So, I just got my first legendary in many, many packs, and it's Hex Lord Malacrass, and all I can think is "Damn, what can I do with this? Nothing. So Disappointing."
Shouldn't getting a legendary be more exciting than this? than this? Isn't a legendary supposed to open up new decks and new strategies? Too often, it seems that they don't. A high proportion of legendaries are simply crap. Too high, I think, high enough that it's a serious problem for the game.
I went to the trouble of listing legendary cards in standard that I think rarely if ever see play, and confirmed my intuition by consulting hsreplay.com. See the complete list below. By my estimation, nearly half of all legendaries in standard are virtually useless.
Utility cards that can fit in many types of decks e.g., Zilliax
The following legendaries just don't fill any of those roles. They're useless filler. By printing these cards, Blizzard is causing two significant problems for the game:
The meta feels stale because, given a small pool of effective, build-around legendaries, there are far fewer deck archetypes than might otherwise be the case.
Players feel cheated and disappointed when they receive a poor legendary. We receive far less value per pack than the odds of 1 legendary per 20 packs might suggest. Blizzard is effectively cheating us by reducing the value of the average legendary.
I recognize that there will always be some cards that are stronger than others, and consequently decks that are more successful with those cards. However, I think that Blizzard has neglected to ensure that legendaries are valuable enough that the game has variety and players feel rewarded.
I note that some legendaries in the list have at times been playable. This is particularly true of those in the Classic set. But even back int he early days, they were at best niche cards. I was surprised to see that Cairne Bloodhoof is as little played as he is. Still, a player who opens this card will want to play it now, and as of now, it has little value.
I would be remiss if I did not make special mention of Duskfallen Aviana: What a steaming pile of crap! Why would they ever print this? Of course, this was the first legendary I got out of any Witchwood pack. It felt just awful. I'm still bitter.
It felt almost as bad as I when I opened my very first legendary in the Classic set, and it was Millhouse Manastorm. This quickly became the very first legendary I ever dusted.
The Crap Legendaries
Each card name is followed by the percentage of decks in standard in which it appears, according to hsreplay.com.
Many of those are not Crap, just not being usted because there is not a viable archetype for them. And that is the true problem, the small pool of viable decks.
There are a few legendaries you can complain about, but only a few (Harbinger Celestia for example isn't even something you can control). The vast majority find a home with someone somewhere, if not for competitive decks then for home-brews because some players just enjoy the mechanics.
That is what you miss: the devs design cards for all sorts of players, not just the Spikes who refuse to play anything that isn't in the top tiers. In fact not a single one of those cards had a flat 0% play rate on HSreplay, and a lot of the people doing the home-brewing won't be included on HSreplay (I know I'm not).
I don't have time to go through them all in any detail but I will flag up Lorewalker Cho, Illidan Stormrage and Nozdormu as examples with clear evidence. Have a watch through HysteriA's youtube videos and tell me these cards have no use.
Yea he’s right some are amazing in arena but suck in standard. In fact, I remember back when everyone said avianna was terrible and unplayable and look how that turned out.
I find myself disagreeing that all the cards you list are worthless as legendaries. While they may not see a lot of play in the current meta, they one and all have effects which can make them quite influential given the right deck. That influence may or may not be beneficial if you're simply looking to ladder, but may yet bear fruit with newer cards or in unusual circumstances. You specifically mention Hex Lord Malacrass. I have used him quite a lot in a Big Spell Mage deck, and the extra copies of cards he provides has pulled a win out for me on many occasions where I would otherwise have been destroyed. Most opponents just don't expect a third Polymorph or a second Zilliax magnefied to the first. Two Lich Kings... Oh yes. The same thing goes for Archmage Arugal. Put him in an Elemental Mage deck and combo with Book of Specters and you can fill your hand with extra copies of powerful synergistic minions. I have a friend who successfully made use of The Darkness in a Shark Rogue deck... The Storm Bringer is extremely effective many times in an Even Token Shaman setup... Halazzi, the Lynx is played in many Mid-range Hunter lists... Warmaster Voone is standard in many Dragon Control Warrior decks... While many of them may not be Tier 1 decks, they still have their place in the meta, and they still have powerful effects. That's why they're legendaries. Not just because they are all the best cards, but because of their power. Hopefully your next legendary will be more to your liking, but I for one still want these unique and powerful cards in my collection.
