No more single target removal after Naturalise is gone? I know that this is intended to be one of Druid's weaknesses, but not having ANY class-based single target removal might be something of a problem for the class going forward. Maybe they will get something in the next exp, who knows? But the text in the YotD page implies that Blizzard want to " enforce the Druid’s weakness in removing large minions, maintaining its class identity"... To me this sounds like they want druid to be forever weaker against big minions. I know for a while Druid was considered way too strong, but I find myself thinking that this is a huge weakness for any class to have. There are so many big minions in most decks these days. Even the current Odd Paladin has a huge minion drop or two. I wonder how druid can be expected to remain competitive in such a state.
Druid didn’t have a weakness. They could out armor warriors, out draw mages, out swarm paladin, and out removal rogue. The entire class was just good. It should be unfavored against decks like even warlock, but the single card naturalize made it survive.
Oh, this Naturalize really hits the combo decks hard. Without this card in Standard, it kills the King Togg decks as well as all variations of them too. You cannot mill cards against control decks. And you cannot remove large minions or a hoard of minions anymore.
I don't know what Druid is going to do either, since they have no more removal as Swipe is ONLY good in very specific situations.
Oh, this Naturalize really hits the combo decks hard. Without this card in Standard, it kills the King Togg decks as well as all variations of them too. You cannot mill cards against control decks. And you cannot remove large minions or a hoard of minions anymore.
King Togwaggle will rotate together with Naturalize from standard. In Wild you can styill play both.
Oh, this Naturalize really hits the combo decks hard. Without this card in Standard, it kills the King Togg decks as well as all variations of them too. You cannot mill cards against control decks. And you cannot remove large minions or a hoard of minions anymore.
I don't know what Druid is going to do either, since they have no more removal as Swipe is ONLY good in very specific situations.
Agreed. For the cost, Swipe isn't particularly overwhelming, other than for very specific situations. (Such as against a board of 1./1s) Druids have usually had a target removal with a significant downside, such as Mulch and Naturalise. I would have expected them to receive some sort of viable replacement. It's perfectly find to have a weakness of course, (though there should still be techable options to counter the weakness) and it's previous "strengths" are pretty much gone with the rotation anyway, such as Ultimate Infestation, and a host of other super-power cards.
I'm over the moon that Naturalize is gone. 1 mana hard removal, where the "drawback" of forcing the opponent to draw two cards was as much of a benefit as anything else. The way it could be used in Toggwaggle and Hakkar decks as a massive offensive tool was an issue. Originally, it was a tempo gain, at a massive value loss. But Hearthstone has changed so much since the days of the Force/Roar combo.
That said, it'd be nice to get something new. Mulch was an interesting card, that I think probably could have seen play, if not for the fact that Big Game Hunter used to be the same 3-mana. I doubt anything will be actually brought back, but a card like Mulch makes sense. How about "Cycle of Life" as a 3-mana spell to destroy a minion, and add a random minion which costs 1 more to your opponent's hand. Not quite as random as Mulch was, but it'd be a tool. It solves a problem now, at the risk of a bigger problem later.
While I hope Druidstone doesn't happen again, I hope that Druid does get some good cards in the next expansion. I really hope Druid gets some cards that help Quest Druid once the deck gets put into Wild.
It’s just another sign that team 5 doesn’t know what they’re doing. Everything else that they did is great, but druid loses literally everything in rotation.
While I hope Druidstone doesn't happen again, I hope that Druid does get some good cards in the next expansion. I really hope Druid gets some cards that help Quest Druid once the deck gets put into Wild.
I certainly wouldn't want to see Druidstone return either. I don't like to see any {{Insert_class}}Stone meta appear. :-) But I do hope that druid can somehow remain viable and competitive. Of all the classes, I have found druid to at least be in the top 3 in terms of fun to play - most of the other classes like Hunter, Rogue, Warrior, etc are far too one-dimensional and boring. (For me)
Yeah, I forgot that Togg is rotating. Either way, Hakkar and Mecah'thun cannot work without some sort of replacement removal card.
Such as a new Druid card to destroy a friendly minion and gain some sort of benefit.
I don't mind weaknesses either, but Naturalize was weak against aggro as giving aggro 2 more cards for free is bad. Against control it was very good, but if you aren't a combo deck, you are going to lose against most other control decks eventually.
I suspect they are moving the Odd Druid card to HOF because of Baku and no reason to have these cards in Standard anymore without them.
So basically Druid is going to be in a weird place next expansion. Probably bottom tier and never playable unless they get OTK combo support.
I can almost guarantee they are printing a replacement. Every class has some extent of removal, they won't nuke classes' abilities to handle single large minions, because then they auto-lose. And those of you that think auto-losing actually exists in this game you are wrong. The chances may be so small to win against some match-ups, but data sites don't show 100% winrates for a reason- there is a chance the deck you're up against has the counter cards in the bottom 10 of the deck.
Class weaknesses make you use neutral cards that wouldn't normally get played.
Moonfire + voodoo doll is a 3 Mana assassinate. That's actually way better than most single target removals. But who would play a two card, three Mana removal when you can play a one card, one Mana removal?
Maybe black knight or big game hunter sneak back into a druid deck. I don't know. I'm not worried. Naturalize was a do everything the best for one Mana card. It killed anything, regardless of divine shield or not. It milled your opponent. It was used in hadronox and mechathun combos. For one Mana it had become silly.
The problem I see is that most classes can do most things at least decently. Last expansions have given more diverse tools for classes to cover their weak spots (card draw and AoE to hunter, ways to protect it life total to rogue) so I would like them to go out and explicitely say what the different classes CAN do and what they CANNOT do.
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No more single target removal after Naturalise is gone?
I know that this is intended to be one of Druid's weaknesses, but not having ANY class-based single target removal might be something of a problem for the class going forward.
Maybe they will get something in the next exp, who knows? But the text in the YotD page implies that Blizzard want to " enforce the Druid’s weakness in removing large minions, maintaining its class identity"...
To me this sounds like they want druid to be forever weaker against big minions.
I know for a while Druid was considered way too strong, but I find myself thinking that this is a huge weakness for any class to have.
There are so many big minions in most decks these days. Even the current Odd Paladin has a huge minion drop or two.
I wonder how druid can be expected to remain competitive in such a state.
We should probably just wait till the next expansion, who knows, maybe druidstone happens if the expansion has op cards for the class
Me? Gongaga.
Druids still have Duskfallen Aviana.
XD
Druid didn’t have a weakness. They could out armor warriors, out draw mages, out swarm paladin, and out removal rogue. The entire class was just good. It should be unfavored against decks like even warlock, but the single card naturalize made it survive.
Oh, this Naturalize really hits the combo decks hard. Without this card in Standard, it kills the King Togg decks as well as all variations of them too. You cannot mill cards against control decks. And you cannot remove large minions or a hoard of minions anymore.
I don't know what Druid is going to do either, since they have no more removal as Swipe is ONLY good in very specific situations.
Fuck druid who cares. Druid was OP for 5 years. Now this damn malfurion shall suffer for the next five.
It'll be fine, man.
King Togwaggle will rotate together with Naturalize from standard. In Wild you can styill play both.
--Alfi--
Agreed. For the cost, Swipe isn't particularly overwhelming, other than for very specific situations.
(Such as against a board of 1./1s)
Druids have usually had a target removal with a significant downside, such as Mulch and Naturalise. I would have expected them to receive some sort of viable replacement.
It's perfectly find to have a weakness of course, (though there should still be techable options to counter the weakness) and it's previous "strengths" are pretty much gone with the rotation anyway, such as Ultimate Infestation, and a host of other super-power cards.
As someone else mentioned, Toggwaggle is rotating out.
And I don't think Meca'thun Druid works without Naturalise either?
I'm over the moon that Naturalize is gone. 1 mana hard removal, where the "drawback" of forcing the opponent to draw two cards was as much of a benefit as anything else. The way it could be used in Toggwaggle and Hakkar decks as a massive offensive tool was an issue. Originally, it was a tempo gain, at a massive value loss. But Hearthstone has changed so much since the days of the Force/Roar combo.
That said, it'd be nice to get something new. Mulch was an interesting card, that I think probably could have seen play, if not for the fact that Big Game Hunter used to be the same 3-mana. I doubt anything will be actually brought back, but a card like Mulch makes sense. How about "Cycle of Life" as a 3-mana spell to destroy a minion, and add a random minion which costs 1 more to your opponent's hand. Not quite as random as Mulch was, but it'd be a tool. It solves a problem now, at the risk of a bigger problem later.
While I hope Druidstone doesn't happen again, I hope that Druid does get some good cards in the next expansion. I really hope Druid gets some cards that help Quest Druid once the deck gets put into Wild.
It’s just another sign that team 5 doesn’t know what they’re doing. Everything else that they did is great, but druid loses literally everything in rotation.
I certainly wouldn't want to see Druidstone return either.
I don't like to see any {{Insert_class}}Stone meta appear. :-)
But I do hope that druid can somehow remain viable and competitive. Of all the classes, I have found druid to at least be in the top 3 in terms of fun to play - most of the other classes like Hunter, Rogue, Warrior, etc are far too one-dimensional and boring. (For me)
Yeah, I forgot that Togg is rotating. Either way, Hakkar and Mecah'thun cannot work without some sort of replacement removal card.
Such as a new Druid card to destroy a friendly minion and gain some sort of benefit.
I don't mind weaknesses either, but Naturalize was weak against aggro as giving aggro 2 more cards for free is bad. Against control it was very good, but if you aren't a combo deck, you are going to lose against most other control decks eventually.
I suspect they are moving the Odd Druid card to HOF because of Baku and no reason to have these cards in Standard anymore without them.
So basically Druid is going to be in a weird place next expansion. Probably bottom tier and never playable unless they get OTK combo support.
I can almost guarantee they are printing a replacement. Every class has some extent of removal, they won't nuke classes' abilities to handle single large minions, because then they auto-lose. And those of you that think auto-losing actually exists in this game you are wrong. The chances may be so small to win against some match-ups, but data sites don't show 100% winrates for a reason- there is a chance the deck you're up against has the counter cards in the bottom 10 of the deck.
Here are some pretty key cards that Druid loses with the set rotation (not to mention Naturalize)
Knights of the Frozen Throne
Kobolds
Ungoro
Druid's identity will need to be completely redone after rotation.
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Class weaknesses make you use neutral cards that wouldn't normally get played.
Moonfire + voodoo doll is a 3 Mana assassinate. That's actually way better than most single target removals. But who would play a two card, three Mana removal when you can play a one card, one Mana removal?
Maybe black knight or big game hunter sneak back into a druid deck. I don't know. I'm not worried. Naturalize was a do everything the best for one Mana card. It killed anything, regardless of divine shield or not. It milled your opponent. It was used in hadronox and mechathun combos. For one Mana it had become silly.
The problem I see is that most classes can do most things at least decently. Last expansions have given more diverse tools for classes to cover their weak spots (card draw and AoE to hunter, ways to protect it life total to rogue) so I would like them to go out and explicitely say what the different classes CAN do and what they CANNOT do.