No card game is perfect, and I definitely think MtG is the better game in terms of design and interaction. I played MTGA a little last night, and it was a pretty good experience. One thing I'll say is largely in Hearthstone's favor though is the UI. It's simplicity and clean aesthetic make navigation really easy, and the bright colors are just pleasant.
Its a big thing, too. Right now, MTG:A is not very streamable. Its not fun to watch, especially if you aren't a MtG vet.
Can we change the forum titles of all panicking drama queens to Doomsayer so that we don't forget who they were in a couple of months when everyone is back playing Hearthstone again because Magic and Artifact are both secretly pay to win and really really really boring.
don't let that Billie_Lurk guy hear you saying that, you'll get called a fanboy or w/e insult he fancies using on that day, I'm sure you've seen his comments around he does nothing but complain about hearthstone and try and promote artifact, anyone that disagrees with him gets abuse thrown at them. lol
Don't worry about people like that, they're just insecure about their decisions. You don't see me on Artifactpwn shouting at people about HS because I am not insecure about it.
No card game is perfect, and I definitely think MtG is the better game in terms of design and interaction. I played MTGA a little last night, and it was a pretty good experience. One thing I'll say is largely in Hearthstone's favor though is the UI. It's simplicity and clean aesthetic make navigation really easy, and the bright colors are just pleasant.
Its a big thing, too. Right now, MTG:A is not very streamable. Its not fun to watch, especially if you aren't a MtG vet.
Part of it is simply not knowing the rules and what all the cards do - most likely streamers aren't going to explain every card and every rule whenever they stream. Hearthstone was probably the same at first - it's not because Magic is a worse game to stream.
Can we change the forum titles of all panicking drama queens to Doomsayer so that we don't forget who they were in a couple of months when everyone is back playing Hearthstone again because Magic and Artifact are both secretly pay to win and really really really boring.
don't let that Billie_Lurk guy hear you saying that, you'll get called a fanboy or w/e insult he fancies using on that day, I'm sure you've seen his comments around he does nothing but complain about hearthstone and try and promote artifact, anyone that disagrees with him gets abuse thrown at them. lol
Don't worry about people like that, they're just insecure about their decisions. You don't see me on Artifactpwn shouting at people about HS because I am not insecure about it.
yup exactly, he's been added to my ignored users list now anyways, aint got time for people like that.
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Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.
Part of it is simply not knowing the rules and what all the cards do - most likely streamers aren't going to explain every card and every rule whenever they stream. Hearthstone was probably the same at first - it's not because Magic is a worse game to stream.
It is though. Part of the benefit to HS being a more simple game is that it makes for clearer viewing, and is therefore more accessible. You don't need a very deep understanding of HS to get the gist of what's going on. There isn't that much for a streamer to explain.
As a much more involved game - there is a ton more happening each turn in something like Magic. And since a lot of these things (at least right now) aren't accompanied by fun UI that signifies it for the viewers, it isn't as accessible. It's understandable that a streamer doesn't want to explain everything, because there's a lot to explain. But it does make it worse for viewers.
I think this is also part of the reason Gwent fell by the wayside.
I ve been playing MTG since my highschool years, the card game is great, but I ve checked out any MTG virtual game and they all suck when played via online matchups.
MTG is too complex in its game architecture, due it cannot be transformed into a virtual game easily. In most situations, if one player takes an action, the other player can interfer. In a card game, that works, but in any MTG video game, a player has to be asked by the game itself if he wants to perform such action. The result is an extremly slow pacing. Don
Well, MTG would have to be strongly simplified before it could be made into a game as fluidly running as hearthstone does. Plainswalker was a great game but took ages when played online.
So overall, I think if Blizzard "would" indeed loose their fanbase, it would not be because of the competition by Wizzards of the Coast, but by their loot box system that might either scare new players away from joining hearthstone universe, or let existing players quit since surviving in the META does require more and more expensive cards.
Personally i think either the paying system and the consistency of META decks are fair, but i ve heard otherwise from a bunch of players,
1. MTG is too complex in its game architecture, due it cannot be transformed into a virtual game easily. In most situations, if one player takes an action, the other player can interfer. In a card game, that works, but in any MTG video game, a player has to be asked by the game itself if he wants to perform such action. The result is an extremly slow pacing. Don
Well, MTG would have to be strongly simplified before it could be made into a game as fluidly running as hearthstone does. Plainswalker was a great game but took ages when played online.
2. So overall, I think if Blizzard "would" indeed loose their fanbase, it would not be because of the competition by Wizzards of the Coast, but by their loot box system that might either scare new players away from joining hearthstone universe, or let existing players quit since surviving in the META does require more and more expensive cards.
Personally i think either the paying system and the consistency of META decks are fair, but i ve heard otherwise from a bunch of players,
I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. I've added numbers so I can address each point separately.
1. After playing last night, I did not find it to be "too complex" to be a digital game. Even with the ability to make plays on my opponent's turn, I don't recall a turn taking longer than the allowed HS turn. It might be slower on average, but the complexity doesn't make it unable to be properly ported to the digital realm. Once you get used to the gameflow and understand the rules, it goes at a good pace.
2. Hearthstone almost certainly won't lose a significant portion of their playerbase to another game. What is more likely to happen is some of those players play Artifact, some play MTG:A, some play Gwent....they all still play Hearthstone too. As long as new expansions are released and there is money in the tournament scene, it almost certainly will retain players who are too far invested to quit.
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
. As long as new expansions are released and there is money in the tournament scene, it almost certainly will retain players who are too far invested to quit.
This is a good point and one that people really seem to ignore. You can play more than one game. It's not a one or the other proposition.
Streamers can play more then one game. Right now Hearthstone is very stale until the next expansion comes up. Changing it up for another great F2P card game is not a bad idea. People are questing way too much into this and just need to chill.
I play both MTGA and Hearthstone. I don't plan on playing Artifact, mostly because of the initial cost. If I want to put money into a game, I prefer to play the game first and decide how much I am willing to play. If they ever offered a free trial period I would at least try it.
Now, onto the main point. Hearthstone (Blizzard) should be worried. not because MTGA is a better game, necessarily, but because competition will take away your customer base in some numbers. Even if the numbers are alot, it could take away your financial customers. If someone has to decide on paying for MTGA cards or Hearthstone cards they may choose MTGA over Hearhstone or vice versa. That means both companies have to decide how to maintain a paying customer AND attract new ones. That is actually good for the customer, us.
This also extends to Artifact (and Steam). Because Hearthstone had the biggest fan base to begin with along with having the best UI in the digital card game market (so far), they have been very successful. But this success will not hold if they decide not to actively keep players coming back.
That MAY mean offering more free stuff or package deals. Or running special events. Either way, both MTGA and Hearthstone have companies that have alot of marketing potential and money to throw at the game. I hope both Artifact and MTGA do well, as that benefits all of us.
Who is even surprised anymore ? New card games with big names and hype are coming out each Month and what Blizzard is doing ? releasing a stupid looking hero skin and canceling tournament mode.
Of course Hearthstone is too big to die instantly, if HS dies it would be a painful suffering like Diablo 3. Blizzard never listened to the D3 community and PoE murdered that game. Blizzard is doing the same with HS.
No card game is perfect, and I definitely think MtG is the better game in terms of design and interaction. I played MTGA a little last night, and it was a pretty good experience. One thing I'll say is largely in Hearthstone's favor though is the UI. It's simplicity and clean aesthetic make navigation really easy, and the bright colors are just pleasant.
Its a big thing, too. Right now, MTG:A is not very streamable. Its not fun to watch, especially if you aren't a MtG vet.
Part of it is simply not knowing the rules and what all the cards do - most likely streamers aren't going to explain every card and every rule whenever they stream. Hearthstone was probably the same at first - it's not because Magic is a worse game to stream.