A lot of these cards are super fun. I can't believe anyone would actually hate that Deathwing is in the game or does what he does. He isn't very good rights now, but he is iconic and mights someday have a place in discardloc or a dragon deck that can cheat out dragons. In my opinion, legendaries should be judged by how interesting and unique they are and not by their power level. A lot of people enjoy having weak legendaries with strange abilities.
Stop crying and wait 1 month. All the OP legendaries will rotate out and hopefully there will be a lot more freedom in deckbuilding because you won't get destroyed by either jaina DK, rexxar DK or baku..
Interesting post! I think every HS player has giggled nervously opening a legendary card just to sigh in disappointment of the card itself.
Imo, Lord Jaraxxus is the craziest card in all of HS. If I had him I would force fit (is that a word?) him into every single deck.. Warlock, Hunter, Priest, Murloc, Gnome, Protos, you name it...
Rarity isn't supposed to a measure of power, it's a measure of how unique their effect is. You can easily replace your Chillwind yeti with any other common 4 drop but you can't replace your Reno in your renolock or Hadronox in your taunt druid
It should be noted that a lot of the "bad" legendaries on your list were played in past meta decks. By "meta" I mean seen in at least 5 tournament lists at some point
Sherazin was in tier 1 miracle rogue in early Un'Goro
Mosh is an uncommon card in control warriors throughout his existence in standard
Tyrantus was a popular anti-druid tech card during the druidstone era from WW until the recent ramp nerfs
Prince Valanar was played in some fringe warlocks
Kingsbane, but you already explained that
The Boomship is played in Mecha'thun warriors
Millhouse is played in some paladins for call to arms synergy
Cenarius was a good card in classic and was also played more recently in token druid
Mukla is a tech card that occasionally shows up in aggro decks
Jaraxxus was played in classic up until around the first rotation
Cairne was played in classic and in tempo warrior (from last year or before that?)
Ditto Deathwing. especially in tempo dragon warrior
If they were good, they can be good again. On the flip side, there are cards like Hadronox that were unplayable until they were tier 1. Also, I had Gonk and Zentimo carry me to legend once each they're perfectly fine cards as long as you're not trying hard to netdeck
Your whole premise is faulty. A mill deck deems crap as gold, there is no 1 for 1 exchange when so many different archetypes, strategies and synergies exist. You've tried to massively simplify a complicated system of interrelation to make a basic point. It's just a waste of time to do this shit, you basically don't care about the nuance and interplay of the vast cardpool, it's obvious...but that doesn't mean your opinion to deem things as 'bad' based on childlike reasoning is worth the time it took to write it up.
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If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
If all legendary cards are good, you need to craft all of them for the classes you play. It sucks when you get one that's not viable for you, but not feeling the pressure of *needing* 3 legendaries every expansion is nice too.
Also Lord Jaraxxus, Cairne Bloodhoof and Cenarius aren't bad by any means. Jaraxxus was a meta staple few years ago, it just got overshadowed by DK Gul'dan, Cairne saw play before Bonemare got nerfed and Cenarius was a popular choice in Token Druid before GI nerf.
So, I just got my first legendary in many, many packs, and it's Hex Lord Malacrass, and all I can think is "Damn, what can I do with this? Nothing. So Disappointing."
Shouldn't getting a legendary be more exciting than this? than this? Isn't a legendary supposed to open up new decks and new strategies? Too often, it seems that they don't. A high proportion of legendaries are simply crap. Too high, I think, high enough that it's a serious problem for the game.
I went to the trouble of listing legendary cards in standard that I think rarely if ever see play, and confirmed my intuition by consulting hsreplay.com. See the complete list below. By my estimation, nearly half of all legendaries in standard are virtually useless.
Utility cards that can fit in many types of decks e.g., Zilliax
The following legendaries just don't fill any of those roles. They're useless filler. By printing these cards, Blizzard is causing two significant problems for the game:
The meta feels stale because, given a small pool of effective, build-around legendaries, there are far fewer deck archetypes than might otherwise be the case.
Players feel cheated and disappointed when they receive a poor legendary. We receive far less value per pack than the odds of 1 legendary per 20 packs might suggest. Blizzard is effectively cheating us by reducing the value of the average legendary.
I recognize that there will always be some cards that are stronger than others, and consequently decks that are more successful with those cards. However, I think that Blizzard has neglected to ensure that legendaries are valuable enough that the game has variety and players feel rewarded.
I note that some legendaries in the list have at times been playable. This is particularly true of those in the Classic set. But even back int he early days, they were at best niche cards. I was surprised to see that Cairne Bloodhoof is as little played as he is. Still, a player who opens this card will want to play it now, and as of now, it has little value.
I would be remiss if I did not make special mention of Duskfallen Aviana: What a steaming pile of crap! Why would they ever print this? Of course, this was the first legendary I got out of any Witchwood pack. It felt just awful. I'm still bitter.
It felt almost as bad as I when I opened my very first legendary in the Classic set, and it was Millhouse Manastorm. This quickly became the very first legendary I ever dusted.
The Crap Legendaries
Each card name is followed by the percentage of decks in standard in which it appears, according to hsreplay.com.
Isn't a legendary supposed to open up new decks and new strategies?
Hex Lord Malacrass - If this card doesn't open up a chance for fun experiments, I don't really know what you expect. I do agree that not all legendaries fit in top tier decks, but nothing prevents you from trying out fun decks with them.
Wish they would let us reroll a legendary when you opened one. I am missing the good classic legendaries, but I got the crappy ones: Nozdormu, Cho, Nat, Beast, Mukkla
Fuck Blizz.
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So, I just got my first legendary in many, many packs, and it's Hex Lord Malacrass, and all I can think is "Damn, what can I do with this? Nothing. So Disappointing."
Shouldn't getting a legendary be more exciting than this? than this? Isn't a legendary supposed to open up new decks and new strategies? Too often, it seems that they don't. A high proportion of legendaries are simply crap. Too high, I think, high enough that it's a serious problem for the game.
I went to the trouble of listing legendary cards in standard that I think rarely if ever see play, and confirmed my intuition by consulting hsreplay.com. See the complete list below. By my estimation, nearly half of all legendaries in standard are virtually useless.
Legendaries should fill certain roles:
The following legendaries just don't fill any of those roles. They're useless filler. By printing these cards, Blizzard is causing two significant problems for the game:
I recognize that there will always be some cards that are stronger than others, and consequently decks that are more successful with those cards. However, I think that Blizzard has neglected to ensure that legendaries are valuable enough that the game has variety and players feel rewarded.
I note that some legendaries in the list have at times been playable. This is particularly true of those in the Classic set. But even back int he early days, they were at best niche cards. I was surprised to see that Cairne Bloodhoof is as little played as he is. Still, a player who opens this card will want to play it now, and as of now, it has little value.
I would be remiss if I did not make special mention of Duskfallen Aviana: What a steaming pile of crap! Why would they ever print this? Of course, this was the first legendary I got out of any Witchwood pack. It felt just awful. I'm still bitter.
It felt almost as bad as I when I opened my very first legendary in the Classic set, and it was Millhouse Manastorm. This quickly became the very first legendary I ever dusted.
The Crap Legendaries
Each card name is followed by the percentage of decks in standard in which it appears, according to hsreplay.com.
Classic
14 out of 30 total
The Beast 0.02%
Millhouse Manastorm 0.02%
Nozdormu 0.02%
Nat Pagle 0.04%
Illidan Stormrage 0.04%
Hogger0.05%
Gruul0.05%
Lorewalker Cho 0.07%
Onyxia0.08%
Lord Jaraxxus 0.1%
Cenarius0.1%
Deathwing0.1%
Cairne Bloodhoof 0.1%
King Mukla 0.1%
Rastakhan's Rumble
11 out of 23
Hir'eek, the Bat0.09%
Griftah0.10%
Gonk, the Raptor 0.1%
Wardruid Loti0.1%
Gral, the Shark 0.3%
War Master Voone 0.3%
Hex Lord Malacrass 0.3%
Zentimo0.5%
Halazzi, the Lynx 0.5%
Princess Talanji 0.5%
Bwonsamdi, the Dead 0.5%
The Boomsday Project
9 out of 23
Dr. Morrigan 0.01%
Harbinger Celestia 0.01%
Whizbang the Wonderful *
Zerek, Master Cloner 0.04%
Flark's Boom-Zooka 0.04%
Boommaster Flark 0.08%
The Storm Bringer 0.1%
Myra Rotspring 0.2%
Floop's Glorious Gloop 0.3%
The Boomship 0.3%
The Witchwood
12 out of 23
Duskfallen Aviana 0.002%
Blackhowl Gunspire 0.02%
Splintergraft 0.02%
Emeriss 0.09%
Glinda Crowskin 0.1%
Lady in White 0.1%
Dollmaster Dorian 0.2%
Toki, Time-Tinker 0.2%
Archmage Arugal 0.3%
Face Collector 0.3%
Chameleos 0.4%
Countess Ashmore 0.7%
K&C
8 out of 23
Temporus 0.008%
The Runespear 0.03%
The Darkness 0.06%
Dragon Soul 0.06%
Woecleaver 0.1%
Ixlid, Fungal Lord 0.1%
Geosculptor Yip 0.2%
Kingsbane 0.2% **
KFT
8 out of 23
Moorabi0.005%
Prince Valanar 0.02%
Lilian Voss 0.02%
Bolvar, Fireblood 0.03%
Professor Putricide 0.05%
Arfus 0.1%
Rotface 0.1%
Blood-Queen Lana'thel 0.2%
Un'Goro
10 out of 23
The Voraxx0.01%
Sherazin, Corpse Flower 0.01%
Ozruk 0.01%
King Mosh 0.04%
Unite the Murlocs 0.06%
The Last Kaleidosaur 0.09%
Swamp King Dred 0.1%
Tyrantus 0.1%
The Marsh Queen 0.2%
Clutchmother Zavas 0.2%
* Whizbang is very different from your typical legendary. I only mention him here for the sake of completeness.
** Kingsbaneis surprising to find at such low rates of play. The nerf to Leeching Poison punished this legendary excessively.
Many of those are not Crap, just not being usted because there is not a viable archetype for them. And that is the true problem, the small pool of viable decks.
Some crap legendary are good in arena and wild.
and kingsbane is op now in wild.
Malacrass is actually good though. NOt every legendary can be top tier.
Also, appearance rate says nothing about the power level of the card, allow me to redirect you to the salt thread
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
There are a few legendaries you can complain about, but only a few (Harbinger Celestia for example isn't even something you can control). The vast majority find a home with someone somewhere, if not for competitive decks then for home-brews because some players just enjoy the mechanics.
That is what you miss: the devs design cards for all sorts of players, not just the Spikes who refuse to play anything that isn't in the top tiers. In fact not a single one of those cards had a flat 0% play rate on HSreplay, and a lot of the people doing the home-brewing won't be included on HSreplay (I know I'm not).
I don't have time to go through them all in any detail but I will flag up Lorewalker Cho, Illidan Stormrage and Nozdormu as examples with clear evidence. Have a watch through HysteriA's youtube videos and tell me these cards have no use.
Yea he’s right some are amazing in arena but suck in standard. In fact, I remember back when everyone said avianna was terrible and unplayable and look how that turned out.
Whizbang the Wonderful - best card ever, pretty much playing only this one :P
I find myself disagreeing that all the cards you list are worthless as legendaries. While they may not see a lot of play in the current meta, they one and all have effects which can make them quite influential given the right deck. That influence may or may not be beneficial if you're simply looking to ladder, but may yet bear fruit with newer cards or in unusual circumstances. You specifically mention Hex Lord Malacrass. I have used him quite a lot in a Big Spell Mage deck, and the extra copies of cards he provides has pulled a win out for me on many occasions where I would otherwise have been destroyed. Most opponents just don't expect a third Polymorph or a second Zilliax magnefied to the first. Two Lich Kings... Oh yes. The same thing goes for Archmage Arugal. Put him in an Elemental Mage deck and combo with Book of Specters and you can fill your hand with extra copies of powerful synergistic minions. I have a friend who successfully made use of The Darkness in a Shark Rogue deck... The Storm Bringer is extremely effective many times in an Even Token Shaman setup... Halazzi, the Lynx is played in many Mid-range Hunter lists... Warmaster Voone is standard in many Dragon Control Warrior decks... While many of them may not be Tier 1 decks, they still have their place in the meta, and they still have powerful effects. That's why they're legendaries. Not just because they are all the best cards, but because of their power. Hopefully your next legendary will be more to your liking, but I for one still want these unique and powerful cards in my collection.
A lot of these cards are super fun. I can't believe anyone would actually hate that Deathwing is in the game or does what he does. He isn't very good rights now, but he is iconic and mights someday have a place in discardloc or a dragon deck that can cheat out dragons. In my opinion, legendaries should be judged by how interesting and unique they are and not by their power level. A lot of people enjoy having weak legendaries with strange abilities.
Stop crying and wait 1 month. All the OP legendaries will rotate out and hopefully there will be a lot more freedom in deckbuilding because you won't get destroyed by either jaina DK, rexxar DK or baku..
Interesting post! I think every HS player has giggled nervously opening a legendary card just to sigh in disappointment of the card itself.
Imo, Lord Jaraxxus is the craziest card in all of HS. If I had him I would force fit (is that a word?) him into every single deck.. Warlock, Hunter, Priest, Murloc, Gnome, Protos, you name it...
Rarity isn't supposed to a measure of power, it's a measure of how unique their effect is. You can easily replace your Chillwind yeti with any other common 4 drop but you can't replace your Reno in your renolock or Hadronox in your taunt druid
It should be noted that a lot of the "bad" legendaries on your list were played in past meta decks. By "meta" I mean seen in at least 5 tournament lists at some point
If they were good, they can be good again. On the flip side, there are cards like Hadronox that were unplayable until they were tier 1. Also, I had Gonk and Zentimo carry me to legend once each they're perfectly fine cards as long as you're not trying hard to netdeck
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
Would love to know why the mods don't just move this crap thread to the salt one.
Your whole premise is faulty. A mill deck deems crap as gold, there is no 1 for 1 exchange when so many different archetypes, strategies and synergies exist. You've tried to massively simplify a complicated system of interrelation to make a basic point. It's just a waste of time to do this shit, you basically don't care about the nuance and interplay of the vast cardpool, it's obvious...but that doesn't mean your opinion to deem things as 'bad' based on childlike reasoning is worth the time it took to write it up.
If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
If all legendary cards are good, you need to craft all of them for the classes you play. It sucks when you get one that's not viable for you, but not feeling the pressure of *needing* 3 legendaries every expansion is nice too.
If the meta is going to be infinite value, OTK and aggro then obviously value cards like Hex Lord Malacrass, Princess Talanji, The Boomship, Archmage Arugal etc aren't going to be played.
Also Lord Jaraxxus, Cairne Bloodhoof and Cenarius aren't bad by any means. Jaraxxus was a meta staple few years ago, it just got overshadowed by DK Gul'dan, Cairne saw play before Bonemare got nerfed and Cenarius was a popular choice in Token Druid before GI nerf.
It´s way to early to call some of these crap imo.
Hex Lord Malacrass - If this card doesn't open up a chance for fun experiments, I don't really know what you expect. I do agree that not all legendaries fit in top tier decks, but nothing prevents you from trying out fun decks with them.
Cry more, what I can tell. If some cards are not played much does not mean that they are useless.
I would be happy to get that Hex Lord Malacrass myself, looks like a fun card.
Wish they would let us reroll a legendary when you opened one. I am missing the good classic legendaries, but I got the crappy ones: Nozdormu, Cho, Nat, Beast, Mukkla
Fuck Blizz.