Hey guys, I crafted Odd Warrior a few days ago, because it seemed like a fun deck (plus I never really played Warrior and I want to get closer to my golden portrait). But now that I'm playing it, it seems like this deck just loses against most matchups. (I realize it might be just because I suck and if it's so, feel free to tell me.)
Here is what I observed so far: it basically auto-loses against most druid decks (it beats Malygos if you have a lot of armor, but Toggwaggle and Mechathun are just a lost cause), it struggles against control mage (Jaina's hero power seems to be too much), any OTK deck kills it (OTK Paladin, Quest Rogue, Shudderwock), Hunter is very hard to beat (it's hard to clear the board with brawls etc., when their board is full of deathrattles + Rexxar just provides infinite value Warrior can't compete with) and mirror matchups against other Odd Warriors go forever and who wins is basically a coin flip.
I know it's a great deck against aggro (Zoolock and Odd Rogue), but honestly those make up like 10 % of my matchups.
Am I doing something wrong? Thanks for any advice!
ur kinda right otk decks are a problem for odd warri (except u outarmor their dmg if possible), ctrl mage and other ctrl decks without wincondition a favorable for u especially jaina is if u play it tight very easy. (After they go Jaina be so reactive as possible, dont commit to much on the board to avoid free water ellys. U win the Fatigue game anyways. Just survive and keep a brawl for alanna thats all.)
And as u mentioned aggro matchups is high favorable for u.
I wish I knew this before i dropped around 6000 dust on it. Honestly my matchups are like: toggwaggle druid - shudderwock shaman - quest rogue - OTK paladin - zoolock - odd warrior - deathrattle hunter - mechathun druid - mechathun priest.
Seriously, one aggresive deck per ten control/OTK decks. My winrate is pathetic and every game lasts 20 minutes +. Seriously not worth it. But if I switched to midrange right now, I bet I would only encounter odd rogue and zoolock...
I wish I knew this before i dropped around 6000 dust on it. Honestly my matchups are like: toggwaggle druid - shudderwock shaman - quest rogue - OTK paladin - zoolock - odd warrior - deathrattle hunter - mechathun druid - mechathun priest.
Seriously, one aggresive deck per ten control/OTK decks. My winrate is pathetic and every game lasts 20 minutes +. Seriously not worth it. But if I switched to midrange right now, I bet I would only encounter odd rogue and zoolock...
Low ranks are full of control otk decks. Odd warrior aint for those ranks. I use bulldozers and boomship to be more agressive and Alexstrasza
You crush every aggro deck unless you draw dead and they have a nutty hand. You generally beat Malygos Druid unless they ramp into a lot of pressure before you can really get going, you simply gain so much life they can never burst you down and the same goes for Mind Blast Control Priest.
You have a few auto-loss matchups (notably anything running Togwaggle or Mecha'thun, as well as Shudderwock and Quest Rogue).
The interesting ones are control mirrors and non-OTK combo builds (like Deathrattle Hunter/Rogue). Deathrattle Hunter is the most skill intensive matchup for Odd Warrior. You are not favoured for sure but its nowhere near as bad as you might think - Boom's passive and Omega Assembly are often enough to out-tempo and out-resource Deathstalker Rexxar just long enough to kill them in fatigue - the real tough part of this matchup is surviving the early onslaught of sticky boards of 5/5s. You are basically always playing a fatigue game in control mirrors (and therefore you never use Shield Blocks or Town Criers, if you run them, in these matchups).
Control Mage is favoured against you but can be beaten. If you are struggling with Jaina the key is to understand when to use removals and when to save them (a single 3/6 smacking you in the face each turn is actually dealing -1 damage so you can ignore it temporarily). Geist is a big issue in this matchup so generally I'd try to play any Shield Slams and Omega Assemblies you draw before 6, or be greedy and hold Assembly til 10 if you suspect they are not holding Geist or are (somehow) able to pressure them enough that they can't play it. Also try and use your Ironbeak Owls before Jaina comes down as the 1hp can become a liability against her. It is a hard matchup for sure but not unwinnable.
Control Warlock can be easy or hard based on whether they are playing Rin or get her off of a Stonehill Defender. You need Ironbeak Owls ready for her but if she ever goes off you don't need to concede instantly because there are still outs to play to. If you run Azalina (personally I don't anymore due to the low number of matchups in which she is useful) you can copy their Azari and take the game to fatigue, where if they haven't drawn Gul'Dan, you are heavily favoured. Alternatively there's the possibility of Omega Assembly/Delivery Drone into Mecha'Thun and you can try to cheese a win that way. Additionally if Rin comes fairly late, there's always the option of holding Direhorns and Elise until after Azari to buy yourself a few more turns without fatigue. If they don't play Rin or you successfully Silence her the game is a cakewalk. The pressure on you is so low that you will take them into fatigue and run them out of stuff very easily.
The mirror match is all about the dance of Direhorns and Silences, as well as Stonehill and Boom RNG. You want to get Boom online fairly early on and your playstyle will be dictated heavily by the hero powers you are given. If you get a lot of Delivery Drone and Micro Squad you want to play for board and value in the hope that when it comes down to endgame you are able to stick a couple of minions to add to their fatigue clock. Alternatively if you get more Blast Shield and Zap Cannon (compliments either strategy actually) you want to go with pure fatigue and just try keeping the board clear while healing and damaging face as much as possible. Typically if you get decent Stonehill RNG or are able to get your Direhorns off while silencing theirs, you will have an easy game.
I've been playing it for a few days and it is totally dependent on getting the right opponents. This meta is filled with combo and control decks which can outperform it. And I've even had games against aggro which saw them get vicious starts and me drawing / mulliganing no early answers. It's also a very tight match against hunters and rogues, who can get the drop on you with deathrattle. I personally believe control is a foolish choice to ladder with. The games are long, often with no reward. That being said, odd warrior is far more fun to play than many other control decks. So I enjoyed some of the matches. Yesterday I got two exodia mage opponents in quick succession which has convinced me that control is a sucker's choice. I'll go back to aggro and mid-range from here on.
It's good against everything but OTK decks - topsy turvy, mecha'thun decks, toggwagle (might be winnable if you play azalina) and shudderwock. You have 1 or less % chance against these.
It's good against everything but OTK decks - topsy turvy, mecha'thun decks, toggwagle (might be winnable if you play azalina) and shudderwock. You have 1 or less % chance against these.
It can be weak against control too. I played a maddening game against quest priest with benedictus. It feels really bad to lose to that.
Ladder is a game of matchups, more than a game of skill. Keep grinding: eventually you'll run into a streak of favorable matchups and get those easy stars. The question is whether you like the playstyle of the deck. I haven't played it, but for me it looks too slow and passive (and I generally like control playstyle).
Thank you all for your advice. I love playing control, but it seems like it really can't find its place in the meta right now. It really sucks when you spend 20+ minutes playing a game just to lose. I will probably go back to Elemental Mage, but I'm sure I will only encounter aggro then :D
the weakness to OTK decks seems to be kind of overstated. Mecha'thun decks are extremely weak accross the board so you rarely see them, and Togwaggle is probably the weakest variant of the current crop of Druid combo decks. This has been my experience so far hovering around Rank 5, maybe things are different up in legend or lower than that tho.
Even then some of the bad matchups you have can be skill intensive for the opponent, so with some luck you can squeeze out the occasional win. So far the only encounter i've had with an OTK deck this early into the month (as in one that bypasses piling up a ton of armor) has been a Topsy Turvy priest that dinged up the sequencing and then conceded. I even beat out a Quest Rogue yesterday on the back of the other player making a lot of mistakes piloting the deck
Odd Warrior is a decent deck, it's just not a meta-breaker one so if you are trying to climb with it you are going to have to make some meta calls every once in a while
You should be playing Azalina Soulthief. It completely counters Togwaggle and can beat Shudderwock lists.
Will say there are little/no Mechathun decks at higher ranks, so like Kingsbane Rogue, it isn't a matchup to normally consider.
You beat almost any form of control/even warlock if you run Quest instead of Boom. Boom is seemingly a trap and is very rarely if at all useful. The main way people try to use boom is to pressure other decks by making mechs and having them gain rush. Quest just does pressure better.
Anything with a cube isn't a horrible matchup for you, you just need double owl. I would say double owl and don't even consider weapon removal, the few matchups where weapon removal is good you don't need the extra help anyway.
