reprint core synergy cards of rotating archetypes.
I think it's a fair criticism and I'm sorry it makes you sad.
Agreed, I'm actually really excited to see old effects make comebacks and effects that were rarely seen because the cards they were attached to were not good enough see play. Don't get all the negativity, the meta will still be refreshed with new cards and archetypes even if some card effects are samey.
If you think reprints are normal - that means you are ok with being cheated.
"Ohh we created a bad card, oh no, how about you get 10 duplicates in your packs and then in a years time we will reprint this card to be of good power so you can get it in packs again!”
They don't want to buff cards - make them playable, because that's how you can spend gold, dust, money again and again!👍
The goal of all life is death.
There are no reprints in Hearthstone. Just recycled or modified effects. It's a reality of big card games with hundreds of cards released each years. Sometimes cards will be very similar.
Yeah, I also see some fair arguments, but most comments I see don't have them and just state that Blizz ran out of ideas. This makes me sad, not opinion with at least one argument in it.
My fanmade expansion! (Click on pack to open packs with my cards)
I'd prefer to see new mechanics. All the treats should get "treant" race, like the Ancients are treants basically but are not counted towards some cards reductions. The "Undead" race has to be added asap. Then on top of it we would surely benefit from classes like "assassin", "warrior", and there could be so much more, because triclass cards are awesome and everybody enjoyed playing them, just imagine some cards from old expansions and classic set getting additional synergy that wouldn't be awesome?
The goal of all life is death.
Ironbark protector is a treant too! Also the small sprouts tokens 1\1s are treants
The goal of all life is death.
You are missing the link between your argument and the conclusion. Yes, these decisions force you to spend money, time, and/or resources. Controlling the amounts of these is an integral part of the game's economics. How do you jump from that to you being cheated?
That's because in Magic the Gathering, if you already have an old card that was just reprinted, you can play with it, you don't need the new version. Blizzard is not literally reprinting old cards like Wizards of the Coast usually does, they are just making new ones similar to already existing ones, that's all (ok, ok, Wizards of the Coasts does that too, but they have been in the business for so long that them doing such a thing is completely acceptable and understandable by almost everyone). But do I care about it? No, not really, at least not yet, because we still haven't seen the full set and even with this not so creative approach things can turn really interesting (especially because of the rotation ;)).
IRL card games are essentially forced to re-print old cards, or design subtle variations on old cards. There are about three dozen different versions of White Knight in MtG - a "WW, 2/2" with a couple special abilities, often including "Protection from Black". There are more than three dozen different versions of Lightning Bolt. Lots and lots of versions of just about every kind of card you can imagine, often including functional or identical reprints. It's not exactly a big deal, and figuring out if the latest version of White Knight, Lightning Bolt etc, is good enough to see play, good enough to splash into a deck, good enough for the sideboard, etc, understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the new versions of the cards, or understanding how a direct reprint might play differently in an entirely different meta-game from the first time the card was printed - all of these things are kind of integral to bothering to play a CCG at all.
It's also important to observe that none of the new cards are actually reprints. The new Paladin Legendary isn't a reprint of the Druid spell, Hecklebot isn't a reprint of Dirty Rat - even the new Dr Boom is different from the old one, and requires that an entire deck be built around it. That's kind of a big difference, to put it mildly - all because of a subtle design choice which forces a functionally similar new card to be played in a different kind of deck than the older design upon which it was based. "Good job, Blizzard - thanks for putting a new spin on an old card . . ."
Opinion piece = if a large part of the social media community weren't intent on finger-blasting their iPhones at every new opportunity where they can pretend to be outraged, they might bother noticing how much bullshit they are actually posting.
I enjoy all mechanics: inspire, old god's, triclass, forbidden, quests, races (not you overkill). I think supporting old mechanics is also very good, I was stunned when in interview they opposed it, what of course contradicts to what we see now.
I personally think the design space is very vast, they have tremendous opportunities including supporting old mechanics. It is just sad to see that some of the cards have very little changes (power creep or same stats, the thing that happened to ice spell that powercrepped the old one) considering the opportunities.
But hey here we are here, only 135 cards, bounded by required amounts of legendary, epic, rates and common no chance to take a step in a different direction. More better? No, but boundaries limit design space.
Also please new mode with selected expansions like arena is going to be, please.
The goal of all life is death.
I think maybe people should accept HS is an old game now, and you're gonna see recycled ideas, just like others have pointed out with MTG.
The OP didn't state that the critics aren't allowed to voice their opinion. But the OP IS voicing their opinion on their opinion.
That is, you're allowed to speak out. But I'm allowed to speak out against you.
As for what you bring up, that is a concern I can see coming. However, I don't see that actually happening yet in the current set. For example, the original Dr. Boom was a card used in every deck that went past turn 7 as he was one of the view ways you could recover the board while offering a possible avenue to winning. He was also literally the only usable 7 drop in the game at the time and almost the only usable 7+ drop. Late game cards SUCKED in the early years.
