Hearthpwn

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from beardfasse >>

 That's a very sub-par argument. "Why do we need soap if you'll get dirty at the end of the day?" (basically)

Card games are all about odds. With no neutral anti-combo card it's almost impossible to win control vs combo mu. What's wrong about adding a card to standard which will increase the odds of winning to control players (and not only control players, btw). No one's asking for an insta-win card.

 Can you present a non Insta-Win Card that fits your needs?

Dirty Rat doesn't fit the need. It overwhelmingly presents Control players with an Insta-Win situation whenever player, almost nullifying the natural advantage of the Combo decks, in turn, placing Control in an imbalanced situation where they face no hard disadvantage against Combo, while retaining their heavy advantage against Aggro.

Wild mode already enables this to occur and only a heavy balance problem called Barnes overshadows it. You can build an what is an almost invincible deck, a highlander Warlock with Combo disruption tools. It has everything, excellent tools to deal with Aggro, enough removal to withstand Midrange, enough value to match Control and the tools to disrupt Combo (which only requires one or two card slots).

 I believe some guys get the wrong idea, that Control players demand a card that says: destroy the most expensive card in your opponents deck. Haha , there goes your Shirvalla/MechaTuhn.... 

They clearly printed MojoMaster Zihi with interrupting combos in mind. Wich is great vs MechaTuhn, but bad against Shirvalla , and Priests OTK , since they are achieving the ( almost) otk  with 7 mana I believe. 

To create a combo interupting card is probably not an easy task. Firebat an Brian Kibler talked about that on Omnistone. It would have to be something that makes it hard to complete the combo , but the combo player should have some ways to still make it happen.... 

Personally I dislike OTK decks for only one reason. The time I would face that favouruable matchup against a OddWarrior or a slow DR Hunter... It would give me 0 satisfaction beating that player. No matter how hard he try’s, no matter how often we meet. knowing I won because of my deck, not because I outsmarted or even got lucky ( or he) . It would feel like playing Chess but all my figures are Queens ( besides one king ofc) . 

At the moment I play my midrange/ Controlish eggPaladin , and just had a game against an oddrouge, he had a good start ,and beat me . But I know usually I should be slightly favored. Next game we meet again and after a longer game with Mira’s element etc. i was finally able to stabilize.  No one of us ( probably) felt like he was heavily favored,or had zero chances. Decisions , taking risk, and luck ofc, all that and more made those games... simply fun . Do you have The same feeling playing an OTK deck? 

( I know OTK decks can be hard to pilot, but do you really feel happy beating an OddWarrior,or another OTK deck where you had all your cycle first?  ) 

Quote from Wingdude22 >>

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from beardfasse >>

 That's a very sub-par argument. "Why do we need soap if you'll get dirty at the end of the day?" (basically)

Card games are all about odds. With no neutral anti-combo card it's almost impossible to win control vs combo mu. What's wrong about adding a card to standard which will increase the odds of winning to control players (and not only control players, btw). No one's asking for an insta-win card.

 Can you present a non Insta-Win Card that fits your needs?

Dirty Rat doesn't fit the need. It overwhelmingly presents Control players with an Insta-Win situation whenever player, almost nullifying the natural advantage of the Combo decks, in turn, placing Control in an imbalanced situation where they face no hard disadvantage against Combo, while retaining their heavy advantage against Aggro.

Wild mode already enables this to occur and only a heavy balance problem called Barnes overshadows it. You can build an what is an almost invincible deck, a highlander Warlock with Combo disruption tools. It has everything, excellent tools to deal with Aggro, enough removal to withstand Midrange, enough value to match Control and the tools to disrupt Combo (which only requires one or two card slots).

 

At the moment I play my midrange/ Controlish eggPaladin , and just had a game against an oddrouge, he had a good start ,and beat me . But I know usually I should be slightly favored. Next game we meet again and after a longer game with Mira’s element etc. i was finally able to stabilize.  No one of us ( probably) felt like he was heavily favored,or had zero chances. Decisions , taking risk, and luck ofc, all that and more made those games... simply fun . Do you have The same feeling playing an OTK deck? 

( I know OTK decks can be hard to pilot, but do you really feel happy beating an OddWarrior,or another OTK deck where you had all your cycle first?  ) 

Of course I have the same feeling playing an OTK deck. If I enjoy the playstyle why wouldn't I enjoy it just because others have a reason for why they don't like it?

I'm also not sure what your experience is with playing OTK decks but it is generally vs aggro and midrange decks that your most skill testing games as an OTK deck come out. For many of these decks you have to decide first of all what your win condition is. Is it still your OTK? Can your deck win another way if you throw your pieces away for tempo (some OTK decks can do this while others don't do this as well, such as Mecha'Thun Priest)? If you need your OTK to win are there any combo pieces you can throw away or commit for tempo to stay alive and still pull of a win with reduced OTK burst or less consistency in the late game combo if you throw a less vital piece away. 

I think you have it all wrong by looking for the most skill in an OTK deck by comparing it to control. OTK/Combo has always been meant to punish slow greed, so naturally it will always be favored over aggressive match-ups and result in fewer difficult decisions when not matched up against aggressive decks. I get a lot of satisfaction and feel proud of games when I am facing a very aggressive and threatening opponent and decide that I need to throw away combo pieces to change or completely overhaul my win condition for the game (I do this all of the time with my Spectral Pillager Rogue in wild vs things like Odd Pally, Pirate Warrior, and sometimes Odd Rogue & Even Shaman). It may seem to hard to accept that other players & playstyles achieve the same experiences you do (just with different match-ups), but believe me it happens. Hating on a playstyle doesn't suddenly take its skill-testing and/or enjoyable aspects away for other people.

EDIT: To turn your argument on its head I could ask if you stop feeling enjoyment for playing control when you get matched up against very favorable match-ups for your particular control deck? Does the existence of favorable match-ups for control make it so that control takes less skill and rewards you with less enjoyment? See how silly the question is?

No one likes to play against otk, but lets not lie. Control decks would be even more played, and no one wants them. We dont need more ppl telling "control needs brain unlike aggro" 

Quote from Wingdude22 >>

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from beardfasse >>

 That's a very sub-par argument. "Why do we need soap if you'll get dirty at the end of the day?" (basically)

Card games are all about odds. With no neutral anti-combo card it's almost impossible to win control vs combo mu. What's wrong about adding a card to standard which will increase the odds of winning to control players (and not only control players, btw). No one's asking for an insta-win card.

 Can you present a non Insta-Win Card that fits your needs?

Dirty Rat doesn't fit the need. It overwhelmingly presents Control players with an Insta-Win situation whenever player, almost nullifying the natural advantage of the Combo decks, in turn, placing Control in an imbalanced situation where they face no hard disadvantage against Combo, while retaining their heavy advantage against Aggro.

Wild mode already enables this to occur and only a heavy balance problem called Barnes overshadows it. You can build an what is an almost invincible deck, a highlander Warlock with Combo disruption tools. It has everything, excellent tools to deal with Aggro, enough removal to withstand Midrange, enough value to match Control and the tools to disrupt Combo (which only requires one or two card slots).

 I believe some guys get the wrong idea, that Control players demand a card that says: destroy the most expensive card in your opponents deck. Haha , there goes your Shirvalla/MechaTuhn.... 

They clearly printed MojoMaster Zihi with interrupting combos in mind. Wich is great vs MechaTuhn, but bad against Shirvalla , and Priests OTK , since they are achieving the ( almost) otk  with 7 mana I believe. 

To create a combo interupting card is probably not an easy task. Firebat an Brian Kibler talked about that on Omnistone. It would have to be something that makes it hard to complete the combo , but the combo player should have some ways to still make it happen.... 

Personally I dislike OTK decks for only one reason. The time I would face that favouruable matchup against a OddWarrior or a slow DR Hunter... It would give me 0 satisfaction beating that player. No matter how hard he try’s, no matter how often we meet. knowing I won because of my deck, not because I outsmarted or even got lucky ( or he) . It would feel like playing Chess but all my figures are Queens ( besides one king ofc) . 

At the moment I play my midrange/ Controlish eggPaladin , and just had a game against an oddrouge, he had a good start ,and beat me . But I know usually I should be slightly favored. Next game we meet again and after a longer game with Mira’s element etc. i was finally able to stabilize.  No one of us ( probably) felt like he was heavily favored,or had zero chances. Decisions , taking risk, and luck ofc, all that and more made those games... simply fun . Do you have The same feeling playing an OTK deck? 

( I know OTK decks can be hard to pilot, but do you really feel happy beating an OddWarrior,or another OTK deck where you had all your cycle first?  ) 

Thijs vs Osaka Freeze Mage mirror was the most interesting HS game ever.  I've watched it a half dozen times.  Control Warrior mirrors?  I use them when I have difficulty falling asleep.

Quote from Lyra_Silvertongue >>

Quote from Wingdude22 >>

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from beardfasse >>

 That's a very sub-par argument. "Why do we need soap if you'll get dirty at the end of the day?" (basically)

Card games are all about odds. With no neutral anti-combo card it's almost impossible to win control vs combo mu. What's wrong about adding a card to standard which will increase the odds of winning to control players (and not only control players, btw). No one's asking for an insta-win card.

 Can you present a non Insta-Win Card that fits your needs?

Dirty Rat doesn't fit the need. It overwhelmingly presents Control players with an Insta-Win situation whenever player, almost nullifying the natural advantage of the Combo decks, in turn, placing Control in an imbalanced situation where they face no hard disadvantage against Combo, while retaining their heavy advantage against Aggro.

Wild mode already enables this to occur and only a heavy balance problem called Barnes overshadows it. You can build an what is an almost invincible deck, a highlander Warlock with Combo disruption tools. It has everything, excellent tools to deal with Aggro, enough removal to withstand Midrange, enough value to match Control and the tools to disrupt Combo (which only requires one or two card slots).

 

At the moment I play my midrange/ Controlish eggPaladin , and just had a game against an oddrouge, he had a good start ,and beat me . But I know usually I should be slightly favored. Next game we meet again and after a longer game with Mira’s element etc. i was finally able to stabilize.  No one of us ( probably) felt like he was heavily favored,or had zero chances. Decisions , taking risk, and luck ofc, all that and more made those games... simply fun . Do you have The same feeling playing an OTK deck? 

( I know OTK decks can be hard to pilot, but do you really feel happy beating an OddWarrior,or another OTK deck where you had all your cycle first?  ) 

Of course I have the same feeling playing an OTK deck. If I enjoy the playstyle why wouldn't I enjoy it just because others have a reason for why they don't like it?

I'm also not sure what your experience is with playing OTK decks but it is generally vs aggro and midrange decks that your most skill testing games as an OTK deck come out. For many of these decks you have to decide first of all what your win condition is. Is it still your OTK? Can your deck win another way if you throw your pieces away for tempo (some OTK decks can do this while others don't do this as well, such as Mecha'Thun Priest)? If you need your OTK to win are there any combo pieces you can throw away or commit for tempo to stay alive and still pull of a win with reduced OTK burst or less consistency in the late game combo if you throw a less vital piece away. 

I think you have it all wrong by looking for the most skill in an OTK deck by comparing it to control. OTK/Combo has always been meant to punish slow greed, so naturally it will always be favored over aggressive match-ups and result in fewer difficult decisions when not matched up against aggressive decks. I get a lot of satisfaction and feel proud of games when I am facing a very aggressive and threatening opponent and decide that I need to throw away combo pieces to change or completely overhaul my win condition for the game (I do this all of the time with my Spectral Pillager Rogue in wild vs things like Odd Pally, Pirate Warrior, and sometimes Odd Rogue & Even Shaman). It may seem to hard to accept that other players & playstyles achieve the same experiences you do (just with different match-ups), but believe me it happens. Hating on a playstyle doesn't suddenly take its skill-testing and/or enjoyable aspects away for other people.

EDIT: To turn your argument on its head I could ask if you stop feeling enjoyment for playing control when you get matched up against very favorable match-ups for your particular control deck? Does the existence of favorable match-ups for control make it so that control takes less skill and rewards you with less enjoyment? See how silly the question is?

 Like I wrote, I know there is skill involved playing OTK decks, and I don’t want them away or a " I kill your wincondition " tech card. I just can see the point of people who play a Control deck and wonder if that’s actually fun, or rewarding if you triumph. 

And to your argument, my deck doesn’t have any high favored matchups. I even take cards out if I feel they make a slightly favorite matchup even more unloseable ( no cubes or umbra) . And even if I had such a good matchup, it would feel rather unsatisfying playing it out.

When you play a certain deck, yes, we understand that there are bad matchups were the odds are already way against you. But the thing people are talking about is the fact that you just plain lose before the match even begins. There has to be a balance between having the odds stacked agaisnt you and just plain insta-losing just based on what you like to play. That's not fun and interactive gameplay, that's just lazy design.

 IQuote from Nickfuryusn >>

When you play a certain deck, yes, we understand that there are bad matchups were the odds are already way against you. But the thing people are talking about is the fact that you just plain lose before the match even begins. There has to be a balance between having the odds stacked agaisnt you and just plain insta-losing just based on what you like to play. That's not fun and interactive gameplay, that's just lazy design.

 Maybe a deck that insta loses against a bunch of other decks is just a BAD deck.

Quote from Nickfuryusn >>

When you play a certain deck, yes, we understand that there are bad matchups were the odds are already way against you. But the thing people are talking about is the fact that you just plain lose before the match even begins. There has to be a balance between having the odds stacked agaisnt you and just plain insta-losing just based on what you like to play. That's not fun and interactive gameplay, that's just lazy design.

Sometimes this is on the fault of the players, not the design of the cards. Two great examples of this in the past were both Taunt Druid & especially Token Druid. Both decks were more or less created by the players, not forced archtypes in a single set that T5 created.

Taunt Druid pigeonholed itself into a strong, yet gimmicky taunt attrition win condition. Yet the deck's win rate massively took a plunge the moment it faced any deck running Poly or Hex. The deck didn't really run an alternate win condition in those scenarios outside of 'play more big taunts' or cube some big stuff.

Token Druid was an incredible one trick pony. Players revived the token druid deck, jumping on the Whispering Wods hype train, with great success. The only problem? You almost always instantly lost to Defile, Hellfire, Devolve, & Psychic Scream. Let's not mention that some of the decks that run those cards could also just play only 1-2 minions for the rest of the game after dealing with WW in order to never be threatened by Plague + SotF. 

If you're losing to OTK decks before the game even begins then chances are whatever you're playing is like the Taunt Druid & Token Druid of before; a deck that relies too much on one thing. For example, which is more at fault for creating a polarizing scenario, an OTK deck like Mecha'Thun Lock or Malygos Druid that has a slow win condition but can still win some games if they lose their OTK or Odd Warrior, which relies just on killing everything and chucking out throwaway minions for something to do? When Odd Warrior can't beat you by out grinding you then what are they going to do to pull of a win exactly? They have a very few options and in that specific case it is the fault of players for building Odd Warrior to rely on nothing but grinding out the other player to win. T5 didn't say that the community needed to build the deck that way, and thus almost always instantly lose to many OTK decks, but the players pigeionholed the deck into that.

OTKs, or any deck for that matter, that co-creates a polarizing match-up isn't always at fault for that by nature. If you have a deck that only does one thing then by consequence you are going to lose to things that your deck doesn't target. We shouldn't go around nerfing things to favor one trick pony decks (which includes OTKs that can't win without the OTK).

You just validated the point against OTK. The current OTK decks are the very definition of one trick pony decks. With the mechathuns, the Uther of the Ebon blades etc, the decks would just be a bunch of card draw with no chance to win against any deck. With control decks, a smart player can decide to play minions on tempo for example and smorc if they need to. OTK decks rely on one card to make the whole deck work.

Quote from Nickfuryusn >>

You just validated the point against OTK. The current OTK decks are the very definition of one trick pony decks. With the mechathuns, the Uther of the Ebon blades etc, the decks would just be a bunch of card draw with no chance to win against any deck. With control decks, a smart player can decide to play minions on tempo for example and smorc if they need to. OTK decks rely on one card to make the whole deck work.

You are wrong about OTK DK Paladin. It is NOT a one trick pony deck, many a times you win by making a large board with the help of  Shirvallah, Steed, Brewmasters and Lynessa etc or out armoring with Thekal against burst decks like Control Priest. DK is obviously the main win condition but burning or discarding it doesn't mean auto loss. Uther serves a purpose similar to what Jaina does in BSM (I hope you don't think BSM is a one trick pony deck). 

One trick pony decks are Topsy Priest, Mechathun decks etc where if you lose one combo piece you are most likely to lose. 

Quote from Nickfuryusn >>

You just validated the point against OTK. The current OTK decks are the very definition of one trick pony decks. With the mechathuns, the Uther of the Ebon blades etc, the decks would just be a bunch of card draw with no chance to win against any deck. With control decks, a smart player can decide to play minions on tempo for example and smorc if they need to. OTK decks rely on one card to make the whole deck work.

 You have a clear lack of understanding of OTK decks.  I assume you never play them.

Suppose I’m playing a Kinghts of the Ebon Blade deck {IOW, no Holy Wrath) against a Control deck.  In that case, I’m playing for a OTK - specifically by collecting and playing the Horseman.  Now suppose I’m playing the same deck against Odd Rogue.  I’m no longer playing a OTK deck.  The OTK is a pipe dream.  I’m playing a Control deck.  If the stars align, I will survive long enough to play and bounce the Tiger.  Heal up to full, and watch the Rogue die in fatigue.

Now decks like Holy Wrath Paladin or Malygos Druid have even more win conditions.  The only decks that’s are one trick ponies are the Control decks whose ONLY win condition is fatigue.  As far as I am concerned, they deserve to lose 100% of the time.

Quote from TardisGreen >>

Quote from Nickfuryusn >>

You just validated the point against OTK. The current OTK decks are the very definition of one trick pony decks. With the mechathuns, the Uther of the Ebon blades etc, the decks would just be a bunch of card draw with no chance to win against any deck. With control decks, a smart player can decide to play minions on tempo for example and smorc if they need to. OTK decks rely on one card to make the whole deck work.

 You have a clear lack of understanding of OTK decks.  I assume you never play them.

Suppose I’m playing a Kinghts of the Ebon Blade deck {IOW, no Holy Wrath) against a Control deck.  In that case, I’m playing for a OTK - specifically by collecting and playing the Horseman.  Now suppose I’m playing the same deck against Odd Rogue.  I’m no longer playing a OTK deck.  The OTK is a pipe dream.  I’m playing a Control deck.  If the stars align, I will survive long enough to play and bounce the Tiger.  Heal up to full, and watch the Rogue die in fatigue.

Now decks like Holy Wrath Paladin or Malygos Druid have even more win conditions.  The only decks that’s are one trick ponies are the Control decks whose ONLY win condition is fatigue.  As far as I am concerned, they deserve to lose 100% of the time.

 

 This right here.  As someone who Primarily play's Control or Combo, I find fatigue decks to be very boring to play with and against...This is why I don't feel bad when my Shirvallah Deathknight OTK deck just rolls over them without effort.  If your deck doesn't have a flexible win condition then you're gonna have problems.  

Oh boy lol. Show me on the doll where the control deck touched you. I have nothing really against any type of decks but if you entire deck revolves around one card such as mechathun and nothing else, I dont feel sorry for your game gets ruined because that one card that enables your dumb otk deck is somehow removed. That's how it should be, live or die by that one card.

As I see it, OTK decks need to be present in some form so full greed control doesn't have free reign. i remember the days of Control warrior, where it basically came down to whether they drew Brawl in time and then they'D just win by virtue of not dying.

That said, too many OTK decks are a problem because they are the least interactive decks to play against. PLaying againsst hypercycle Mecha'thun Druid is no fun. They just armor up and burn through their entire deck and your only option (even as a midrange deck) is to pump out as much damage per turn as possible. No real decisions involved.

BUt there'S also OTK decks that can be beaten. Mecha'thun Warlock only needs to be brought to 4 health or lower and they can't execute the combo anymore. Malygos also has limited damage annd can be pressured into using combo pieces to remove threats.

I think Team 5 need to have a think about what a combo deck should be.

There shouldn't be these zero thought combo decks that make you instant win. Otk DK Paladin is a great combo deck as an example. It's fairly challenging to pilot, the combo isn't that quick unless you draw the absolute nuts and it's not always guaranteed to complete first time. It makes a challenge to play and you have a chance playing against it.

Mecha'thun decks are not challenging to play and the combo is guaranteed to go off without some kind of intervention that almost all classes do not have access to. Warlock is probably the best at countering combo but other classes have little to no options. Yeah a mage could play runes or counterspell depending on the match but you easily play around that.

The only thing I like about mecha'thun decks is they are a hard counter to odd warrior which will be the absolute nuts once the rotation takes place. That's another single player deck on the other end of the spectrum, all removal and no interaction. Win because your opponent can't get through all that armour whilst having all their threats easily removed with very little thought.

I personally don't see a problem with OTK decks however I do understand your complaint some games can become boring but I think it's a necessary evil to prevent control decks from dominating the meta. Most otk’s can be played around in some way or another.

Mech’tun and hakkar

Hakkar and a full hand

Paladin... Next please

Quote from DiamondDM13 >>

Quote from Wingdude22 >>

 I believe some guys get the wrong idea, that Control players demand a card that says: destroy the most expensive card in your opponents deck. Haha , there goes your Shirvalla/MechaTuhn.... 

They clearly printed MojoMaster Zihi with interrupting combos in mind. Wich is great vs MechaTuhn, but bad against Shirvalla , and Priests OTK , since they are achieving the ( almost) otk  with 7 mana I believe. 

To create a combo interupting card is probably not an easy task. Firebat an Brian Kibler talked about that on Omnistone. It would have to be something that makes it hard to complete the combo , but the combo player should have some ways to still make it happen.... 

Personally I dislike OTK decks for only one reason. The time I would face that favouruable matchup against a OddWarrior or a slow DR Hunter... It would give me 0 satisfaction beating that player. No matter how hard he try’s, no matter how often we meet. knowing I won because of my deck, not because I outsmarted or even got lucky ( or he) . It would feel like playing Chess but all my figures are Queens ( besides one king ofc) . 

At the moment I play my midrange/ Controlish eggPaladin , and just had a game against an oddrouge, he had a good start ,and beat me . But I know usually I should be slightly favored. Next game we meet again and after a longer game with Mira’s element etc. i was finally able to stabilize.  No one of us ( probably) felt like he was heavily favored,or had zero chances. Decisions , taking risk, and luck ofc, all that and more made those games... simply fun . Do you have The same feeling playing an OTK deck? 

( I know OTK decks can be hard to pilot, but do you really feel happy beating an OddWarrior,or another OTK deck where you had all your cycle first?  ) 

 No, Control players want a card that allows them to easily disrupt the Combo player. Which, when you put it into perspective, that Combo decks, when disrupted, fall apart, and become unable to win the game, turns these cards into Auto-Win Cards. This is the entire issue.

They are not requesting cards to delay their win condition, they request cards to actually remove the win condition to prevent them from winning.

