Warrior is a class which has been up and down throughout the history of hearthstone, however what think that remains the same is most expansions warrior is the class that gets promoted to showcase the new mechanic.
Frozen throne: Damaging minions
Kobolds: Recruit
Witchwood: Rush
Boomsday: Mechs
This is a normally thing for a class to be given a new direction in with the start of a new set, HOWEVER most other classes do end up getting support for their theme unlike warrior, who seems to never get full support for a mechanic or their theme, but instead get a completely new one each set.
Warrior vs other classes:
Some examples of class mechanics and support over the last 5-6 expansions:
Priest: Ungoro: Awaken the Makers - Priest is given many deathrattle themed cards in nearly every set
These are just 3 examples, im sure there are many other classes that are supported with cards linked to their theme Druid and ramp, rogue and burgle, mage and elemental. Yes there are class mechanics that are not supported like freeze shaman and discard lock, but no class has never had so much confusion is WHAT IT DOES...than warrior.
The problem with warrior:
The question is, what does warrior even stand for? is it a weapon class? Armour class? a recruit class? taunt class? it seems to be a big mess.
From hearthstone wiki: "Hearthstone's master of war, the warrior is a powerful damage-oriented class. These mighty warlords command the allegiance of fast and deadly minions, sending them charging into the fray. Bloodthirsty gladiators, warriors thrive on damage and bloodshed, with their own wounds only serving to enrage and empower them, making them even deadlier than ever. The warrior's minions share this bloodlust, gaining fearsome new powers from the thrill of battle. As well as their fearsome prowess in attack, warriors are also masters of defence, boasting the most powerful armor of any class. With Armorsmiths and Shieldmaidens constantly crafting fresh pieces for them, warriors can build an unassailable fortress of steel, under which to crush their enemies."
So warriors, which is defined by hearthstone wiki as a self damage class that rushes minions into battle, that protects itself with Armour and most likely taunts. Ok fair there, but lets see what support it has.
Taunt: Ungoro gave Fire Plume's Heart and Taunt minions, but in the last 4 expansion...warrior has gotten 1 new taunt minion in the form of Gemstudded Golem. Druid has gotten more taunt s that warrior, a class which quests NEEDS taunt minions.
Recruit: In Kobolds warrior was the main class with recruit cards, but since then in the last 2 expansion got no new big class minions you want to recruit or any cards based on recruit synergy.
Rush: In witchwood warrior had half of their cards based on rush, however this was one of the rare mechanics that was promoted in the expansion after boomsday, HOWEVER did not actually give any new warrior cards with rush, but focused on giving minions rush. This means rush did not get any support as warrior cant really put many of the new cards in a normal rush deck as either they needed mechs or big minions (which warrior has not gotten any in the last 3 expansion).
Weapons: for a weapon main class, warrior has gotten weapons, BUT, the support for weapons and the weapons printed contradict eachother. Deadly Arsenal is a card that needs big attack weapons, but warrior has gotten small attack weapons like super collider [/card] and[card] woodcutters axe. These types of cards dont make much sense, as they dont seem to get any support in 2 expansions, but take up epic rarity.
Self damaging + Armour: Finally the only 2 mechanics that seem to get actual support seem to be supported over a longer period of time. this mechanics do seem to have cards printed to help the mechanic, BUT they are not printed enough to make either of the decks really competitive.
Conclusion:
Its normally for a class to have a theme and some themes are supported and some are not over the coarse of several expansion. HOWEVER, warrior seems to be a class which has TOO many different identities, but rarely get support for them. Instead they seem to be a class that just get given more and more identities over time and some of them are either forgotten or binned.
Warrior NEEDS a few more taunt cards in standard.
Warrior NEEDS a few high attack weapons.
Warrior NEEDS a few new rush minions
Warrior NEEDS to have a class identity as at the moment it seems like a collection of mechanics.
Don't get offended, but I will read your post a bit later. I didn't sleep much this night.
For now I'll just say the following thing - I like how you skipped shaman's Freeze, overload* and the totem themes. The elementals are great, but back in K&C and WW mage was considered the best elemental class* due to her DK and strong elemental synergies. Elemental shaman decks were the underdogs. If it wasn't for the Boomsday exp, I would say that shaman also needed an identity.
[note] You can't deny In boomsday warrior got the 9 mana Boomship legendary spell. I'm not saying that it's a good one, but it does offer some support for old decks such as big (aka recruit) warrior and it also has the rush keyword in it.
I did mention that some classes DONT get alot of support, i did say freeze shaman. yeah totems never got huge support, BUT i think overload has always got some form of support with new overload cards and the giant and spell stone.
