VS report saying it’s the least impactful expansion ever, only raiding party and zuljinn matter and everything else is memes. can’t say I disagree. However, there is always hope for nerfs or undiscovered decks that could pop up. Personally I think it’s because team 5 is making an effort to slow down the powercreep which got out of control with year of the mammoth. the problem is printing lukewarm cards is almost as bad. I am optimistic at this point that April’s rotation will be a huge restart for standard and that things could improve from there. For now I’m just gonna start saving my gold and wait and see.
I love the cards, hate the players. The amount of Kingsbane rogues and odd pallies I face in rank 20 is mind boggling. Those players are done having fun with new stuff 5 days into an expansion.
It will be good after next year rotation as currently the broken/proven archetypes are too dominant to beat,
Previous year expansion were too strong and as a result this year expansion were not impactful.
Next year most strongest archetypes will be gone (all Druids, Hunters and Warlocks), and Baku Paladin will go as well, so we can build new decks based on this year expansion. The only big threat to next year Meta is Baku warrior which will stay very strong and will get rid of his biggest counters (combo and DKs decks)
Least impactful ever? Is that true? Because I remember skipping The Grand Tournament completely and when I came back for Whispers it was honestly like I didn't even miss an expansion.
just to be clear I’m not the one making the report using 60,000 games as data and making a damning report on this expansion, I happen to agree with VS but don’t kill the messenger. I’m actually trying to be positive here and say down the road it might be okay.
Yeah, it's generally tough to make an impact with this many sets in standard. This is the first time we've had six full sets (no adventures) in the meta at one time. The last pre-rotation set also added some majorly overpowered cards (pre-nerf Corridor Creeper, Spiteful Summoner, Possessed Lackey, etc.). I prefer this approach of making reasonably balanced cards and waiting it out rather than just trying keep pace with mistakes of the past.
This is because of the MASSIVE card pool. We have never had this many cards in standard. Adventures have all rotated which has much less cards in them. We have expansions exclusively and are right before a rotation. More cards from this expansion will see play after rotation.
I can't speak for the VS report, but HSReplays has tracked over 11 million games since the set launched. Currently, they are tracking 24 decks with win-rates above 50%. Five of them didn't exist on December 3. Everyone is free to decide whether that's a big impact, or a small one. FWIW - the set increased the size of the Standard card pool by a little more than 10%, and all things being equal, it's reasonable to expect that the post-set meta-game will be about 10% different than the pre-set meta-game . . .
I can't speak for the VS report, but HSReplays has tracked over 11 million games since the set launched. Currently, they are tracking 24 decks with win-rates above 50%. Five of them didn't exist on December 3. Everyone is free to decide whether that's a big impact, or a small one. FWIW - the set increased the size of the Standard card pool by a little more than 10%, and all things being equal, it's reasonable to expect that the post-set meta-game will be about 10% different than the pre-set meta-game . . .
this puts it into perspective quite nicely. I think a lot of people, myself included, were overly hyped by the card reveals and it’s a tough pill to swallow that it’s not going to be completely different each expansion
This set has a low impact because it is the last set before rotation. And since last year's set were OP it makes it even more noticable. Rotation will make an enormous impact and you'll see more cards from the expansions released this year. New archetypes and a better balance.
This year's expansions bombed one at a time. Witchwood needed nerfs to actually kickstart the year of the Raven, BDP lost its one good card to the nerf bat and now Rastakhan's Rumble awaits another round of nerfs so it finally takes off.
Still, I don't blame Blizzard for this. The truth is this community is so filled with unoriginal mouthbreathers it cannot be faulted on Blizzard that nobody touches new cards. The means are there, but people are sheep. When you'd rather play Odd Paladin Game #2395837593 at Rank 20 than try to give your FREE LOA a spin during the first week, I'm sorry, but you might legitimately be less interesting to be around than a jockstrap.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Sorry, but theres a lot of blubber in this thread:
"It's better that it's weak, next year the game will be in a much better place"
Sorry, but making a weak set is in general stupid: weak cards lead that standard-set matters more, people are not getting exited about an expansion where you know that many cards might only be viable after an rotation. Also blizzard still didn't understand that an virtual card game does not need pack filler. This time too; there are simply too many cards that are simply pack-filler. Should the expansion be as insane as Kobolts and Catacombs? Not sure, but what's true is that both Knights and Kobolts were pretty impactful expansions: some cards are very strong, but they had also many new mechanics, for example: Carnivous Cube. It's cards like this that creates completely new archetypes.
A weak expansion might be better in an surrealistic picture that a general low power level is better for the game in a grand picture, but in reality it isn't.
"It's only 2 weeks"
Another blubbering; sorry, but this is not a brand new game; hearthstone exist very long, and people are getting faster and faster creating decks. I really doubt that we see something extraordinary with this very much ordinary cards in the future anymore; at least in standard. Also with tools we have like hsreplay that didn't exist before, it's now much more easier to find out what cards impact the game the most. This does not mean that from now on there will be now new decks, but i pretty much doubt that there will be a new tier 1 deck after 1-2 weeks, created from ground up. At least not until a balance-change.
That's above for standard: wild might actually take longer for this to happen; and there are also far less players there; so finding out all new decks is much more work, since there are now too many cards now. Surprises are far more common in this kind of environment.
But what makes this expansion so... mediocre is the absolute blantness of it. It's just a new expansion with a new pve-mode. Now new game mode like tournament mode; no new event, simply nothing really exciting happening at all. It's just new card packs to open and new pve-modes to do.
Rastakhan's Rumble would have been the best expansion to bring out tournament-mode (and i think they probably planned it this way); but they didn't.
People also need to stop bashing on people who play old decks...They are not all rich to pre order and get the legendaries they want..
But people keep on harashing them so what can you say hmm...
Blizzard gives us all a free Loa with its two totems. You can literally buy 0 new packs and you will still have a direction to go towards with a random buildaround legendary. Sure, it will be a bad deck, completely unrefined and if it does take off it will probably need more new cards. But this whole excuse of being poor to play old, safe, boring decks no longer works now.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
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VS report saying it’s the least impactful expansion ever, only raiding party and zuljinn matter and everything else is memes. can’t say I disagree. However, there is always hope for nerfs or undiscovered decks that could pop up. Personally I think it’s because team 5 is making an effort to slow down the powercreep which got out of control with year of the mammoth. the problem is printing lukewarm cards is almost as bad. I am optimistic at this point that April’s rotation will be a huge restart for standard and that things could improve from there. For now I’m just gonna start saving my gold and wait and see.
or you could excercise your brain a little and realize that many decks aren't discovered in the first two weeks of an expansion...
Yes I do mention that in my post, like 3 sentences in. Excercise your brain and read?
RR released less than 14 days ago and you're convinced that some kind of "meta" hasn't been shaken up yet? Wow, tell us more CoolStoryBob
Why do people keep saying this ? Ive been playing against the same decks 1 hour into every expansion and the last day of new exspansion.
Not sure if people havent noticed that HS team more or less makes every deck for us, you can see what fits togheter amile away.
Its called money machine, so people need to craft lots of cards to play those specific decks.
I love the cards, hate the players. The amount of Kingsbane rogues and odd pallies I face in rank 20 is mind boggling. Those players are done having fun with new stuff 5 days into an expansion.
It will be good after next year rotation as currently the broken/proven archetypes are too dominant to beat,
Previous year expansion were too strong and as a result this year expansion were not impactful.
Next year most strongest archetypes will be gone (all Druids, Hunters and Warlocks), and Baku Paladin will go as well, so we can build new decks based on this year expansion. The only big threat to next year Meta is Baku warrior which will stay very strong and will get rid of his biggest counters (combo and DKs decks)
Least impactful ever? Is that true? Because I remember skipping The Grand Tournament completely and when I came back for Whispers it was honestly like I didn't even miss an expansion.
just to be clear I’m not the one making the report using 60,000 games as data and making a damning report on this expansion, I happen to agree with VS but don’t kill the messenger. I’m actually trying to be positive here and say down the road it might be okay.
I think VS started with wotog, so at best it’s the 2nd least impactful expansion ever
Yeah, it's generally tough to make an impact with this many sets in standard. This is the first time we've had six full sets (no adventures) in the meta at one time. The last pre-rotation set also added some majorly overpowered cards (pre-nerf Corridor Creeper, Spiteful Summoner, Possessed Lackey, etc.). I prefer this approach of making reasonably balanced cards and waiting it out rather than just trying keep pace with mistakes of the past.
This is because of the MASSIVE card pool. We have never had this many cards in standard. Adventures have all rotated which has much less cards in them. We have expansions exclusively and are right before a rotation. More cards from this expansion will see play after rotation.
Meta is just all hunters. Hunter expansion?
I can't speak for the VS report, but HSReplays has tracked over 11 million games since the set launched. Currently, they are tracking 24 decks with win-rates above 50%. Five of them didn't exist on December 3. Everyone is free to decide whether that's a big impact, or a small one. FWIW - the set increased the size of the Standard card pool by a little more than 10%, and all things being equal, it's reasonable to expect that the post-set meta-game will be about 10% different than the pre-set meta-game . . .
this puts it into perspective quite nicely. I think a lot of people, myself included, were overly hyped by the card reveals and it’s a tough pill to swallow that it’s not going to be completely different each expansion
This set has a low impact because it is the last set before rotation. And since last year's set were OP it makes it even more noticable. Rotation will make an enormous impact and you'll see more cards from the expansions released this year. New archetypes and a better balance.
This year's expansions bombed one at a time. Witchwood needed nerfs to actually kickstart the year of the Raven, BDP lost its one good card to the nerf bat and now Rastakhan's Rumble awaits another round of nerfs so it finally takes off.
Still, I don't blame Blizzard for this. The truth is this community is so filled with unoriginal mouthbreathers it cannot be faulted on Blizzard that nobody touches new cards. The means are there, but people are sheep. When you'd rather play Odd Paladin Game #2395837593 at Rank 20 than try to give your FREE LOA a spin during the first week, I'm sorry, but you might legitimately be less interesting to be around than a jockstrap.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Sorry, but theres a lot of blubber in this thread:
"It's better that it's weak, next year the game will be in a much better place"
Sorry, but making a weak set is in general stupid: weak cards lead that standard-set matters more, people are not getting exited about an expansion where you know that many cards might only be viable after an rotation. Also blizzard still didn't understand that an virtual card game does not need pack filler. This time too; there are simply too many cards that are simply pack-filler.
Should the expansion be as insane as Kobolts and Catacombs? Not sure, but what's true is that both Knights and Kobolts were pretty impactful expansions: some cards are very strong, but they had also many new mechanics, for example: Carnivous Cube. It's cards like this that creates completely new archetypes.
A weak expansion might be better in an surrealistic picture that a general low power level is better for the game in a grand picture, but in reality it isn't.
"It's only 2 weeks"
Another blubbering; sorry, but this is not a brand new game; hearthstone exist very long, and people are getting faster and faster creating decks. I really doubt that we see something extraordinary with this very much ordinary cards in the future anymore; at least in standard. Also with tools we have like hsreplay that didn't exist before, it's now much more easier to find out what cards impact the game the most. This does not mean that from now on there will be now new decks, but i pretty much doubt that there will be a new tier 1 deck after 1-2 weeks, created from ground up. At least not until a balance-change.
That's above for standard: wild might actually take longer for this to happen; and there are also far less players there; so finding out all new decks is much more work, since there are now too many cards now. Surprises are far more common in this kind of environment.
But what makes this expansion so... mediocre is the absolute blantness of it. It's just a new expansion with a new pve-mode. Now new game mode like tournament mode; no new event, simply nothing really exciting happening at all. It's just new card packs to open and new pve-modes to do.
Rastakhan's Rumble would have been the best expansion to bring out tournament-mode (and i think they probably planned it this way); but they didn't.
People also need to stop bashing on people who play old decks...They are not all rich to pre order and get the legendaries they want..
But people keep on harashing them so what can you say hmm...
Just Another Legend Player#Kappa
Blizzard gives us all a free Loa with its two totems. You can literally buy 0 new packs and you will still have a direction to go towards with a random buildaround legendary. Sure, it will be a bad deck, completely unrefined and if it does take off it will probably need more new cards. But this whole excuse of being poor to play old, safe, boring decks no longer works now.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished