Yes, Aggro has and will always be busted and Combo is dependant on the meta. But control has never been good ever since frozen throne came out (with the exception of odd warrior). I've almost never seen a tier list with a tier 1 control deck. And no Cubelock does not count as control, because doomguard + cube is more like midrange / combo. So honestly I'd like to see more control tools, because it will force players to play for value instead of insakilling someone or getting lethal by turn 6 with aggro.
Exactly this, why do people even think Control beats everything? In Wild I can understand, Control decks are strong, especially Reno decks, but the last Control deck that I played that was really strong in Standard was Control Warlock when Kobolds came out.
Mojomaster Zihi is good enough to stop combo, any Mecha'thun or Hakkar or paladin dk decks. Or you want a card that autowins u a game, because u just play this card in your deck?
I dunno Mojomaster Zihi is good, but he only stalls 4 turns max, and some druid decks can just completely pass that. I think just a reprint of deathlord or dirty rat would be what the OP wants
Mojomaster is not to hold your opponent's combo to have more turns to kill him - its all about timing, when to play Zihi. Most druid's combos are about fatigue and they usually do combo when they have 1 card left in their deck, so its the perfect time to play Mojomaster, because they can't play Hakkar or Mecha'thun, but the most interesting part for me when u play Zihi AFTER Hakkar combo (and don't kill auctioneer) and watch how combo deck becomes honorable sudoku deck. Most druids just concede after this.
I hate it when people reply with bullshit like "you want auto-win cards". What gave people the impression that a card like Dirty Rat automatically wins the game? Most combo decks can still fuck you up if you don't pull the right minion/don't have removal for the pulled minion. Remember Star Aligner Druid? You could pull Aviana, Brann Bronzebeard, Witchwood Piper or Ancient Brewmaster they could still beat you easily. You pull a Faceless Manipulator against Malygos Druid, they can still beat you, you can pull Raza the Chained and still die to Prophet Velen, and vice-versa. Dirty Rat is not an auto-win card, it requires good timing, luck and most of the time setup with Zola the Gorgon/Brann Bronzebeard. So yes, a netural card like Dirty Rat is needed, it's not auto-win just cause you noobs got lucky a few times and highrolled.
You're so damn right. Dirty Rat requires the best of timing, luck and knowledge of the enemy deck. It's not autowin, the chance you pull out a combo piece just gets higher the more knowledge you have. Really something like dirty rat chance effect would be a nice addition, not something like destroy the highest cost minion in your opponent's hand or something like that. There should be skill and chance involved.
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- "No matter what. You keep finding something to fight for"
I hate it when people reply with bullshit like "you want auto-win cards". What gave people the impression that a card like Dirty Rat automatically wins the game? Most combo decks can still fuck you up if you don't pull the right minion/don't have removal for the pulled minion. Remember Star Aligner Druid? You could pull Aviana, Brann Bronzebeard, Witchwood Piper or Ancient Brewmaster they could still beat you easily. You pull a Faceless Manipulator against Malygos Druid, they can still beat you, you can pull Raza the Chained and still die to Prophet Velen, and vice-versa. Dirty Rat is not an auto-win card, it requires good timing, luck and most of the time setup with Zola the Gorgon/Brann Bronzebeard. So yes, a netural card like Dirty Rat is needed, it's not auto-win just cause you noobs got lucky a few times and highrolled.
I didn't mean that Dirty Rat autowins the game, i absolutely agree with u about Star Aligner druid, but the whole thread looks like people don't want to think and just want to play "auto-win" cards
I promise you cards like Dirty Rat were auto-win. I can't tell you how many times concede happened when a combo piece was pulled. I don't want cards like that, but I do want a cheaper option than a legendary to counter.
I promise you cards like Dirty Rat were auto-win. I can't tell you how many times concede happened when a combo piece was pulled. I don't want cards like that, but I do want a cheaper option than a legendary to counter.
They weren't auto-win, auto-win would imply that the person had exactly 1 minion in their hand at the right exact moment. I think that the best way to remake such a card, is massive increase to his cost. If dirty rat suddenly costed 8, or 9 mana (With stats adjusted). Control might still play him, and moreover he couldn't be comboed with a board clear. Then you couldn't wait for mecha'thun druid to only have his combo in hand, unless you could kill it on board. It might give you chances vs toggwaggle and mecha'thun priest, but even then. People want chances to win. Polarized matchups are unfun and dirty rat was not an auto-win. Look at all the pro-players who wish for another dirty rat.
I promise you cards like Dirty Rat were auto-win. I can't tell you how many times concede happened when a combo piece was pulled. I don't want cards like that, but I do want a cheaper option than a legendary to counter.
They weren't auto-win, auto-win would imply that the person had exactly 1 minion in their hand at the right exact moment. I think that the best way to remake such a card, is massive increase to his cost. If dirty rat suddenly costed 8, or 9 mana (With stats adjusted). Control might still play him, and moreover he couldn't be comboed with a board clear. Then you couldn't wait for mecha'thun druid to only have his combo in hand, unless you could kill it on board. It might give you chances vs toggwaggle and mecha'thun priest, but even then. People want chances to win. Polarized matchups are unfun and dirty rat was not an auto-win. Look at all the pro-players who wish for another dirty rat.
Ok so I just gave personal history of playing the card, getting the combo out, and then the opponent conceding. I think we call that an auto-win. If you are smart with cards like that you can win the game. No questions asked. Even then there is the rng side of playing the card where you just so happen to yoink the card out of 2-3 others by good fortune. Your post doesn't make sense I had to read it two to three times just to gather your message. It isn't auto-win, but its strong enough of a card to where you want it adjusted so it can't be played in succession with removal? Is your sentence I highlighted sarcastic, poor english, or your argument collapsing on itself? All three?
Mojomaster Zihi is good enough to stop combo, any Mecha'thun or Hakkar or paladin dk decks. Or you want a card that autowins u a game, because u just play this card in your deck?
this
However, I don't think Zihi is an AUTO WIN against combo decks like Mecha'thun. It just slows them down a bit but it helps a ton against a deck like Mecha'Thun.
I'm tired of people saying that control players want to win every matchups - we want a fair chance in a matchup that completely destroy us!
Look at it this way: Aggro can win against combo and control, but control and combo can also win against aggro. Control can't win against combo unless the combo player is stupid and plays a combo piece for no reason (happens from time to time).
Mojomaster Zihi is good enough to stop combo, any Mecha'thun or Hakkar or paladin dk decks. Or you want a card that autowins u a game, because u just play this card in your deck?
I dunno Mojomaster Zihi is good, but he only stalls 4 turns max, and some druid decks can just completely pass that. I think just a reprint of deathlord or dirty rat would be what the OP wants
Mojomaster is not to hold your opponent's combo to have more turns to kill him - its all about timing, when to play Zihi. Most druid's combos are about fatigue and they usually do combo when they have 1 card left in their deck, so its the perfect time to play Mojomaster, because they can't play Hakkar or Mecha'thun, but the most interesting part for me when u play Zihi AFTER Hakkar combo (and don't kill auctioneer) and watch how combo deck becomes honorable sudoku deck. Most druids just concede after this.
Exactly! Timing on Zihi is everything - won me quite a few matches!
Zihi is very useful in decks you might not expect to see. For example, its pretty decent in Quest Druid because of the fact that once you complete the quest, you don't need much mana to summon minions so you can just play Zihi right away. Still has to be timed perfectly though.
There is a counter combo decks... Aggro.
Exactly this, why do people even think Control beats everything? In Wild I can understand, Control decks are strong, especially Reno decks, but the last Control deck that I played that was really strong in Standard was Control Warlock when Kobolds came out.
Idk about you but aggro shits on combo.
- I play a lot of combo decks and aggro is almost impossible to win against sometimes
Aggro is always good in the meta but I do agree control suffers from combo decks a lot
Me? Gongaga.
Skulking Geist.
Makes every combo deck cry except for Warlock Meca'thun.
Which Mojomaster Zihi deals with pretty well.
Also, the easiest way to beat Warlock Meca'thun is to whittle their health away. As long as they are below 5 health, you've won.
Mojomaster is not to hold your opponent's combo to have more turns to kill him - its all about timing, when to play Zihi. Most druid's combos are about fatigue and they usually do combo when they have 1 card left in their deck, so its the perfect time to play Mojomaster, because they can't play Hakkar or Mecha'thun, but the most interesting part for me when u play Zihi AFTER Hakkar combo (and don't kill auctioneer) and watch how combo deck becomes honorable sudoku deck. Most druids just concede after this.
You're so damn right. Dirty Rat requires the best of timing, luck and knowledge of the enemy deck. It's not autowin, the chance you pull out a combo piece just gets higher the more knowledge you have. Really something like dirty rat chance effect would be a nice addition, not something like destroy the highest cost minion in your opponent's hand or something like that. There should be skill and chance involved.
- "No matter what. You keep finding something to fight for"
I didn't mean that Dirty Rat autowins the game, i absolutely agree with u about Star Aligner druid, but the whole thread looks like people don't want to think and just want to play "auto-win" cards
I promise you cards like Dirty Rat were auto-win. I can't tell you how many times concede happened when a combo piece was pulled. I don't want cards like that, but I do want a cheaper option than a legendary to counter.
They weren't auto-win, auto-win would imply that the person had exactly 1 minion in their hand at the right exact moment. I think that the best way to remake such a card, is massive increase to his cost. If dirty rat suddenly costed 8, or 9 mana (With stats adjusted). Control might still play him, and moreover he couldn't be comboed with a board clear. Then you couldn't wait for mecha'thun druid to only have his combo in hand, unless you could kill it on board. It might give you chances vs toggwaggle and mecha'thun priest, but even then. People want chances to win. Polarized matchups are unfun and dirty rat was not an auto-win. Look at all the pro-players who wish for another dirty rat.
Patience, my friend, the developers said few weeks ago they are up to something similar to this fella
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Ok so I just gave personal history of playing the card, getting the combo out, and then the opponent conceding. I think we call that an auto-win. If you are smart with cards like that you can win the game. No questions asked. Even then there is the rng side of playing the card where you just so happen to yoink the card out of 2-3 others by good fortune. Your post doesn't make sense I had to read it two to three times just to gather your message. It isn't auto-win, but its strong enough of a card to where you want it adjusted so it can't be played in succession with removal? Is your sentence I highlighted sarcastic, poor english, or your argument collapsing on itself? All three?
this
However, I don't think Zihi is an AUTO WIN against combo decks like Mecha'thun. It just slows them down a bit but it helps a ton against a deck like Mecha'Thun.
I'm tired of people saying that control players want to win every matchups - we want a fair chance in a matchup that completely destroy us!
Look at it this way: Aggro can win against combo and control, but control and combo can also win against aggro. Control can't win against combo unless the combo player is stupid and plays a combo piece for no reason (happens from time to time).
Zihi is very useful in decks you might not expect to see. For example, its pretty decent in Quest Druid because of the fact that once you complete the quest, you don't need much mana to summon minions so you can just play Zihi right away. Still has to be timed perfectly though.