For the boomship, that is a good card in recruit warrior like you said, but the point im making is warrior never got a class minion in 3 expansion it WANTS to recruit. Yeah neutral minions are good, but its sucky having a theme round recruiting minions, but having 0 big minions in the last 3 sets you want to have recruited. It also cant be played in a rush deck really, and gives not bonus for the rush minions that already dont see play.
I would let demons and elementals out of the discusion, like blizzard said, demons are the main tribe for warlock, and elementals for shamman and mage, the real problem becomes when you change a lot, and that whats blizzard made to warrior, like the post say, every expansion a new archtype, and unless neutral cards carrie those ones, warrior wont rise up very well, but i think they are still trying to make somethig really far from pirate warrior was, cause yeah, pirates were 1 the primordial tribe for warrior, maybe we can see it again but with an slower deck in a pirate expansion, (cause yeah, pirates can be more than SMOrc if blizzard make value pirats, like Captain Greenskin is now for Kingsbane rogue
This is actually quite a good point, but I feel that the reason warrior never really got further support for their archetypes is that it may become too powerful. Even as of now in the mess it is in, it manages 2 meta decks (Odd and Mech).
However, giving warrior an identity would be nice. We should turn this into a meme, "What mechanic is Blizzard going to showcase on warrior this time?", and maybe then Warrior may get better synergy cards.
Warrior needs more pirats - with charge of of course! ;D
Jokes aside (ok not totally a joke, I loved PW ^^), I whould like if Blizz whould make more Midrange mechs for Warrior in the future, so we maybe get a midrange mech Warrior as we got a midrange dragon Warrior in the past.
I don't think that a aggro type of deck like PW fitted Warrior - but I like it, when traditionally mostly control classes (like Priest and Warrior) having a viable midrangy option too to play with. :)
Blizzard should make a special stream lessons or youtube videos in which they explain the the only way hs should be played is with supa dupa 1000 IQ control/combo homebrewed decks and 30 minutes long match is a minimum time period that proves you're not braindead blah blah something etc.
Yes there are class mechanics that are not supported like freeze shaman and discard lock, but no class has never had so much confusion is WHAT IT DOES...than warrior.
Yeah, I just saw it.
Sorry for commenting, mate. I don't want to disregard your points. Like I said, I was too tired to read the rest of your post.
Firstly, their is no such thing as Class Identity in Hearthstone, and never will be.
Second, Priest is far worse as far as getting 'Support' for archetypes, at least Warrior has multiple archetypes going and viable, Priest has damn near nothing with our best deck being a shitty tier 4 combo deck.
Firstly, their is no such thing as Class Identity in Hearthstone, and never will be.
Second, Priest is far worse as far as getting 'Support' for archetypes, at least Warrior has multiple archetypes going and viable, Priest has damn near nothing with our best deck being a shitty tier 4 combo deck.
Hunter and druid beats, warrior and rogue with pirats, warlock demons, shamman and mage with elementals, mage is the main spell class, rogue has combo and burgle cards, druid has choose one, warrior has te most important amout of weapons, priest has heal, shadow and soulsteal cards, paladin divine shield, murlocs are one of the mian tribes for shmman like dragons are for priest, what do you mean with classes don't have it's own identity?
Say that classes don't have their own identity only says that those should not exist in first place couse just play every game at the same, independtly who are you playing against
I've always associated Warrior with armor gain (that's his hero power, of course), but Druid has been the one getting insane armor cards in the last few expansions (Ferocious Howl being the latest). The class is doing well lately with its odd archetypes in terms of armor gain, but the last good armor-related card that Warrior got seems to be Reckless Flurry. Right now, if you're not playing an odd version of a Warrior deck, you're gonna be swallowed whole by this aggro-infested meta.
The archetype that I wish would see relevance is Recruit Warrior. It's baffling that classes like Hunter and Warlock had much more success with the recruit mechanic when Warrior has such straightforward recruit cards like Gather Your Party and Woecleaver.
yeah it is insane. Druid has cards like Hadronox, a large class legendary minion with a insane effect that can be recruited where warrior has all these recruit cards, but our of the 40 cards in the last 4 sets, only have gotten Rotfaceto really want to be recruited.
Honestly, quality support is better than quantity of support.
Do you see demon tribal based warlock decks running around? No, you play the ones that fit your deck and bloodreaver because of the hero power, with him arguably pulling voidlord in and not vice versa.
Elemental shaman was unplayable as an archetype, and you run more synergies in even shaman because Murkspark Eel is busted, you can build a midrange shell around it and some of the best even costed cards are elementals right now.
