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I just find it funny they listin more to the majority over the minority, and ik that sounds wierd but the majority of players in card games like these are agro players compared to the minority that play the decks, and ik everyone is going to say "they nerfed and agro deck to so shut up" but that nerf just took a chip out its rediculas consistency compared to the kings bane and shuderwok nerfs witch took the meat cleaver to, like holly shit that's the first agro nerf they have done in a while compared to the constant nerfs they do to control and combo, I just don't understand why agro players just get to dictate whether I play my favorite deck because they don't know the match up, reasons so many players are leaving this game
Quote from agro master 9 million compared to the hundreds of kings bane rouges
Who told you to post your nonsense in this thread?
I have zero sympathy for rage-spitting kids like you.
Hahahaha it hurts I know....
Dead but dreaming
Nobody enjoyed playing against any of the decks affected by these nerfs. I guarantee you that no one thinks/thought "oh my opponent just healed for 10 health and cleared my big minion, this is actually insanely fun :D"
Nah. I am sitting on 10k dust, i will survive. I also don't really care of Kingsbane decks, since i always ladder with Tempo decks.
It is just a matter of dust-justice.
The only hurt guy here is you. ;)
I understand the frustration, but it's a potentially unending chain of refunds.
The Saronite Nerf was targetted at Shudderwock, but you might have also crafted Grumble for your infinite Shudder deck. Or Captain Greenskin for your Kingsbane rogue. Does nerfing a rare card now require two legendary refunds? Should the Aviana nerf also have discounted Kun?
At some point we have to say "buyer beware" and accept that losing some dust value a handful of times per year is an acceptable price to pay to keep the game more balanced and fun.
Yes, it's frustrating and can feel unfair, especially early in an expansion. It's probably still for the best.
In fact, in this case i would deem Grumble or Greenskin OUT of refund. Side-effects.
But Shudderwock and Kingsbane are certified direct targets.
But i also reiterate the best solution of all: NOT PRINTING insane build-around cards.
Such an easy solution. Go join Team5! Thanks buddy!
How about they actually neef the actual problem instead of some useless rare that would never see any play if it wasn't for said broken card ??!!!!
They obviously did this on pursue to net give people dust.
And BTW I think nerfs in general are a bad experience. You always feel like you lose something and not gain anything back.
there was a much simpler and elegant solution to said problems: tech cards:
For example:
- 5 mana 5 5 battle cry silence and destroy your enemy weapon.
- 3 mana 2 3 deal 1 damage to all other minions.
- the dude that makes both players go to 5 mana should be cheaper (4-5 mana would be OK) and it should not be a legendary so you can use it multiple times if you really wanted
I mean... You lose 5 cards but gain some breathing air in the game itself. Fair trade.
Why are we defending Kingsbane Rogue and Odd Pala ? The decks were over the top and something had to be done.
Leeching Poison was the problem.
Not fair? I think is pretty fair!
The players asked Blizzard for a solution because some decks were too strong. Blizzard nerfed some cards. They did a great job in my opinion.
Now you want Blizzard to refund you? For what? Do you want free new decks to play because Blizzard balanced the game? Get real...
And what's the problem with a chain of refunds? The company made several mistakes and hasn't lost money for them. Blizzard is not going to lose money by refunding cards, that just may lower their profit. If a company makes a mistake it has to compensate their customers, that's how it works.
Man I'm not going to disenchant kingsbane even if they would give full refund as I play wild and love cards that allow different game mechanics, but I see this as a company mistake that is charged to the customers despite the nerfs were mandatory.
I will crush you!
It is and is not at the same time, they nerfed the card to slaughter a specific deck and that deck littarly only plays 2 legendary but the card is only used for that 1 legendary, but on the shuderwok case that card is used In pretty much every deck so that also would make it hard, i say the kings bane would be fair but the shuderwok would not, it's all on perspective, leaching littarly made or broke that deck, if u did not get it so it's a matter of how u look at it
You are wrong.
To see why you must understand how design space works.
Very few cards are powerful enoigh in itself.Constructed decks are based on synergy between cards.
