I don't see how nerfing 2 cards (in standard, aviana's nerf is exactly what wild needed) will change the issue with polarizing meta which is the reason why people started complaining, it's not about "change for the sake of change" but more about... hitting the polarizing decks..
I know the inventor nerf is mainly aimed toward quest rogue but why not directly nerf it or outright rework it? and make inventor more reasonable instead of just deleting the card cause it's totally broken in one deck, while strong (but not broken) in others.
they hit quests rogue and it's main counter in tempo mage.. but what about the third player on the field which is less affected by inventor odd warrior... what about druid's insane arsenal of cheap removal? what about odd rogue?
Also QR will still beat control anyway since it didn't need giggling to win against control ANYWAY.... so those nerfs just deleted tempo mages from the equations making the current state of aggro>QR>odd warrior>aggro polarizing matchups not change at all.
We saw the results of a merciful balance change before.. or nerfing all across the field BUT the most powerful deck(s)
for example:
in KAC they nerfed all decks but cubelock and paladin -> in the meta before WW and in WW both paladin and cubelock were rampant with no real counters.
in karazhan they nerfed ALL the other classes hard, and while nerfing 2 shaman cards, they didn't address the problematic shaman cards.. we had a meta with only one deck at 56% win rate the second deck after that was 52%, then mean street came out and.. well.. shaman was still the most busted class in the game, they only finally gone with a decent balance change 6 months later.
All in all I think that with the nerf to a big quest rogue counter and no direct nerf to the deck we will see quest rogue rise even more and the meta could be even more polarizing..
I mean clearly they think that by taking quest rogue and agg mage out of the lineup, something else is going to show up that will handle druid well. That is the only explanation, despite what the "druidstone" memers will tell you.
Having said that, I wouldn't pretend to know what they have in mind. Furthermore, I'm not certain Quest Rogue is squashed just yet. That deck is a hardy little cockroach, and I'm not convinced it's gone till the damn thing rotates.
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blizz overestimates how important rotations are, and since they realize druid's gonna be absolutely dead with the DK and UI and twig rotating out in like half a year theyre gonna do what they did with patches and absolutely ignore everybody and nerf more classic cards. plus, blizz literally never changes what a card does if changing the mana cost is reasonable so they will almost never rework cards if they can just up the cost instead.
The only reason Quest Rogue came back was because of Giggling Inventor. A deck that loses its best card isn't going to become stronger, even when one of its counters is heavily nerfed too.
But the main reason Giggling was nerfed was because its played in almost every deck. Because it was so universal, it required techs like Mossy Horror and Blood Knight, making games even more similar.
I think that thanks to the nerfs we're going to see more of an aggro/control meta, which sounds a lot better to me.
I think you're overreacting. Like 90% of hearthpwn right now. The addressed cards were destined to be nerfed but you must understand Blizzard can't nerf every card people find slightly problematic.
The Nerf to Giggles is huge. Not being able to get 4 hits worth of taunts on turn 5 will have a lot of decks run over by very aggressive strategies. This nerf go in line with Blizzard previous observation of the meta (that it didn't need much change). It is true that this do not reduce the high levels of polarization of the ladder, but realistically even if they nerfed half the current standard pool the polarized match-ups will still be there. Mana Wyrm's sin was being the best 1-drop of a class while also being part of the evergreen set of cards. No other 1-drop would be able to compete, unless they make it really overpowered.
I think you're overreacting. Like 90% of hearthpwn right now. The addressed cards were destined to be nerfed but you must understand Blizzard can't nerf every card people find slightly problematic.
The problem is not "a slightly" bad meta it's the most polarizing meta based on matchups since HS release (at least according to vicious syndicate) the ones that created such matchups are the trio of quest rogue, odd warrior and aggro and I just feel like those issues weren't adressed..
the thing is that giggling isn't totally dead too, you can still make a pretty big wall on turn 7 (similar to druid's DK but neutral..
anyway my main concern is that most decks are currently really similar to WW decks but with giggling and removing giggling.. just means TBP will have little impact on the meta.. I hope we will witness new decks that struggled with giggling before..
The Nerf to Giggles is huge. Not being able to get 4 hits worth of taunts on turn 5 will have a lot of decks run over by very aggressive strategies. This nerf go in line with Blizzard previous observation of the meta (that it didn't need much change). It is true that this do not reduce the high levels of polarization of the ladder, but realistically even if they nerfed half the current standard pool the polarized match-ups will still be there. Mana Wyrm's sin was being the best 1-drop of a class while also being part of the evergreen set of cards. No other 1-drop would be able to compete, unless they make it really overpowered.
