Now perhaps i`m a bit overreacting because i am a Warrior-main. But i feel that warrior has lost a lot of flavor and please don't judge me after reading have of the post. I took my time to do this post and it is not a salty post - i just want to bring up my thoughts and perhaps a known streamer like kripp, kibler or even blizzard will see this post and reply with their thoughts which would really make me happy
here are a lot of critics and it's not because i'm angry but rather frustrated
Warrior was the best or one of the best classes in hearthstone for a long time - unfortunately i couldn’t have fun then because i didn't play hearthstone back then...
Now I’ve been playing warrior a lot (have over 1000 wins in rank so yeah a lot will say wow thats a lot - so the class is in good shape then...? Well there are a lot of arguments and there is a yes and a no to it
Odd warrior sees pretty good success in the meta right and you see some rushwarriors from time to time pop up but it`s not competing with other classes the same way
what my main problem is not that warrior is very weak right now(well lets be fair it is kind of but I don't have a problem if it's not in the dumpster over a year) but the overall power level as a base class and the whole flavor in the class let me to bring up this post and bring in my thoughts that will hopefully gain some good discussion
It was the class with the best weapons, the class with the most armorgain, the class with enrage, the class with charge.
The best Weapons
Fiery war axe - yes I’m bringing it up was the best weapon in hearthstone being now one of the worst - shouldn't warrior have the best weapons - i think they should because it is a weapon heavy class
did it need a nerf - perhaps but now the early game of warrior is horrible i mean really horrible
the problem with it was pirate warrior - alright it was a problem i didn’t play back then but I’ve seen some older vids from kripp so yeah that was bad but now pirate warrior is a tier 2 in wild and a lot will say I hate that deck and I understand that but can’t we all agree that big priest is way worse than pirate warrior - I mean really if you play any other class than rogue you almost have no chance ...
armorgain
yes, warrior uses their armor differently than others but really druid can use 2x ferocious howl 1 branching path on turn 10 (turn 6/7 \(OoO)/haha) losing one card and gaining 26-32 armor without downside and condition
Warrior needs consistently more cards without drawing them gaining a downside with bring it on to gain that much armor
Enrage
Warrior was the class that used enrage the most because of their wirlwindeffects and it was just kind of the keyword to emphasize the class btw enrage warrior never worked - that being said team 5 decided to cut out the keyword still making more of those cards
not that that is the problem, but all other aspects of warrior are gone and now taking that away to is pretty hard for warrior players
Charge
Warrior has korkron elite, charge as a spell and warsongcomander. None of the other classes have that many charge cards - but what happened? charge as a mechanic isn’t favored in Team 5 so it got nerfed.
Not the mechanic but a lot of the cards and everything that goes with it.
The Spell "charge" will never ever see play again it`s just soo bad
Warsongcommander beeing worse than every other card in all sets i would say or at least one of the worst cards in hearthstone – yes it needed a nerf but giving your charge minion +1 REALLY?
korkron elite - alright still there, still standig stong but thats it
what brings me to the new player expirience
when I started hearthstone I wanted to play priest and warrior since the begining - they were the classes that really interested me the most of all others but i just could't beat any other classes so I had to play mage to be somehow winning games witch really felt bad.
so, then I looked what could I do... the best cards in warrior are epic shield slam, dead man’s hand, brawl and some others. So, to be somewhat viable by playing warrior I did play a lot of hearthstone and since then I have over 1000 wins with warrior in ranked and went legend with it but in order to get there I had do get these very expensive good cards.
which to me is sad because a new player can’t really decide a class at the start that they really looking forward to playing and have a good experience because they mostly lose against the other strong base strength of other classes.
Now that I have said that I’m very interested in what you lads got to say about it – now please those that dislike warrior it’s ok to think so because I don’t like all classes either but try to be fair. I might come up with another class but warrior as being my favorite class and being torn apart urged me to post this topic first.
Charge - poorly designed mechanic, but the flavor remains with rush. Rush Warrior is an ok deck right now, and will get a lot better once the infinite value cards rotate.
Enrage - has always been a weak keyword, I'd rather they move on to more interesting themes rather than try and push it every other expansion.
Cost - With the exception of midrange hunter, most good decks are pretty expensive. The hero power for warrior always lends itself to control, so obviously the dust cost will be higher.
You forgot about the almighty Grommash Hellscream, which single-handedly bumps up two of your concerns. Maybe not very efficiently for Wild terms, but I am sure that some creativity can get him to work farily well. Maybe the new weapon could help.
As for the rest, your points are fair, but I think you are taking the flavour from a slightly wrong perspective: the best in some limited set of X skills. The set of skills is somehow subjective, and demanding a class to be the best at each of them carries over balance problems, which you have noticed. Those balance problems have the highest priority, so giving strong charge options to Warrior cannot be a thing whatsoever.
From the opponent perspective (Warrior is one of my scavenged classes), I give you that warrior feels either as a mad tank that cannot shoot very well, unless the enemy has been immobilized (Odd Warrior) or a madman who tries to slap your face until one dies.
Maybe the deck that best represents Warrior is Rush Warrior, and I am sure it is just a matter of releases before it becomes top tier within the class.
I think they could do some more work with altering hero powers to give more flavor. Sort of like Baku but instead of just upgrading the hero power give it a new focus.
Lets say you wanted an enrage focus.
Balron the Taskmaster CC - 5 7/4 If you have this card in your deck at the beginning of the game your hero power becomes, 'Give a minion +1 atk and deal 1 damage to it. Cost 2'
Now you have a hero power worth building an enrage deck around. And due to the Baku design you always can rely on it.
You could do this for a lot of archetypes that need some help. Easy enough to balance by adjusting the cost of the hero power if something seem OP or not strong enough.
This is a pretty god sum of a lot of the mistakes blizzard have made and how they have impacted one class. Having played since beta I can remember some of the great things you could do with this class due to how it interacted with the effects we had back then.
Especially Warsong Commander made som cool plays possible, and the nerf killed it. With blizzard then deciding to stop anything charge related they have set its corpse on fire, just for good measure.
I will also agree with you on the armor gain, but I think team 5 might have gotten a little scared with the Justicar Trueheart armor gain warriors we saw back then, especially since there wasn't that many combo decks to kill them, you either went fast or lost. But why they decided to allow it for druid, and followed up with tons of taunt is beyond me.
and blizzard reason to kill enrage is beyond me, the effect was not hard to understand and I think they missed the oppertunity to make some interesting cards with it. They did for example not explore it as a support mechanism, like "Enrage - your other minion have 0/+1" use it to give the opponent -1/0 or cool things like when enraged adjacent minions takes 1 damage at the end of your turn.
Blizzard should take a look at the basic and classic warrior cards and see how many of them they have made unplayable with the changes they have made over the years, and the make some changes.
Personally I would love to see them revert some of the nerfs they have made in basic and classic and see how they will play in into todays meta.
agreed back when warrior could actually compete with FWaxe and death's bite etc. When you qued into priest and hated life now both classes are taking a backseat. Has druid ever been a t3 or the worst class? naaa
That was a tough read- a little punctuation goes a long way. I think it's natural for a game this old to have classes switch it up. It's like a long-running sit-com where everyone has been in a relationship with each other at one point. Also, from the beginning Warrior had too many themes: armor, weapons, charge, and enrage/damage minions were hard to fit into one archetype.
I think all if not most of the classes are experiencing some form of this as well.
Priests are not the best healers, Hunters are not the best SMOrcers, Warrior is not the best at weapons/armor, etc.
The list goes on, but there is certainly a big shift going on right now (has been since Mammoth I think).
Not sure if this is Team 5's way of keeping things interesting or what, but I would think they could come up with something more novel instead of recycling themes into other classes.
I feel you though, I think Warrior is in a nasty spot, especially for new players. I've been playing since before Naxx and I still have exactly 6 ladder wins with Warrior. This is because they've only ever had dust-expensive decks, besides PW which I refuse to play. I don't like the class enough to craft all the Legendaries and (especially) Epics that the class requires.
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Nature is the Day. Man is the Sun. Woman is the Moon. The Stone is the Sky. The Art is the Way.
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand the warrior class. The thinning is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical cardgames most of the draws will go over a typical players's head. There's also garrosh's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Rafael Sabatini literature, for instance. A Truly warrior player understands this stuff; he has the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of those draws, to realize that they're not just insane - they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who misreview this class truly ARE idiots - of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Garrosh's existencial summon call "Victory or death!," which itself is a cryptic reference to Ayn Rands's character Ragnar Danneskjöld. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Ben Brodes's genius unfolds itself on their computer screens. What fools... how I pity them. 😂 And yes by the way, I DO have a Horde tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.
TL:DR warrior is in a class identity crisis. No good weapons, no good charge things anymore, enrage literally isn't a keyword anymore, armor gain is slower than druid armor gain, etc.
As for my two cents on the actual topic, I think Blizzard has just shoehorned itself into making warrior a control only class. Many of the good cards printed for the class are all late game/control cards and whenever the class does get a good card printed for more aggressive/midrange deck, there just isn't enough support for it.
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I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
What is concerning is the lack of support for Warsong Commander , it gets nerfed with every expansion that does not have printed Charge minions for the class. Might as well just replace it if you want to get rid of Charge it only makes sense.
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Now perhaps i`m a bit overreacting because i am a Warrior-main. But i feel that warrior has lost a lot of flavor and please don't judge me after reading have of the post. I took my time to do this post and it is not a salty post - i just want to bring up my thoughts and perhaps a known streamer like kripp, kibler or even blizzard will see this post and reply with their thoughts which would really make me happy
here are a lot of critics and it's not because i'm angry but rather frustrated
__________________________________________________________________________________
Warrior was the best or one of the best classes in hearthstone for a long time - unfortunately i couldn’t have fun then because i didn't play hearthstone back then...
Now I’ve been playing warrior a lot (have over 1000 wins in rank so yeah a lot will say wow thats a lot - so the class is in good shape then...? Well there are a lot of arguments and there is a yes and a no to it
Odd warrior sees pretty good success in the meta right and you see some rushwarriors from time to time pop up but it`s not competing with other classes the same way
what my main problem is not that warrior is very weak right now(well lets be fair it is kind of but I don't have a problem if it's not in the dumpster over a year) but the overall power level as a base class and the whole flavor in the class let me to bring up this post and bring in my thoughts that will hopefully gain some good discussion
___________________________________________________________________________________
It was the class with the best weapons, the class with the most armorgain, the class with enrage, the class with charge.
The best Weapons
Fiery war axe - yes I’m bringing it up was the best weapon in hearthstone being now one of the worst - shouldn't warrior have the best weapons - i think they should because it is a weapon heavy class
did it need a nerf - perhaps but now the early game of warrior is horrible i mean really horrible
the problem with it was pirate warrior - alright it was a problem i didn’t play back then but I’ve seen some older vids from kripp so yeah that was bad but now pirate warrior is a tier 2 in wild and a lot will say I hate that deck and I understand that but can’t we all agree that big priest is way worse than pirate warrior - I mean really if you play any other class than rogue you almost have no chance ...
armorgain
yes, warrior uses their armor differently than others but really druid can use 2x ferocious howl 1 branching path on turn 10 (turn 6/7 \(OoO)/haha) losing one card and gaining 26-32 armor without downside and condition
Warrior needs consistently more cards without drawing them gaining a downside with bring it on to gain that much armor
Enrage
Warrior was the class that used enrage the most because of their wirlwindeffects and it was just kind of the keyword to emphasize the class btw enrage warrior never worked - that being said team 5 decided to cut out the keyword still making more of those cards
not that that is the problem, but all other aspects of warrior are gone and now taking that away to is pretty hard for warrior players
Charge
Warrior has korkron elite, charge as a spell and warsongcomander. None of the other classes have that many charge cards - but what happened? charge as a mechanic isn’t favored in Team 5 so it got nerfed.
Not the mechanic but a lot of the cards and everything that goes with it.
The Spell "charge" will never ever see play again it`s just soo bad
Warsongcommander beeing worse than every other card in all sets i would say or at least one of the worst cards in hearthstone – yes it needed a nerf but giving your charge minion +1 REALLY?
korkron elite - alright still there, still standig stong but thats it
what brings me to the new player expirience
when I started hearthstone I wanted to play priest and warrior since the begining - they were the classes that really interested me the most of all others but i just could't beat any other classes so I had to play mage to be somehow winning games witch really felt bad.
so, then I looked what could I do... the best cards in warrior are epic shield slam, dead man’s hand, brawl and some others. So, to be somewhat viable by playing warrior I did play a lot of hearthstone and since then I have over 1000 wins with warrior in ranked and went legend with it but in order to get there I had do get these very expensive good cards.
which to me is sad because a new player can’t really decide a class at the start that they really looking forward to playing and have a good experience because they mostly lose against the other strong base strength of other classes.
Now that I have said that I’m very interested in what you lads got to say about it – now please those that dislike warrior it’s ok to think so because I don’t like all classes either but try to be fair. I might come up with another class but warrior as being my favorite class and being torn apart urged me to post this topic first.
Warriors taste better if you marinate them in teriyaki sauce before frying them.
While we're at it, Paladin has better healing than Priest.
Shaman have better spell damage decks then mage and mage have much better elemental synergy then Shaman
They aggro better than hunters too.
Agreed. Druid currently has more warrior flavor than warrior itself.
It s the same for all class, they just rotate mechanism in each class.
Weapons - Supercollider
Armor - Dr. Boom, Mad Genius, Baku the Mooneater, or more recently Emberscale Drake.
Charge - poorly designed mechanic, but the flavor remains with rush. Rush Warrior is an ok deck right now, and will get a lot better once the infinite value cards rotate.
Enrage - has always been a weak keyword, I'd rather they move on to more interesting themes rather than try and push it every other expansion.
Cost - With the exception of midrange hunter, most good decks are pretty expensive. The hero power for warrior always lends itself to control, so obviously the dust cost will be higher.
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
You forgot about the almighty Grommash Hellscream, which single-handedly bumps up two of your concerns. Maybe not very efficiently for Wild terms, but I am sure that some creativity can get him to work farily well. Maybe the new weapon could help.
As for the rest, your points are fair, but I think you are taking the flavour from a slightly wrong perspective: the best in some limited set of X skills. The set of skills is somehow subjective, and demanding a class to be the best at each of them carries over balance problems, which you have noticed. Those balance problems have the highest priority, so giving strong charge options to Warrior cannot be a thing whatsoever.
From the opponent perspective (Warrior is one of my scavenged classes), I give you that warrior feels either as a mad tank that cannot shoot very well, unless the enemy has been immobilized (Odd Warrior) or a madman who tries to slap your face until one dies.
Maybe the deck that best represents Warrior is Rush Warrior, and I am sure it is just a matter of releases before it becomes top tier within the class.
But Wild meta is tough...
Even warlock has better heal
I think they could do some more work with altering hero powers to give more flavor. Sort of like Baku but instead of just upgrading the hero power give it a new focus.
Lets say you wanted an enrage focus.
Balron the Taskmaster
CC - 5
7/4
If you have this card in your deck at the beginning of the game your hero power becomes, 'Give a minion +1 atk and deal 1 damage to it. Cost 2'
Now you have a hero power worth building an enrage deck around. And due to the Baku design you always can rely on it.
You could do this for a lot of archetypes that need some help. Easy enough to balance by adjusting the cost of the hero power if something seem OP or not strong enough.
Galavant Animation
This is a pretty god sum of a lot of the mistakes blizzard have made and how they have impacted one class.
Having played since beta I can remember some of the great things you could do with this class due to how it interacted with the effects we had back then.
Especially Warsong Commander made som cool plays possible, and the nerf killed it. With blizzard then deciding to stop anything charge related they have set its corpse on fire, just for good measure.
I will also agree with you on the armor gain, but I think team 5 might have gotten a little scared with the Justicar Trueheart armor gain warriors we saw back then, especially since there wasn't that many combo decks to kill them, you either went fast or lost.
But why they decided to allow it for druid, and followed up with tons of taunt is beyond me.
and blizzard reason to kill enrage is beyond me, the effect was not hard to understand and I think they missed the oppertunity to make some interesting cards with it. They did for example not explore it as a support mechanism, like "Enrage - your other minion have 0/+1" use it to give the opponent -1/0 or cool things like when enraged adjacent minions takes 1 damage at the end of your turn.
Blizzard should take a look at the basic and classic warrior cards and see how many of them they have made unplayable with the changes they have made over the years, and the make some changes.
Personally I would love to see them revert some of the nerfs they have made in basic and classic and see how they will play in into todays meta.
agreed back when warrior could actually compete with FWaxe and death's bite etc. When you qued into priest and hated life now both classes are taking a backseat. Has druid ever been a t3 or the worst class? naaa
That was a tough read- a little punctuation goes a long way. I think it's natural for a game this old to have classes switch it up. It's like a long-running sit-com where everyone has been in a relationship with each other at one point. Also, from the beginning Warrior had too many themes: armor, weapons, charge, and enrage/damage minions were hard to fit into one archetype.
What is the tldr of post. That to much reading.
I think Magni is underpowered atm but Garosh is pretty decent in this meta.
I think all if not most of the classes are experiencing some form of this as well.
Priests are not the best healers, Hunters are not the best SMOrcers, Warrior is not the best at weapons/armor, etc.
The list goes on, but there is certainly a big shift going on right now (has been since Mammoth I think).
Not sure if this is Team 5's way of keeping things interesting or what, but I would think they could come up with something more novel instead of recycling themes into other classes.
I feel you though, I think Warrior is in a nasty spot, especially for new players. I've been playing since before Naxx and I still have exactly 6 ladder wins with Warrior. This is because they've only ever had dust-expensive decks, besides PW which I refuse to play. I don't like the class enough to craft all the Legendaries and (especially) Epics that the class requires.
Nature is the Day.
Man is the Sun.
Woman is the Moon.
The Stone is the Sky.
The Art is the Way.
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand the warrior class. The thinning is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical cardgames most of the draws will go over a typical players's head. There's also garrosh's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Rafael Sabatini literature, for instance. A Truly warrior player understands this stuff; he has the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of those draws, to realize that they're not just insane - they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who misreview this class truly ARE idiots - of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Garrosh's existencial summon call "Victory or death!," which itself is a cryptic reference to Ayn Rands's character Ragnar Danneskjöld. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Ben Brodes's genius unfolds itself on their computer screens. What fools... how I pity them. 😂 And yes by the way, I DO have a Horde tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.
TL:DR warrior is in a class identity crisis. No good weapons, no good charge things anymore, enrage literally isn't a keyword anymore, armor gain is slower than druid armor gain, etc.
As for my two cents on the actual topic, I think Blizzard has just shoehorned itself into making warrior a control only class. Many of the good cards printed for the class are all late game/control cards and whenever the class does get a good card printed for more aggressive/midrange deck, there just isn't enough support for it.
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
What is concerning is the lack of support for Warsong Commander , it gets nerfed with every expansion that does not have printed Charge minions for the class. Might as well just replace it if you want to get rid of Charge it only makes sense.