The neutral draw packages have ultimately led to too much consistency in OTK and combo decks. When combined with 6 full set of expac draw cards, roughly half of your deck can draw or tutor. In a game where your deck consists only of 30 cards, this is not good for the long term outlook of things. It'll probably lead to some form of OTK stone at the end of every year.
They already removed Coldlight Oracle to cut down on neutral card draw so they may do so again but I have not seen Gadgetzan Auctioneer in a while and the only times I have seen Loot Hoarder and Novice Engineer is in Paladin decks, and that's because of Crystology and Call to Arms.
They already removed Coldlight Oracle to cut down on neutral card draw so they may do so again but I have not seen Gadgetzan Auctioneer in a while and the only times I have seen Loot Hoarder and Novice Engineer is in Paladin decks, and that's because of Crystology and Call to Arms.
Each of the cards I listed have seen continuous play since the beginnings of HS. (Novice Engineer was even nerfed). It isn't about what is played right now. It's about the bulk and kind of neutral draw and the fact that, being in basic and classic, it will always exist.
They already removed Coldlight Oracle to cut down on neutral card draw so they may do so again but I have not seen Gadgetzan Auctioneer in a while and the only times I have seen Loot Hoarder and Novice Engineer is in Paladin decks, and that's because of Crystology and Call to Arms.
Each of the cards I listed have seen continuous play since the beginnings of HS. (Novice Engineer was even nerfed). It isn't about what is played right now. It's about the bulk and kind of neutral draw and the fact that, being in basic and classic, it will always exist.
There are many cards that have seen continuous play from the beginning. I don't mind so long as they are not in many decks almost all of the time (as Ragnaros was). Regarding card draw specifically; everything atm has been pushed to an extreme, so there is an incredible amount of card draw, as well value generation, and armour gain, and board flooding, and so on. I think the Basic/Classic set should give options for filling the final few spots in a deck so I am happy that there is neutral card draw, although I would not object to losing those cards that can draw multiple cards (Acolyte of Pain and Gadgetzan Auctioneer.)
They already removed Coldlight Oracle to cut down on neutral card draw so they may do so again but I have not seen Gadgetzan Auctioneer in a while and the only times I have seen Loot Hoarder and Novice Engineer is in Paladin decks, and that's because of Crystology and Call to Arms.
Each of the cards I listed have seen continuous play since the beginnings of HS. (Novice Engineer was even nerfed). It isn't about what is played right now. It's about the bulk and kind of neutral draw and the fact that, being in basic and classic, it will always exist.
I play gadgetzan in my miracle cutlass deck, but I normally only play it in wild casual as it suffers against aggro. You don't see it in standard very often at all. (I seen them on wild ladder infrequently though)
I think only really miracle rogues run this. druid used to, but there's not as many druids now.
Cmn, to complain about the classic/basic cards is to potentially ask for decreasing variability in the game, that's all.
Imagine that Blizzard will remove all the evergreen cards - there would be either smaller card pool or more expansions /bigger expansions. Keeping in mind the ratio of filler/garbage level cards, there would be even less variability in the decks creation, less options to pick from. Eventually it leads to predefined decks - because there would be no alternative card to improve the deck. Idea similar to the deck recipes. Think again if this is what you want... Unfortunately, to make the game fun again, the easiest way is to increase rng factor to make consecutive games less similar.
The variability doesn't mean in my opinion RnG - what pisses me off quite badly is when there is an attempt to try to replace the freedom of choice with rng for the sake of "replayability" and "fun factor". This alone is the fact that I value wild mode, where is no such limitation, and from time to time you can face something really amazing... Unfortunately what hurts wild the most right now in my opinion is the current focus of Blizzard (and thus community) with the one and lonly tournament in the nearest future. This would not be bad if not the power rankings, netdecking etc. Before that the variability of decks was much more bigger.
Back to the topic - HoF leads at the end to removal of evergreen sets and thus creates lower variability and/or increases the cost of the game for each year.
