1- A meta in HS where you know what are you playing against and what cards will you see in the next turns only based on what you see on first turn will always be boring. Boring to play and to watch.
2- RNG in its purest form is great. Yogg-Saron, Hope's End can win you a game or totally backfire, for example. And it's one of the funniest cards ever printed. (If not the funniest.) Sneed's Old Shredder and Evolve Shamy can be another examples.
3. The real problem is the controlled RNG. Spiteful Summoner is the most clear card to talk about. If you only have 10 mana spells, the only RNG possible is if it is going to be a 12/12 or an 8/8 (plus the Wild ones and Hakkar, the Soulflayer starting tomorrow.) The discover cards also go here.
Yes, I know how frustrating is to lose against a randomly generated Pyroblast after you cleared the board, but I find more frustrating to lose against the same decks over and over.
The problem with RNG is that its compliments Loss aversion.
You feel twice as bad as losing against RNG than winning with it. Thus killing your enjoyment of the game.
I don’t. I actually feel better about it. “Aww, he just got lucky.”
Really? You have a very different outlook than I do. I find it tilting when I outplay someone and they build 3-5 turns of perfect answer zombeasts with Deathstalker Rexxar (bring him up a lot in these discussions; he's super problematic even though I love the card). Or when Deck of Wonders saves a tempo mage after my strategy would have otherwise won the game.
I feel much better when RNG isn't the main reason I lose a match (but admittedly it is thrilling and relieving when it saves me from an otherwise bad matchup).
Well, I play for fun and to collect cards. I’m not trying to get to top 100 legend in order to have a shot at a pro career or anything. I have a good-paying job already, and Hearthstone is 30 minutes of fun each day (more often than not against my children).
I feel you, and it's cool to talk to a fellow parent on here. I love collecting cards, but I think I might be a bit more invested in ladder, as I like to see how high I can climb with whatever time I have available to me each month and usually give at least 1-3 hours to Hearthstone every day or two (always after everyone is in bed so there are no interruptions!).
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Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
I'd rather lose, because one of my minions gets devolved into a doomsayer and destroyes the board, than to a Big Priest who coins out Barnes on Turn 3.
Both cases are based on probability, but you can guess which one is less fun imo.
I think a certain amount of RNG is actually quite entertaining (That's why I like HS more than chess...).
No need to hype it, though. But I'm pretty happy with the amount we got at the moment.
All card games are based on rng aka luck. Whether it be goldfish holdem or hearthstone. Even magic 15years ago before cellphones and tablets had rng involved. Am I going to draw 5 forests in a row? That's rng... welcome to the card game universe.
Other than Tic Tac Toe, those are skill-based. Why shouldn’t other games be the same way?
HS is a CARD game. Duh.
MTG has almost no RNG other than card draws, and it’s a card game.
But the RNG from card draw in Magic is much higher then in hearthstone, because you have lands in your deck and in addition to drawing the right cards (curving for exemple) you could draw too many lands or too less which gets even more rng based when you have different coulors, also the mulligan system is much more luck based because to mulligan is punished very hard and you can't Keep good cards like in hearthstone.
Worse because without rng this game wouldn't be anywhere near as popular, and card games without an active userbase fall by the wayside. Thanks to rng, everyone from the best player to the worst player gets that "I still have a chance" feeling even in very unfavorable match ups. That's a big part of why HS is so successful, it keeps you playing and not just giving up whenever you run into unfavorable games. RNG let's people win when they don't deserve it sure, but not having that swing favor would favor whales heavily, in order for a card game to be successful it has to have a way for new/poorer/less talented players to still have at least snowballs chance. RNG in HS has done a decent job of doing that, but they do take it to far in some instanceses.
I think a bit of RNG is good for the game. Ben Brode said something along the lines of: "RNG keeps the game fresh and exciting, so that every game isn't the same", and I agree for the most part. I personally really liked GvG as an expansion, but the amount of RNG in the following metas was pretty dumb at times. The outcome of cards like Unstable Portal and Piloted Shredder could be instantly game winning or losing and I don't think that's healthy for the game.
But I think Blizzard has taken good care of the RNG-problems by reducing the amount of 'broken' RNG in newer expansions, so to say, and by making the player able to manipulate the RNG is some instances.
Since it is a card game there will always be some amount of RNG like, what you draw is beyond your control (Juicy Psychmelon :))). 'The luck of the draw' is a saying for a reason. But that's good. It's makes it so that the game doesn't become stale and repetitive.
RNG in large is good for the game. Without RNG every match feels the same. That being said, there are kinds of RNG I don't like: RNG which is too polarizing (Yogg-Saron, Hope's End, Imp-losion) or RNG that affects the board state too early (Knife Juggler hitting your 2/1 instead of face). If I'm too triggered after losing a match over RNG, I just play a match on lichess.org. (I usually lose that too because I'm not very good at chess, but at least the world feels logical again)
Honestly? I think the game would be worse with the rng cards we have no suddenly not being rng-dependent, assuming that the effects were kept the same.
For example, if Rag read "At the end of your turn deal 8 damage to an enemy." (In other words not random).
Or, Cinderstorm. Battlecry; "Deal 5 damage to enemies (missiles chosen by the player)."
Or, Demonic Project. "Reveal the minions in your opponent's hand, choose one and transform it into a demon." Yu-Gi-Oh's Delinquent Duo reborn in HS.
Or, Dr. Boom DK. "Choose one of Dr. Boom's hero powers each turn."
The game would be much worse and way more busted without rng if you didn't just neuter a third of the cards in the game first.
In my opinion:
1- A meta in HS where you know what are you playing against and what cards will you see in the next turns only based on what you see on first turn will always be boring. Boring to play and to watch.
2- RNG in its purest form is great. Yogg-Saron, Hope's End can win you a game or totally backfire, for example. And it's one of the funniest cards ever printed. (If not the funniest.) Sneed's Old Shredder and Evolve Shamy can be another examples.
3. The real problem is the controlled RNG. Spiteful Summoner is the most clear card to talk about. If you only have 10 mana spells, the only RNG possible is if it is going to be a 12/12 or an 8/8 (plus the Wild ones and Hakkar, the Soulflayer starting tomorrow.) The discover cards also go here.
Yes, I know how frustrating is to lose against a randomly generated Pyroblast after you cleared the board, but I find more frustrating to lose against the same decks over and over.
One last note: Bring back the de-nerfed Yogg-Saron, Hope's End.
Always look on the random side of life.
I feel you, and it's cool to talk to a fellow parent on here. I love collecting cards, but I think I might be a bit more invested in ladder, as I like to see how high I can climb with whatever time I have available to me each month and usually give at least 1-3 hours to Hearthstone every day or two (always after everyone is in bed so there are no interruptions!).
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
I'd rather lose, because one of my minions gets devolved into a doomsayer and destroyes the board, than to a Big Priest who coins out Barnes on Turn 3.
Both cases are based on probability, but you can guess which one is less fun imo.
I think a certain amount of RNG is actually quite entertaining (That's why I like HS more than chess...).
No need to hype it, though. But I'm pretty happy with the amount we got at the moment.
Maybe that's just me.
All card games are based on rng aka luck. Whether it be goldfish holdem or hearthstone. Even magic 15years ago before cellphones and tablets had rng involved. Am I going to draw 5 forests in a row? That's rng... welcome to the card game universe.
But the RNG from card draw in Magic is much higher then in hearthstone, because you have lands in your deck and in addition to drawing the right cards (curving for exemple) you could draw too many lands or too less which gets even more rng based when you have different coulors, also the mulligan system is much more luck based because to mulligan is punished very hard and you can't Keep good cards like in hearthstone.
Worse because without rng this game wouldn't be anywhere near as popular, and card games without an active userbase fall by the wayside. Thanks to rng, everyone from the best player to the worst player gets that "I still have a chance" feeling even in very unfavorable match ups. That's a big part of why HS is so successful, it keeps you playing and not just giving up whenever you run into unfavorable games. RNG let's people win when they don't deserve it sure, but not having that swing favor would favor whales heavily, in order for a card game to be successful it has to have a way for new/poorer/less talented players to still have at least snowballs chance. RNG in HS has done a decent job of doing that, but they do take it to far in some instanceses.
I play both regurarly and this is just wrong. Mtg has a large amount of rng:
1)In many games you either drown in mana or you starve
2)Mulligan is way more regressive and punishing so you need good rng to draw a good starthand
3)matchups matter more, so meeting a counterdeck often means autoloss
Hearthstone on the other hand has more random card effects and active trading leads to a bigger snowball effect.
So in conclusion they are about on the same level in my opinion.
Then you probably love playing games that rely on luck then :P
I think a bit of RNG is good for the game. Ben Brode said something along the lines of: "RNG keeps the game fresh and exciting, so that every game isn't the same", and I agree for the most part. I personally really liked GvG as an expansion, but the amount of RNG in the following metas was pretty dumb at times. The outcome of cards like Unstable Portal and Piloted Shredder could be instantly game winning or losing and I don't think that's healthy for the game.
But I think Blizzard has taken good care of the RNG-problems by reducing the amount of 'broken' RNG in newer expansions, so to say, and by making the player able to manipulate the RNG is some instances.
Since it is a card game there will always be some amount of RNG like, what you draw is beyond your control (Juicy Psychmelon :))). 'The luck of the draw' is a saying for a reason. But that's good. It's makes it so that the game doesn't become stale and repetitive.
RNG in large is good for the game. Without RNG every match feels the same. That being said, there are kinds of RNG I don't like: RNG which is too polarizing (Yogg-Saron, Hope's End, Imp-losion) or RNG that affects the board state too early (Knife Juggler hitting your 2/1 instead of face). If I'm too triggered after losing a match over RNG, I just play a match on lichess.org. (I usually lose that too because I'm not very good at chess, but at least the world feels logical again)
I miss WoW TCG :(
Honestly? I think the game would be worse with the rng cards we have no suddenly not being rng-dependent, assuming that the effects were kept the same.
For example, if Rag read "At the end of your turn deal 8 damage to an enemy." (In other words not random).
Or, Cinderstorm. Battlecry; "Deal 5 damage to enemies (missiles chosen by the player)."
Or, Demonic Project. "Reveal the minions in your opponent's hand, choose one and transform it into a demon." Yu-Gi-Oh's Delinquent Duo reborn in HS.
Or, Dr. Boom DK. "Choose one of Dr. Boom's hero powers each turn."
The game would be much worse and way more busted without rng if you didn't just neuter a third of the cards in the game first.