you haven't yet responded to it, except to bring up some completely irrelevant posts I've made.
Because thanks to your never-ending spams (I don't block people unless they go extreme about something e.g. racist jokes), I got to know that you are no different and just making those net decks while climbing the ladder, you complained about Even Lock and how it can possibly be a good deck, while it was simply one of the best and was brought into every single tournament.
My posts in the salt thread have absolutely no relevance to this discussion. Please stay on topic. Are you going to respond to it or not?
I'd like to also point out that Rastakhan is the last expansion before rotation, so naturally you'd expect it to have less impact. The fact that we're seeing as many cards as we are have an impact is pretty dang impressive, to say the least. No, some decks got absolutely nothing, but where was Odd Mage before Rastakhan? Where was Spell Hunter? Where was OTK Paladin? Where was Combo Priest (Mass Hysteria pushed it back into reality, the nerfs pushed it back into being competitive).
I can't take anyone, that believe MSoG was a good expansion, serious. It was the most boing meta in HS history - it all came down to a rock, paper, scissor meta where it was Jade Druid, Pirate Warrior or Renolock.
you haven't yet responded to it, except to bring up some completely irrelevant posts I've made.
Because thanks to your never-ending spams (I don't block people unless they go extreme about something e.g. racist jokes), I got to know that you are no different and just making those net decks while climbing the ladder, you complained about Even Lock and how it can possibly be a good deck, while it was simply one of the best and was brought into every single tournament.
My posts in the salt thread have absolutely no relevance to this discussion. Please stay on topic. Are you going to respond to it or not?
I'd like to also point out that Rastakhan is the last expansion before rotation, so naturally you'd expect it to have less impact. The fact that we're seeing as many cards as we are have an impact is pretty dang impressive, to say the least. No, some decks got absolutely nothing, but where was Odd Mage before Rastakhan? Where was Spell Hunter? Where was OTK Paladin? Where was Combo Priest (Mass Hysteria pushed it back into reality, the nerfs pushed it back into being competitive).
Maybe it's for the better that it's less impactful. Both msog and k&c were the last of their cycle and to make them relevant they printed them with such absurd power levels that they outright broke the game for a year.
you haven't yet responded to it, except to bring up some completely irrelevant posts I've made.
Because thanks to your never-ending spams (I don't block people unless they go extreme about something e.g. racist jokes), I got to know that you are no different and just making those net decks while climbing the ladder, you complained about Even Lock and how it can possibly be a good deck, while it was simply one of the best and was brought into every single tournament.
My posts in the salt thread have absolutely no relevance to this discussion. Please stay on topic. Are you going to respond to it or not?
I'd like to also point out that Rastakhan is the last expansion before rotation, so naturally you'd expect it to have less impact. The fact that we're seeing as many cards as we are have an impact is pretty dang impressive, to say the least. No, some decks got absolutely nothing, but where was Odd Mage before Rastakhan? Where was Spell Hunter? Where was OTK Paladin? Where was Combo Priest (Mass Hysteria pushed it back into reality, the nerfs pushed it back into being competitive).
It is a paragraph full of wrong statements and I can't even decide from which one to begin with.
1) I already responded to your irrelevant claims; this expansion is consist of 135 new cards and you have written maybe not even 10 cards there - some of them are not even good to have in decks in the current meta.
2) Spell hunter was a thing before as well. You most of the time don't even use zul'jin to prevent discarding DK rexxar from the deck and by the time you are most likely winning as odd paladin and Kingsbane rogue gone, which were the two hardest matchups.
3) OTK paladin was also a thing, it just got better.
4) Odd mage is still not replacable to DK control mage, people play that to counter hunters and rush them down by just gonig face without even trading necessarily.
5) APM priest was also a thing and again it just got better.
Just because people improved their decks by excluding two cards and adding new two ones doesn't make it a novel deck.
It is a paragraph full of wrong statements and I can't even decide from which one to begin with.
1) I already responded to your irrelevant claims; this expansion is consist of 135 new cards and you have written maybe not even 10 cards there - some of them are not even good to have in decks in the current meta.
2) Spell hunter was a thing before as well. You most of the time don't even use zul'jin to prevent discarding DK rexxar from the deck and by the time you are most likely winning as odd paladin and Kingsbane rogue gone, which were the two hardest matchups.
