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If you haven't noticed, in the past 2 or so years, Blizzard has been pushing archetypes by heavy use of class cards and class legendaries. This makes different classes actually feel like different games.
The expansions had the problem that there wasn't enough cards to actually push any new archetypes. All legendaries were neutral, and each class got 3 cards each. If you try to push a new archetype, it just doesn't work with one or two cards (Purify), and then it's a total wasted expansion for a class. You're basically forced to just print cards that work with the existing meta, or push a tier 3 deck to tier 2. It doesn't change anything.
But hey, what about Reno and Brann? Well, Blizzard didn't like deck-defining neutral legendaries because then every deck you face plays the same. Hey, it's Renolock. Hey, it's Renomage. In the end, it's the same. The neutral legendaries since probably after WotOG have all been cards that don't define a deck, but can fit into decks as a good/support card (C'Thun, N'Zoth being the last one)s to define the deck). Go back to Expansions and then you're back with a bunch of Renodecks and a bunch of <insert legendary> decks, or you have no change to the meta.
What do people really want out of an expansion? PvE content? Easier access to all the cards? I'm not sure what people want other than the issue of not having X legendary, which, unfortunately, is going to be life in a collector game.
Well, given how many people blindly preorder before even seeing 10 cards, it doesn't surprise me that Blizzard doesn't care. I still stand by the belief that not preordering is the only way to send a message, be it to change how Blizzard makes the expansions or how they do card reveals.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Could you please watch your mouth a bit and stop insulting people who has a different opinion than yours like crazy?
For all the Hearthpwners who call me toxic, well, here you have an example of how a real toxic user behaves.
I really don't know if Blizzard bringing back adventures would really change something, some of them were great and others a disaster, just like expansions, so I have my doubts.
i disagree about being a new player after adventures is bad. have you tried being a new player now? because i have, and let me tell you what, having 6 expansions to buy from is about as difficult as fitting a camel through the eye of a needle. when i was new, durring old gods. there was grand tournament, old gods, and classic. that was it. then later i bought one night in karazan, league of explorers, and blackrock.
the problem your friends had was they were trying to build top tier decks from the get go, they were looking at their collection through the eyes of a old player. and wanting more and more. but if you go through it as a new player, then having 3 sets to buy from is a lot better than 6. especially when we have 25 new floors for new players, meaning that you can go slower, and dont have to worry about spending 700 gold on 5 cards. because most other people on ranks >25 will have the same trouble getting there as you.
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
yes but spending 1600 gold on tirion means probably dusting most of what you got from those 16 packs.
and spending 3500 gold on avenge also gets you, lets see, Poison Seeds, Webspinner, Duplicate, Dark Cultist, Anub'ar Ambusher, Reincarnate, Voidcaller, Death's Bite, Baron Rivendare, Feugen, Stalagg, Kel'Thuzad, Loatheb, Maexxna, Echoing Ooze, Shade of Naxxramas, Deathlord, Nerubian Egg, Sludge Belcher, Wailing Soul, Dancing Swords, Haunted Creeper, Mad Scientist, Nerub'ar Weblord, Spectral Knight, Stoneskin Gargoyle, Undertaker, Unstable Ghoul, and Zombie Chow that seems to be as good value as 35 packs might get you, 6 legendaries rather than just 1-2. it is just because you have to save 700 gold, and then spend it all at once rather than just spending 100 gold as it comes, 7 times, that it feels like bad value.
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
you could try to be a bit more polite, i never said i was trying to start a street riot, or storm blizzard headquarters until they give us what we want. i was never whining about how greedy blizzard is, or that i am entitled to the best stuff while not paying any money.
i was just asking and you are trying to respond to almost any argument made to support any kind of free stuff to people who dont pay.
Rejoice, for even in death, you have become children of Thanos.
The only really big problem was the fact that you could not choose which wing to unlock with the 700 gold and that is all.
If they are just smart and spread some deck archetypes between all wings letting player to decide which flavor he wants to try with 700 gold then it solves most of the problems.
Note : Each wing having a flavor <recipe> of something.
You can also try adding more wings if card pool needed to be bigger (+1/2 wings),as long as you can choose wings and cards are spread smart i do not see a world where this is bad.
That's not a good assumption to make. These people weren't trying to have a Tier 1 hyper control deck. They were looking for a deck that can at least get to rank 15, especially since by then rank 20 was full of folks noob bashing with hyper expensive decks.
At first, you could make a hunter or zoo deck without legendaries that could at least get you to rank 15 within a few weeks. Not much more but it was enough to get your foot in the door. Cards like Mad Scientist weren't just for tier 1 decks. They were for ANY deck that had half a chance.
You came in when the worst of the problem, Naxx, was removed. BRM you could literally just get the first wing and be happy (by old gods, there were decks that flat out ignored it). LoE was much trickier, but you mostly just needed the first two wings to really get thing going and I bet you could make decks without it. TGT was well known for being an utterly horrible expansion, so you mostly relied on old Gods.
So yeah, that was a better time for being a new player, which was the point of Rotation.
But your experience was nothing like the experience of the folks during TGT, which is where a lot of my heat against expansions come from.
You're looking at the rarities and no tat what cards you actually need, though. For example, the only good legendary in that set was Loatheb. Kel'thuzad was a meme and the rest were trash.
If you were a warlock trying to build a zoo deck, at first it was easy, a lot of your cards were in the first floor. But during TGT zoo had gone demon with lots of expensive legendaries inside it. Meanwhile every hunter and mage deck needed two cards: haunted creeper and mad scientist. You didn't need anything else from the set. However, you STILL needed to BUY all of those cards before getting to mad scientist, and that was a required card back then.
A lot of all of this can be relieved by what others suggested: letting people buy the wings in any order. However, I doubt that would be offered as we had been fussing at Blizzard to do that since Naxx and it never happened.
And it doesn't solve the other issue with Adventures, the impact of the cards inside. Some people say "Yeah, a few cards that REALLY change the meta." That's NOT a good thing when you then have to follow up on those high impact cards later on. it creates sets like Mean Streets and Kobolds, the former bringing one of the worst metas we've ever had and the later being a principle reason why we're having problems this entire year.
We don't need 'high impact single cards'. We need low impact cards that synergize well between sets so that multiple sets become viable and valuable and so that the high powered decks they eventually create don't last 2 years plaguing the meta.
(oh the person that suggested 2 expansions and 2 adventures... I'd have to see how that fits into the F2P lifestyle but.. maybe that if Adventures end up a WHOLE lot more player friendly).
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Wow that's very narrow point of view.
If they didn't print class legendary before doesn't mean that they can never print class Legendary for Adventures.
How many filler cards are printed in each expansion? close to 80%? from my observation when we had adventures, probably 50% of the cards have seen play at some stage or another. Even Karazan the worst adventure still have bigger ratio of cards that see play compare to Booms day and RR.
Small card pool from Adventure is also healthy for community to actually experiment with new cards, they ensure the small card pool that they printed make impact to the the meta, not just dumping 140+ cards full of fillers and reprint cards just because they can make more money.
I agree with 2 expansions and 2 adventures each year, that means a new content every 3 months.
brann bronzebeard and reno say hi
silence priest was a tier 2-3 deck at some point
Adventures provided a good incentive to play them - unlockable in game content that was sometimes required for top competitive play. And it was a nice break between full sets, instead of "sigh............great, another $50 pre-order that I can't pass up...."
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Purify was a great card to print. It was a great meme that resulted in a cute Tier 4 deck(no, not 3. it was brought into tournaments in the first few weeks, then mostly fell off the map competitively).
What sucked is that it went into an Adventure where there was no room for such hyjinks. Priest needed good cards and only had 3 class cards to put into their deck to make it happen. Had One Night been an Expnansion, Purify would be in the same boat as Surrender to Madness along side good cards to make a deck work (which is what happened in Mean Streets).
sidenote to the "Bran/Reno says hi" reliance on legendaries as your power level increase results in a VERY high roll deck that's not very healthy. Reno literally destroyed aggro decks when he showed, but you would instantly die if he didn't show. Since you had a 50% chance of getting him by turn 6 if you mulliganed for him (yes we calculated it back then) games were literally a coin flip to see who won. But he and the other legendaries HAD to be strong or else LoE would've been a bad set. Bran broke a good number of decks when he showed. Elise did for Control mirrors what Reno did vs aggro (though it was more of a race to see who got a 'critical' first instead of one coin flip).
Reno and frends are a pretty good examples of part of the problem with Adventures, not a sign of why we need them.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
"Reno destroyed aggro decks/made them a coinflip, that's why Adventures are bad," is illogical. By the same logic, Jade Idol is the reason why we don't need full expansions ever again.
Instead of blaming the content format, blame the card itself.
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So HS players are just as much struck by nostalgia and misconception as any other community. No, the grass wasn't greener. I loved LoE, but thinking that adventures had more quality cards than expansion is just plain wrong. This is not my opinion, just literally count the cards used from each expansion and adventure and look at the cards that became part of the meta. Expansion just simply top adventures there. The one-of failure TGT was, doesn't weigh that down.
Every single adventure had filler cards including bad legendaries. Karazhan was the absolute low which is why Blizz quit them. Some of you either didn't play back then or have just forgotten that adventures barely shook up anything. Yes, LoE did but that was only thanks to Elise Starseeker and Reno Jackson. Especially Reno combines ups and lows of car quality. A polarizing card indeed but it was also a great incentive to build decks around. Compare it to Baku and Genn, it's basicly the same. The PvE content itself ranged from completely forgetable over stupidly imbalanced to spectular and fun.
Also, people cried for months to have more cards released which is why Blizz took a pity. No, going back to adventures strikes me as a bad idea. Card quality isn't bound to the number of expansions or whether they reintroduce adventures. I prefer the current take on it: We get the expansion AND PvE content as an extra. 400 cards a year is nothing in comparison to other card games.
Bring It On!
the HS community has always been about as consistent als BLizzard's wording on cards. At this point they'll demand things just for the sake of it.
I remember when about a year after Standard was established people were already goin "old format was so much better, Standard will die, they should revert, waaaah"....and very soon after that came the "Wild is dead because of all the powercreep, aaaaah"
Same thing abot how every new meta is somehow "THE WORST" and whenver someone points out every other instance of a clearly worse meta they go "but _______ was never as cancerous as _______". After lambasting Gadgetzan for being rock paper scissors for 4 months, it's suddenly so much better than WW because "Odd Paladin is soooo much worse than Pirate Warrior and I can't even, pls let me win with my dumpster decks that I cooked up while masturbating".
I mean you're seeing it rght now with all the brainlets going "Rumble is such a weak expansion, gg Blizzard no new meta" while just about a month before everyone unanimously complained how the powercreep from previous expansions ruined the meta.
This is why I actually have to give BLizzard credit that even though they're pretty much constantly being bombarded by opinions from every ape, who thinks he figured out what is wrong with the game and fixing it will solve all problems, they don't actually let themselves be pressued to make rushed decisions.
Like, has anyone even noticed how pretty much all of the past nerfs have absolutely hit the mark? Every single nerf had pretty much the expected impact on the meta and yet the bird brains still whine about how BLizzard has no idea how to actually balance the game.
I remember a time when People went "Blizztard doesn'T how HUnter works so they will neveer give him an actual control build". Now Hunter is pretty much the class with the strongest deck archetypes and plays a variety of slower decks and all of a sudden it'S like "Hunter was never meant to do this, go back to the time when they lost after getting to turn 8."
TL;DR the community doesn't brain, but Daddy Blizzard is a kind father and forgives them over and over.
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
If been playing since Nax. So here is the big question when did I buy my 2nd nax wing? i got the 1st one for free during the promotion blizzard had. I got to rank 15 without the rest and any other adventure but ill admit i didnt play during undertaker meta.
Answer:The week before Old god got released i bough the 2nd wing you didnt need them to get to rank 15.
So I only played the card's for 1 week in standard.
The factor which is most often at the root of community complaints regarding the game is that HS releases far too few cards every year. It's not obvious how cutting a further hundred cards from an already tiny pie would do anything to help the game.
HS releases far fewer than half as many cards every year as MtG, and splits them twice as many different ways. The consequences for diversity, balance, and sterility of the game are pretty obvious. Prior to its recent rotation, the Standard format in MtG consisted of over 2,000 cards. The Wild format in HS won't have more than 2,000 cards until next summer - more than five years after the game launched. And since the game splits those cards ten different ways, instead of five, or six, or seven, the Wild format won't "feel" as diverse as Standard MtG for another three or four years after that. The Standard format in HS, in contrast, will peak with about half as many cards as Standard MtG, split twice as many different ways - it will always "feel" more stagnant, and less diverse than MtG. Cutting one hundred cards every year, and two hundred every Standard cycle, will only make matters much worse.