Not huge? Spreading plague cost less and that card is way better. Blizzard has proven they have no idea what theyre doing.
The only reason Quest Rogue came back was because of Giggling Inventor. A deck that loses its best card isn't going to become stronger, even when one of its counters is heavily nerfed too.
But the main reason Giggling was nerfed was because its played in almost every deck. Because it was so universal, it required techs like Mossy Horror and Blood Knight, making games even more similar.
I think that thanks to the nerfs we're going to see more of an aggro/control meta, which sounds a lot better to me.
First of all, QR did NOT make a comeback in TBD. It was never gone. Even after the 2nd nerf Tarei used it to win a major championship.
And GI is not the best card in its current iteration. That accolade belongs to Sonya. Look at the numbers from HSReplay.
The Nerf to Giggles is huge. Not being able to get 4 hits worth of taunts on turn 5 will have a lot of decks run over by very aggressive strategies. This nerf go in line with Blizzard previous observation of the meta (that it didn't need much change). It is true that this do not reduce the high levels of polarization of the ladder, but realistically even if they nerfed half the current standard pool the polarized match-ups will still be there. Mana Wyrm's sin was being the best 1-drop of a class while also being part of the evergreen set of cards. No other 1-drop would be able to compete, unless they make it really overpowered.
Not huge? Spreading plague cost less and that card is way better. Blizzard has proven they have no idea what theyre doing.
Comparing a neutral card with a class card. Doing well over there mate.
I genuinely do not understand how anyone could decide on a set of nerfs that leave Druid completely untouched. Bizarre.
My theory is that Druid represents a huge market share from the Jade days. They seem to have a massive candle lit for the class. It used to be Preist, but well, Priest is in the dumpster now.
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Spreading Plague isn't all that great in a lot of cases. In fact, Giggling Inventor is WHY SP was so good this expansion. Against control decks, plague is usually two 2-mana minions for 6 mana. Even prior to these nerfs, druid decks often have to drop it for one 1/5 just to get a card out of their hand. With GI being played less, SP will be less problematic against everything but aggro.
The dev teams has no idea what they are doing, that much is clear. They cant solve the most obvious problems, instead they either annihilate a card or nerf a classic card thats been op for 4 years. I'm losing my patience in this game
The only reason Quest Rogue came back was because of Giggling Inventor. A deck that loses its best card isn't going to become stronger, even when one of its counters is heavily nerfed too.
But the main reason Giggling was nerfed was because its played in almost every deck. Because it was so universal, it required techs like Mossy Horror and Blood Knight, making games even more similar.
I think that thanks to the nerfs we're going to see more of an aggro/control meta, which sounds a lot better to me.
First of all, QR did NOT make a comeback in TBD. It was never gone. Even after the 2nd nerf Tarei used it to win a major championship.
And GI is not the best card in its current iteration. That accolade belongs to Sonya. Look at the numbers from HSReplay.
I'm talking about ladder. Almost no one cares about tournament meta. Even if Quest Rogue was always good and GI was the best card in it, my point still stands.
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Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
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I don't see how nerfing 2 cards (in standard, aviana's nerf is exactly what wild needed) will change the issue with polarizing meta which is the reason why people started complaining, it's not about "change for the sake of change" but more about... hitting the polarizing decks..
I know the inventor nerf is mainly aimed toward quest rogue but why not directly nerf it or outright rework it? and make inventor more reasonable instead of just deleting the card cause it's totally broken in one deck, while strong (but not broken) in others.
they hit quests rogue and it's main counter in tempo mage.. but what about the third player on the field which is less affected by inventor odd warrior... what about druid's insane arsenal of cheap removal? what about odd rogue?
Also QR will still beat control anyway since it didn't need giggling to win against control ANYWAY.... so those nerfs just deleted tempo mages from the equations making the current state of aggro>QR>odd warrior>aggro polarizing matchups not change at all.
We saw the results of a merciful balance change before.. or nerfing all across the field BUT the most powerful deck(s)
for example:
in KAC they nerfed all decks but cubelock and paladin -> in the meta before WW and in WW both paladin and cubelock were rampant with no real counters.
in karazhan they nerfed ALL the other classes hard, and while nerfing 2 shaman cards, they didn't address the problematic shaman cards.. we had a meta with only one deck at 56% win rate the second deck after that was 52%, then mean street came out and.. well.. shaman was still the most busted class in the game, they only finally gone with a decent balance change 6 months later.
All in all I think that with the nerf to a big quest rogue counter and no direct nerf to the deck we will see quest rogue rise even more and the meta could be even more polarizing..
What do you think?
I tend to agree. I don’t think QR is dead. Odd Warrior will still be a thing.
TBD Meta = TWW Meta - Aggro Mage
I mean clearly they think that by taking quest rogue and agg mage out of the lineup, something else is going to show up that will handle druid well. That is the only explanation, despite what the "druidstone" memers will tell you.
Having said that, I wouldn't pretend to know what they have in mind. Furthermore, I'm not certain Quest Rogue is squashed just yet. That deck is a hardy little cockroach, and I'm not convinced it's gone till the damn thing rotates.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
blizz overestimates how important rotations are, and since they realize druid's gonna be absolutely dead with the DK and UI and twig rotating out in like half a year theyre gonna do what they did with patches and absolutely ignore everybody and nerf more classic cards. plus, blizz literally never changes what a card does if changing the mana cost is reasonable so they will almost never rework cards if they can just up the cost instead.
That's Incredible!
The only reason Quest Rogue came back was because of Giggling Inventor. A deck that loses its best card isn't going to become stronger, even when one of its counters is heavily nerfed too.
But the main reason Giggling was nerfed was because its played in almost every deck. Because it was so universal, it required techs like Mossy Horror and Blood Knight, making games even more similar.
I think that thanks to the nerfs we're going to see more of an aggro/control meta, which sounds a lot better to me.
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
I think you're overreacting. Like 90% of hearthpwn right now. The addressed cards were destined to be nerfed but you must understand Blizzard can't nerf every card people find slightly problematic.
The Nerf to Giggles is huge. Not being able to get 4 hits worth of taunts on turn 5 will have a lot of decks run over by very aggressive strategies. This nerf go in line with Blizzard previous observation of the meta (that it didn't need much change). It is true that this do not reduce the high levels of polarization of the ladder, but realistically even if they nerfed half the current standard pool the polarized match-ups will still be there. Mana Wyrm's sin was being the best 1-drop of a class while also being part of the evergreen set of cards. No other 1-drop would be able to compete, unless they make it really overpowered.
The problem is not "a slightly" bad meta it's the most polarizing meta based on matchups since HS release (at least according to vicious syndicate) the ones that created such matchups are the trio of quest rogue, odd warrior and aggro and I just feel like those issues weren't adressed..
the thing is that giggling isn't totally dead too, you can still make a pretty big wall on turn 7 (similar to druid's DK but neutral..
anyway my main concern is that most decks are currently really similar to WW decks but with giggling and removing giggling.. just means TBP will have little impact on the meta.. I hope we will witness new decks that struggled with giggling before..
.
Not huge? Spreading plague cost less and that card is way better. Blizzard has proven they have no idea what theyre doing.
First of all, QR did NOT make a comeback in TBD. It was never gone. Even after the 2nd nerf Tarei used it to win a major championship.
And GI is not the best card in its current iteration. That accolade belongs to Sonya. Look at the numbers from HSReplay.
I genuinely do not understand how anyone could decide on a set of nerfs that leave Druid completely untouched. Bizarre.
my thoughts exactly, same for most I think.
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.
100% my thoughts too *confused*
Let's nerf giggling to hurt Quest rogue's winrate by .5%. Also let's nerf tempo mage, quest rogue's hardest counter to increase their winrates.
Comparing a neutral card with a class card. Doing well over there mate.
My theory is that Druid represents a huge market share from the Jade days. They seem to have a massive candle lit for the class. It used to be Preist, but well, Priest is in the dumpster now.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Spreading Plague isn't all that great in a lot of cases. In fact, Giggling Inventor is WHY SP was so good this expansion. Against control decks, plague is usually two 2-mana minions for 6 mana. Even prior to these nerfs, druid decks often have to drop it for one 1/5 just to get a card out of their hand. With GI being played less, SP will be less problematic against everything but aggro.
The dev teams has no idea what they are doing, that much is clear. They cant solve the most obvious problems, instead they either annihilate a card or nerf a classic card thats been op for 4 years. I'm losing my patience in this game
I'm talking about ladder. Almost no one cares about tournament meta. Even if Quest Rogue was always good and GI was the best card in it, my point still stands.
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP