Let's just remove all the playable cards and remove the restriction on Magma Rager so you can have 30 in your deck...
Seriously if they keep HoFing cards the basic set will become pointless.
Then again I much rather they copied the rotating core sets from MtG.
Spicing things up with having to make new sets. Not having to nerf or HOF basic set cards since they will rotate again
I am a great supporter for the rotating core set like MtG...
Or maybe just add cards to the classic set each year to make it bigger and bigger as time goes on... A great addition to the classic set would be whizbang the wonderful for example.. but cards like burgle and crystaline oracle that define a class should be added to the classic set...
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To live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in the suffer!
Please HoF more cards! That means I am going to craft more golden cards!!! Still painful about previous time when I didnt craft Ragnaros, and no golden version of Sylvana (and also missed free legendary murloc) loser...
Well I also don't find any card so much oppresive as to be HOFed. But I am not playing wild so some cards like DKs, hunter's spellstone etc, that I consider to be fairly OP, will not be a problem for me, but may be a problem for Wild players. So I personally think that since none of the current core-basic cards are too much oppresive, the wild community should speak its thoughts as to which cards are affecting it right now and will continue to affect the game after April. Again, this is only my personal opinion.
Well I also don't find any card so much oppresive as to be HOFed. But I am not playing wild so some cards like DKs, hunter's spellstone etc, that I consider to be fairly OP, will not be a problem for me, but may be a problem for Wild players. So I personally think that since none of the current core-basic cards are too much oppresive, the wild community should speak its thoughts as to which cards are affecting it right now and will continue to affect the game after April. Again, this is only my personal opinion.
hall of faming is only done to classic and basic cards and then are only available for wild... so wild players can say what cards should be HoF'd, but that wont change the experience for them... the reason HoF exists is to move cards from basic/classic to wild-only...
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To live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in the suffer!
prep can't go to hall of fame, the entirety of rogues spells would have to be readjusted. Every card printed has to take proper into consideration, so getting rid of it would mean all rogue spells need to be reduced in price. I seriously doubt they'd want that on their hands.
also decks with prep are never the "cancer" decks that dominate ladders. I really don't see why this would be HoF'd.
If you took prep from rogue you;d kill a lot of it's identity.
Are you kidding? Quest Rogue's consistent viability is almost entirely dependent on Prep. Also, which other Rogue cards would need to be rebalanced? Sap and Eviscerate are fine. Sprint is actually the correct mana cost for draw 4 (or at least it was until UI and the Nourish nerf). I guess Blade Flurry is probably wrong at that point...maybe. Vanish is fine at 6, being a worse Psychic Scream.
Seriously, what cards in Basic/Classic would need to change?
all the spells cost too much without prep. everything would need rebalanced. not to mention the next few expacs will be terrible as those spells will all be designed with prep in mind.
we're talking about the minions here too. the cost of rogue cards have prep factored in, you can't say that prep is not a factor when cards are printed. to remove prep would ruin rouge. what rogue does is part of it's identity.
I'm not saying that you won't be able to play rogue spells without prep, it will just make it terrible. part of what makes rogue strong is the ability to combo all these cards. edwin would become dumpster class as well as you wouldn't be able to combo enough cards to get him big enough to play.
the whole of rogue is built around prep, what I'm saying is if you just take out prep, rogue will suffer.
without a rebalance you kill off like 90% of the fun rogue builds. there are tons of rogue builds that would just become unplayable without prep, and these decks aren't even that competitive anyway.
I've never played quest rogue and I was on a break before the nerf. I don't think it's good now.
I actually think removing prep would be healthy, but rogue would suffer for it for at least a year till they started making new cards that were not built around prep.
In the hands of someone who knows how to pilot it, it is a Tier One deck. Even after three nerfs.
There honestly aren't any evergreens that are likely to be rotated - they've recently targeted Mana Wyrm and the Druid cards with nerfs, so unless those cards receive the Molten Giant treatment, which is unlikely, there isn't much else left. Perennial considerations, like Gadgetzan and Prep, simply don't see much play - Baku will squeeze them out of the format for another sixteen months. I notice some folks suggesting Malygos - but the card isn't close to being oppressive. Malygos decks have popped up from time to time in the past (which is presumably how Team 5 wants most evergreen cards to "behave"), but were mostly meme-tier until this past year, yet none of the current builds are remotely problematic.
As I play Wild, I do not care about the rotation or HOF other than I hope they do as they did with Molten Giant. Move Wild Growth and Nourish to HOF and unnerf them. I don't love Jade Druid, but I miss a viable combo druid deck. They could also do it for other nerfed classic cards. (and unnerf Yogg, so we can have some fun - the card will never enter competitive anyway.)
Honestly that's why I made this thread. You add a ton of cards and collectively work down to 2-4 that potentially need to be considered. I'll now re-evaluate and add 1-2 other flexes for further discussion.
Malygos: So I agree with many that it could be problematic. However, I'm more aligned with the folks who say the classic identity of spell power behind a powerful card needs to be preserved. I'd choose this to stay over Thalnos for example.
Preparation: This is the most 50/50 in the discussion board. I think if it was changed to HoF then ABSOLUTELY Rogue will need to be looked at and reconsidered in both spell quality and cost. However, I propose this nerf: Preparation- 1 mana, your next spell casted this turn costs 3 less. A simple mana nerf may be enough to keep its power, and not disrupt standard if they wish to keep it. (Following this, Northshire Cleric and other class identity staples that are auto-includes should also be considered for fairness.)
Leeroy: It seems solely for auto-include identity leeroy is being discussed. The same defense for Malygos applies that Archetype Identity from Classic should hopefully be preserved. For other purposes, maybe Leeroy will open up standard charge mechanics by being moved.
In addition I propose an update to Divine Favor: 4 mana: if your opponent has a larger hand than you, draw 3 cards, otherwise draw 2 cards. It's a rough mechanic but I feel a vanilla draw 2 for 1 more mana plus upside if the condition is met is fair. unfortunately the deal 3 draw 1: 4 mana card is then in the way from a design perspective. Thus I want to say that it's a decent addition to HoF.
So in the end it looks like: 1 rare, 1 epic, and potentially 1 legendary. I feel this is a fair Hall of Fame rotation.
Literally everything on this list is stupid. None of those cards are problematic. Most are strong cards in aggro, but they don't break the game at all. Aggro is healthy and necessary to balance the game. They aren't even that strong these days anyway. Freaking druid has been the best class and decks that don't run minions have been at the top of ladder for over a year. The best deck in the game: wild big priest is ridiculously greedy, and uninteractive and doesn't run a single minion under 8 mana..... (Barnes doesn't count). They hero power pass the first 4 turns of the game and win anyway most of the time.
The most likely candidate for HoF is Malygos and the reason you gave for it not being there is ridiculous! Breaking the game for lore purposes is soooooo unbelievably dumb. Oh yeah and by the way, if you actually paid attention to warcraft lore, dragons aren't even that strong! Technically speaking, the strongest 2 cards are N'Zoth, and Ysharaaj because They're the 2 strongest old gods which are 2nd in power only to the mighty Sargeras. Malygos is one of the big offenders in the current meta and makes games super repeatitive and uninteractive to play against. I HATE games where my opponent puts nothing on board. It makes a lot of minion-based strategies not viable (like heal your own minions priest). Minion trading is what makes the game fun, and aggro games allow that to take place and malygos doesn't.
Literally everything on this list is stupid. None of those cards are problematic. Most are strong cards in aggro, but they don't break the game at all. Aggro is healthy and necessary to balance the game. They aren't even that strong these days anyway. Freaking druid has been the best class and decks that don't run minions have been at the top of ladder for over a year. The best deck in the game: wild big priest is ridiculously greedy, and uninteractive and doesn't run a single minion under 8 mana..... (Barnes doesn't count). They hero power pass the first 4 turns of the game and win anyway most of the time.
The most likely candidate for HoF is Malygos and the reason you gave for it not being there is ridiculous! Breaking the game for lore purposes is soooooo unbelievably dumb. Oh yeah and by the way, if you actually paid attention to warcraft lore, dragons aren't even that strong! Technically speaking, the strongest 2 cards are N'Zoth, and Ysharaaj because They're the 2 strongest old gods which are 2nd in power only to the mighty Sargeras. Malygos is one of the big offenders in the current meta and makes games super repeatitive and uninteractive to play against. I HATE games where my opponent puts nothing on board. It makes a lot of minion-based strategies not viable (like heal your own minions priest). Minion trading is what makes the game fun, and aggro games allow that to take place and malygos doesn't.
Ok I'm 100% from a Standard approach, as I think are many. So yes if you're a wild player I understand if you disagree heavily. Once again my intention isn't for the entire list to go. I think too many people literally think I want to gut every card. I made a list of potentials and was seeing if the community would agree on 2-4 of them. Instead as is usual everyone fought yelled and name-called or just threw insults because they disagreed- go figure. But I have to say Wild is Wild for a reason. It is really difficult for a game to balance the amount of cards Hearthstone pushes out, especially in 3 sets a year of a schedule. Wild takes them all. I don't think one card that grants plus 5 spell power on a body for legendary cost with the stats it has is at all problematic. I think other combos make it strong and that's the point.
Yes please further show bad manners by taking a few words out of my post and running with it. I wanted to show the message that the baseline of the game released legendary dragons and THAT was a power basis for a variety of different styles (spell power, board clear, value, board fill etc). It would be rough to only remove one and not look at the others. It is the same defense for Leeroy and a few other cards: Classic existence and backing for archetypes that rotate in strength. The point is you always have that strength available to help a build depending on the current standard rotation. You're angry. For whatever reason you were hunting for a thread and found mine. You went off. Realistically you had some good reasoning behind your feelings with the list, but you didn't provide any other examples or your thoughts on any cards other than Malygos. You may play more wild than standard. Well, I posted this with a standard tag. If you want to discuss with us then discuss.
This was suggested in previous forums where Preparation could be made into "The next spell that costs 3 or less costs 0" to open up bigger spell cost cards design wise. As for Divine Favor, could be a draw 2 cards, if your hand is empty draw 5.
Let's just remove all the playable cards and remove the restriction on Magma Rager so you can have 30 in your deck...
Seriously if they keep HoFing cards the basic set will become pointless.
Then again I much rather they copied the rotating core sets from MtG.
Spicing things up with having to make new sets. Not having to nerf or HOF basic set cards since they will rotate again
I am a great supporter for the rotating core set like MtG...
Or maybe just add cards to the classic set each year to make it bigger and bigger as time goes on... A great addition to the classic set would be whizbang the wonderful for example.. but cards like burgle and crystaline oracle that define a class should be added to the classic set...
Completely agree and as its digital they could just raise the level cap. If the card pool was bigger we get more viable decks blizzard sell more packs, long standing players get a virtual reward of having allready collected these cards. Imagine adding GVG to the basic set, or Naxramas. Cards could then be removed rather than this "we design bad card " "we remove from standard" we get now
The neutral draw packages have ultimately led to too much consistency in OTK and combo decks. When combined with 6 full expacs of draw cards, roughly half of your deck can draw or tutor. In a game where your deck consists only of 30 cards, this is not good for the long term outlook of things. It'll probably lead to some form of OTK stone at the end of every year.
The real problem here is that the classic set has so many good cards that continue to dominate the game to this day. If the game developers really wanted a reboot to install some fresh ideas into deck building, most of the classic set has to go. Instead, we cherry pick a card here or there that the community feels has had its day. That is just a band-aid solution.
I am a great supporter for the rotating core set like MtG...
Or maybe just add cards to the classic set each year to make it bigger and bigger as time goes on... A great addition to the classic set would be whizbang the wonderful for example.. but cards like burgle and crystaline oracle that define a class should be added to the classic set...
To live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in the suffer!
Please HoF more cards! That means I am going to craft more golden cards!!! Still painful about previous time when I didnt craft Ragnaros, and no golden version of Sylvana (and also missed free legendary murloc) loser...
The goal of all life is death.
Well I also don't find any card so much oppresive as to be HOFed. But I am not playing wild so some cards like DKs, hunter's spellstone etc, that I consider to be fairly OP, will not be a problem for me, but may be a problem for Wild players. So I personally think that since none of the current core-basic cards are too much oppresive, the wild community should speak its thoughts as to which cards are affecting it right now and will continue to affect the game after April. Again, this is only my personal opinion.
The only thing I can think about after reading the intro post is: what model do you smoke, Nargacuga15?
EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63 / DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664
hall of faming is only done to classic and basic cards and then are only available for wild... so wild players can say what cards should be HoF'd, but that wont change the experience for them... the reason HoF exists is to move cards from basic/classic to wild-only...
To live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in the suffer!
In the hands of someone who knows how to pilot it, it is a Tier One deck. Even after three nerfs.
Stop speaking about things you don't know.
There honestly aren't any evergreens that are likely to be rotated - they've recently targeted Mana Wyrm and the Druid cards with nerfs, so unless those cards receive the Molten Giant treatment, which is unlikely, there isn't much else left. Perennial considerations, like Gadgetzan and Prep, simply don't see much play - Baku will squeeze them out of the format for another sixteen months. I notice some folks suggesting Malygos - but the card isn't close to being oppressive. Malygos decks have popped up from time to time in the past (which is presumably how Team 5 wants most evergreen cards to "behave"), but were mostly meme-tier until this past year, yet none of the current builds are remotely problematic.
Consistently rank 5 or better each month, but nice try.
I can see a nerf hitting it this year.
As I play Wild, I do not care about the rotation or HOF other than I hope they do as they did with Molten Giant. Move Wild Growth and Nourish to HOF and unnerf them. I don't love Jade Druid, but I miss a viable combo druid deck. They could also do it for other nerfed classic cards. (and unnerf Yogg, so we can have some fun - the card will never enter competitive anyway.)
That list is Garbo. Mally or Leroy I would say
So plenty of people so far seem to be looking towards:
Malygos
Preparation
Leeroy Jenkins (maybe)
Honestly that's why I made this thread. You add a ton of cards and collectively work down to 2-4 that potentially need to be considered. I'll now re-evaluate and add 1-2 other flexes for further discussion.
Malygos: So I agree with many that it could be problematic. However, I'm more aligned with the folks who say the classic identity of spell power behind a powerful card needs to be preserved. I'd choose this to stay over Thalnos for example.
Preparation: This is the most 50/50 in the discussion board. I think if it was changed to HoF then ABSOLUTELY Rogue will need to be looked at and reconsidered in both spell quality and cost. However, I propose this nerf: Preparation- 1 mana, your next spell casted this turn costs 3 less. A simple mana nerf may be enough to keep its power, and not disrupt standard if they wish to keep it. (Following this, Northshire Cleric and other class identity staples that are auto-includes should also be considered for fairness.)
Leeroy: It seems solely for auto-include identity leeroy is being discussed. The same defense for Malygos applies that Archetype Identity from Classic should hopefully be preserved. For other purposes, maybe Leeroy will open up standard charge mechanics by being moved.
In addition I propose an update to Divine Favor: 4 mana: if your opponent has a larger hand than you, draw 3 cards, otherwise draw 2 cards. It's a rough mechanic but I feel a vanilla draw 2 for 1 more mana plus upside if the condition is met is fair. unfortunately the deal 3 draw 1: 4 mana card is then in the way from a design perspective. Thus I want to say that it's a decent addition to HoF.
So in the end it looks like: 1 rare, 1 epic, and potentially 1 legendary. I feel this is a fair Hall of Fame rotation.
Literally everything on this list is stupid. None of those cards are problematic. Most are strong cards in aggro, but they don't break the game at all. Aggro is healthy and necessary to balance the game. They aren't even that strong these days anyway. Freaking druid has been the best class and decks that don't run minions have been at the top of ladder for over a year. The best deck in the game: wild big priest is ridiculously greedy, and uninteractive and doesn't run a single minion under 8 mana..... (Barnes doesn't count). They hero power pass the first 4 turns of the game and win anyway most of the time.
The most likely candidate for HoF is Malygos and the reason you gave for it not being there is ridiculous! Breaking the game for lore purposes is soooooo unbelievably dumb. Oh yeah and by the way, if you actually paid attention to warcraft lore, dragons aren't even that strong! Technically speaking, the strongest 2 cards are N'Zoth, and Ysharaaj because They're the 2 strongest old gods which are 2nd in power only to the mighty Sargeras. Malygos is one of the big offenders in the current meta and makes games super repeatitive and uninteractive to play against. I HATE games where my opponent puts nothing on board. It makes a lot of minion-based strategies not viable (like heal your own minions priest). Minion trading is what makes the game fun, and aggro games allow that to take place and malygos doesn't.
Ok I'm 100% from a Standard approach, as I think are many. So yes if you're a wild player I understand if you disagree heavily. Once again my intention isn't for the entire list to go. I think too many people literally think I want to gut every card. I made a list of potentials and was seeing if the community would agree on 2-4 of them. Instead as is usual everyone fought yelled and name-called or just threw insults because they disagreed- go figure. But I have to say Wild is Wild for a reason. It is really difficult for a game to balance the amount of cards Hearthstone pushes out, especially in 3 sets a year of a schedule. Wild takes them all. I don't think one card that grants plus 5 spell power on a body for legendary cost with the stats it has is at all problematic. I think other combos make it strong and that's the point.
Yes please further show bad manners by taking a few words out of my post and running with it. I wanted to show the message that the baseline of the game released legendary dragons and THAT was a power basis for a variety of different styles (spell power, board clear, value, board fill etc). It would be rough to only remove one and not look at the others. It is the same defense for Leeroy and a few other cards: Classic existence and backing for archetypes that rotate in strength. The point is you always have that strength available to help a build depending on the current standard rotation. You're angry. For whatever reason you were hunting for a thread and found mine. You went off. Realistically you had some good reasoning behind your feelings with the list, but you didn't provide any other examples or your thoughts on any cards other than Malygos. You may play more wild than standard. Well, I posted this with a standard tag. If you want to discuss with us then discuss.
This was suggested in previous forums where Preparation could be made into "The next spell that costs 3 or less costs 0" to open up bigger spell cost cards design wise. As for Divine Favor, could be a draw 2 cards, if your hand is empty draw 5.
Completely agree and as its digital they could just raise the level cap. If the card pool was bigger we get more viable decks blizzard sell more packs, long standing players get a virtual reward of having allready collected these cards. Imagine adding GVG to the basic set, or Naxramas. Cards could then be removed rather than this "we design bad card " "we remove from standard" we get now
Northshire Cleric should have been HoF'd a long time ago. It sits in the same vein as both Tunnel Trogg and Mana Wyrm and becomes hideously snobally if not dealth with (when you use things like Circle of Healing etc.
It would also serve to lower the prevalence of non-interactive decks like Mecathun
After this weekend, I think these are the cards that really need to be moved into the Hall of Fame:
Loot Hoarder, Novice Engineer, Acolyte of Pain, Gadgetzan Auctioneer.
The neutral draw packages have ultimately led to too much consistency in OTK and combo decks. When combined with 6 full expacs of draw cards, roughly half of your deck can draw or tutor. In a game where your deck consists only of 30 cards, this is not good for the long term outlook of things. It'll probably lead to some form of OTK stone at the end of every year.
I can understand HoF.
But people suggesting nerfs for Basic/Classic cards sound like spoiled kids that get bored too easily.
The real problem here is that the classic set has so many good cards that continue to dominate the game to this day. If the game developers really wanted a reboot to install some fresh ideas into deck building, most of the classic set has to go. Instead, we cherry pick a card here or there that the community feels has had its day. That is just a band-aid solution.