Seems like you are just running a bad list at beating a majority of the control/combo based decks, or you just need to change your mindset when playing vs those decks. You beat every other control deck in the game if they don't have a combo, and Azalina can win you those. Try experimenting with techs and changing your mindset and you will understand how to play those mu's better. Here is my current favorite list for ladder for reference.
Many control decks force the meta to change for OTK's and quest rogue, many OTK's and quest rogue force the meta to change to aggros, many aggros force the meta to change to controls, etc...
Odd warrior is a extremely polarized deck, you will win vs any aggro and will lose to everything else, if the majority of your matches is not aggro you only choose the wrong time to play that.
Whenever they play Dreampetal Florist, you can drop Azalina and usually counter their plan because now you can swap decks as much as they can, meaning eventually everyone gets their original decks.
I only added Azalina to my deck today and every time I encountered Druid today (and I encountered a lot of them), they were playing token or taunt or mechathun, no toggwaggle. But yesterday, when I didn't have Azalina, toggwaggle druid was my every other opponent. It also sucks that you don't even know which druid deck you are playing against until almost the last turn.
But honestly, I feel like the matchmaking in this game is terribly against the player. I know people claim this all the time and I usually laugh at them too, but I played against a lot of aggro decks before, but after I switched to odd warrior 2 days ago I was matched against almost no aggro decks. Now I switched to elemental mage and it's all aggro decks again.
Honestly, currently at rank 19 (and typically play between 20-15), I am still running into alot of aggro (Zoo, Odd paly and rogue) decks. Odd Warrior is a beast against those decks. I love to see them as my next on ladder, but I totally agree that this deck is horrible against a lot of control and OTK decks- it just doesn't have the consistent aggressive edge- Dr. Boom and Omega Assembly can help but he's inconsistent at best
Whenever they play Dreampetal Florist, you can drop Azalina and usually counter their plan because now you can swap decks as much as they can, meaning eventually everyone gets their original decks.
Hey guys, I crafted Odd Warrior a few days ago, because it seemed like a fun deck (plus I never really played Warrior and I want to get closer to my golden portrait). But now that I'm playing it, it seems like this deck just loses against most matchups. (I realize it might be just because I suck and if it's so, feel free to tell me.)
Here is what I observed so far: it basically auto-loses against most druid decks (it beats Malygos if you have a lot of armor, but Toggwaggle and Mechathun are just a lost cause), it struggles against control mage (Jaina's hero power seems to be too much), any OTK deck kills it (OTK Paladin, Quest Rogue, Shudderwock), Hunter is very hard to beat (it's hard to clear the board with brawls etc., when their board is full of deathrattles + Rexxar just provides infinite value Warrior can't compete with) and mirror matchups against other Odd Warriors go forever and who wins is basically a coin flip.
I know it's a great deck against aggro (Zoolock and Odd Rogue), but honestly those make up like 10 % of my matchups.
Am I doing something wrong? Thanks for any advice!
You answered it. All aggro and Maly Druid. Throw in Secret/Spell Hunter, Burn Mage, Even/Midrange Shaman, most forms of Warlock.
ur kinda right otk decks are a problem for odd warri (except u outarmor their dmg if possible), ctrl mage and other ctrl decks without wincondition a favorable for u especially jaina is if u play it tight very easy. (After they go Jaina be so reactive as possible, dont commit to much on the board to avoid free water ellys. U win the Fatigue game anyways. Just survive and keep a brawl for alanna thats all.)
And as u mentioned aggro matchups is high favorable for u.
I wish I knew this before i dropped around 6000 dust on it. Honestly my matchups are like: toggwaggle druid - shudderwock shaman - quest rogue - OTK paladin - zoolock - odd warrior - deathrattle hunter - mechathun druid - mechathun priest.
Seriously, one aggresive deck per ten control/OTK decks. My winrate is pathetic and every game lasts 20 minutes +. Seriously not worth it. But if I switched to midrange right now, I bet I would only encounter odd rogue and zoolock...
Low ranks are full of control otk decks. Odd warrior aint for those ranks. I use bulldozers and boomship to be more agressive and Alexstrasza
You crush every aggro deck unless you draw dead and they have a nutty hand. You generally beat Malygos Druid unless they ramp into a lot of pressure before you can really get going, you simply gain so much life they can never burst you down and the same goes for Mind Blast Control Priest.
You have a few auto-loss matchups (notably anything running Togwaggle or Mecha'thun, as well as Shudderwock and Quest Rogue).
The interesting ones are control mirrors and non-OTK combo builds (like Deathrattle Hunter/Rogue). Deathrattle Hunter is the most skill intensive matchup for Odd Warrior. You are not favoured for sure but its nowhere near as bad as you might think - Boom's passive and Omega Assembly are often enough to out-tempo and out-resource Deathstalker Rexxar just long enough to kill them in fatigue - the real tough part of this matchup is surviving the early onslaught of sticky boards of 5/5s. You are basically always playing a fatigue game in control mirrors (and therefore you never use Shield Blocks or Town Criers, if you run them, in these matchups).
Control Mage is favoured against you but can be beaten. If you are struggling with Jaina the key is to understand when to use removals and when to save them (a single 3/6 smacking you in the face each turn is actually dealing -1 damage so you can ignore it temporarily). Geist is a big issue in this matchup so generally I'd try to play any Shield Slams and Omega Assemblies you draw before 6, or be greedy and hold Assembly til 10 if you suspect they are not holding Geist or are (somehow) able to pressure them enough that they can't play it. Also try and use your Ironbeak Owls before Jaina comes down as the 1hp can become a liability against her. It is a hard matchup for sure but not unwinnable.
Control Warlock can be easy or hard based on whether they are playing Rin or get her off of a Stonehill Defender. You need Ironbeak Owls ready for her but if she ever goes off you don't need to concede instantly because there are still outs to play to. If you run Azalina (personally I don't anymore due to the low number of matchups in which she is useful) you can copy their Azari and take the game to fatigue, where if they haven't drawn Gul'Dan, you are heavily favoured. Alternatively there's the possibility of Omega Assembly/Delivery Drone into Mecha'Thun and you can try to cheese a win that way. Additionally if Rin comes fairly late, there's always the option of holding Direhorns and Elise until after Azari to buy yourself a few more turns without fatigue. If they don't play Rin or you successfully Silence her the game is a cakewalk. The pressure on you is so low that you will take them into fatigue and run them out of stuff very easily.
The mirror match is all about the dance of Direhorns and Silences, as well as Stonehill and Boom RNG. You want to get Boom online fairly early on and your playstyle will be dictated heavily by the hero powers you are given. If you get a lot of Delivery Drone and Micro Squad you want to play for board and value in the hope that when it comes down to endgame you are able to stick a couple of minions to add to their fatigue clock. Alternatively if you get more Blast Shield and Zap Cannon (compliments either strategy actually) you want to go with pure fatigue and just try keeping the board clear while healing and damaging face as much as possible. Typically if you get decent Stonehill RNG or are able to get your Direhorns off while silencing theirs, you will have an easy game.
I've been playing it for a few days and it is totally dependent on getting the right opponents. This meta is filled with combo and control decks which can outperform it. And I've even had games against aggro which saw them get vicious starts and me drawing / mulliganing no early answers. It's also a very tight match against hunters and rogues, who can get the drop on you with deathrattle. I personally believe control is a foolish choice to ladder with. The games are long, often with no reward. That being said, odd warrior is far more fun to play than many other control decks. So I enjoyed some of the matches. Yesterday I got two exodia mage opponents in quick succession which has convinced me that control is a sucker's choice. I'll go back to aggro and mid-range from here on.
It's good against everything but OTK decks - topsy turvy, mecha'thun decks, toggwagle (might be winnable if you play azalina) and shudderwock. You have 1 or less % chance against these.
It can be weak against control too. I played a maddening game against quest priest with benedictus. It feels really bad to lose to that.
Ladder is a game of matchups, more than a game of skill. Keep grinding: eventually you'll run into a streak of favorable matchups and get those easy stars. The question is whether you like the playstyle of the deck. I haven't played it, but for me it looks too slow and passive (and I generally like control playstyle).
