Hearthpwn

Hard matchups is one thing. Polarizing ones is another.

Kingsbane feels almost exactly the same as playing against jade druid and people hate them, because not only it's extremely polarizing, but also these cards are so terribadly designed - they make the game boring AND give you the worst frustration at the same time.

Also, rogue shouldn't be able to heal so much, as that is supposed to be the class's weakness.

I mean is not like Rogue has good heals besides Kingsbane Leeching to say that a class has too much healing.

You have to work for Healing by buffing Kingsbane.kingsbane is the only deck that actually wants healing and can make good use of the leeching because without kingsbane the leeching is really bad,is like saying rogues have bounces in Quest Rogue except the brewmasters/zola arent used in other decks same case with Leeching.

Quote from Alexandru_91 >>

I mean is not like Rogue has good heals besides Kingsbane Leeching to say that a class has too much healing.

You have to work for Healing by buffing Kingsbane.kingsbane is the only deck that actually wants healing and can make good use of the leeching because without kingsbane the leeching is really bad,is like saying rogues have bounces in Quest Rogue except the brewmasters/zola arent used in other decks same case with Leeching.

 Funny you mention Quest Rogue, a deck that was nerfed TWICE for being so much fun and interactive to play against.

Kingsbane just feels so unsatisfying to play against. Either you steamroll the Rogue, because he doesn't have the right draws. Or he gets the draws and whatever you do, you are highly likely to lose. Seems like the incarnation or polarizing match-ups. Rogue needs good weapons, KB doesn't feel like one after all.

Why does Rogue always have extremely polarized decks? First there was Quest Rogue, and now this. You're not beating this deck in this new meta unless you're playing hyper-aggro, and probably some OTK decks assumung they can pull off the combo quickly enough. There's no tech against it. It's freaking insane. 

Quote from RazorKiller >>

Why does Rogue always have extremely polarized decks? First there was Quest Rogue, and now this. You're not beating this deck in this new meta unless you're playing hyper-aggro, and probably some OTK decks assumung they can pull off the combo quickly enough. There's no tech against it. It's freaking insane. 

 Yup, i really dislike the rogue class. And whenever you critique anything about it, everyone loses their mind, because all the bouncing and mana cheating is the class identity. There are so many rogue cards that keeps rogue as THE ONE class that has polarizing matchups. sap, vanish, preparation will always cause those matchups.
In terms of kingsbane, it never feels like you are playing a game vs someone. It feels like the rogue is playing solitair. You can't play arround anything. You really can't. You can't play arround a sap. He either has it, or he doesnt. You just play as much stuff as you can and hope for the best. Even winning vs kingsbane doesn't feel like you accomplished anything, because it doesn't feel like you beat him. He just didn't beat his solitair game.

Quote from olestuga >>

Hard matchups is one thing. Polarizing ones is another.

Kingsbane feels almost exactly the same as playing against jade druid and people hate them, because not only it's extremely polarizing, but also these cards are so terribadly designed - they make the game boring AND give you the worst frustration at the same time.

Also, rogue shouldn't be able to heal so much, as that is supposed to be the class's weakness.

 but we are past this class weakness stuff. remember warlock damages itself but they easily heal anyways. or druid shouldnt remove big single minions with ease or supposed to be weak against wide boards. here we have voidlords( that can be easily summoned), spellstones and spreading plague.

Quote from yellowngreen >>

Quote from olestuga >>

Hard matchups is one thing. Polarizing ones is another.

Kingsbane feels almost exactly the same as playing against jade druid and people hate them, because not only it's extremely polarizing, but also these cards are so terribadly designed - they make the game boring AND give you the worst frustration at the same time.

Also, rogue shouldn't be able to heal so much, as that is supposed to be the class's weakness.

 but we are past this class weakness stuff. remember warlock damages itself but they easily heal anyways. or druid shouldnt remove big single minions with ease or supposed to be weak against wide boards. here we have voidlords( that can be easily summoned), spellstones and spreading plague.

 Terrible statement, druid has Naturalize which is a classic set card, so there is no reason to think Druid shouldn't be able to remove big minions, as they've been able to do it for years. Rogue has two healing cards, both added by an expansion. It's clear that rogue is not a class about healing, which just makes Leeching Poison even stupider.

Quote from Kissmealloveragain >>

Quote from yellowngreen >>

Quote from olestuga >>

Hard matchups is one thing. Polarizing ones is another.

Kingsbane feels almost exactly the same as playing against jade druid and people hate them, because not only it's extremely polarizing, but also these cards are so terribadly designed - they make the game boring AND give you the worst frustration at the same time.

Also, rogue shouldn't be able to heal so much, as that is supposed to be the class's weakness.

 but we are past this class weakness stuff. remember warlock damages itself but they easily heal anyways. or druid shouldnt remove big single minions with ease or supposed to be weak against wide boards. here we have voidlords( that can be easily summoned), spellstones and spreading plague.

 Terrible statement, druid has Naturalize which is a classic set card, so there is no reason to think Druid shouldn't be able to remove big minions, as they've been able to do it for years. Rogue has two healing cards, both added by an expansion. It's clear that rogue is not a class about healing, which just makes Leeching Poison even stupider.

 Yeah there was naturalize and never used until they made so many stall cards and an "I draw this and i win card" ( hint: its mechatun) so the HUGE downside which draws two card for your opponent, doesnt really matter anymore. Also Spellstone 1 mana deal 6 damage. which isnt hard to activate thanks to the tons of armor gain cards.

And rogue needs to build that lifesteal weapon whole game which is trash by its own.

Yeah, it’s an awful design. Especially because you can’t even die to fatigue, ever. If it’s your last card, you just attack and hero power after that so it returns into your deck. Because you can’t attack twice anyway and next turn you’ll draw it, attack with it and then hero power again, to disable fatigue.. forever.

You deserve a cookie. The proposed nerf would indeed help the game. 

Because of that only card even aggro decks struggle against kingsban... Of you didn't kill him before he has lifesteal, you can concede... I usually managed to beat it with aggro mage, but once they get the lifesteal, they are unstoppable.

Actually.... since when is gaining hp / healing a Rouge class identification thing? 

I mean Rouge sometimes run a neutral Farseer , but didn’t they learned that if you give a class that isn’t supposed to have a lot of heal , it can become quite dangerous? ( see Warlock ) 

Quote from yellowngreen >>

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Quote from olestuga >>

Hard matchups is one thing. Polarizing ones is another.

Kingsbane feels almost exactly the same as playing against jade druid and people hate them, because not only it's extremely polarizing, but also these cards are so terribadly designed - they make the game boring AND give you the worst frustration at the same time.

Also, rogue shouldn't be able to heal so much, as that is supposed to be the class's weakness.

 but we are past this class weakness stuff. remember warlock damages itself but they easily heal anyways. or druid shouldnt remove big single minions with ease or supposed to be weak against wide boards. here we have voidlords( that can be easily summoned), spellstones and spreading plague.

 Terrible statement, druid has Naturalize which is a classic set card, so there is no reason to think Druid shouldn't be able to remove big minions, as they've been able to do it for years. Rogue has two healing cards, both added by an expansion. It's clear that rogue is not a class about healing, which just makes Leeching Poison even stupider.

 Yeah there was naturalize and never used until they made so many stall cards and an "I draw this and i win card" ( hint: its mechatun) so the HUGE downside which draws two card for your opponent, doesnt really matter anymore. Also Spellstone 1 mana deal 6 damage. which isnt hard to activate thanks to the tons of armor gain cards.

And rogue needs to build that lifesteal weapon whole game which is trash by its own.

 Naturalize was used far before mechathun was born, as even the hearthstone wiki says "good in mill decks with cards like Coldlight Oracle". Forcing your opponent to draw is far better than you think. I don't even get what you're trying to argue anymore.

I'm talking about class identity, rogue is a class that as far as I know, had no class heal cards until they were added in an expansion. Since these cards will rotate out, Rogues class identity clearly is not healing. I'll give you an idea of class identity, druid. They have mana ramp in both their classic and basic set, so their class identity is clearly ramping.

But yes we can both agree that Spectral Cutlass sucks ass.

I'm a rogue player but the kingsbane is really badly designed. They should atleast nerf the Leeching Poison if they don't want to nerf the weapon itself because rogue should not heal that much. Maybe increase the cost of Leeching Poison or make it a spell that says "Give your hero lifesteal this turn". etc. It's really bad for standard.

I hate kingsbane decks, because for the one in 6 times i meet them its not worth teching in the counter cards, then when you do meet them its like watching someone play solitaire /flip a coin the exact problem blizzard said they had with quest rogue. Its inconsistent messages.

Blizzard could change game mechanics to stop milling and only shuffle back into your deck 5 times for any shuffle cards they create (the mill aspect is for wild where kingsbane is ridiculously overpowered.

The reason i brought up Quest Rogue is to show how badly designed those cards are and players have no fault in using them because they can use whatever they want.

Quest Rogue is building a minion-based Kingsbane instead of a weapon-based one nothing else.

Rogue class identity as in stands is Lifesteal on Weapons for Healing (see Leeching and Spectral).

But the problem is not Leeching, this is proven by the fact that is only found in one deck which uses ... Kingsbane (that is how bad the card is )

Problem is Kingsbane on a design perspective.

I do not wish Leeching to be nerfed but i wish they add a Trophy tab (like Hall of Fame) where Cards get rotated to "Recycle Bin" - removed from the game and can be disenchanted for Full dust anytime while also giving full dust only by having the copy (like HoF cards but disenchant value 100%).

I do not see a reason why this cannot exist in an ever-expanding game,will be a necessity anyway.

P.S: Leeching Poison is terrible on low attack weapons /Hero Power , it is only worth using it in High Attack weapons but guess what ... that also enables Blade Flurry which might be better in some cases, there are several design problems with all these cards including Blade Flurry.

Quote from Kissmealloveragain >>

Quote from yellowngreen >>

Quote from Kissmealloveragain >>

Quote from yellowngreen >>

Quote from olestuga >>

Hard matchups is one thing. Polarizing ones is another.

Kingsbane feels almost exactly the same as playing against jade druid and people hate them, because not only it's extremely polarizing, but also these cards are so terribadly designed - they make the game boring AND give you the worst frustration at the same time.

Also, rogue shouldn't be able to heal so much, as that is supposed to be the class's weakness.

 but we are past this class weakness stuff. remember warlock damages itself but they easily heal anyways. or druid shouldnt remove big single minions with ease or supposed to be weak against wide boards. here we have voidlords( that can be easily summoned), spellstones and spreading plague.

 Terrible statement, druid has Naturalize which is a classic set card, so there is no reason to think Druid shouldn't be able to remove big minions, as they've been able to do it for years. Rogue has two healing cards, both added by an expansion. It's clear that rogue is not a class about healing, which just makes Leeching Poison even stupider.

 Yeah there was naturalize and never used until they made so many stall cards and an "I draw this and i win card" ( hint: its mechatun) so the HUGE downside which draws two card for your opponent, doesnt really matter anymore. Also Spellstone 1 mana deal 6 damage. which isnt hard to activate thanks to the tons of armor gain cards.

And rogue needs to build that lifesteal weapon whole game which is trash by its own.

 Naturalize was used far before mechathun was born, as even the hearthstone wiki says "good in mill decks with cards like Coldlight Oracle". Forcing your opponent to draw is far better than you think. I don't even get what you're trying to argue anymore.

I'm talking about class identity, rogue is a class that as far as I know, had no class heal cards until they were added in an expansion. Since these cards will rotate out, Rogues class identity clearly is not healing. I'll give you an idea of class identity, druid. They have mana ramp in both their classic and basic set, so their class identity is clearly ramping.

But yes we can both agree that Spectral Cutlass sucks ass.

 do you even believe what you said about naturalize? good in mill druid. yeah sure. except mill druid sucked and still sucks. im beating them in wild daily.

milling cards is good right now because there are a lot of control combo decks. you can mill a lot of useful cards especially when you have unpassable taunt walls or mechatun.

anyway. i dont like kingsbane but there are lots of decks like this. if they dont nerf them too, i dont see any point nerfing bane.

Quote from yellowngreen >>

Quote from Kissmealloveragain >>

Quote from yellowngreen >>

Quote from Kissmealloveragain >>

Quote from yellowngreen >>

Quote from olestuga >>

Hard matchups is one thing. Polarizing ones is another.

Kingsbane feels almost exactly the same as playing against jade druid and people hate them, because not only it's extremely polarizing, but also these cards are so terribadly designed - they make the game boring AND give you the worst frustration at the same time.

Also, rogue shouldn't be able to heal so much, as that is supposed to be the class's weakness.

 but we are past this class weakness stuff. remember warlock damages itself but they easily heal anyways. or druid shouldnt remove big single minions with ease or supposed to be weak against wide boards. here we have voidlords( that can be easily summoned), spellstones and spreading plague.

 Terrible statement, druid has Naturalize which is a classic set card, so there is no reason to think Druid shouldn't be able to remove big minions, as they've been able to do it for years. Rogue has two healing cards, both added by an expansion. It's clear that rogue is not a class about healing, which just makes Leeching Poison even stupider.

 Yeah there was naturalize and never used until they made so many stall cards and an "I draw this and i win card" ( hint: its mechatun) so the HUGE downside which draws two card for your opponent, doesnt really matter anymore. Also Spellstone 1 mana deal 6 damage. which isnt hard to activate thanks to the tons of armor gain cards.

And rogue needs to build that lifesteal weapon whole game which is trash by its own.

 Naturalize was used far before mechathun was born, as even the hearthstone wiki says "good in mill decks with cards like Coldlight Oracle". Forcing your opponent to draw is far better than you think. I don't even get what you're trying to argue anymore.

I'm talking about class identity, rogue is a class that as far as I know, had no class heal cards until they were added in an expansion. Since these cards will rotate out, Rogues class identity clearly is not healing. I'll give you an idea of class identity, druid. They have mana ramp in both their classic and basic set, so their class identity is clearly ramping.

But yes we can both agree that Spectral Cutlass sucks ass.

 do you even believe what you said about naturalize? good in mill druid. yeah sure. except mill druid sucked and still sucks. im beating them in wild daily.

milling cards is good right now because there are a lot of control combo decks. you can mill a lot of useful cards especially when you have unpassable taunt walls or mechatun.

 

anyway. i dont like kingsbane but there are lots of decks like this. if they dont nerf them too, i dont see any point nerfing bane.

 Yes, of course I believe it. I've seen the power of Hakkar, the Soulflayer. There are no other decks like Kingsbane, everything else can die or be silenced.

And Kingsbane can be milled. (Yes in Standard too)) Or Discarded (Warlock).