Kill command. Each game that im able to stabilize vs huntards i get killed by stupid card with the ugliest art in the game. Today i even got double kill command hp for 12 dmg. Sorry that i didnt play around it. Idiots
Never ever. Blizzard send cards to the Hall of Fame, because they either create problems OR they are simply too strong to be replaced. Northshire is a card drawing tool and a 1 mana 1/3 as we already have many of them in the game. This and that Priest have already the weakest Basic/Classic set in the game i don't see a moving of her into the hall of fame ever. Especially it would even more reducre the usefulness of priests hero-power (that's actually already very useless on turn 2)
Kill command. Each game that im able to stabilize vs huntards i get killed by stupid card with the ugliest art in the game. Today i even got double kill command hp for 12 dmg. Sorry that i didnt play around it. Idiots
You were warned at the beginning of the game that you would be hunted down. You should have listened.
Kill command. Each game that im able to stabilize vs huntards i get killed by stupid card with the ugliest art in the game. Today i even got double kill command hp for 12 dmg. Sorry that i didnt play around it. Idiots
You were warned at the beginning of the game that you would be hunted down. You should have listened.
I guess you are right about that. On a serious note im seeing malygos leeroy or alex being hofed
The real question is, do you think the Classic cards discussed in this thread for nerf are the cause for broken t1 decks in any mode?
Some yes, some no. Scavenging Hyena, Doomguard, Savanna Highmane and Leeroy Jenkins are certainly cards that - while not all T1 this current meta - have led their respective T1 decks at times. Doomguard in particular has needed to be dealt with since Cubelock became a thing.
Not entirely in agreement with all the others, but I certainly think Classic would really benefit from an overall power decrease (sort of like what Blizzard has already done with the replacement "Newb" cards they've added)
The point being, though, is that there is nothing wrong with wanting to consider bringing core card power levels down, if they are proving to be oppressive to the overall meta and to become auto includes in most decks. Classic cards should rarely (if ever) be "auto-includes". That doesnt mean they should be bad cards and they can still be powerful - but decks should be built around cards from expansions with supplements from Classic etc, rather than the other way around - that's way you get such stale meta currently.
Few Zoolocks don't run Doomguard. And fewer Beast Hunters don't run Scavenging Hyena or Savanna Highmane. They are simply that super powerful that they are must-haves. Same with most aggro decks and Leeroy Jenkins.
I think HoF should not be permanent. I think Blizz said this? Would be good to see some of those cards back just to mix things up. Treat the HoF as a sin bin/ temporary ban for standard
I see the merit of putting all charge and card draw there (from the classic/basic set) for a year or two...
Personally i don't think HoFing Leeroy Jenkins is a good idea , yes they will not print more Charge cards so that means Leeroy would have to be the only neutral Legendary Charge staple in the Core set , i mean people can still run Reckless Rocketeer for Charge even if Leeroy got HoFed would it solve much? Well would solve something.
Fiery War Axe was balanced at 2 Mana, at 3 Mana it was not, i have not agreed with the Mana nerf on this card.Molten Giant also balanced, nerf got reverted and HoFed so there is that. Mana Wyrm did needed this nerf, problem is Starving Buzzard at 5 mana is not balanced at all as a standalone card, sadly is "balanced" because Unleash the Hounds is a card.
Scavenging Hyena is one of my choices for HoF too at some point in the future it does create some design issues with Rushing beasts.
Divine Favor i would personally just raise the Mana cost to 4 (maybe 5?) to be more punishing, if we consider HoFing this card without Mana changes then the whole design of this card is flawed, i think is not flawed itself,is supposed to be a punish for people that hold many cards in a manner of what Clockwork Giant does.
I do not agree with Malygos HoF , but i can see Prophet Velen as a bigger threat and a possible design issue but those 2 go hand in hand most of the time so the HoF is basically connected if the reasoning was Spell Damage.
In short, i have no real idea what they will aim for at this point.
Personally i don't think HoFing Leeroy Jenkins is a good idea , yes they will not print more Charge cards so that means Leeroy would have to be the only neutral Legendary Charge staple in the Core set , i mean people can still run Reckless Rocketeer for Charge even if Leeroy got HoFed would it solve much?
Rocketeer + shadowstep would require 2 cards, and if you have say 5 health left, 1 taunt on the board stops that from happening (assuming it has more than 2 attack, as most of the played ones do) ..
Kill command. Each game that im able to stabilize vs huntards i get killed by stupid card with the ugliest art in the game. Today i even got double kill command hp for 12 dmg. Sorry that i didnt play around it. Idiots
You were warned at the beginning of the game that you would be hunted down. You should have listened.
I guess you are right about that. On a serious note im seeing malygos leeroy or alex being hofed
On a serious note, the six pages of random guesses here is nauseating. Especially since one of them may even prove to be right, and then the bozo is gonna go off sprouting "I called it ... I called it", right before "proving red is green" and getting killed crossing an intersection.
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So you thought Fiery War Axe, Mana Wyrm, Starving Buzzard, Molten Giant, Innervate, Nourish, etc were all perfectly balanced in their original states?
They already removed Coldlight Oracle to cut down on neutral card draw so they may do so again but I have not seen Gadgetzan Auctioneer in a while and the only times I have seen Loot Hoarder and Novice Engineer is in Paladin decks, and that's because of Crystology and Call to Arms.
Each of the cards I listed have seen continuous play since the beginnings of HS. (Novice Engineer was even nerfed). It isn't about what is played right now. It's about the bulk and kind of neutral draw and the fact that, being in basic and classic, it will always exist.
There are many cards that have seen continuous play from the beginning. I don't mind so long as they are not in many decks almost all of the time (as Ragnaros was). Regarding card draw specifically; everything atm has been pushed to an extreme, so there is an incredible amount of card draw, as well value generation, and armour gain, and board flooding, and so on. I think the Basic/Classic set should give options for filling the final few spots in a deck so I am happy that there is neutral card draw, although I would not object to losing those cards that can draw multiple cards (Acolyte of Pain and Gadgetzan Auctioneer.)
I play gadgetzan in my miracle cutlass deck, but I normally only play it in wild casual as it suffers against aggro. You don't see it in standard very often at all. (I seen them on wild ladder infrequently though)
I think only really miracle rogues run this. druid used to, but there's not as many druids now.
what else uses gadgetzan?
The real question is, do you think the Classic cards discussed in this thread for nerf are the cause for broken t1 decks in any mode?
Cmn, to complain about the classic/basic cards is to potentially ask for decreasing variability in the game, that's all.
Imagine that Blizzard will remove all the evergreen cards - there would be either smaller card pool or more expansions /bigger expansions. Keeping in mind the ratio of filler/garbage level cards, there would be even less variability in the decks creation, less options to pick from. Eventually it leads to predefined decks - because there would be no alternative card to improve the deck. Idea similar to the deck recipes. Think again if this is what you want... Unfortunately, to make the game fun again, the easiest way is to increase rng factor to make consecutive games less similar.
The variability doesn't mean in my opinion RnG - what pisses me off quite badly is when there is an attempt to try to replace the freedom of choice with rng for the sake of "replayability" and "fun factor". This alone is the fact that I value wild mode, where is no such limitation, and from time to time you can face something really amazing... Unfortunately what hurts wild the most right now in my opinion is the current focus of Blizzard (and thus community) with the one and lonly tournament in the nearest future. This would not be bad if not the power rankings, netdecking etc. Before that the variability of decks was much more bigger.
Back to the topic - HoF leads at the end to removal of evergreen sets and thus creates lower variability and/or increases the cost of the game for each year.
Kill command. Each game that im able to stabilize vs huntards i get killed by stupid card with the ugliest art in the game. Today i even got double kill command hp for 12 dmg. Sorry that i didnt play around it. Idiots
Never ever. Blizzard send cards to the Hall of Fame, because they either create problems OR they are simply too strong to be replaced. Northshire is a card drawing tool and a 1 mana 1/3 as we already have many of them in the game. This and that Priest have already the weakest Basic/Classic set in the game i don't see a moving of her into the hall of fame ever. Especially it would even more reducre the usefulness of priests hero-power (that's actually already very useless on turn 2)
So is it strong: yes, but HoF-Strong: NO!
You were warned at the beginning of the game that you would be hunted down. You should have listened.
I guess you are right about that. On a serious note im seeing malygos leeroy or alex being hofed
Some yes, some no.
Scavenging Hyena, Doomguard, Savanna Highmane and Leeroy Jenkins are certainly cards that - while not all T1 this current meta - have led their respective T1 decks at times.
Doomguard in particular has needed to be dealt with since Cubelock became a thing.
Not entirely in agreement with all the others, but I certainly think Classic would really benefit from an overall power decrease (sort of like what Blizzard has already done with the replacement "Newb" cards they've added)
The point being, though, is that there is nothing wrong with wanting to consider bringing core card power levels down, if they are proving to be oppressive to the overall meta and to become auto includes in most decks.
Classic cards should rarely (if ever) be "auto-includes". That doesnt mean they should be bad cards and they can still be powerful - but decks should be built around cards from expansions with supplements from Classic etc, rather than the other way around - that's way you get such stale meta currently.
Few Zoolocks don't run Doomguard. And fewer Beast Hunters don't run Scavenging Hyena or Savanna Highmane. They are simply that super powerful that they are must-haves.
Same with most aggro decks and Leeroy Jenkins.
I think HoF should not be permanent. I think Blizz said this? Would be good to see some of those cards back just to mix things up. Treat the HoF as a sin bin/ temporary ban for standard
I see the merit of putting all charge and card draw there (from the classic/basic set) for a year or two...
R.I.P. Knife JugglerLeeroy Jenkins
-DadamE
Personally i don't think HoFing Leeroy Jenkins is a good idea , yes they will not print more Charge cards so that means Leeroy would have to be the only neutral Legendary Charge staple in the Core set , i mean people can still run Reckless Rocketeer for Charge even if Leeroy got HoFed would it solve much? Well would solve something.
Fiery War Axe was balanced at 2 Mana, at 3 Mana it was not, i have not agreed with the Mana nerf on this card.Molten Giant also balanced, nerf got reverted and HoFed so there is that. Mana Wyrm did needed this nerf, problem is Starving Buzzard at 5 mana is not balanced at all as a standalone card, sadly is "balanced" because Unleash the Hounds is a card.
Scavenging Hyena is one of my choices for HoF too at some point in the future it does create some design issues with Rushing beasts.
Divine Favor i would personally just raise the Mana cost to 4 (maybe 5?) to be more punishing, if we consider HoFing this card without Mana changes then the whole design of this card is flawed, i think is not flawed itself,is supposed to be a punish for people that hold many cards in a manner of what Clockwork Giant does.
I do not agree with Malygos HoF , but i can see Prophet Velen as a bigger threat and a possible design issue but those 2 go hand in hand most of the time so the HoF is basically connected if the reasoning was Spell Damage.
In short, i have no real idea what they will aim for at this point.
Malygos. Maybe some others like Prep, Doomguard, even the lowly Freezing Trap, but I'd really like to see Malygos get the heck outta here.
Building Quirky Decks Every Week, Loving Life at Rank 15!
Reckless Rocketeer can't be double dropped with Valeera the Hollow passive
-DadamE
But DK Valeera also rotates. And rocketter can be double dropped too with a Shadowstep on turn 10 if that was the concern.
Rocketeer + shadowstep would require 2 cards, and if you have say 5 health left, 1 taunt on the board stops that from happening (assuming it has more than 2 attack, as most of the played ones do) ..
-DadamE
On a serious note, the six pages of random guesses here is nauseating. Especially since one of them may even prove to be right, and then the bozo is gonna go off sprouting "I called it ... I called it", right before "proving red is green" and getting killed crossing an intersection.