THIS Boom, while he has a similar mechanic, he's specifically locked to one specific deck: Bomb Warrior. Instead of being a generalized board-clear/late game threat, this boom is a secondary win condition. If your bomb deck is working well he's worthless as you are too busy seeing your opponent explode. He's there to cover the times when RNG makes your bombs bad tempo by recovering the board and recoving the lost pressure you had by playing 3/3s that do nothing and meh weapons. It's taking an old mechanic and finding an interesting new niche for him.
And that's sort of the point. Spare parts were near worthless things you just used to power up spell synergies (read: auctioneer food) while lackies appropriate decks that rely on small minion synergies like buff warlock. Twinspell is trying to move magic classes from clear and burst strategies to more long-from value generators, which leans more for a fatigue style of play.
Will it all work? Of course not. But the things that do are trying to take old mechanics and bring them up in a new way. Combined with a year's worth of cards that will go from almost 0 play to the only game in town and you have quite a different meta from the past, which is the point.
That said, I can see the reason to fear what you bring up, especially since we haven't seen everything in the set yet. However, a lot of the folks the OP is talking about isn't taking your view point. Most seem to fall into the camps of:
1. I want something new and shiny! It's not new enough. *end*
2. Frozen throne and Kobolds were great! Why aren't we doing more of that!?
The first is less a worry about a return of old metas and more of some desperate desire for 'the new rush' leads to arguments like making massive changes to cards every week.. just to 'shake things up'. The second has threads with 50 pages of articles why that's not a good idea. Both make the OP, and myself, sad. We wouldn't be so sad if most critiques were more of what you bring up, even if I don't think we're going that route.
If a treant race was made, Ancients would NOT be a part of it. They deliberately decides which were 'treants' for balancing sake. In fact, we honestly have a 'treant' race, just without the bottom tag. Honestly I think they should just go ahead and add it, but it wouldn't make any changes to what's going on.
There's no point in adding an undead race just for the sake of adding it. What specifically would they DO that is essentially 'new' and require synergy between them? Don't say 'they are linked to the graveyard" since 1. we already have that in spades without needing specific undead tags and 2. if anything we're a little 'sick' of the graveyard right now given the reception of Mass Res.
There's gallons, GALLONS of threads dictacting why adding a class would be a bad idea. Read on those before I go write yet another 10 page essay rehashing it. Simply put, no we aren't getting new classes, and don't need them, and we already did 'skill ups' on original classes via death Knights.
And I lived through the triclass era. There are three utterly UTTERLY hated eras in hearthstone: the post-boomsday era, the Undertaker era, and post-Mean Streets (prepatch-Witchwood was about to go that way if the patch didn't come soon enough).
I know most people either forgot or never lived through it, but the #1 biggest problem back then wasn't the OP nature of the decks as they weren't OP (yes I include Jade. YES jade wasn't OP!) but in how 'samey' it felt since so many classes were using the same blasted cards or else cards that did the same thing overall. Having three classes all spamming jades was NOT a good idea. Having the entire meta either be "spam pirates", "spam jades", or "pray for Reno" was NOT a good idea.
And to avoid a flame war over a misinterpretation jade wasn't OP. It was a piece of trash horribly made concept of a deck that was as mindless as you can get and rendered an entire archetype of decks worthless. In some ways, it was WORSE than being OP (compare to Patron which WAS OP). Mean streets taught us a lot about how what makes a good meta by showing that 'raw power' was less important than variety and fun.. by showing us a meta devoid of variety and fun.
In summary: Reprinting old cards isn't what Blizzard is doing.
Blizzard is making cards that are similar to older cards, something other well established companies have been doing for decades successfully, but we aren't sure if Blizzard can pull it off as they are still relatively new.
And it's way too early to judge whether they are taking something old and making it new and interesting or whether the screwed up.
/thread?
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I wouldn't consider these reprints, it's not like they are giving hunter a new 1 mana spell named arcane arrow that deals 2 damage to a target, they are recycling old mechanics, and honestly i think it is making for some interesting cards
Hearthstone is yet to do a single reprint.
Treant and undead are bad tribes for WoW lore. Especially undead.
Plants, spirits, skeletons are what I consider logical next tribes.
I always thought that Un'goro was made with a future plant tribe in mind... It had a lot of plants, It had plant adapt option, it had plant generating plant, It even had plants heavy class (Rogue with 4!!! of them)... I don't understand why they never went for plants, It's like they changed their mind because of some reason.
a) They are not reprinting them they are just vaguely similar and some people are just going crazy about it for some reason.
b) If something is normal doesn't mean it is right, in fact, half of the things that are normal nkwardays are just plain wrong and stupid, soyour argument is just double false
if you have to do reprints in a game that is barely 6 years old where you have waaaay more possibilities with effects and mechanics that you could never achieve in paper card games is just a shameful display and boring af