i was thinking about Blizzard and Team 5. I got an idea: Probably, because of the departure of Brode and the other two, Team 5 is "alone" and confused. Maybe, they don't really know how to manage the game and the path to follow.
As you can see, they are speaking directly to us. Example:
"We are considering a nerf, but we want to see what players have to say". Naga -> Nerfed
Aviana -> Nerfed
I believe that they could (and should) fix their path and decide how to manage this game, because it seems that they don't know what they are doing. It's just a mess, they are creating chaos here and there. There isn't a fixed path, just random adjustement (sometime too late). They want to make happy a part of player, without lose the other part.. I understand them, but we can't blame for nerf everytime. Just fix the game.
if they had no idea what to do and just listened to the community then
a) they would have nerfed Psychmelon, which is what most people seemed to want (even though the Aviana nerf is much better overall)
b) nerf Giggling Inventor to 6-mana, which what most people were expecting
c) nerf way more things that don't actually need nerfing, but 80% of the community are even worse at balancing a card game than Blizzard itself.
Fact is, Team5 is obviously not that good at keeping the game balanced, which is why it takes so long for balance patches to come out, as they want to evaluate data.
Also consider that Team 5 has insight into the future of hearthstone, which means balance patches won't always make sense immediately. Remember Blade Flurry? Pretty sure Kingsbane would be all kinds of broken if that was still around.
Fact is that they can't just nerf things 1 month into an expansion (unless those things were present before the expansion) simply because it would mean that top tier decks could become useless just by removing one card (remember Even Paladin) which then means everyone who crafted these decks just lost a huge amount of dust (rip everyone who crafted DK Gul'dan for Cubelock because they thought it would get nerfed for sure)
Also, your idea just seems to be "fix the game, idk how, just do it". That's not how it works.
I feel the same ever since Ben Brode left the building. At least before they had a stance and they always sticked to it down the road.
With this latest balance patch they said that no nerfs were needed but since the community demanded one they nerfed destroyed a bunch of random cards just for the sake of making a balance patch. The comunity was outraged by the polarity in the meta but this patch doesn't address that in the slightest. It's like they're not even playing the game.
I feel the same ever since Ben Brode left the building. At least before they had a stance and they always sticked to it down the road.
With this latest balance patch they said that no nerfs were needed but since the community demanded one they nerfed destroyed a bunch of random cards just for the sake of making a balance patch. The comunity was outraged by the polarity in the meta but this patch doesn't address that in the slightest. It's like they're not even playing the game.
This is actually the worst part. They said nothing was wrong, then they were proven wrong by someone who provided quantitative data, who they basically brushed off and called insignificant, then they backpedaled on "nothing is wrong", but didn't actually fix the problem. They're completely tone-deaf.
I feel the same ever since Ben Brode left the building. At least before they had a stance and they always sticked to it down the road.
With this latest balance patch they said that no nerfs were needed but since the community demanded one they nerfed destroyed a bunch of random cards just for the sake of making a balance patch. The comunity was outraged by the polarity in the meta but this patch doesn't address that in the slightest. It's like they're not even playing the game.
This is actually the worst part. They said nothing was wrong, then they were proven wrong by someone who provided quantitative data, who they basically brushed off and called insignificant, then they backpedaled on "nothing is wrong", but didn't actually fix the problem. They're completely tone-deaf.
This set of nerfs has absolutely NOTHING to do with the VS article. When you grow up you will learn how companies really work.
They are always 3-4 expansions ahead so it will still be a very long time before we see anything that Ben and them weren't involved in and I can already hear people saying stupid things about the new team being incompetent during the first few weeks of the next expansion lol predictable angry community
a) they would have nerfed Psychmelon, which is what most people seemed to want (even though the Aviana nerf is much better overall)
b) nerf Giggling Inventor to 6-mana, which what most people were expecting
c) nerf way more things that don't actually need nerfing, but 80% of the community are even worse at balancing a card game than Blizzard itself.
Fact is, Team5 is obviously not that good at keeping the game balanced, which is why it takes so long for balance patches to come out, as they want to evaluate data.
Also consider that Team 5 has insight into the future of hearthstone, which means balance patches won't always make sense immediately. Remember Blade Flurry? Pretty sure Kingsbane would be all kinds of broken if that was still around.
I'll try to address your points in order but you seem conflicted so I will have to go jump around a bit. Let's start with your first one.
Juicy Psychmelon was the problem of the deck. It's a four mana card that is way above the power curve of what a four mana card should be. Why was this card printed? Why does a class with ramp need a four mana sprint? There is no reason for this card to exist as it does, it's power level is unquestionable. Yet they nerf Aviana despite the fact that Blizzard themselves has stated that the higher costing cards should feel powerful. AKA their entire justification for Ultimate Infestation. Here is an idea. How about instead of nerfing Aviana, you never print Kun and Psychmelon in the first place. If they have insight into the future, then why couldn't they see this would be unbalanced and break wild?
How do you know the community is wrong about what needs nerfed and what doesn't? Have you played the version of Hearthstone that many of us want to see and have asked for for years? You assume that since this random group of people were hired by Blizzard that they know better than the millions of people who spend more time playing the game than Blizzard does. Did you forget that for many on Team 5, this is the very first game they have ever worked on? The fact of the matter is more should have been nerfed. Player discontent is at an all time high and you even said it yourself, Blizzard is obviously not good at keeping the game balanced.
Blade Flurry wasn't nerfed because of Kinsbane and if it was, why didn't they wait until Kingsbane was about to release? Kingsbane at the end of the day is a horribly designed card that players can't interact with and yet you claim Blizzard sacrificed one of rogue's best board clears (INTERACTION!) that was both flavorful and unique in design for a card that many players simply hate. They also could have just removed the face damage on Flurry. (Or you know, they could have just made Kingsbane a card people could interact with and added text that if it was removed by weapon removal, it would not shuffle back into the deck. Only in Magic would you find a line of text so interactive and thoughtful apparently. Blizzard must think Hearthstone players are just too stupid to understand all that text or maybe they wouldn't want to play something that is reasonably balanced.) Why was it necessary to obliterate the Flurry by increasing it's mana cost as well when it already requires paying for a weapon, paying for weapon buff, drawing the buffs, putting buffs into your deck and etc. It was nerfed too hard and for no reason. Removing face damage was enough. We are back at Juicy Psychmelon territory. Why make the problem? If Blizzard is full of insight and knows better than it's player base, why do the continue to print problematic interactions knowing damn well that the players will have to suffer through them because Hearthstone lacks any way to ban problematic cards?
Here is an idea Blizzard. When a card has a problematic interaction, you give it a line of text that works as either a drawback to said interaction or one that allows the opponent to respond. For example. "Whenever Kun enters play, your opponent has the opportunity to play a spell. After the opponent plays a spell or ends their turn, Kun the Forgotten King's Battlecry resolves." For Juicy Psychmelon, "Discard your hand and set your mana to 6. Draw a 7, 8, 9 and 10 cost card." That one line of text would have not only balanced Psychmelon but made it flavorful as well. 6,7,8,9,10.
That is how you balance a fucking game folks. That is interactive game design.
a) they would have nerfed Psychmelon, which is what most people seemed to want (even though the Aviana nerf is much better overall)
b) nerf Giggling Inventor to 6-mana, which what most people were expecting
c) nerf way more things that don't actually need nerfing, but 80% of the community are even worse at balancing a card game than Blizzard itself.
Fact is, Team5 is obviously not that good at keeping the game balanced, which is why it takes so long for balance patches to come out, as they want to evaluate data.
Also consider that Team 5 has insight into the future of hearthstone, which means balance patches won't always make sense immediately. Remember Blade Flurry? Pretty sure Kingsbane would be all kinds of broken if that was still around.
I'll try to address your points in order but you seem conflicted so I will have to go jump around a bit. Let's start with your first one.
Juicy Psychmelon was the problem of the deck. It's a four mana card that is way above the power curve of what a four mana card should be. Why was this card printed? Why does a class with ramp need a four mana sprint? There is no reason for this card to exist as it does, it's power level is unquestionable. Yet they nerf Aviana despite the fact that Blizzard themselves has stated that the higher costing cards should feel powerful. AKA their entire justification for Ultimate Infestation. Here is an idea. How about instead of nerfing Aviana, you never print Kun and Psychmelon in the first place. If they have insight into the future, then why couldn't they see this would be unbalanced and break wild?
How do you know the community is wrong about what needs nerfed and what doesn't? Have you played the version of Hearthstone that many of us want to see and have asked for for years? You assume that since this random group of people were hired by Blizzard that they know better than the millions of people who spend more time playing the game than Blizzard does. Did you forget that for many on Team 5, this is the very first game they have ever worked on? The fact of the matter is more should have been nerfed. Player discontent is at an all time high and you even said it yourself, Blizzard is obviously not good at keeping the game balanced.
Blade Flurry wasn't nerfed because of Kinsbane and if it was, why didn't they wait until Kingsbane was about to release? Kingsbane at the end of the day is a horribly designed card that players can't interact with and yet you claim Blizzard sacrificed one of rogue's best board clears (INTERACTION!) that was both flavorful and unique in design for a card that many players simply hate. They also could have just removed the face damage on Flurry. (Or you know, they could have just made Kingsbane a card people could interact with and added text that if it was removed by weapon removal, it would not shuffle back into the deck. Only in Magic would you find a line of text so interactive and thoughtful apparently. Blizzard must think Hearthstone players are just too stupid to understand all that text or maybe they wouldn't want to play something that is reasonably balanced.) Why was it necessary to obliterate the Flurry by increasing it's mana cost as well when it already requires paying for a weapon, paying for weapon buff, drawing the buffs, putting buffs into your deck and etc. It was nerfed too hard and for no reason. Removing face damage was enough. We are back at Juicy Psychmelon territory. Why make the problem? If Blizzard is full of insight and knows better than it's player base, why do the continue to print problematic interactions knowing damn well that the players will have to suffer through them because Hearthstone lacks any way to ban problematic cards?
Here is an idea Blizzard. When a card has a problematic interaction, you give it a line of text that works as either a drawback to said interaction or one that allows the opponent to respond. For example. "Whenever Kun enters play, your opponent has the opportunity to play a spell. After the opponent plays a spell or ends their turn, Kun the Forgotten King's Battlecry resolves." For Juicy Psychmelon, "Discard your hand and set your mana to 6. Draw a 7, 8, 9 and 10 cost card." That one line of text would have not only balanced Psychmelon but made it flavorful as well. 6,7,8,9,10.
That is how you balance a fucking game folks. That is interactive game design.
thank you for the flurry part. exactly my thoughts
if they had no idea what to do and just listened to the community then
a) they would have nerfed Psychmelon, which is what most people seemed to want (even though the Aviana nerf is much better overall)
b) nerf Giggling Inventor to 6-mana, which what most people were expecting
c) nerf way more things that don't actually need nerfing, but 80% of the community are even worse at balancing a card game than Blizzard itself.
Fact is, Team5 is obviously not that good at keeping the game balanced, which is why it takes so long for balance patches to come out, as they want to evaluate data.
Also consider that Team 5 has insight into the future of hearthstone, which means balance patches won't always make sense immediately. Remember Blade Flurry? Pretty sure Kingsbane would be all kinds of broken if that was still around.
Fact is that they can't just nerf things 1 month into an expansion (unless those things were present before the expansion) simply because it would mean that top tier decks could become useless just by removing one card (remember Even Paladin) which then means everyone who crafted these decks just lost a huge amount of dust (rip everyone who crafted DK Gul'dan for Cubelock because they thought it would get nerfed for sure)
Also, your idea just seems to be "fix the game, idk how, just do it". That's not how it works.
They are always 3-4 expansions ahead so it will still be a very long time before we see anything that Ben and them weren't involved in and I can already hear people saying stupid things about the new team being incompetent during the first few weeks of the next expansion lol predictable angry community
I'm speaking about nerfs and balance, they are slow and incompetent in balancing the game.
There's some selective memory going on here. Team 5 nerfs have almost always felt tone deaf. If you didn't know Ben Brode left, you wouldn't think anything was different.
There's some selective memory going on here. Team 5 nerfs have almost always felt tone deaf. If you didn't know Ben Brode left, you wouldn't think anything was different.
I remember when they nerfed Raza, Patches and the corridor creeper. A fine nerf (a bit too late for patches). But this nerf is almost pointless (60%). Where is the druid nerf?
And no, i'm not salty. I literally have 90% winrate against druid.
They are always 3-4 expansions ahead so it will still be a very long time before we see anything that Ben and them weren't involved in and I can already hear people saying stupid things about the new team being incompetent during the first few weeks of the next expansion lol predictable angry community
I'm speaking about nerfs and balance, they are slow and incompetent in balancing the game.
No reason to jump everytime some spoiled 8 year old cries nerf.
They are always 3-4 expansions ahead so it will still be a very long time before we see anything that Ben and them weren't involved in and I can already hear people saying stupid things about the new team being incompetent during the first few weeks of the next expansion lol predictable angry community
I'm speaking about nerfs and balance, they are slow and incompetent in balancing the game.
No reason to jump everytime some spoiled 8 year old cries nerf.
Probably you aren't understand: When Team 5 nerfs things, they nerf them wrong.
They destroyed Giggling Inventor. They destroyed (almost) cubelock in std They destoryed Call to arms and even paladin with it They destroyed almost bonemare
This isn't a balance patch. It's just about destroying cards.
They are not balancing the game, they are adding mana cost. Why not revisitizing the entire effects/stats/mana cost? Giggling -> summon 1/2 with taunt and DS, maybe at cost 4. This is balanced. Not cost 7 summon 3 cost 2.
Also, i play a totally different deck so i don't really care, but this is just insane. They are a very young company (team 5), ok, but they should learn from their mistakes.
I agree. When the Brode left they seemed to lose all direction. Even though these last two expansions would have been under his leadership. Weird decisions like "we aren't going to nerf" then two weeks later "we're gonna nerf a card (mana worm) nobody's complaining about". They NEED a strong leader at the helm. They don't seem to have that right now. I don't even know WHO is running the ship since the Brode left!?
I believe that they could (and should) fix their path and decide how to manage this game, because it seems that they don't know what they are doing. It's just a mess, they are creating chaos here and there. There isn't a fixed path, just random adjustement (sometime too late). They want to make happy a part of player, without lose the other part.. I understand them, but we can't blame for nerf everytime. Just fix the game.
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your post here, but I have some questions:
What do you mean when you say they should fix their path? What path?
They are already managing the game and have decided how to do that. What makes you believe you know otherwise to think they are not doing so? (Surely the very fact that they are making changes proves they have at least some for of deliberation)
Why do you think the adjustments are random when they have spoken at length about which cards they were considering nerfing and why? Regardless of whether we think they are good nerfs, this still proves it isnt random.
I often see people use phrases like "Just fix the game!", but they are seldom ever supported with viable and realistic thought out examples of how they expect that to happen.
Why do you think it is broken?
What evidence supports this?
What is your suggestion on how to fix it?
What makes you think your suggestions are in any way balanced and likely to succeed rather than cause the game to fail further?
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Hi Folks,
i was thinking about Blizzard and Team 5.
I got an idea:
Probably, because of the departure of Brode and the other two, Team 5 is "alone" and confused.
Maybe, they don't really know how to manage the game and the path to follow.
As you can see, they are speaking directly to us.
Example:
I believe that they could (and should) fix their path and decide how to manage this game, because it seems that they don't know what they are doing. It's just a mess, they are creating chaos here and there. There isn't a fixed path, just random adjustement (sometime too late). They want to make happy a part of player, without lose the other part.. I understand them, but we can't blame for nerf everytime. Just fix the game.
What do you think?
Leper Gnome
if they had no idea what to do and just listened to the community then
a) they would have nerfed Psychmelon, which is what most people seemed to want (even though the Aviana nerf is much better overall)
b) nerf Giggling Inventor to 6-mana, which what most people were expecting
c) nerf way more things that don't actually need nerfing, but 80% of the community are even worse at balancing a card game than Blizzard itself.
Fact is, Team5 is obviously not that good at keeping the game balanced, which is why it takes so long for balance patches to come out, as they want to evaluate data.
Also consider that Team 5 has insight into the future of hearthstone, which means balance patches won't always make sense immediately. Remember Blade Flurry? Pretty sure Kingsbane would be all kinds of broken if that was still around.
Fact is that they can't just nerf things 1 month into an expansion (unless those things were present before the expansion) simply because it would mean that top tier decks could become useless just by removing one card (remember Even Paladin) which then means everyone who crafted these decks just lost a huge amount of dust (rip everyone who crafted DK Gul'dan for Cubelock because they thought it would get nerfed for sure)
Also, your idea just seems to be "fix the game, idk how, just do it". That's not how it works.
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
I think the game is fine.
i think OP can’t get past Rank 25.
I feel the same ever since Ben Brode left the building. At least before they had a stance and they always sticked to it down the road.
With this latest balance patch they said that no nerfs were needed but since the community demanded one they
nerfeddestroyed a bunch of random cards just for the sake of making a balance patch. The comunity was outraged by the polarity in the meta but this patch doesn't address that in the slightest. It's like they're not even playing the game.They are doing 3 expansions at a time, Brode had his influence at least for one more expansion..
Worked on WW, BP, Nxt exp and left after WW.
This is actually the worst part. They said nothing was wrong, then they were proven wrong by someone who provided quantitative data, who they basically brushed off and called insignificant, then they backpedaled on "nothing is wrong", but didn't actually fix the problem. They're completely tone-deaf.
This set of nerfs has absolutely NOTHING to do with the VS article. When you grow up you will learn how companies really work.
Oh, they are confused as Butters has been in one of those episodes. I bet they are :DDD
They are always 3-4 expansions ahead so it will still be a very long time before we see anything that Ben and them weren't involved in and I can already hear people saying stupid things about the new team being incompetent during the first few weeks of the next expansion lol predictable angry community
I'll try to address your points in order but you seem conflicted so I will have to go jump around a bit. Let's start with your first one.