3) OTK paladin was also a thing, it just got better.
4) Odd mage is still not replacable to DK control mage, people play that to counter hunters and rush them down by just gonig face without even trading necessarily.
5) APM priest was also a thing and again it just got better.
Just because people improved their decks by excluding two cards and adding new two ones doesn't make it a novel deck.
First I want to admit I was incorrect; MSOG was the last hurrah before rotation, I remember now, because I was playing a lot of Dragon Priest and Razakus Priest, and it was the first time I hit legend.
1) Which ones were irrelevant? As I pointed out, basically every expansion in every card game - not just Hearthstone - will only see a small handful of impactful cards. This is true for MSOG, for Boomsday, for RR. If you'd like to see a full write up on every card, I actually made a pre-release card review for the entire set. Want a link? Or is that irrelevant? I don't know what you consider relevant anymore to be honest.
2) Spell Hunter existed, but it was not nearly as strong as it is now. Deathrattle Hunter was simply the better deck before Zul'Jin was released.
3) OTK Paladin with Shiro the Tiger. The 4 Horsemen OTK is much weaker.
4) Odd Mage uses the Deathknight, so I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Big Spell Mage? That list existed already; I would give Odd Mage some time to consider it fully optimized, but all that is to say, Odd Mage was basically non existent before Janalai and Daring Fire-eater.
5) APM Priest existed but was actually terrible.
RR paved the way for brand new decks to exist and made existing decks better. What more do you want from an expansion? It may not have completely turned the meta upside down, but no expansion will EVER do that, with a few exceptions (mainly, "if your deck contains" style build-around cards).
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Yes arena is boring, and saying that by getting 12 wins with paladin just today, it is boring because what I did was basically to put the highest cost minion and buff them every single turn, trade trade trade trade, go face, trade, go face go face while there is no minion to trade, absolutely no punishment, getting 12 wins consistently doesn't make arena good, the comebacks, each different strategy with the same deck every run makes it 'fun' to play. I am a main Arena player and arena got better when the epic & legendary pick rates increased and got worst when spell draft dramatically decreased.
Baby, u are not fooling any1 with ur 12 wins consistancy. It has been debunked years ago, averege 7 is <1% of ppl.
And since u are such a MAIN ARENA player then da faq are u talking about RR rankeds?
Lastly, someone will surely claim that the RR will be valuable with the introduction of new cards & mechanics, but what is the point of playing the new expansion then? We can just wait 6 months and they can release 2 expansions at once. I am sure Team 5 is at least capable of doing that. Unless we give the right negative feedback, the game will never develop as we want, because the HS players are the ones who declare whether the meta is balanced or extremely boring, not Blizzard.
Power creep happens. MSoG, KotFT, & K&C introduced so much power creep the option was to either constantly nerf almost every consistent card from those three sets whenever a new set was released, just release more broken stuff in new sets to overshadow Jades, Razakus, Tempo Rogue, DKs, & K&C "Druidstone", or release lower power level stuff in sets like RR and wait for rotation (which really isn't that far away anymore).
It's an impossible task to release new cards that are both a) always the same power level as previous sets without powercreeping/under delivering & b) making every class equally playable without powering up the consistency of already consistent classes. Keep in mind too that expansions aren't planned & designed when our current metas are in full force, but they are planned way beforehand. The design team isn't looking at the current strong decks and then making decisions to design specific cards that will be used in direct response to what our meta calls for in tweaking decks in the 3-4 months.
Also, be careful about that bolded part. There are many of us that play this game and throwing out bold statements that universally declare 'what HS players want' only serve the likes of some of the players 100% of the time. What you like/dislike is often going to differ at some point from what Sally or Billy like/dislike so it isn't as simple to say that Blizzard should automatically step in when there is something that your niche of players doesn't like about the game or meta.
Lastly, someone will surely claim that the RR will be valuable with the introduction of new cards & mechanics, but what is the point of playing the new expansion then? We can just wait 6 months and they can release 2 expansions at once. I am sure Team 5 is at least capable of doing that. Unless we give the right negative feedback, the game will never develop as we want, because the HS players are the ones who declare whether the meta is balanced or extremely boring, not Blizzard.
Power creep happens. MSoG, KotFT, & K&C introduced so much power creep the option was to either constantly nerf almost every consistent card from those three sets whenever a new set was released, just release more broken stuff in new sets to overshadow Jades, Razakus, Tempo Rogue, DKs, & K&C "Druidstone", or release lower power level stuff in sets like RR and wait for rotation (which really isn't that far away anymore).
I don't believe the HS players would be devastated if they were informed that the rotation is taking place via RR not next expansion, again you people keep saying the same things in different sentences. I know why RR appear weak, and you already quoted what I've written up there. What the hell is the point of releasing an expansion that is known to be overshadowed by the strength level of old cards; either do the rotation now or release double expansion.
And what I've written in bold up there is nothing but 100% correct. I do say the right negative feedback, which doesn't necessarily refer to my claims.
Yes arena is boring, and saying that by getting 12 wins with paladin just today, it is boring because what I did was basically to put the highest cost minion and buff them every single turn, trade trade trade trade, go face, trade, go face go face while there is no minion to trade, absolutely no punishment, getting 12 wins consistently doesn't make arena good, the comebacks, each different strategy with the same deck every run makes it 'fun' to play. I am a main Arena player and arena got better when the epic & legendary pick rates increased and got worst when spell draft dramatically decreased.
Baby, u are not fooling any1 with ur 12 wins consistancy. It has been debunked years ago, averege 7 is <1% of ppl.
And since u are such a MAIN ARENA player then da faq are u talking about RR rankeds?
Baby, it is called figure of speech. Besides, give me a few dragonmaw and minions on curve I show you how easy it is to get to 8 wins for nowadays, along with Warpath and Dragon Roar , it is even more consistent than you imagine.
Lastly, someone will surely claim that the RR will be valuable with the introduction of new cards & mechanics, but what is the point of playing the new expansion then? We can just wait 6 months and they can release 2 expansions at once. I am sure Team 5 is at least capable of doing that. Unless we give the right negative feedback, the game will never develop as we want, because the HS players are the ones who declare whether the meta is balanced or extremely boring, not Blizzard.
Power creep happens. MSoG, KotFT, & K&C introduced so much power creep the option was to either constantly nerf almost every consistent card from those three sets whenever a new set was released, just release more broken stuff in new sets to overshadow Jades, Razakus, Tempo Rogue, DKs, & K&C "Druidstone", or release lower power level stuff in sets like RR and wait for rotation (which really isn't that far away anymore).
I don't believe the HS players would be devastated if they were informed that the rotation is taking place via RR not next expansion, again you people keep saying the same things in different sentences. I know why RR appear weak, and you already quoted what ı've written up there. What the hell is the point of releasing an expansion that is known to be overshadowed by the strength level of old cards; either do the rotation now or release double expansion.
And what I've written in bold up there is nothing but 100% . correct. I do say the right negative feedback, which doesn't necessarily refer to my claims.
T5 still needs to produce new content to continue making money. They aren't a charity after all. If they don't nerf their old content into the ground they aren't just going to always fall into the trap of making more broken stuff or simply throwing their hands into the air and refuse to release new things that aren't super shiny simply because strong things already exist. Sometimes in card games sets of lower power level are still released without delay even when strong cards still exist in play. I'm not sure what you want us to tell you exactly.
As for rotating early I never said players would or wouldn't be devastated, but they have a system for rotating and it isn't going to be changed just for one set of cards because some players are currently bored with the game. Rotation will happen on the date it was set for.
I'm sorry but if you start off with "what makes an expansion good?" and then use MSoG as your first example of a -good- expansion, then I'm not even gonna read the rest.
MSoG was arguably the most broken shitshow of an expansion ever. If you think that makes it a good expansion... Boy am I glad you're not working for Blizzard then.
I am in charge now. jade idol, raza, reno decks 3 classes getting a fail mechanic that was only a meme in the ebd...
T5 still needs to produce new content to continue making money. They aren't a charity after all.
I think we shouldn't be even allowed two write the words 'T5' and 'Charity' in the same paragraph. Believe me they are not. Do you know the annual income they make? I just quote here what I've written above as a response to these sort of claims:
''The current motivation driven by those who spend tons of real money on the game - which I do not criticise since it is their own choice - is not to have a better game experience, but rather to punish others by aiming to have a deck that makes others whine, which is slowly establishing a definition of satisfaction in HS.''
There is a reason that the high tier decks usually consist of many legendaries that are virtually a must to have to make the deck work, and of course the very funny drop rate of these cards; I only had pre-purchased once, and stopped doing that after I've shockingly found out that I had only 2 worthless legendaries out of 50 packs.
T5 still needs to produce new content to continue making money. They aren't a charity after all.
I think we shouldn't be even allowed two write the words 'T5' and 'Charity' in the same paragraph. Believe me they are not. Do you know the annual income they make? I just quote here what I've written above as a response to these sort of claims:
''The current motivation driven by those who spend tons of real money on the game - which I do not criticise since it is their own choice - is not to have a better game experience, but rather to punish others by aiming to have a deck that makes others whine, which is slowly establishing a definition of satisfaction in HS.''
There is a reason that the high tier decks usually consist of many legendaries that are virtually a must to have to make the deck work, and of course the very funny drop rate of these cards; I only had pre-purchased once, and stopped doing that after I've shockingly found out that I had only 2 worthless legendaries out of 50 packs.
I'm not sure if you are just not understanding my posts or are trying to twist my words intentionally, but I'll try this again.
T5 is a part of a company that that still answers to share/stock holders. They must still continue printing new content, even if that content doesn't end up eclipsing the old powerful synergies (try as they might).
RR didn't take off very well (yet) the power creep in the three expansions I mentioned above was so substantially high that it would be unrealistic to nerf such a high number of very powerful cards in three sets. Many cards ranging from DKs to Kazakus, to jades to plague/ui/paths/spellstone revolutionized at least half of the classes so much by completely overhauling what the classes could do & what they used to be weak against. Warlock self-damage effects used to have a more obvious weakness & low amounts of healing and had limited removal, mages used to not be able to heal for the most part, druids used to have weaknesses to ramping/responding to wide boards/no consistent one mana removal (naturalize actually had a downside), etc, etc. RR did not and could not easily revolutionize the classes yet again & do so in one expansion that was just as impactful as MSoG, KotFT, & K&C was in three powerhouse sets. Anybody who thought a single expansion was going to change the game that drastically pre-rotation were being naive & woefully optimistic.
I should also mention that one of the most powerful decks in standard AND wild is Even Shaman which consists mostly of low quality cards (barring the one exception of Genn of course). In fact, the deck's most powerful cards are rare & common quality. Same thing applies to Odd Rogue (though it has a comparatively higher number of epics than Even Shaman).
Hall of Flame exists for a reason, if RR cards are extremely poor due to the strength level of old cards, we don't have to suffer for 3 more months to see them quit the game, the algorithm for that is both cheap and easy to make it happen.
Dummy they would never rotate Standard cards out early you just gotta slog through it. And don't act like the new expansions don't have cards in decks. Odd Mage is finally a legitimate archetype and Spell Hunter and Midrange Hunter have been bumped up a few years. This expansion has a lot of its cards being played competitevly and has pushed old archetypes and created a few new ones.
Meh. I'm enjoying it enough. I actually stopped reading after OP said that MSoG was a good expansion. It wasn't. Months and Months of Pirate Warriorstone, Jade Druid, Pirate Rogue, Jade Shaman, Aggro Shaman.... All. Interspersed with "I'm In Chaaaarge Now!"
Fuck off and good riddance Patches, you nasty little harbinger of death..
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4/3/19 RIP Keith Flint. 😔
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Just because you see hunter a lot shit there tons of new cards being played. I suggest u wait longer so we don’t have to read ur wall of text.
My posts in the salt thread have absolutely no relevance to this discussion. Please stay on topic. Are you going to respond to it or not?
I'd like to also point out that Rastakhan is the last expansion before rotation, so naturally you'd expect it to have less impact. The fact that we're seeing as many cards as we are have an impact is pretty dang impressive, to say the least. No, some decks got absolutely nothing, but where was Odd Mage before Rastakhan? Where was Spell Hunter? Where was OTK Paladin? Where was Combo Priest (Mass Hysteria pushed it back into reality, the nerfs pushed it back into being competitive).
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Why every expansion someone posts a topic like this?
Maybe... nah nah nah nah
I can't take anyone, that believe MSoG was a good expansion, serious. It was the most boing meta in HS history - it all came down to a rock, paper, scissor meta where it was Jade Druid, Pirate Warrior or Renolock.
Maybe it's for the better that it's less impactful. Both msog and k&c were the last of their cycle and to make them relevant they printed them with such absurd power levels that they outright broke the game for a year.
It is a paragraph full of wrong statements and I can't even decide from which one to begin with.
1) I already responded to your irrelevant claims; this expansion is consist of 135 new cards and you have written maybe not even 10 cards there - some of them are not even good to have in decks in the current meta.
2) Spell hunter was a thing before as well. You most of the time don't even use zul'jin to prevent discarding DK rexxar from the deck and by the time you are most likely winning as odd paladin and Kingsbane rogue gone, which were the two hardest matchups.
3) OTK paladin was also a thing, it just got better.
4) Odd mage is still not replacable to DK control mage, people play that to counter hunters and rush them down by just gonig face without even trading necessarily.
5) APM priest was also a thing and again it just got better.
Just because people improved their decks by excluding two cards and adding new two ones doesn't make it a novel deck.
First I want to admit I was incorrect; MSOG was the last hurrah before rotation, I remember now, because I was playing a lot of Dragon Priest and Razakus Priest, and it was the first time I hit legend.
1) Which ones were irrelevant? As I pointed out, basically every expansion in every card game - not just Hearthstone - will only see a small handful of impactful cards. This is true for MSOG, for Boomsday, for RR. If you'd like to see a full write up on every card, I actually made a pre-release card review for the entire set. Want a link? Or is that irrelevant? I don't know what you consider relevant anymore to be honest.
2) Spell Hunter existed, but it was not nearly as strong as it is now. Deathrattle Hunter was simply the better deck before Zul'Jin was released.
3) OTK Paladin with Shiro the Tiger. The 4 Horsemen OTK is much weaker.
4) Odd Mage uses the Deathknight, so I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Big Spell Mage? That list existed already; I would give Odd Mage some time to consider it fully optimized, but all that is to say, Odd Mage was basically non existent before Janalai and Daring Fire-eater.
5) APM Priest existed but was actually terrible.
RR paved the way for brand new decks to exist and made existing decks better. What more do you want from an expansion? It may not have completely turned the meta upside down, but no expansion will EVER do that, with a few exceptions (mainly, "if your deck contains" style build-around cards).
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
Join me at Out of Cards!
Baby, u are not fooling any1 with ur 12 wins consistancy. It has been debunked years ago, averege 7 is <1% of ppl.
And since u are such a MAIN ARENA player then da faq are u talking about RR rankeds?
RR is one of the best expansions released so far, get real people.
Power creep happens. MSoG, KotFT, & K&C introduced so much power creep the option was to either constantly nerf almost every consistent card from those three sets whenever a new set was released, just release more broken stuff in new sets to overshadow Jades, Razakus, Tempo Rogue, DKs, & K&C "Druidstone", or release lower power level stuff in sets like RR and wait for rotation (which really isn't that far away anymore).
It's an impossible task to release new cards that are both a) always the same power level as previous sets without powercreeping/under delivering & b) making every class equally playable without powering up the consistency of already consistent classes. Keep in mind too that expansions aren't planned & designed when our current metas are in full force, but they are planned way beforehand. The design team isn't looking at the current strong decks and then making decisions to design specific cards that will be used in direct response to what our meta calls for in tweaking decks in the 3-4 months.
Also, be careful about that bolded part. There are many of us that play this game and throwing out bold statements that universally declare 'what HS players want' only serve the likes of some of the players 100% of the time. What you like/dislike is often going to differ at some point from what Sally or Billy like/dislike so it isn't as simple to say that Blizzard should automatically step in when there is something that your niche of players doesn't like about the game or meta.
I don't believe the HS players would be devastated if they were informed that the rotation is taking place via RR not next expansion, again you people keep saying the same things in different sentences. I know why RR appear weak, and you already quoted what I've written up there. What the hell is the point of releasing an expansion that is known to be overshadowed by the strength level of old cards; either do the rotation now or release double expansion.
And what I've written in bold up there is nothing but 100% correct. I do say the right negative feedback, which doesn't necessarily refer to my claims.
Baby, it is called figure of speech. Besides, give me a few dragonmaw and minions on curve I show you how easy it is to get to 8 wins for nowadays, along with Warpath and Dragon Roar , it is even more consistent than you imagine.
T5 still needs to produce new content to continue making money. They aren't a charity after all. If they don't nerf their old content into the ground they aren't just going to always fall into the trap of making more broken stuff or simply throwing their hands into the air and refuse to release new things that aren't super shiny simply because strong things already exist. Sometimes in card games sets of lower power level are still released without delay even when strong cards still exist in play. I'm not sure what you want us to tell you exactly.
As for rotating early I never said players would or wouldn't be devastated, but they have a system for rotating and it isn't going to be changed just for one set of cards because some players are currently bored with the game. Rotation will happen on the date it was set for.
I am in charge now. jade idol, raza, reno decks 3 classes getting a fail mechanic that was only a meme in the ebd...
I agree msog was horrid for the game
I think we shouldn't be even allowed two write the words 'T5' and 'Charity' in the same paragraph. Believe me they are not. Do you know the annual income they make? I just quote here what I've written above as a response to these sort of claims:
''The current motivation driven by those who spend tons of real money on the game - which I do not criticise since it is their own choice - is not to have a better game experience, but rather to punish others by aiming to have a deck that makes others whine, which is slowly establishing a definition of satisfaction in HS.''
There is a reason that the high tier decks usually consist of many legendaries that are virtually a must to have to make the deck work, and of course the very funny drop rate of these cards; I only had pre-purchased once, and stopped doing that after I've shockingly found out that I had only 2 worthless legendaries out of 50 packs.
I'm not sure if you are just not understanding my posts or are trying to twist my words intentionally, but I'll try this again.
T5 is a part of a company that that still answers to share/stock holders. They must still continue printing new content, even if that content doesn't end up eclipsing the old powerful synergies (try as they might).
RR didn't take off very well (yet) the power creep in the three expansions I mentioned above was so substantially high that it would be unrealistic to nerf such a high number of very powerful cards in three sets. Many cards ranging from DKs to Kazakus, to jades to plague/ui/paths/spellstone revolutionized at least half of the classes so much by completely overhauling what the classes could do & what they used to be weak against. Warlock self-damage effects used to have a more obvious weakness & low amounts of healing and had limited removal, mages used to not be able to heal for the most part, druids used to have weaknesses to ramping/responding to wide boards/no consistent one mana removal (naturalize actually had a downside), etc, etc. RR did not and could not easily revolutionize the classes yet again & do so in one expansion that was just as impactful as MSoG, KotFT, & K&C was in three powerhouse sets. Anybody who thought a single expansion was going to change the game that drastically pre-rotation were being naive & woefully optimistic.
I should also mention that one of the most powerful decks in standard AND wild is Even Shaman which consists mostly of low quality cards (barring the one exception of Genn of course). In fact, the deck's most powerful cards are rare & common quality. Same thing applies to Odd Rogue (though it has a comparatively higher number of epics than Even Shaman).
Dummy they would never rotate Standard cards out early you just gotta slog through it. And don't act like the new expansions don't have cards in decks. Odd Mage is finally a legitimate archetype and Spell Hunter and Midrange Hunter have been bumped up a few years. This expansion has a lot of its cards being played competitevly and has pushed old archetypes and created a few new ones.
the expansion isn'y a failure.. we will aee it's real impact next year
Witchwood and Boomsday are much worse.. see it.
Meh. I'm enjoying it enough. I actually stopped reading after OP said that MSoG was a good expansion. It wasn't. Months and Months of Pirate Warriorstone, Jade Druid, Pirate Rogue, Jade Shaman, Aggro Shaman.... All. Interspersed with "I'm In Chaaaarge Now!"
Fuck off and good riddance Patches, you nasty little harbinger of death..
4/3/19 RIP Keith Flint. 😔