I was around at the release of Hearthstone: it wasn't at all. People were playing with cards like Chillwind Yeti and Rag was one of the most complex cards. The community grew from things that simple. Thus when a new set came along the streamers could focus more on teaching the mechanics of the new cards along with the new decks and how they functioned.
Teaching the basic mechanics you can certainly do. But the cards regularly used are *NOT* simple in the slightest. You're NOT going to be able to explain how a Plainswalker works in a few seconds, and you'll have to explain the next card that came after, and so on. Folks who have been playing hearthstone for a few years can get into the game after perhaps a video of the differences and so long as they have the time to read the card and keyword guide. But unless you are imagining a mass migration of HS players into MTG the folks who will be flooding the streaming channels will be new to CCGs.
I was able to get it thanks to Spellslingers, but that was with them using VERY basic decks with **VERY** basic cards and being willing to slowly go over every aspect and every dropped card for 2 whole seasons. You can't do that in a high tier tournament: you need to assume people know most of the regular cards so you can focus on the key cards and strategies.
What MTGA will need is a Trump: someone who nets a TON of views that will focus on the basics and in simple decks and work up from there. I was able to latch on to Hearthstone via his F2P mage legend run back in the day. MTG will need a similar person.
Streamers can play more then one game. Right now Hearthstone is very stale until the next expansion comes up. Changing it up for another great F2P card game is not a bad idea. People are questing way too much into this and just need to chill.
That isn't necessarily true. Boomsday changed virtually nothing in the meta. Giggling Inventor maybe.
A lot of HS streamers are losing their viewers, almost 50% lost for kibler, amaz, savjz, kripp, etc. The only one to survive is thijsnl.
A lot of streamer are seeking for a harder game than hearthstone with less RANDOM effects on it. Lifecoach was the first to leave years ago, now that better options are available like MTG:a, artifact, gwent, etc i'm not surprise the big part of bored streamer will switch to a more interresting game.
What he says is true for a lot of other streamers too. I guess now HS streamer will play 1 month after expansion then switch to an other game every time.
I was bored at WW expansion. It seems that it was the expansion that bored a lot of people (in my HS discord, 80% players switched to MTG:a or simply stopped HS recently). Hope HS will bring some new mechanics and not only news minions with different stats or with just taunt or divine shield sometimes to make them different :/
I love watching Savjz play HS, but I understand why he would want a change. Sadly I won't be following him to watch Magic.
In response to what Savjz says about doing the same thing everyday I have to say it but that will eventually happen with Magic as well, or any other card game. I don't care how amazing a game is, you will always hit that wall where you realize that the daily, or weekly, or monthly grind is real and you suddenly doing the same stuff most of the time you play, just under a different game.
A lot of HS streamers are losing their viewers, almost 50% lost for kibler, amaz, savjz, kripp, etc. The only one to survive is thijsnl.
A lot of streamer are seeking for a harder game than hearthstone with less RANDOM effects on it. Lifecoach was the first to leave years ago, now that better options are available like MTG:a, artifact, gwent, etc i'm not surprise the big part of bored streamer will switch to a more interresting game.
What he says is true for a lot of other streamers too. I guess now HS streamer will play 1 month after expansion then switch to an other game every time.
I was bored at WW expansion. It seems that it was the expansion that bored a lot of people (in my HS discord, 80% players switched to MTG:a or simply stopped HS recently). Hope HS will bring some new mechanics and not only news minions with different stats or with just taunt or divine shield sometimes to make them different :/
I love watching Savjz play HS, but I understand why he would want a change. Sadly I won't be following him to watch Magic.
In response to what Savjz says about doing the same thing everyday I have to say it but that will eventually happen with Magic as well, or any other card game. I don't care how amazing a game is, you will always hit that wall where you realize that the daily, or weekly, or monthly grind is real and you suddenly doing the same stuff most of the time you play, just under a different game.
The key part of what you were saying is what length of time spans between loving the gaming and hating it. Think about how many thousands of stream hours Savjz played Hearthstone; it's safe to say he crossed the boundry of common sense a long time ago; being powered by the allmighty dollar takes its toll.
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If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
A lot of HS streamers are losing their viewers, almost 50% lost for kibler, amaz, savjz, kripp, etc. The only one to survive is thijsnl.
A lot of streamer are seeking for a harder game than hearthstone with less RANDOM effects on it. Lifecoach was the first to leave years ago, now that better options are available like MTG:a, artifact, gwent, etc i'm not surprise the big part of bored streamer will switch to a more interresting game.
What he says is true for a lot of other streamers too. I guess now HS streamer will play 1 month after expansion then switch to an other game every time.
I was bored at WW expansion. It seems that it was the expansion that bored a lot of people (in my HS discord, 80% players switched to MTG:a or simply stopped HS recently). Hope HS will bring some new mechanics and not only news minions with different stats or with just taunt or divine shield sometimes to make them different :/
I love watching Savjz play HS, but I understand why he would want a change. Sadly I won't be following him to watch Magic.
In response to what Savjz says about doing the same thing everyday I have to say it but that will eventually happen with Magic as well, or any other card game. I don't care how amazing a game is, you will always hit that wall where you realize that the daily, or weekly, or monthly grind is real and you suddenly doing the same stuff most of the time you play, just under a different game.
The key part of what you were saying is what length of time spans between loving the gaming and hating it. Think about how many thousands of stream hours Savjz played Hearthstone; it's safe to say he crossed the boundry of common sense a long time ago; being powered by the allmighty dollar takes its toll.
Honestly that's probably more in line with how we should be looking at it. It's less about "the game dying" and more about the fact that eventually a person moves on. That it's prominent is a sign that the online CCG was VASTLY underserved so a good few people who were ready to move couldn't leave until just now.
Though I'm not too bothered by the 'OMG Blizzard is pushing people away" narrative as, while I think we're overthinking it, we really have gotten to our bi-Yearly rotation of Company Bashing as it seems to be at this point each year that we need to give them a slap to the back of the head and a demand to FIX IT!
(It's 'bi-yearly' right? As in twice a year with 'biannual' being 'every two years'? The other time is in January btw).
Honestly that's probably more in line with how we should be looking at it. It's less about "the game dying" and more about the fact that eventually a person moves on. That it's prominent is a sign that the online CCG was VASTLY underserved so a good few people who were ready to move couldn't leave until just now.
Though I'm not too bothered by the 'OMG Blizzard is pushing people away" narrative as, while I think we're overthinking it, we really have gotten to our bi-Yearly rotation of Company Bashing as it seems to be at this point each year that we need to give them a slap to the back of the head and a demand to FIX IT!
(It's 'bi-yearly' right? As in twice a year with 'biannual' being 'every two years'? The other time is in January btw).
The term you're looking for is "semi-annual" =P.
I, for one, will be at least trying to leave Hearthstone, at least until the expansion comes out (same with a lot of people I think). I'll still stick around to do my dailies, reach rank 5 for the gold epic, and play over my lunch breaks (since MTGA isn't on mobile). MTGA just has sooo much more to do, and it feels so much more satisfying to play.
The main reason I got into Hearthstone so many years ago was, and I remember saying this, "It's great to play a card game that I can enjoy for free". Obviously I've sunk some dollars into the game since then, but it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than starting Magic from scratch. Now that we can play Magic in a similar fashion, I just don't see why I'd stay here haha. Not saying I'll just quit Hearthstone on the spot, but I think I'm ready to start converting.
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Kids and bunch of losers.
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Its a big thing, too. Right now, MTG:A is not very streamable. Its not fun to watch, especially if you aren't a MtG vet.
Don't worry about people like that, they're just insecure about their decisions. You don't see me on Artifactpwn shouting at people about HS because I am not insecure about it.
Part of it is simply not knowing the rules and what all the cards do - most likely streamers aren't going to explain every card and every rule whenever they stream. Hearthstone was probably the same at first - it's not because Magic is a worse game to stream.
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yup exactly, he's been added to my ignored users list now anyways, aint got time for people like that.
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.
It is though. Part of the benefit to HS being a more simple game is that it makes for clearer viewing, and is therefore more accessible. You don't need a very deep understanding of HS to get the gist of what's going on. There isn't that much for a streamer to explain.
As a much more involved game - there is a ton more happening each turn in something like Magic. And since a lot of these things (at least right now) aren't accompanied by fun UI that signifies it for the viewers, it isn't as accessible. It's understandable that a streamer doesn't want to explain everything, because there's a lot to explain. But it does make it worse for viewers.
I think this is also part of the reason Gwent fell by the wayside.
A bit more to say about this...
I ve been playing MTG since my highschool years, the card game is great, but I ve checked out any MTG virtual game and they all suck when played via online matchups.
MTG is too complex in its game architecture, due it cannot be transformed into a virtual game easily. In most situations, if one player takes an action, the other player can interfer. In a card game, that works, but in any MTG video game, a player has to be asked by the game itself if he wants to perform such action. The result is an extremly slow pacing. Don
Well, MTG would have to be strongly simplified before it could be made into a game as fluidly running as hearthstone does. Plainswalker was a great game but took ages when played online.
So overall, I think if Blizzard "would" indeed loose their fanbase, it would not be because of the competition by Wizzards of the Coast, but by their loot box system that might either scare new players away from joining hearthstone universe, or let existing players quit since surviving in the META does require more and more expensive cards.
Personally i think either the paying system and the consistency of META decks are fair, but i ve heard otherwise from a bunch of players,
I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. I've added numbers so I can address each point separately.
1. After playing last night, I did not find it to be "too complex" to be a digital game. Even with the ability to make plays on my opponent's turn, I don't recall a turn taking longer than the allowed HS turn. It might be slower on average, but the complexity doesn't make it unable to be properly ported to the digital realm. Once you get used to the gameflow and understand the rules, it goes at a good pace.
2. Hearthstone almost certainly won't lose a significant portion of their playerbase to another game. What is more likely to happen is some of those players play Artifact, some play MTG:A, some play Gwent....they all still play Hearthstone too. As long as new expansions are released and there is money in the tournament scene, it almost certainly will retain players who are too far invested to quit.
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This is a good point and one that people really seem to ignore. You can play more than one game. It's not a one or the other proposition.
Streamers can play more then one game. Right now Hearthstone is very stale until the next expansion comes up. Changing it up for another great F2P card game is not a bad idea. People are questing way too much into this and just need to chill.
I play both MTGA and Hearthstone. I don't plan on playing Artifact, mostly because of the initial cost. If I want to put money into a game, I prefer to play the game first and decide how much I am willing to play. If they ever offered a free trial period I would at least try it.
Now, onto the main point. Hearthstone (Blizzard) should be worried. not because MTGA is a better game, necessarily, but because competition will take away your customer base in some numbers. Even if the numbers are alot, it could take away your financial customers. If someone has to decide on paying for MTGA cards or Hearthstone cards they may choose MTGA over Hearhstone or vice versa. That means both companies have to decide how to maintain a paying customer AND attract new ones. That is actually good for the customer, us.
This also extends to Artifact (and Steam). Because Hearthstone had the biggest fan base to begin with along with having the best UI in the digital card game market (so far), they have been very successful. But this success will not hold if they decide not to actively keep players coming back.
That MAY mean offering more free stuff or package deals. Or running special events. Either way, both MTGA and Hearthstone have companies that have alot of marketing potential and money to throw at the game. I hope both Artifact and MTGA do well, as that benefits all of us.
Who is even surprised anymore ? New card games with big names and hype are coming out each Month and what Blizzard is doing ? releasing a stupid looking hero skin and canceling tournament mode.
Of course Hearthstone is too big to die instantly, if HS dies it would be a painful suffering like Diablo 3. Blizzard never listened to the D3 community and PoE murdered that game. Blizzard is doing the same with HS.
I was around at the release of Hearthstone: it wasn't at all. People were playing with cards like Chillwind Yeti and Rag was one of the most complex cards. The community grew from things that simple. Thus when a new set came along the streamers could focus more on teaching the mechanics of the new cards along with the new decks and how they functioned.
Teaching the basic mechanics you can certainly do. But the cards regularly used are *NOT* simple in the slightest. You're NOT going to be able to explain how a Plainswalker works in a few seconds, and you'll have to explain the next card that came after, and so on. Folks who have been playing hearthstone for a few years can get into the game after perhaps a video of the differences and so long as they have the time to read the card and keyword guide. But unless you are imagining a mass migration of HS players into MTG the folks who will be flooding the streaming channels will be new to CCGs.
I was able to get it thanks to Spellslingers, but that was with them using VERY basic decks with **VERY** basic cards and being willing to slowly go over every aspect and every dropped card for 2 whole seasons. You can't do that in a high tier tournament: you need to assume people know most of the regular cards so you can focus on the key cards and strategies.
What MTGA will need is a Trump: someone who nets a TON of views that will focus on the basics and in simple decks and work up from there. I was able to latch on to Hearthstone via his F2P mage legend run back in the day. MTG will need a similar person.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
That isn't necessarily true. Boomsday changed virtually nothing in the meta. Giggling Inventor maybe.
They're not gonna stay. Don't freak out guys.
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I love watching Savjz play HS, but I understand why he would want a change. Sadly I won't be following him to watch Magic.
In response to what Savjz says about doing the same thing everyday I have to say it but that will eventually happen with Magic as well, or any other card game. I don't care how amazing a game is, you will always hit that wall where you realize that the daily, or weekly, or monthly grind is real and you suddenly doing the same stuff most of the time you play, just under a different game.
The key part of what you were saying is what length of time spans between loving the gaming and hating it. Think about how many thousands of stream hours Savjz played Hearthstone; it's safe to say he crossed the boundry of common sense a long time ago; being powered by the allmighty dollar takes its toll.
If you thought you knew what you think I know, then you'd know I knew you knew I know.
Honestly that's probably more in line with how we should be looking at it. It's less about "the game dying" and more about the fact that eventually a person moves on. That it's prominent is a sign that the online CCG was VASTLY underserved so a good few people who were ready to move couldn't leave until just now.
Though I'm not too bothered by the 'OMG Blizzard is pushing people away" narrative as, while I think we're overthinking it, we really have gotten to our bi-Yearly rotation of Company Bashing as it seems to be at this point each year that we need to give them a slap to the back of the head and a demand to FIX IT!
(It's 'bi-yearly' right? As in twice a year with 'biannual' being 'every two years'? The other time is in January btw).
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
The term you're looking for is "semi-annual" =P.
I, for one, will be at least trying to leave Hearthstone, at least until the expansion comes out (same with a lot of people I think). I'll still stick around to do my dailies, reach rank 5 for the gold epic, and play over my lunch breaks (since MTGA isn't on mobile). MTGA just has sooo much more to do, and it feels so much more satisfying to play.
The main reason I got into Hearthstone so many years ago was, and I remember saying this, "It's great to play a card game that I can enjoy for free". Obviously I've sunk some dollars into the game since then, but it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than starting Magic from scratch. Now that we can play Magic in a similar fashion, I just don't see why I'd stay here haha. Not saying I'll just quit Hearthstone on the spot, but I think I'm ready to start converting.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
Shiny object syndrome - they'll be back, just like the last time when they Gwent away for a bit.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.