So after a particually frustrating game against an Open the Waygate/Archmage Antonidas Mage, I began running Kezan Mystic in every deck (I pretty much only play Wild btw). While it mostly made my deck worse overall (Although even stealing a shitty Paladin or Hunter secret is still fine), the very fact I had the chance to steal the Exodia Mage's Ice Block and watch them concede (which is what usually happens when I'd do so) was a sacrifice I was willing to play.
But what I wanted to know is if this was the best option? As y'all know, there are 4 specific anti-Secret cards. Flare, Kezan Mystic, Eater of Secrets, and Chief Inspector. I'll discuss each one a little and give my opinions. In the order they were released.
Flare: Only for Hunter, the class I probably play least. Can be used in Standard. Also techs against Stealth, which isn't very strong in my opinion. Also is countered by Counterspell, which is very frustrating.
Kezan Mystic: As I said before, this is the card I was running. It may not wipe Secrets like the other cards, but it instead steals it and gives it to you. The best option against Ice Block, and completely shuts down Exodia Mage. It's also really satisfying to play. If you control 5 Secrets, or the only Secrets are Secrets you both share, it simply destroys 1 instead (which is the weakest Secret wiping effect out of them all). A 4 mana 4/3, which is not the worst statline to have to play. So I don't mind playing it raw if I don't think my opponent has Secrets.
Eater of Secrets: I ran into a Shudderwock Shaman running this once. Has the potential to be a 4 mana 7/9 (suck it Flamewreathed Faceless) Easily the worst statline when played without Secrets though, so that's a risk.
Chief Inspector: The newbie from Witchwood, which saw mediocre reactions from everyone. Eater of Secrets, but without the +1/+ gain, and a more tolerable statline, so you can play it without feeling too bad if you're against a Secretless class or deck not running Secrets. It has the potential to be a better Kezan Mystic (Because say, nuking 3 Secrets is better than taking 1), unless you're only against 1 Secret, in which case Kezan Mystic is easily better. But it's never as good as Eater of Secrets. I like to think of it as a "middleline", between Kezan Mystic and Eater of Secrets, not as good as either at their specialties (versing 1 Secret and versing a lot respectively), but probably not as potentially bad as either. And keep in mind, being the middleground doesn't necessarily make it the worst.
So yeah, I hopefully didn't give too much of my "personal bias" about the cards. So now I leave this up to you guys!
EDIT: Just to clarify, I am talking from a Wild perspective. Yes in standard there are only two options (Flare and Eater of Secrets), but that has no baring on this discussion. The fact you can play them in standard makes them no better/worse in Wild. I just felt like I needed to point that out.
Cheaper than Chief Inspector, with a better effect than Kezan Mystic (it affects all enemy's secrets) and can be used in all classes.
Seems like most people think Flare is the best, based on the results so far. But yeah, I was expecting Eater of Secrets to be the best. Even though Kezan Mystic is my personal favourite.
First of all good for u for playing wild only. I do it too on my main account.
Secondly i run there aggro control and combo decks and personally i feel like running no anti secret card is ur best bet since only once out of several games u will need it. The top decks dont use secrets so i dont think u should run tech cards for it.
If u absolutely need it then a 5 mana 4/6 should be better across all matchups. But i wouldn't use any
First of all good for u for playing wild only. I do it too on my main account.
Secondly i run there aggro control and combo decks and personally i feel like running no anti secret card is ur best bet since only once out of several games u will need it. The top decks dont use secrets so i dont think u should run tech cards for it.
If u absolutely need it then a 5 mana 4/6 should be better across all matchups. But i wouldn't use any
I don't play "Wild only" per-se. Probably 90% of my games are Wild, but I do play Freeze Shaman in Standard. And that's pretty much it most of the time. I prefer Wild 100% more than standard though.
Secondly, I'm not really discussing whether or not secret tech is viable. But I do think it is a valid point to say that you are correct, the Wild meta is not a Secret heavy one. And yes, by running anti-Secret tech, my deck is worse. But it's just so damn satisfying to steal an Ice Block from an Exodia or Freeze Mage and watch them die.
Flare doesnt counter counterspell ironically. Inspector has a playable body as a 5 drop.
I mean I've never played Flare ever. Because I never play Hunter. But I'd imagine getting your Flare countered by Counterspell while the Mage has 5 Secrets has probably caused more concedes than not.
EDIT: Just to clarify, I am talking from a Wild perspective. Yes in standard there are only two options (Flare and Eater of Secrets), but that has no baring on this discussion. The fact you can play them in standard makes them no better/worse in Wild. I just felt like I needed to point that out.
As for the cards themselves, I think I generally prefer Eater of Secrets, simply because it deals well with all secret-based decks that otherwise could cause you a problem. There are times when stealing a secret may be more of a hindrance, or you don't get the right one etc. Not top mention that the opponent knows what the secret is, and so will easily be able to counter it if need be.
I completely get the whole Ice Block thing and why that is satisfying (and it is) - but it's a bit too situational, so the EoS takes it for me as it covers more bases, even with the lower statline.
Final point - for me, 4 health with less attack is more valuable than 3 health and more attack. There are many more ways to clear a 3 health minion than a 4 health one.
2- Two secrets, steal one is the same than destroy both in terms of card advantage, draw.
3- 3 or more secrets, destroy is better.
How many times the opponent have 3 or more secrets? Except for secret paladin is much more like you trigger the secrets before the opponent play the third one, the majority os scenarios is 1 or 2 secrets when you can use the tech, so, unless you face paladin secret in regular basis Kezan is superior.
How many times the opponent have 3 or more secrets?
Hunter is literally the most played class in the meta right now. The Spell and Secret versions heavily outweigh the Beast version (which aslo plays secrets anyway) You are incredibly likely to face off against multiple secrets in the current meta.
Except for secret paladin is much more like you trigger the secrets before the opponent play the third one, .
A good player would only do this if he was absolutely sure he had a way to counter the secret or deal with the outcome. In most cases a good player will not attack into secrets just to trigger them. This is a low skill play and should not be done. To this end, the likelihood of popping the first two secrets which almost always occur betweens 2 and 4 for Hunter is very low, so you will likely get very good value from a card like Eater of Secrets, along with much better stat line than Kezan.
Second, I have literally never ran into Emperor Thaurissan before in Quest Mage. Wouldn't that be too slow? Especially because part of the reason stealing an Ice Block from Quest Mage is because it doesn't trigger for them, ergo, you can kill them.
Second, I have literally never ran into Emperor Thaurissan before in Quest Mage. Wouldn't that be too slow? Especially because part of the reason stealing an Ice Block from Quest Mage is because it doesn't trigger for them, ergo, you can kill them.
Not shameful at all, it's just as valid of a strategy as any other, with the added benefit of being more challenging than most.
It is not too slow. I don't run random spell generators aside from 2 Primordial Glyphs, the rest of the deck is the combo, Quest, Thaurissan, stall tools and card draw. Nothing else is in the deck, and I need nothing else.
Obviously, if you can remove their Ice Block and kill them, you win the game. But if you are not running a fast deck, you might not be able to kill them. That would be the entire point of using Kezan Mystic, to steal Ice Block to prevent them from killing you, if you are not fast enough to kill them. Kezan steals a random secret, if they have multiple, you might not steal the Block, and there are instances where that would be the case (If they have two secrets and you are going to kill them with Burn, you cannot disable the Barrier is you are frozen for example, so you can't guaranteed the Block steal.
I personally run both Thaurissan and the Quest because having both allows me to beat any Mage with Ice Block, any Priest that copies/steals my Blocks, or any Warrior that goes above 150 Armour. With the Quest, you can deal 150~ Damage on the first turn, activate extra turn, and deal another 170~.
There's a reason Quest Mage is an extremely unpopular and hated deck to play against. Nor is it anymore challenging than any other control/otk deck (because most decks are more challenging than aggro). Now isn't the time or place to discuss whether or not Quest Mage is or isn't complete cancer, though.
Also, I'm gonna say that while I asked for it, this isn't really the place to discuss why you run cards in Quest Mage. So I'll accept what you've said so far, and end it there. We'll move on from Quest Mage and go back to talking about anti-secret techs. But what you have said about Kezan Mystic is valid.
I asked, you replied, and I said there was no more reason to talk about it after that reply. Ergo, don't try to get a parthian shot in, just drop it,
I don't understand to be honest, I mean you leave an incorrect remark on your replies, and expect me not to correct them?
Just as a rule to stick by. If truly don't want there to be more conversation on the subject, it might be best to end the conversation on a remark that is unlikely to be replied to. Telling me I should be ashamed of playing Infinite Burn Mage, or that the deck is not challenging to pilot when it is easily proven otherwise, is probably not the best way to do it. Specially when the reply is directed at me, because those I will see and likely reply to.
I really tried, but you've honestly completely beaten me there. The remark part, that is. Touché.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(V) (;,,;) (V)
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So after a particually frustrating game against an Open the Waygate/Archmage Antonidas Mage, I began running Kezan Mystic in every deck (I pretty much only play Wild btw). While it mostly made my deck worse overall (Although even stealing a shitty Paladin or Hunter secret is still fine), the very fact I had the chance to steal the Exodia Mage's Ice Block and watch them concede (which is what usually happens when I'd do so) was a sacrifice I was willing to play.
But what I wanted to know is if this was the best option? As y'all know, there are 4 specific anti-Secret cards. Flare, Kezan Mystic, Eater of Secrets, and Chief Inspector. I'll discuss each one a little and give my opinions. In the order they were released.
Flare: Only for Hunter, the class I probably play least. Can be used in Standard. Also techs against Stealth, which isn't very strong in my opinion. Also is countered by Counterspell, which is very frustrating.
Kezan Mystic: As I said before, this is the card I was running. It may not wipe Secrets like the other cards, but it instead steals it and gives it to you. The best option against Ice Block, and completely shuts down Exodia Mage. It's also really satisfying to play. If you control 5 Secrets, or the only Secrets are Secrets you both share, it simply destroys 1 instead (which is the weakest Secret wiping effect out of them all). A 4 mana 4/3, which is not the worst statline to have to play. So I don't mind playing it raw if I don't think my opponent has Secrets.
Eater of Secrets: I ran into a Shudderwock Shaman running this once. Has the potential to be a 4 mana 7/9 (suck it Flamewreathed Faceless) Easily the worst statline when played without Secrets though, so that's a risk.
Chief Inspector: The newbie from Witchwood, which saw mediocre reactions from everyone. Eater of Secrets, but without the +1/+ gain, and a more tolerable statline, so you can play it without feeling too bad if you're against a Secretless class or deck not running Secrets. It has the potential to be a better Kezan Mystic (Because say, nuking 3 Secrets is better than taking 1), unless you're only against 1 Secret, in which case Kezan Mystic is easily better. But it's never as good as Eater of Secrets. I like to think of it as a "middleline", between Kezan Mystic and Eater of Secrets, not as good as either at their specialties (versing 1 Secret and versing a lot respectively), but probably not as potentially bad as either. And keep in mind, being the middleground doesn't necessarily make it the worst.
So yeah, I hopefully didn't give too much of my "personal bias" about the cards. So now I leave this up to you guys!
EDIT: Just to clarify, I am talking from a Wild perspective. Yes in standard there are only two options (Flare and Eater of Secrets), but that has no baring on this discussion. The fact you can play them in standard makes them no better/worse in Wild. I just felt like I needed to point that out.
(V) (;,,;) (V)
Hands down Eater of Secrets.
Cheaper than Chief Inspector, with a better effect than Kezan Mystic (it affects all enemy's secrets) and can be used in all classes.
Seems like most people think Flare is the best, based on the results so far. But yeah, I was expecting Eater of Secrets to be the best. Even though Kezan Mystic is my personal favourite.
(V) (;,,;) (V)
First of all good for u for playing wild only. I do it too on my main account.
Secondly i run there aggro control and combo decks and personally i feel like running no anti secret card is ur best bet since only once out of several games u will need it. The top decks dont use secrets so i dont think u should run tech cards for it.
If u absolutely need it then a 5 mana 4/6 should be better across all matchups. But i wouldn't use any
I don't play "Wild only" per-se. Probably 90% of my games are Wild, but I do play Freeze Shaman in Standard. And that's pretty much it most of the time. I prefer Wild 100% more than standard though.
Secondly, I'm not really discussing whether or not secret tech is viable. But I do think it is a valid point to say that you are correct, the Wild meta is not a Secret heavy one. And yes, by running anti-Secret tech, my deck is worse. But it's just so damn satisfying to steal an Ice Block from an Exodia or Freeze Mage and watch them die.
(V) (;,,;) (V)
If paladin secret is less than 1% of your matches Kezan, if is more Eater.
Simple, but a fair point.
(V) (;,,;) (V)
Flare doesnt counter counterspell ironically. Inspector has a playable body as a 5 drop.
Fun > Meta
I mean I've never played Flare ever. Because I never play Hunter. But I'd imagine getting your Flare countered by Counterspell while the Mage has 5 Secrets has probably caused more concedes than not.
(V) (;,,;) (V)
I prefer kezan mystic, however, in certain decks it is good to run one eater and one or two mystics.
Skidaddle skidoodle your Milhouse manastorm is now a noodle
Eater or Kezan. Depends.
You mean the Chief Inspector I think. :-)
As for the cards themselves, I think I generally prefer Eater of Secrets, simply because it deals well with all secret-based decks that otherwise could cause you a problem. There are times when stealing a secret may be more of a hindrance, or you don't get the right one etc. Not top mention that the opponent knows what the secret is, and so will easily be able to counter it if need be.
I completely get the whole Ice Block thing and why that is satisfying (and it is) - but it's a bit too situational, so the EoS takes it for me as it covers more bases, even with the lower statline.
Final point - for me, 4 health with less attack is more valuable than 3 health and more attack. There are many more ways to clear a 3 health minion than a 4 health one.
Kezan vs Eater scenarios:
1- One secret, steal is far better than destroy.
2- Two secrets, steal one is the same than destroy both in terms of card advantage, draw.
3- 3 or more secrets, destroy is better.
How many times the opponent have 3 or more secrets? Except for secret paladin is much more like you trigger the secrets before the opponent play the third one, the majority os scenarios is 1 or 2 secrets when you can use the tech, so, unless you face paladin secret in regular basis Kezan is superior.
Hunter is literally the most played class in the meta right now. The Spell and Secret versions heavily outweigh the Beast version (which aslo plays secrets anyway)
You are incredibly likely to face off against multiple secrets in the current meta.
A good player would only do this if he was absolutely sure he had a way to counter the secret or deal with the outcome. In most cases a good player will not attack into secrets just to trigger them. This is a low skill play and should not be done. To this end, the likelihood of popping the first two secrets which almost always occur betweens 2 and 4 for Hunter is very low, so you will likely get very good value from a card like Eater of Secrets, along with much better stat line than Kezan.
First, shame on you for playing Quest Mage.
Second, I have literally never ran into Emperor Thaurissan before in Quest Mage. Wouldn't that be too slow? Especially because part of the reason stealing an Ice Block from Quest Mage is because it doesn't trigger for them, ergo, you can kill them.
(V) (;,,;) (V)
There's a reason Quest Mage is an extremely unpopular and hated deck to play against. Nor is it anymore challenging than any other control/otk deck (because most decks are more challenging than aggro). Now isn't the time or place to discuss whether or not Quest Mage is or isn't complete cancer, though.
Also, I'm gonna say that while I asked for it, this isn't really the place to discuss why you run cards in Quest Mage. So I'll accept what you've said so far, and end it there. We'll move on from Quest Mage and go back to talking about anti-secret techs. But what you have said about Kezan Mystic is valid.
(V) (;,,;) (V)
That just sounds like way too much. But I mean, it seems as though you prefer Eater of Secrets.
(V) (;,,;) (V)
I asked, you replied, and I said there was no more reason to talk about it after that reply. Ergo, don't try to get a parthian shot in, just drop it,
(V) (;,,;) (V)
Lol
I really tried, but you've honestly completely beaten me there. The remark part, that is. Touché.
(V) (;,,;) (V)