Zihi is great, it disrupts Combo decks by delaying them, without removing the Win Condition and removing the opportunity for the Combo deck to Win. This is great design.

Well, that is your personal taste. I do enjoy going with OTKs against slow decks, although honestly, I enjoy far more to go with a Control Slow deck against an OTK deck. It is a really hard challenge, and I enjoy hard challenges.

I feel like the difference, again, comes from the perspective players have. I come the perspective of someone with a lot of experience playing Combo decks. I know how to pilot these decks, but I also know how to exploit their weaknesses when I'm playing against them. I can imagine someone who doesn't play Combo regularly might not feel like they have any control over the matchups. I don't feel that way at all. If I'm playing Control against a Combo deck, I usually have played that exact Combo deck a lot, sometimes even more than the playing I'm facing did. I'm in the position where I know exactly how I can beat them, even if I have low chances, I still know what I can do.

Honest question, but how many of the Control players that hate facing Combo decks actually have extensive experience with said Combo decks?

Quote from Mashuu >>

No one likes to play against otk, but lets not lie. Control decks would be even more played, and no one wants them. We dont need more ppl telling "control needs brain unlike aggro" 

 I like to play against OTK. I like both playing OTK and playing against OTK, no matter what playstyle I'm using.

 If you play control too you should understand a lot of the complaints and frustration that control players have (which is not the fault of combo players or the game) is the inherent playstyle of the control vs. combo matchups. It feels terrible for control players because the matches take fairly long just for them to end up losing most of the time since its a bad matchup. The same applies for heavy midrange decks, they are also unfavored versus combo decks and the matchups take awhile just to end up losing. The easy solution is to just auto concede to not waste time, but that just feels awful since most players are competitive people. 

Aggro, low curved midrange/tempo, combo players have the luxury of games ending fast regardless if they are unfavored or not, so they don't feel like they wasted a lot of time when it is unfavored for them. And even if matchups do end up taking a long time for combo players, they are usually favored(i.e. against control), so it's not a complete waste of time for them.

Like I said, no one is of fault here, its just the inherent playstyle of control and heavy midrange decks (they always have the hardest time). I just want to point out to y'all that this is most likely where all the frustration stems from. Coincidentally, these are the 2 archetypes that are dying in Hearthstone atm, meanwhile back then, these 2 archetypes were one of the most popular ones while combo were almost non-existent, besides freeze mage and combo druid. 

I personally don't see a problem with OTK decks however I do understand your complaint some games can become boring but I think it's a necessary evil to prevent control decks from dominating the meta. Most otk’s can be played around in some way or another.

Mech’tun and hakkar

Hakkar and a full hand

Paladin... Next please

 

Can people STOP saying combo decks need to exist to keep control decks in check. How is the control archetype even remotely popular right now, unlike combo, which is everywhere. Odd warrior, BSM, Controlock are the semi played control decks and they aren't even remotely popular unlike combo decks. Look at back in the days, control decks were everywhere but you didn't see the game collapsing to it's doom. As a matter of fact, it's arguable that most people found the old days a much better experience than now.

Nah, still just as fun since I'm going to rush face anyway.  This a just a 'control deserve to win' win thread.  Sad really.

Quote from Apoc7 >>

 

I personally don't see a problem with OTK decks however I do understand your complaint some games can become boring but I think it's a necessary evil to prevent control decks from dominating the meta. Most otk’s can be played around in some way or another.

Mech’tun and hakkar

Hakkar and a full hand

Paladin... Next please

 

 

Can people STOP saying combo decks need to exist to keep control decks in check. How is the control archetype even remotely popular right now, unlike combo, which is everywhere. Odd warrior, BSM, Controlock are the semi played control decks and they aren't even remotely popular unlike combo decks. Look at back in the days, control decks were everywhere but you didn't see the game collapsing to it's doom. As a matter of fact, it's arguable that most people found the old days a much better experience than now.

 

 You forgot control priest, you know the counter to all those hunter decks.