Juicy Psychmelon was the problem of the deck. It's a four mana card that is way above the power curve of what a four mana card should be. Why was this card printed? Why does a class with ramp need a four mana sprint? There is no reason for this card to exist as it does, it's power level is unquestionable. Yet they nerf Aviana despite the fact that Blizzard themselves has stated that the higher costing cards should feel powerful. AKA their entire justification for Ultimate Infestation. Here is an idea. How about instead of nerfing Aviana, you never print Kun and Psychmelon in the first place. If they have insight into the future, then why couldn't they see this would be unbalanced and break wild?
How do you know the community is wrong about what needs nerfed and what doesn't? Have you played the version of Hearthstone that many of us want to see and have asked for for years? You assume that since this random group of people were hired by Blizzard that they know better than the millions of people who spend more time playing the game than Blizzard does. Did you forget that for many on Team 5, this is the very first game they have ever worked on? The fact of the matter is more should have been nerfed. Player discontent is at an all time high and you even said it yourself, Blizzard is obviously not good at keeping the game balanced.
Blade Flurry wasn't nerfed because of Kinsbane and if it was, why didn't they wait until Kingsbane was about to release? Kingsbane at the end of the day is a horribly designed card that players can't interact with and yet you claim Blizzard sacrificed one of rogue's best board clears (INTERACTION!) that was both flavorful and unique in design for a card that many players simply hate. They also could have just removed the face damage on Flurry. (Or you know, they could have just made Kingsbane a card people could interact with and added text that if it was removed by weapon removal, it would not shuffle back into the deck. Only in Magic would you find a line of text so interactive and thoughtful apparently. Blizzard must think Hearthstone players are just too stupid to understand all that text or maybe they wouldn't want to play something that is reasonably balanced.) Why was it necessary to obliterate the Flurry by increasing it's mana cost as well when it already requires paying for a weapon, paying for weapon buff, drawing the buffs, putting buffs into your deck and etc. It was nerfed too hard and for no reason. Removing face damage was enough. We are back at Juicy Psychmelon territory. Why make the problem? If Blizzard is full of insight and knows better than it's player base, why do the continue to print problematic interactions knowing damn well that the players will have to suffer through them because Hearthstone lacks any way to ban problematic cards?
Here is an idea Blizzard. When a card has a problematic interaction, you give it a line of text that works as either a drawback to said interaction or one that allows the opponent to respond. For example. "Whenever Kun enters play, your opponent has the opportunity to play a spell. After the opponent plays a spell or ends their turn, Kun the Forgotten King's Battlecry resolves." For Juicy Psychmelon, "Discard your hand and set your mana to 6. Draw a 7, 8, 9 and 10 cost card." That one line of text would have not only balanced Psychmelon but made it flavorful as well. 6,7,8,9,10.
That is how you balance a fucking game folks. That is interactive game design.
thank you for the flurry part. exactly my thoughts
I know how Team5 can fix the game
Leper Gnome
Actually, rank 10
Leper Gnome
I'm speaking about nerfs and balance, they are slow and incompetent in balancing the game.
Leper Gnome
There's some selective memory going on here. Team 5 nerfs have almost always felt tone deaf. If you didn't know Ben Brode left, you wouldn't think anything was different.
I remember when they nerfed Raza, Patches and the corridor creeper.
A fine nerf (a bit too late for patches).
But this nerf is almost pointless (60%).
Where is the druid nerf?
And no, i'm not salty. I literally have 90% winrate against druid.
Leper Gnome
No reason to jump everytime some spoiled 8 year old cries nerf.
Probably you aren't understand:
When Team 5 nerfs things, they nerf them wrong.
They destroyed Giggling Inventor.
They destroyed (almost) cubelock in std
They destoryed Call to arms and even paladin with it
They destroyed almost bonemare
This isn't a balance patch.
It's just about destroying cards.
They are not balancing the game, they are adding mana cost.
Why not revisitizing the entire effects/stats/mana cost?
Giggling -> summon 1/2 with taunt and DS, maybe at cost 4. This is balanced.
Not cost 7 summon 3 cost 2.
Also, i play a totally different deck so i don't really care, but this is just insane.
They are a very young company (team 5), ok, but they should learn from their mistakes.
Leper Gnome
I agree. When the Brode left they seemed to lose all direction. Even though these last two expansions would have been under his leadership. Weird decisions like "we aren't going to nerf" then two weeks later "we're gonna nerf a card (mana worm) nobody's complaining about". They NEED a strong leader at the helm. They don't seem to have that right now. I don't even know WHO is running the ship since the Brode left!?
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your post here, but I have some questions: