I love playing control but I can't because there are so many games that are free wins for my opponents. I'm OK with OTK but we need hand disruption to have a chance against them. Bring Dirty Rat back to standard.
If your deck is a "free win" for your (OTK) opponent, it is just a bad deck. If you play this one dimensional crap like Odd Warrior, accept the consequences.
I don't accept the consequences I join the bullshit OTK community and have a 80% winrate with mechatun warlock based on my last night matches 12-3 (I neved played this deck before). We can all join this bullshit meta and destroy the game together, it's so nice and so "fun".
If one plays a slow Control deck that has no solid wincondition within the first 10-15 turns, and gets smashed by an OTK after that, well they deserve to lose.
The same way an Aggro deck deserves to lose if it fails to achieve victory within the first 7-8 turns.
As long as OTK decks are not as efficient and consistent as Control at reacting against faster decks, I don't really see the problem (ie, it was a real issue with Aviana/Kun Druid before the nerfs).
Are current OTK Paladin/Priest and Mecha'thun that efficient against the best Aggro/Midrange decks?
I only find it frustrating when I'm playing OTK Pala and I meet some Mecha'thun deck. Even with time-out up, I die. I know that's intended but my hero is supposedly immune so, kinda makes me want to rage quit at that point. If immunity doesn't counter Mecha'thun, what does.
Nothing, because winning > immune.
And why are you raging about this? If you play such a matchups it's rng based which player gets their powerful turns (Call to arms on 5, Uther on 9). That's how it's meant to be.
How exactly is the existence of multiple viable strategies, even OTK ones, not good?
The more strategies people have access to and can utilise to have fun, the better. I have a really hard time thinking of a reason why more options for strategies is a problem in a Strategy Card Game.
I saw a pro on twitter put it like this: too many match ups felt like they were "I play a card. It's removed by a spell. And then I die from 30." And that's the entire game.
There is (a) too much spell-based removal, (b) too many ways to die from 30 in one turn, (c) not enough ways to interrupt dying from 30; or (d) not enough good aggro.
I think it's probably some combination of all of these.
ITT: waaaah, my no-real-win-condition grinder keeps getting rekt by pesky OTK/Combo decks! Blizz plzzzzz
Yesterday I watched Allie two-shotting one of those Warriors with Clone Priest while he was at nearly 80 HP. Guess what? It felt so fucking good! You don't like dying to them? Well, you're free to adapt to your local meta (or come over here to rant in the salt thread)
People are really under rating Mojomaster Zihi. I had a game recently against a Mecha'thun Priest as Control Mage and I Mojomaster'd and Zola'd it! Double got him!!
I don't really mind it, the metas I hate usually involve aggro being all you face.
Interestingly enough, Demonic Project Warlock isn't played to counter the otk decks, probably because without Druids being the force they were the deck loses targets. Plus it's not a great deck to play vs. this Hunter meta.
I remember when "OTK" was Force of Nature/Savage Roar, Freeze Mage, and classic Miracle or Maly Rogue, and the burst combos topped out at 25-ish damage. Nowadays, Maly burst combos can get into the 50-60 damage range, APM Topsy-Turvy priest has essentially infinite damage, and Mecha'thun is a literal "assemble and auto-win" card. At least OTK Uther Paladin has some RNG to it.
The old Freeze Mage vs Control Warrior match was great, since it wasn't an auto-win, and you had to get chip damage in along the entire game.
In a game with very little disruption like Hearthstone, OTK can be a bit too much. I don't really want Dirty Rat to come back (change is good), but there should be more tools for disrupting a deck like Mecha'thun.
//
The flip side is that warrior (a class I still love) and druid (a class I can't stand anymore), simply have far too much armor gain. I'm sure I said the warrior hero power upgrade should only be 3 armor when Justicar Trueheart was in Standard. Stuff like Branching Paths and Spreading Plague should be a lot weaker... Druids just have so many tools for stall, ramp, life-gain, and draw, and those tools often do multiple things. The ramp-cost nerf is good, but still.
OTK decks should not be allowed to exist in Hearthstone, atleast not the once that can kill you from full health. MechaThun was a poorly designed card. Old combo decks was better - Warlock deck with Leeroy, Power Overwhelming and Faceless for 20 damage was fair and also the savage roar + Force of nature was fair because you could atleast avoid the damage if you played priest and healed yourself. Ah that was the golden days of Hearthstone.
I remember when "OTK" was Force of Nature/Savage Roar, Freeze Mage, and classic Miracle or Maly Rogue, and the burst combos topped out at 25-ish damage. Nowadays, Maly burst combos can get into the 50-60 damage range, APM Topsy-Turvy priest has essentially infinite damage, and Mecha'thun is a literal "assemble and auto-win" card. At least OTK Uther Paladin has some RNG to it.
The old Freeze Mage vs Control Warrior match was great, since it wasn't an auto-win, and you had to get chip damage in along the entire game.
In a game with very little disruption like Hearthstone, OTK can be a bit too much. I don't really want Dirty Rat to come back (change is good), but there should be more tools for disrupting a deck like Mecha'thun.
//
The flip side is that warrior (a class I still love) and druid (a class I can't stand anymore), simply have far too much armor gain. I'm sure I said the warrior hero power upgrade should only be 3 armor when Justicar Trueheart was in Standard. Stuff like Branching Paths and Spreading Plague should be a lot weaker... Druids just have so many tools for stall, ramp, life-gain, and draw, and those tools often do multiple things. The ramp-cost nerf is good, but still.
//
Basically, power-creep has gone too far.
The "old Freeze Mage vs Control Warrior" matchup was basically unwinnable for Freeze Mage. CW "geniuses" could sit there and hit the button every turn and stay out of range. If you don't know this, you are a total noob.
Without RNG the playerbase would propably decline by 99%. I would like a full strategy + tactics based game with little RNG that requires adaptive gameplay ... but i played chess in the past an did beat a grandmaster so you can imagine what will happen to all casuals and new players .... That won´t make a lot of money ;-).
Sorry, OP, but you do not deserve to win every match because you play control. Such expectations are unreasonable, anyone who told you differently is a liar.
Games with RNG do NOT make losses fun in any way whatsoever.
I'd recommend chess then. Every card game naturally has RNG embedded to it's core due to card draws
To a certain extent, yes.
Not to the extent of, hey I drew Keleseth, Wild growth, Barnes *insert other bullshit card* on curve, guess my winrate increases by about 10-20%, fun stuff.
Or to the extent of "deal 2-3-4-5-6 damage" or "summon a random minion that may win you the game on the spot". God I love portals and those shaman spells.
We just need a universal anti-combo card that would at least give control a chance against combo. I'm talking Dirty Rat kind of card. It's not fun to lose a game after a fight, it's not fun to lose a game at the very start of it.
I don't accept the consequences I join the bullshit OTK community and have a 80% winrate with mechatun warlock based on my last night matches 12-3 (I neved played this deck before). We can all join this bullshit meta and destroy the game together, it's so nice and so "fun".
I will crush you!
If one plays a slow Control deck that has no solid wincondition within the first 10-15 turns, and gets smashed by an OTK after that, well they deserve to lose.
The same way an Aggro deck deserves to lose if it fails to achieve victory within the first 7-8 turns.
As long as OTK decks are not as efficient and consistent as Control at reacting against faster decks, I don't really see the problem (ie, it was a real issue with Aviana/Kun Druid before the nerfs).
Are current OTK Paladin/Priest and Mecha'thun that efficient against the best Aggro/Midrange decks?
No techs? Have you ever heard of Dirty Rat or Deathlord? Void Contract - although this one is kinda stupid if you are playing control -
Nothing, because winning > immune.
And why are you raging about this? If you play such a matchups it's rng based which player gets their powerful turns (Call to arms on 5, Uther on 9). That's how it's meant to be.
Always expect the unexpectable!
Control players complain about OTK decks. Aggro players complain about Control. OTK players complain about Aggro. Same shitty posts, every day.
Tech your decks, or stop playing.
Dad, husband, gamer, fueled by coffee.
Currently playing Dragon Galakrond Priest, Dragon Galakrond Warrior and Highlander Dragon Hunter.
I saw a pro on twitter put it like this: too many match ups felt like they were "I play a card. It's removed by a spell. And then I die from 30." And that's the entire game.
There is (a) too much spell-based removal, (b) too many ways to die from 30 in one turn, (c) not enough ways to interrupt dying from 30; or (d) not enough good aggro.
I think it's probably some combination of all of these.
ITT: waaaah, my no-real-win-condition grinder keeps getting rekt by pesky OTK/Combo decks! Blizz plzzzzz
Yesterday I watched Allie two-shotting one of those Warriors with Clone Priest while he was at nearly 80 HP. Guess what? It felt so fucking good! You don't like dying to them? Well, you're free to adapt to your local meta (or come over here to rant in the salt thread)
People are really under rating Mojomaster Zihi. I had a game recently against a Mecha'thun Priest as Control Mage and I Mojomaster'd and Zola'd it! Double got him!!
This.
seriously thank you so so much for saying this
I don't really mind it, the metas I hate usually involve aggro being all you face.
Interestingly enough, Demonic Project Warlock isn't played to counter the otk decks, probably because without Druids being the force they were the deck loses targets. Plus it's not a great deck to play vs. this Hunter meta.
I think a few of the OTKs have gotten too strong.
I remember when "OTK" was Force of Nature/Savage Roar, Freeze Mage, and classic Miracle or Maly Rogue, and the burst combos topped out at 25-ish damage. Nowadays, Maly burst combos can get into the 50-60 damage range, APM Topsy-Turvy priest has essentially infinite damage, and Mecha'thun is a literal "assemble and auto-win" card. At least OTK Uther Paladin has some RNG to it.
The old Freeze Mage vs Control Warrior match was great, since it wasn't an auto-win, and you had to get chip damage in along the entire game.
In a game with very little disruption like Hearthstone, OTK can be a bit too much. I don't really want Dirty Rat to come back (change is good), but there should be more tools for disrupting a deck like Mecha'thun.
//
The flip side is that warrior (a class I still love) and druid (a class I can't stand anymore), simply have far too much armor gain. I'm sure I said the warrior hero power upgrade should only be 3 armor when Justicar Trueheart was in Standard. Stuff like Branching Paths and Spreading Plague should be a lot weaker... Druids just have so many tools for stall, ramp, life-gain, and draw, and those tools often do multiple things. The ramp-cost nerf is good, but still.
//
Basically, power-creep has gone too far.
OTK decks should not be allowed to exist in Hearthstone, atleast not the once that can kill you from full health. MechaThun was a poorly designed card. Old combo decks was better - Warlock deck with Leeroy, Power Overwhelming and Faceless for 20 damage was fair and also the savage roar + Force of nature was fair because you could atleast avoid the damage if you played priest and healed yourself. Ah that was the golden days of Hearthstone.
The "old Freeze Mage vs Control Warrior" matchup was basically unwinnable for Freeze Mage. CW "geniuses" could sit there and hit the button every turn and stay out of range. If you don't know this, you are a total noob.
This is so funny...
Three weeks ago everyone was complainting about the Hunterstone! Today is the OTK decks. Tomorrow will the the control ones!
Welcome to the planet earth!
I'd recommend chess then. Every card game naturally has RNG embedded to it's core due to card draws
Without RNG the playerbase would propably decline by 99%. I would like a full strategy + tactics based game with little RNG that requires adaptive gameplay ... but i played chess in the past an did beat a grandmaster so you can imagine what will happen to all casuals and new players .... That won´t make a lot of money ;-).
OTK decks are a lot of fun to play
Sorry, OP, but you do not deserve to win every match because you play control. Such expectations are unreasonable, anyone who told you differently is a liar.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
To a certain extent, yes.
Not to the extent of, hey I drew Keleseth, Wild growth, Barnes *insert other bullshit card* on curve, guess my winrate increases by about 10-20%, fun stuff.
Or to the extent of "deal 2-3-4-5-6 damage" or "summon a random minion that may win you the game on the spot". God I love portals and those shaman spells.
We just need a universal anti-combo card that would at least give control a chance against combo. I'm talking Dirty Rat kind of card. It's not fun to lose a game after a fight, it's not fun to lose a game at the very start of it.