Thank you all for your advice. I love playing control, but it seems like it really can't find its place in the meta right now. It really sucks when you spend 20+ minutes playing a game just to lose. I will probably go back to Elemental Mage, but I'm sure I will only encounter aggro then :D
the weakness to OTK decks seems to be kind of overstated. Mecha'thun decks are extremely weak accross the board so you rarely see them, and Togwaggle is probably the weakest variant of the current crop of Druid combo decks. This has been my experience so far hovering around Rank 5, maybe things are different up in legend or lower than that tho.
Even then some of the bad matchups you have can be skill intensive for the opponent, so with some luck you can squeeze out the occasional win. So far the only encounter i've had with an OTK deck this early into the month (as in one that bypasses piling up a ton of armor) has been a Topsy Turvy priest that dinged up the sequencing and then conceded. I even beat out a Quest Rogue yesterday on the back of the other player making a lot of mistakes piloting the deck
Odd Warrior is a decent deck, it's just not a meta-breaker one so if you are trying to climb with it you are going to have to make some meta calls every once in a while
You should be playing Azalina Soulthief. It completely counters Togwaggle and can beat Shudderwock lists.
Will say there are little/no Mechathun decks at higher ranks, so like Kingsbane Rogue, it isn't a matchup to normally consider.
You beat almost any form of control/even warlock if you run Quest instead of Boom. Boom is seemingly a trap and is very rarely if at all useful. The main way people try to use boom is to pressure other decks by making mechs and having them gain rush. Quest just does pressure better.
Anything with a cube isn't a horrible matchup for you, you just need double owl. I would say double owl and don't even consider weapon removal, the few matchups where weapon removal is good you don't need the extra help anyway.
Seems like you are just running a bad list at beating a majority of the control/combo based decks, or you just need to change your mindset when playing vs those decks. You beat every other control deck in the game if they don't have a combo, and Azalina can win you those. Try experimenting with techs and changing your mindset and you will understand how to play those mu's better. Here is my current favorite list for ladder for reference.
# 1x (1) Fire Plume's Heart
# 2x (1) Shield Slam
# 2x (1) Whirlwind
# 2x (3) Ironbeak Owl
# 1x (3) Phantom Militia
# 2x (3) Reckless Flurry
# 2x (3) Shield Block
# 2x (3) Stonehill Defender
# 1x (3) Zola the Gorgon
# 2x (5) Brawl
# 2x (5) Direhorn Hatchling
# 2x (5) Dyn-o-matic
# 1x (5) Elise the Trailblazer
# 2x (5) Giggling Inventor
# 2x (5) Supercollider
# 1x (5) Zilliax
# 1x (9) Baku the Mooneater
# 1x (7) Azalina Soulthief
# 1x (9) King Mosh
Many control decks force the meta to change for OTK's and quest rogue, many OTK's and quest rogue force the meta to change to aggros, many aggros force the meta to change to controls, etc...
Odd warrior is a extremely polarized deck, you will win vs any aggro and will lose to everything else, if the majority of your matches is not aggro you only choose the wrong time to play that.
I may sound dumb but.. ¿hoy u counter Togwaggle with Azalina?
I made it to legend on the 30th of last month and I played odd warrior.
Whenever they play Dreampetal Florist, you can drop Azalina and usually counter their plan because now you can swap decks as much as they can, meaning eventually everyone gets their original decks.
I only added Azalina to my deck today and every time I encountered Druid today (and I encountered a lot of them), they were playing token or taunt or mechathun, no toggwaggle. But yesterday, when I didn't have Azalina, toggwaggle druid was my every other opponent. It also sucks that you don't even know which druid deck you are playing against until almost the last turn.
But honestly, I feel like the matchmaking in this game is terribly against the player. I know people claim this all the time and I usually laugh at them too, but I played against a lot of aggro decks before, but after I switched to odd warrior 2 days ago I was matched against almost no aggro decks. Now I switched to elemental mage and it's all aggro decks again.
Honestly, currently at rank 19 (and typically play between 20-15), I am still running into alot of aggro (Zoo, Odd paly and rogue) decks. Odd Warrior is a beast against those decks. I love to see them as my next on ladder, but I totally agree that this deck is horrible against a lot of control and OTK decks- it just doesn't have the consistent aggressive edge- Dr. Boom and Omega Assembly can help but he's inconsistent at best
That doesn't work if they only have Azalina Soulthief and they draw King Togwaggle after you copied their hand.