So after reading through some patch notes, I am honestly bewildered and kind of scared for the state of this game as it stands.
Equality? 4 Mana now?
This has to be the most insane nerf I've seen in a while. Honestly I could make a case for it being THE craziest nerf I have ever seen.
1. This card has been a staple in Paladin Decks since, well, forever
It does well in token decks, allowing smaller minions to take out bigger minions
It does well in control decks, allowing for an amazing 2-card clear
I just don't understand this at all. It seems like a change made in response to a problem that has only arisen of recent, and it seems to be only in response to recent meta changes.
I need some opinions on these changes and perhaps an explanation as to why this was justified. Please help me out here
well, if they make it 3 mana then it will be able to be used in baku decks.
And hey, at least you can still use it with pyromancer and concencrate.
Do you mean consecrate? Yeah but it's two turns later. The huge thing about equality is that it worked as an early as well as late-game clear, now it would seem it's only geared for late game
The equality nerf was specifically related to Baku imo, which is very short-sighted and quite frankly, bullshit. Baku will rotate out eventually so they destroy a classic card because they made odd pally too op? Should've nerfed Baku by changing the hero power to one 2/2 recruit. Would've solved everything.
Unfortunately Blizzard appears to no longer nerfs legendaries, so instead classic cards are being fucked around with.
The equality nerf was specifically related to Baku imo, which is very short-sighted and quite frankly, bullshit. Baku will rotate out eventually so they destroy a classic card because they made odd pally too op? Should've nerfed Baku by changing the hero power to one 2/2 recruit. Would've solved everything.
Unfortunately Blizzard appears to no longer nerfs legendaries, so instead classic cards are being fucked around with.
Except Equality is NOT destroyed. Equality is a reactive card, and the mana cost of a reactive card is far less important than that of a proactive card. This is why Warriors still use Execute, Druids still use Spreading Plague, etc.
Paladin is going to have to make due with a more costly board clear. For now, they are fine, because of cards like Time Out! and Shrink Ray, as well as all the healing they have.
Finally, Baku has NOTHING to do why Equality was nerfed. The card was too good at 2 mana. Period.
They are trying to get rid of auto-includes from the basic/classic set. Pretty simple.
1 - They want folks to use new cards.
2- They want folks to buy new cards.
If 25 cards of your deck are just auto-include basic/classic cards you just get enough dust to craft the other 5 and forget buying packs.
They don't want to nerf those cards into OBLIVION, but enough that you probably don't throw then into every deck because they are just good enough. They want you to have to weigh them against potentially better and new options.
So after reading through some patch notes, I am honestly bewildered and kind of scared for the state of this game as it stands.
Equality? 4 Mana now?
This has to be the most insane nerf I've seen in a while. Honestly I could make a case for it being THE craziest nerf I have ever seen.
1. This card has been a staple in Paladin Decks since, well, forever
It does well in token decks, allowing smaller minions to take out bigger minions
It does well in control decks, allowing for an amazing 2-card clear
I just don't understand this at all. It seems like a change made in response to a problem that has only arisen of recent, and it seems to be only in response to recent meta changes.
I need some opinions on these changes and perhaps an explanation as to why this was justified. Please help me out here
You really said it yourself mate. It’s been a staple in any Paladin deck forever - that usually spells problematic.
So all in all, I’m actually perfectly fine with it.
The equality nerf was specifically related to Baku imo, which is very short-sighted and quite frankly, bullshit. Baku will rotate out eventually so they destroy a classic card because they made odd pally too op? Should've nerfed Baku by changing the hero power to one 2/2 recruit. Would've solved everything.
Unfortunately Blizzard appears to no longer nerfs legendaries, so instead classic cards are being fucked around with.
The equality nerf was specifically related to Baku imo, which is very short-sighted and quite frankly, bullshit. Baku will rotate out eventually so they destroy a classic card because they made odd pally too op? Should've nerfed Baku by changing the hero power to one 2/2 recruit. Would've solved everything.
Unfortunately Blizzard appears to no longer nerfs legendaries, so instead classic cards are being fucked around with.
This is exactly what I think and I totally agree with you. Like point for point.
The equality nerf was specifically related to Baku imo, which is very short-sighted and quite frankly, bullshit. Baku will rotate out eventually so they destroy a classic card because they made odd pally too op? Should've nerfed Baku by changing the hero power to one 2/2 recruit. Would've solved everything.
Unfortunately Blizzard appears to no longer nerfs legendaries, so instead classic cards are being fucked around with.
Except Equality is NOT destroyed. Equality is a reactive card, and the mana cost of a reactive card is far less important than that of a proactive card. This is why Warriors still use Execute, Druids still use Spreading Plague, etc.
Paladin is going to have to make due with a more costly board clear. For now, they are fine, because of cards like Time Out! and Shrink Ray, as well as all the healing they have.
Finally, Baku has NOTHING to do why Equality was nerfed. The card was too good at 2 mana. Period.
How was the card too good at 2 mana? That is ridiculous. Few had any sort of issue with it, it had existed in the game for years without any issue. Your other examples were cards that were bumped up by one mana cost, this was bumped up two - why do you think that is? Why not bump it up one like spreading plague and execute? Oh yes, of course, odd paladin would be insane. No relation LOL.
The equality nerf was specifically related to Baku imo, which is very short-sighted and quite frankly, bullshit. Baku will rotate out eventually so they destroy a classic card because they made odd pally too op? Should've nerfed Baku by changing the hero power to one 2/2 recruit. Would've solved everything.
Unfortunately Blizzard appears to no longer nerfs legendaries, so instead classic cards are being fucked around with.
Except Equality is NOT destroyed. Equality is a reactive card, and the mana cost of a reactive card is far less important than that of a proactive card. This is why Warriors still use Execute, Druids still use Spreading Plague, etc.
Paladin is going to have to make due with a more costly board clear. For now, they are fine, because of cards like Time Out! and Shrink Ray, as well as all the healing they have.
Finally, Baku has NOTHING to do why Equality was nerfed. The card was too good at 2 mana. Period.
How was the card too good at 2 mana? That is ridiculous. Few had any sort of issue with it, it had existed in the game for years without any issue. Your other examples were cards that were bumped up by one mana cost, this was bumped up two - why do you think that is? Why not bump it up one like spreading plague and execute? Oh yes, of course, odd paladin would be insane. No relation LOL.
It may he heard to comprehend, but your baseless idea of why it was bumped 2 and not 1 mana, is no more relevant than his baseless idea of why it was.
You’re both presenting your personal opinions, no facts. And that is perfectly okay. I don’t see any reason why you’re trying to reticule him for disagreeing with you.
The equality nerf was specifically related to Baku imo, which is very short-sighted and quite frankly, bullshit. Baku will rotate out eventually so they destroy a classic card because they made odd pally too op? Should've nerfed Baku by changing the hero power to one 2/2 recruit. Would've solved everything.
Unfortunately Blizzard appears to no longer nerfs legendaries, so instead classic cards are being fucked around with.
Except Equality is NOT destroyed. Equality is a reactive card, and the mana cost of a reactive card is far less important than that of a proactive card. This is why Warriors still use Execute, Druids still use Spreading Plague, etc.
Paladin is going to have to make due with a more costly board clear. For now, they are fine, because of cards like Time Out! and Shrink Ray, as well as all the healing they have.
Finally, Baku has NOTHING to do why Equality was nerfed. The card was too good at 2 mana. Period.
How was the card too good at 2 mana? That is ridiculous. Few had any sort of issue with it, it had existed in the game for years without any issue. Your other examples were cards that were bumped up by one mana cost, this was bumped up two - why do you think that is? Why not bump it up one like spreading plague and execute? Oh yes, of course, odd paladin would be insane. No relation LOL.
It would be helpful if you learned how to quote.
I am going to echo Thijs's opinion on this. He said that Equality was too good at 2 mana. He initially predicted that it would see no play at 4 mana, but after thinking about for a few seconds, realized and stated that it would still be played. Notice that Firebat's Hakkar Paly still runs two copies of Equality.
Lots of nearly auto-include Classic cards have been nerfed recently (Mana Wyrm, Nourish, and Wild Growth were the three most recents ones before this round). There are more to come. None of the above cards were nerfed BECAUSE of Genn/Baku.
Now it is true that nerfing Equality to 3 mana would probably make it playable in Odd Paly. So maybe Baku is involved with the choice to make it 4 mana instead of 3. But the reason to nerf the card in the first place has NOTHING to do with Baku. It was an auto-include in every non-aggro Paly deck, and it was too good. The same way that WG was an auto-include in EVERY Druid deck, and was too good. Etc.
The equality nerf was specifically related to Baku imo, which is very short-sighted and quite frankly, bullshit. Baku will rotate out eventually so they destroy a classic card because they made odd pally too op? Should've nerfed Baku by changing the hero power to one 2/2 recruit. Would've solved everything.
Unfortunately Blizzard appears to no longer nerfs legendaries, so instead classic cards are being fucked around with.
If you find a spare hour have a watch of the recent ValueTown that was posted on the front page. There you will see a main balance dev give rational explanations for the recent nerfs, including why Equality was put at 4 mana instead of 3 and explicitly dispelling the Odd Pally reason while at it. Regarding 'short-sighted', their reasons are in fact very long-sighted.
He also said they were actively working on trying to address Genn and Baku for the next set (it sounded like they were testing changes to those cards themselves).
It is fine to disagree what what decisions are made, but at least be aware of the information available before peddling nonsense like too many people do.
Equality, Hunter's Mark, and Execute are all variations on the same card. They all destroy a minion if you can provide at least 1 damage on the minion you want to destroy. They decided this sort of effect should cost 2 mana.
At 2 mana, Equality was totally overpowered compared to 2-mana Execute and Hunter's Mark. If there was a second enemy minion on the board, Equality was twice as good. They changed the cost to reflect that.
The equality nerf was specifically related to Baku imo, which is very short-sighted and quite frankly, bullshit. Baku will rotate out eventually so they destroy a classic card because they made odd pally too op? Should've nerfed Baku by changing the hero power to one 2/2 recruit. Would've solved everything.
Unfortunately Blizzard appears to no longer nerfs legendaries, so instead classic cards are being fucked around with.
If you find a spare hour have a watch of the recent ValueTown that was posted on the front page. There you will see a main balance dev give rational explanations for the recent nerfs, including why Equality was put at 4 mana instead of 3 and explicitly dispelling the Odd Pally reason while at it. Regarding 'short-sighted', their reasons are in fact very long-sighted.
He also said they were actively working on trying to address Genn and Baku for the next set (it sounded like they were testing changes to those cards themselves).
It is fine to disagree what what decisions are made, but at least be aware of the information available before peddling nonsense like too many people do.
Do you think they are being completely forthcoming regarding what they say? At least try to use a bit of critical thinking when you consider an issue.
Do you think they are being completely forthcoming regarding what they say? At least try to use a bit of critical thinking when you consider an issue.
No I don't expect them to say every reason. I am sure money will enter the story, but even then it is unclear that changes anything because if they truly make the game better then they keep the player base and make more money.
The point here is their reasons are rational and were justified. You are welcome to disagree but you need to provide evidence for your argument. Hey, I am quite willing to be convinced if you have stronger evidence.
The equality nerf was specifically related to Baku imo, which is very short-sighted and quite frankly, bullshit. Baku will rotate out eventually so they destroy a classic card because they made odd pally too op? Should've nerfed Baku by changing the hero power to one 2/2 recruit. Would've solved everything.
Unfortunately Blizzard appears to no longer nerfs legendaries, so instead classic cards are being fucked around with.
If you find a spare hour have a watch of the recent ValueTown that was posted on the front page. There you will see a main balance dev give rational explanations for the recent nerfs, including why Equality was put at 4 mana instead of 3 and explicitly dispelling the Odd Pally reason while at it. Regarding 'short-sighted', their reasons are in fact very long-sighted.
He also said they were actively working on trying to address Genn and Baku for the next set (it sounded like they were testing changes to those cards themselves).
It is fine to disagree what what decisions are made, but at least be aware of the information available before peddling nonsense like too many people do.
Do you think they are being completely forthcoming regarding what they say? At least try to use a bit of critical thinking when you consider an issue.
People using plenty of critical thinking. It honestly just feels like you’ve decided that the idea of the nerf in your head is the only viable one, and that’s quite narcissistic.
At the end of the day, the question worth asking is: Did the nerf make the card unplayable? If the answer is ‘no’, then the nerf is fine. Feel free to speculate whether or not the devs are trying to “deceive” you with their reasoning for choosing the way of nerfing that they did, but to what end?
You have a card that is still perfectly playable, so this obsessive need to try and blame the nerf on Baku seems rather pointless, and just for arguments sake, in an attempt to target your discontent at the devs.
The card is no longer auto include, which in my mind is a win for the game overall.
Do you think they are being completely forthcoming regarding what they say? At least try to use a bit of critical thinking when you consider an issue.
No I don't expect them to say every reason. I am sure money will enter the story, but even then it is unclear that changes anything because if they truly make the game better then they keep the player base and make more money.
The point here is their reasons are rational and were justified. You are welcome to disagree but you need to provide evidence for your argument. Hey, I am quite willing to be convinced if you have stronger evidence.
Unless a dev goes on record there won't be evidence indicating that equality was bumped up 2 due to Baku. Given that all the other nerfs were one and this one was two, all we can do is surmise the reason behind that. A 2 mana cost increase nerf doesn't happen that frequently, last one was GI and I can't even remember the one before that. In regards to my point regarding legendaries, again all we have to do is look at their actions (instead of statements or interviews). When was the last legendary nerf? Raza? I can't even remember. IMO they are indirectly nerfing legendaries by nerfing cheaper cards, the evidence for that would be the indirect Shudderwock nerf (when Grumble was the more logical target) and now this.
They can say whatever they want, and I have no issue with a for-profit company making money. I do have an issue with the classic set being screwed around with unnecessarily.
Equality, Hunter's Mark, and Execute are all variations on the same card. They all destroy a minion if you can provide at least 1 damage on the minion you want to destroy. They decided this sort of effect should cost 2 mana.
At 2 mana, Equality was totally overpowered compared to 2-mana Execute and Hunter's Mark. If there was a second enemy minion on the board, Equality was twice as good. They changed the cost to reflect that.
It's not that complicated.
And Flametongue Totem + Voltaic Burst thats a 6 attack rush minion and a 4/3 body for only 3 mana and synarge very well with hero power ... thats insane
Cold Blood + Southsea Deckhand is a 6 attack charge minion for only 2 mana no need for leeroy and rogue always has a dildo in hand ...
nerfs seem that they all share the 1 fact .they all are insane cheap 2 cards combos ....
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So after reading through some patch notes, I am honestly bewildered and kind of scared for the state of this game as it stands.
Equality? 4 Mana now?
This has to be the most insane nerf I've seen in a while. Honestly I could make a case for it being THE craziest nerf I have ever seen.
1. This card has been a staple in Paladin Decks since, well, forever
I just don't understand this at all. It seems like a change made in response to a problem that has only arisen of recent, and it seems to be only in response to recent meta changes.
I need some opinions on these changes and perhaps an explanation as to why this was justified. Please help me out here
well, if they make it 3 mana then it will be able to be used in baku decks.
And hey, at least you can still use it with pyromancer and concencrate.
Do you mean consecrate? Yeah but it's two turns later. The huge thing about equality is that it worked as an early as well as late-game clear, now it would seem it's only geared for late game
The equality nerf was specifically related to Baku imo, which is very short-sighted and quite frankly, bullshit. Baku will rotate out eventually so they destroy a classic card because they made odd pally too op? Should've nerfed Baku by changing the hero power to one 2/2 recruit. Would've solved everything.
Unfortunately Blizzard appears to no longer nerfs legendaries, so instead classic cards are being fucked around with.
Except Equality is NOT destroyed. Equality is a reactive card, and the mana cost of a reactive card is far less important than that of a proactive card. This is why Warriors still use Execute, Druids still use Spreading Plague, etc.
Paladin is going to have to make due with a more costly board clear. For now, they are fine, because of cards like Time Out! and Shrink Ray, as well as all the healing they have.
Finally, Baku has NOTHING to do why Equality was nerfed. The card was too good at 2 mana. Period.
They are trying to get rid of auto-includes from the basic/classic set. Pretty simple.
1 - They want folks to use new cards.
2- They want folks to buy new cards.
If 25 cards of your deck are just auto-include basic/classic cards you just get enough dust to craft the other 5 and forget buying packs.
They don't want to nerf those cards into OBLIVION, but enough that you probably don't throw then into every deck because they are just good enough. They want you to have to weigh them against potentially better and new options.
Galavant Animation
You really said it yourself mate. It’s been a staple in any Paladin deck forever - that usually spells problematic.
So all in all, I’m actually perfectly fine with it.
Purely speculation though....
This is exactly what I think and I totally agree with you. Like point for point.
You just answered your own question. They don't like auto include classic/basic cards.
The equality nerf was specifically related to Baku imo, which is very short-sighted and quite frankly, bullshit. Baku will rotate out eventually so they destroy a classic card because they made odd pally too op? Should've nerfed Baku by changing the hero power to one 2/2 recruit. Would've solved everything.
Unfortunately Blizzard appears to no longer nerfs legendaries, so instead classic cards are being fucked around with.
Except Equality is NOT destroyed. Equality is a reactive card, and the mana cost of a reactive card is far less important than that of a proactive card. This is why Warriors still use Execute, Druids still use Spreading Plague, etc.
Paladin is going to have to make due with a more costly board clear. For now, they are fine, because of cards like Time Out! and Shrink Ray, as well as all the healing they have.
Finally, Baku has NOTHING to do why Equality was nerfed. The card was too good at 2 mana. Period.
How was the card too good at 2 mana? That is ridiculous. Few had any sort of issue with it, it had existed in the game for years without any issue. Your other examples were cards that were bumped up by one mana cost, this was bumped up two - why do you think that is? Why not bump it up one like spreading plague and execute? Oh yes, of course, odd paladin would be insane. No relation LOL.
It may he heard to comprehend, but your baseless idea of why it was bumped 2 and not 1 mana, is no more relevant than his baseless idea of why it was.
You’re both presenting your personal opinions, no facts. And that is perfectly okay. I don’t see any reason why you’re trying to reticule him for disagreeing with you.
It would be helpful if you learned how to quote.
I am going to echo Thijs's opinion on this. He said that Equality was too good at 2 mana. He initially predicted that it would see no play at 4 mana, but after thinking about for a few seconds, realized and stated that it would still be played. Notice that Firebat's Hakkar Paly still runs two copies of Equality.
Lots of nearly auto-include Classic cards have been nerfed recently (Mana Wyrm, Nourish, and Wild Growth were the three most recents ones before this round). There are more to come. None of the above cards were nerfed BECAUSE of Genn/Baku.
Now it is true that nerfing Equality to 3 mana would probably make it playable in Odd Paly. So maybe Baku is involved with the choice to make it 4 mana instead of 3. But the reason to nerf the card in the first place has NOTHING to do with Baku. It was an auto-include in every non-aggro Paly deck, and it was too good. The same way that WG was an auto-include in EVERY Druid deck, and was too good. Etc.
If you find a spare hour have a watch of the recent ValueTown that was posted on the front page. There you will see a main balance dev give rational explanations for the recent nerfs, including why Equality was put at 4 mana instead of 3 and explicitly dispelling the Odd Pally reason while at it. Regarding 'short-sighted', their reasons are in fact very long-sighted.
He also said they were actively working on trying to address Genn and Baku for the next set (it sounded like they were testing changes to those cards themselves).
It is fine to disagree what what decisions are made, but at least be aware of the information available before peddling nonsense like too many people do.
Equality, Hunter's Mark, and Execute are all variations on the same card. They all destroy a minion if you can provide at least 1 damage on the minion you want to destroy. They decided this sort of effect should cost 2 mana.
At 2 mana, Equality was totally overpowered compared to 2-mana Execute and Hunter's Mark. If there was a second enemy minion on the board, Equality was twice as good. They changed the cost to reflect that.
It's not that complicated.
Do you think they are being completely forthcoming regarding what they say? At least try to use a bit of critical thinking when you consider an issue.
No I don't expect them to say every reason. I am sure money will enter the story, but even then it is unclear that changes anything because if they truly make the game better then they keep the player base and make more money.
The point here is their reasons are rational and were justified. You are welcome to disagree but you need to provide evidence for your argument. Hey, I am quite willing to be convinced if you have stronger evidence.
People using plenty of critical thinking. It honestly just feels like you’ve decided that the idea of the nerf in your head is the only viable one, and that’s quite narcissistic.
At the end of the day, the question worth asking is: Did the nerf make the card unplayable? If the answer is ‘no’, then the nerf is fine. Feel free to speculate whether or not the devs are trying to “deceive” you with their reasoning for choosing the way of nerfing that they did, but to what end?
You have a card that is still perfectly playable, so this obsessive need to try and blame the nerf on Baku seems rather pointless, and just for arguments sake, in an attempt to target your discontent at the devs.
The card is no longer auto include, which in my mind is a win for the game overall.
Unless a dev goes on record there won't be evidence indicating that equality was bumped up 2 due to Baku. Given that all the other nerfs were one and this one was two, all we can do is surmise the reason behind that. A 2 mana cost increase nerf doesn't happen that frequently, last one was GI and I can't even remember the one before that. In regards to my point regarding legendaries, again all we have to do is look at their actions (instead of statements or interviews). When was the last legendary nerf? Raza? I can't even remember. IMO they are indirectly nerfing legendaries by nerfing cheaper cards, the evidence for that would be the indirect Shudderwock nerf (when Grumble was the more logical target) and now this.
They can say whatever they want, and I have no issue with a for-profit company making money. I do have an issue with the classic set being screwed around with unnecessarily.
And Flametongue Totem + Voltaic Burst thats a 6 attack rush minion and a 4/3 body for only 3 mana and synarge very well with hero power ... thats insane
Cold Blood + Southsea Deckhand is a 6 attack charge minion for only 2 mana no need for leeroy and rogue always has a dildo in hand ...
nerfs seem that they all share the 1 fact .they all are insane cheap 2 cards combos ....