A card can be used to build around or be build around.
Poison was a card that helped build around. In itself is harmless and will probably never see any play without something like kingsbane.
Kingsbane on the other hand is very dangerous because as soon as a nice buff is put on it it becomes permanent which is potensially game winning .
So now they cam not print any other good buffs because kingsbane exist and limits the design space.
Poison on the other hand can be safely put on pretty much any other weapon in the game and possible future ones and would still be OK
Seems like you've misunderstood something. The problemelatic card wasn't Kingsbane but Leeching Poison. If Kingsbane was actually the problem, then there's no reason for this discussing a refund for it, cause then it still works quite fine.
Have you actually read the statement? It says nothing about "narrowing down the usage of Kingsbane", but states "... granting it a permanent Lifesteal effect with Leeching Poison resulted in an endgame with few weaknesses".
- the game is already super expensive and this is a fact, they moved to 3 releases per year and using doing yearly rotation which force you to buy more cards to keep playing.
- Each top archetype costs about 10K of dust which equals to 100$. this prevents players with limited collection to innovate and try new things since they are forced to play top tier decks to stay competitive (assuming No one plays to loose)
- Each Nerf force significant % of the players community to craft (Buy!) new decks.
- Nevertheless - they should compensate since they explicitly specified (in the Nerf notes) that certain archetypes were targeted, not the cheap cards which were actually refunded..
Stop focus on Kings-bane, All Nerfs targets full archetypes, and makes them noncompetitive, which force players to craft new decks, this costs money.
new Meta = players sped money.
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Card Design ChampionI can't understand something. Why do people always assume, that we have ulterior motives when we say those things? Is it that hard to believe, that there is a person, who wants to defend others and who proposed some constructive changes for the future of the game? I'm presenting here objective arguments, aren't I? If you don't agree with them or you think they don't correspond to the reality of things, then you are welcome to make counterarguments. However I am not going to reply to quotes like this one, because this is not a real argument. You make a claim based on someone's card collection and you try to refute them in this discussion. If you are going to continue like this, there is no point of me replying to you.
Inb4 I do own Shudderwock and I also consciously crafted Grumble, Worldshaker. But no, I don't want a refund, because I don't play this deck on the ladder (my only standard ladder deck is control warlock), as I only care about the wild meme version with Yogg-Saron, Hope's End. And even if a dust refund was presented to me, I would have refused it, because I would still want to play this meme deck.
So I don't really care about my collection and everything concerning me personally. However I pity others and I certainly don't agree that things should be left unchanged, because the flaws of this refund policy are punishing for players (especially those with a poor collection). As I said countless times - the things, which happened to Shudderwock and Kingsbane will occur with a future deck.
No, it's not subjective. Because you don't look at cards in a vacuum. There are connections between them, which influence their playability and the successfulness of the decks they are used in. Take as an example Possessed Lackey - on its own he was a weak-stated 5-drop, which pulled demons. In any other class he would have been weak, but in combination with powerful minions and the best HP in the game (Life Tap), he became a problematic card, that got a well deserved nerf. But after the nerfs this archtype was preserved (just weakened) - something, which we can't say about the two aforementioned play-styles. Because you can still buff up your Kingsblade and you can still get some value out of your Shudderwock, but you won't be able to play the decks, which were possible before (in standard).
If someone has the need to complain a lot and can't be satisfied with anything, then this is their problem. People here have a reason for their outcry. This is why I proposed there should be an open conversation between both sides regarding this topic. With this we can estimate to what extent there could be a dust refund and whether there could be a settlement by compromise. This issue will most certainly pop up again in the future. You think that this will only lead to "an endless spree of throwing dust at people", which wouldn't be the case. They won't get their investments back to full state, but sligthly more than a regular disenchantment. As I said, this could be further discussed regarding which legendaries/epics could fall into this category.
[edit] So as it seems, the Leeching Poison nerf didn't kill this archtype after all. Now, if a rogue player wants to preserve the healing, they should be careful how they make their next plays. Since this didn't delete the archtype, ignore my Kingsbane argument from my post.