Peter “LegendaryFerret” Whalen appeared on The Angry Chicken podcast and told viewers that Baku and Genn are “absolutely the kind of thing that are defining the meta game right now in probably a way that’s not super healthy” and that the developers are investigating what to do about them over the next weeks and months.
A couple of days later, Dean “Iksar” Ayala was interviewed on Value Town, where he talked about the issue at some length (starting at around 38:00 in the video). This interview was a treasure trove into the design of Baku and Genn. The developers did not realize how powerful the cards would become at the time: they had some contingency plans for Odd Paladin (Hero Power making a 2/2) and Odd Warrior (Hero Power providing 3 armor) in case those turned out to be too strong, as well as the general contingency plan to make fewer odd-cost or even-cost cards for some classes if either archetype needed to be toned down for a particular class. However, the sheer number of good Odd/Even decks caught them by surprise, especially the Even decks such as Even Paladin and Even Shaman, where they had no good plans to limit their power – it is not that easy to tweak the regular Hero Power costing one mana less compared to tweaking the numbers of an upgraded Hero Power. However, the developers are now determined to solve the Baku/Genn issue by the time the first expansion of 2019 launches.
This was the plan all along. Print two out of control must-haves, lap up the sweet pack sales and then feign ignorance when problems materialize. They get the sales, they dodge the blame (we are as shocked as you all) and then they get to play Team 5 to the rescue, yet again. I love the hogwash about nerfing the warrior/paladin - players are too stupid to handle deck slots or card text changes, but we can deal with Trueheart having a different effect than Baku? - okey dokey then. Also, nice smokescreen printing a couple useless even-odd support cards so they can claim it was part of an overall strategy when they knew those cards would never see play.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
That interview didn't prove anything other than the power of Genn and Baku caught them out a little bit. He didn't even think that the existence of Genn and Baku influnced their card design or costs (which I find hard to be believe).
In another interview with Team 5 they mention they did not intentionally have year of the Raven at a lower power level compared to year of the Mammoth which I find insane because if that's true then what were they doing?
That interview didn't prove anything other than the power of Genn and Baku caught them out a little bit. He didn't even think that the existence of Genn and Baku influnced their card design or costs (which I find hard to be believe).
In another interview with Team 5 they mention they did not intentionally have year of the Raven at a lower power level compared to year of the Mammoth which I find insane because if that's true then what were they doing?
In every single instance where Team 5 has stated that they are 'looking at' a card they have nerfed it. You can not believe the deadline of before the expansion since this IS Blizzard and blizzard never meets a deadline that doesn't have a day and time. But when they are eying a card for nerfs, it's going to get nerfed.
As far as them not intentionally having Raven at a lower power level, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
This IS the same group that felt that adding more slots would 'confuse the audience' and thought that having the opponent's cards backwards in observer mode was a smart decision. Them feeling that Magnetic and the Loas were as high powered as the Death Knights sounds pretty stupid. And it makes more sense for them to being that stupid than for them to purposely lower the power level then somehow think it makes sense to lie to their customers about it even when the biggest problem we have now is how high powered the prior year is....
you know what, that also sounds stupid rather than malice. Keeping 2018 at a lower level than 2017 was a smart thing and it's either foolish to claim that wasn't your idea or foolish to not realize you don't want 2018 to be as high powered as 2017.
But yeah, the nerfs will be coming. The question is whether it'll be a gutting of the cards or something more reasonable. Honestly I'm hoping for a nuke rather than risking a Quest Rogue situation where we have to keep coming back to them over and over until they finally get nerfed enough to push them out of the meta.
I will be glad if they nerf both Genn and Baku and won’t touch any other cards or classes. Like even if they nerf paladin hero power to 1 2/2 there’s still will be an opportunity for others classes to become more op over time (in the next rotation let’s say). They just need to accept that it was their mistake and poor designing, and fix it as quick as they can.
I will be glad if they nerf both Genn and Baku and won’t touch any other cards or classes. Like even if they nerf paladin hero power to 1 2/2 there’s still will be an opportunity for others classes to become more op over time (in the next rotation let’s say). They just need to accept that it was their mistake and poor designing, and fix it as quick as they can.
How about a legendary that kicks in only if your cards have mana divisible by three (0,3,6,9)? It could make your hero power zero cost but you lose 1 health every time you deploy it.
This isn't a new idea I imagine but here goes. I think a "nuke from orbit" nerf would be to take away the start of game wording. Make it like Justicar where the upgrade becomes a Battlecry. Perhaps adjust their cost and stats to allow them to be played earlier. Genn becomes a 4 mana 4/3 and Baku a 5 mana 4/5 or something like that.
As a result these cards would see as much play as Justicar did.
This was the plan all along. Print two out of control must-haves, lap up the sweet pack sales and then feign ignorance when problems materialize. They get the sales, they dodge the blame (we are as shocked as you all) and then they get to play Team 5 to the rescue, yet again. I love the hogwash about nerfing the warrior/paladin - players are too stupid to handle deck slots or card text changes, but we can deal with Trueheart having a different effect than Baku? - okey dokey then. Also, nice smokescreen printing a couple useless even-odd support cards so they can claim it was part of an overall strategy when they knew those cards would never see play.
If they were to change the upgraded hero powers, it would affect both Baku and Justicar. There is literally no reason to think otherwise.
Even Shaman was already not great and then they nerfed Flametongue totem, the only thing holding the deck together.
Yes, Even Paladin is a tier 1 deck, but look at everything rotating out of it.
Hydrologist, Corpsetaker, Spikeridged Steed, Tarim, Val'anyr, Dinosize, Drygulch Jailor, Level Up, Crystal Lion, Lightforged Stegodon (Not that the whole Silver Hand package actually gets run, but still, they'd pretty much HAVE to resort to this stuff if these were all Witchwood cards) Lich King, Saronite... you get the picture. The entire foundation of the deck and any other good option you might have to run in it all crumbles on rotation.
And Even Paladin and Even Shaman are the only even decks that ever saw any real play. Even Rogue is kind of a thing, but it's really not... great.
And I forgot about Evenlock, but that's a deck that's losing it's entire core, too. Reaver, Amethyst Spellstone, Beetle, Brewer, Bonemare, Lich King, Vulgar Homonculus, Defile, and perhaps more importantly, Gul'dan, it's all gone. The only thing that deck has left is mountain giant hero power cheese. And that isn't worth building a whole deck around, as powerful as those turn 3 giants can be.
Leave Genn alone and focus on Baku, honestly. The rotation is going to slaughter Even decks all by itself.
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Baku and Genn, Your Time Is Up
https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/are-genn-greymane-and-baku-the-mooneater-too-strong/
0/10, didn't include a picture of himself in this post
Old news.
This is old news. Seen this already. Plus, it doesn't confirm anything. Don't get too excited.
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Well it's starting to catch the developers attention. When they talk about something then it means it's on their radar.
Nice if it happens. Fresh new meta in april.
GUYS WTF!! what am i going to do with odd paladin now :( ???? WHY NERF!!!!
Fun > Meta
This was the plan all along. Print two out of control must-haves, lap up the sweet pack sales and then feign ignorance when problems materialize. They get the sales, they dodge the blame (we are as shocked as you all) and then they get to play Team 5 to the rescue, yet again. I love the hogwash about nerfing the warrior/paladin - players are too stupid to handle deck slots or card text changes, but we can deal with Trueheart having a different effect than Baku? - okey dokey then. Also, nice smokescreen printing a couple useless even-odd support cards so they can claim it was part of an overall strategy when they knew those cards would never see play.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
That interview didn't prove anything other than the power of Genn and Baku caught them out a little bit. He didn't even think that the existence of Genn and Baku influnced their card design or costs (which I find hard to be believe).
In another interview with Team 5 they mention they did not intentionally have year of the Raven at a lower power level compared to year of the Mammoth which I find insane because if that's true then what were they doing?
In every single instance where Team 5 has stated that they are 'looking at' a card they have nerfed it. You can not believe the deadline of before the expansion since this IS Blizzard and blizzard never meets a deadline that doesn't have a day and time. But when they are eying a card for nerfs, it's going to get nerfed.
As far as them not intentionally having Raven at a lower power level, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
This IS the same group that felt that adding more slots would 'confuse the audience' and thought that having the opponent's cards backwards in observer mode was a smart decision. Them feeling that Magnetic and the Loas were as high powered as the Death Knights sounds pretty stupid. And it makes more sense for them to being that stupid than for them to purposely lower the power level then somehow think it makes sense to lie to their customers about it even when the biggest problem we have now is how high powered the prior year is....
you know what, that also sounds stupid rather than malice. Keeping 2018 at a lower level than 2017 was a smart thing and it's either foolish to claim that wasn't your idea or foolish to not realize you don't want 2018 to be as high powered as 2017.
But yeah, the nerfs will be coming. The question is whether it'll be a gutting of the cards or something more reasonable. Honestly I'm hoping for a nuke rather than risking a Quest Rogue situation where we have to keep coming back to them over and over until they finally get nerfed enough to push them out of the meta.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I will be glad if they nerf both Genn and Baku and won’t touch any other cards or classes. Like even if they nerf paladin hero power to 1 2/2 there’s still will be an opportunity for others classes to become more op over time (in the next rotation let’s say). They just need to accept that it was their mistake and poor designing, and fix it as quick as they can.
Good
Damn straight.
How to fuck genn and baku up, keeping them some how alive: (i did't think of all the possible overpowered combinations, maybe it will be even worse.)
Genn: bla bla... turn you hero power in another basic hero power. It cost 1
Baku: bla bla... turn your hero power in another upgraded hero power
If this is too much rng, i am fine with discover too
How about a legendary that kicks in only if your cards have mana divisible by three (0,3,6,9)? It could make your hero power zero cost but you lose 1 health every time you deploy it.
This isn't a new idea I imagine but here goes. I think a "nuke from orbit" nerf would be to take away the start of game wording. Make it like Justicar where the upgrade becomes a Battlecry. Perhaps adjust their cost and stats to allow them to be played earlier. Genn becomes a 4 mana 4/3 and Baku a 5 mana 4/5 or something like that.
As a result these cards would see as much play as Justicar did.
If they were to change the upgraded hero powers, it would affect both Baku and Justicar. There is literally no reason to think otherwise.
Honestly, do they even need to look at Genn?
Even Shaman was already not great and then they nerfed Flametongue totem, the only thing holding the deck together.
Yes, Even Paladin is a tier 1 deck, but look at everything rotating out of it.
Hydrologist, Corpsetaker, Spikeridged Steed, Tarim, Val'anyr, Dinosize, Drygulch Jailor, Level Up, Crystal Lion, Lightforged Stegodon (Not that the whole Silver Hand package actually gets run, but still, they'd pretty much HAVE to resort to this stuff if these were all Witchwood cards) Lich King, Saronite... you get the picture. The entire foundation of the deck and any other good option you might have to run in it all crumbles on rotation.
And Even Paladin and Even Shaman are the only even decks that ever saw any real play. Even Rogue is kind of a thing, but it's really not... great.
And I forgot about Evenlock, but that's a deck that's losing it's entire core, too. Reaver, Amethyst Spellstone, Beetle, Brewer, Bonemare, Lich King, Vulgar Homonculus, Defile, and perhaps more importantly, Gul'dan, it's all gone. The only thing that deck has left is mountain giant hero power cheese. And that isn't worth building a whole deck around, as powerful as those turn 3 giants can be.
Leave Genn alone and focus on Baku, honestly. The rotation is going to slaughter Even decks all by itself.