Meanwhile, rush warrior was a deck, questwarrior is still a deck, recruitwarrior is a deck. The only thing that does not have its own viable deck is mechs. So idk, seems pretty good to me.
Thanks for commenting! i do see your argument and it is true, warrior does have many decks like taunt warrior where warlock with demons dont really have 1 good deck.
However the attitude of "just as a deck has support we dont need to give it any new cards" does not seem right to me.
Yes quest warrior is good, but i think more warrior taunts could end up making the deck better or even could change the dec, its not ok not to print any new warrior taunt as it has a deck that has taunt minions that is pretty decent.
The point is that warrior gets too many mechanic, you are right where it comes to quality support is better than quantity, but some warrior decks have no new support like the taunt warrior, which i dont feel like it very fair compared to other classes.
Deathrattle priest is a thing and still gets new deathrattle cards. where is our new taunt cards for taunt warrior?
yeah it is insane. Druid has cards like Hadronox, a large class legendary minion with a insane effect that can be recruited where warrior has all these recruit cards, but our of the 40 cards in the last 4 sets, only have gotten Rotfaceto really want to be recruited.
You're right, I forgot about Taunt Druid that was stronger (and more cancerous) than Warrior's taunt/quest archetype. Though it seems Taunt Druid has died lately, I haven't faced one in weeks.
I want Warrior to be Control with tons of armor and strong weapon, not a rushy pirate crap that runs out of fuel. ATM Odd Warrior with mechs and Dr Boom are decent and pretty fun but unfortunately cool cards like Yip, Gromash and Rotface can't be used in it. In meta now Warrior have big problems against classes with silly OP winconditions, most of them in Rogue, Druid and Shaman. (Shudderwock, several Malygos on the table, cards that swap decks etc, endless Kingsbane, etc etc.)
It's a bitl strange that Druid and even Mage often generate more armor and other classes have better weapon as well, for example Kingsbane. So atm Warrior isn't horrible but not even best in it's own identity, armor and weapon. And really not Taunts.
I really hope they develop a strategy as Control with a clear win condition. Off topic I hope Priest will be the functionell Dragon Class.
I think the main problem warrior is, that class is just "fair". There is no broken turns or cards e.g guldan or U.I. etc.
With warrior i have to think the most about my turn and every misplay is punsihed harder compared to other classes.
This.
Play CW atm , even its best Odd version variation , is such a pain . And I am mainly control warrior player since TGT and legend a few times. I also play BSM and such easy turn, even the winrate atm is below Odd Warrior but I doesnt feel tired like I play Warrior for 1 hour straight. The class is so fair that you really need to calculated precisely sometimes up to 1 armor, otherwise you dead next turn.
Warrior, like Rogue, has incredibly powerful basic/classic cards, so to compensate, the newer cards have to be a bit weaker. For rogue, this means the cards are just hot garbage; for warrior, this means they have a lot of different identities to push. If warrior gets too much support for an archetype, you end up with a Pirate Warrior situation, since they can ride their evergreen cards so far
Warrior, like Rogue, has incredibly powerful basic/classic cards, so to compensate, the newer cards have to be a bit weaker. For rogue, this means the cards are just hot garbage; for warrior, this means they have a lot of different identities to push. If warrior gets too much support for an archetype, you end up with a Pirate Warrior situation, since they can ride their evergreen cards so far
Had* incredibly powerful classic/basic cards. Sure, you still have Shield Slam and Brawl, but rip Firey Win Axe, and somewhat Execute.
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Warrior is a class which has been up and down throughout the history of hearthstone, however what think that remains the same is most expansions warrior is the class that gets promoted to showcase the new mechanic.
Frozen throne: Damaging minions
Kobolds: Recruit
Witchwood: Rush
Boomsday: Mechs
This is a normally thing for a class to be given a new direction in with the start of a new set, HOWEVER most other classes do end up getting support for their theme unlike warrior, who seems to never get full support for a mechanic or their theme, but instead get a completely new one each set.
Warrior vs other classes:
Some examples of class mechanics and support over the last 5-6 expansions:
Priest: Ungoro: Awaken the Makers - Priest is given many deathrattle themed cards in nearly every set
Kobolds:Gilded Gargoyle, Twilight’s Call
Witchwood: Coffin Crasher
Boomsday: Death ringer, Reckless Experimenter
Shaman: Ungoro Given several elemental cardsKalimos, Primal Lord.
Kobolds: Grumble, Worldshaker, Murmuring Elemental
Witchwood: Bogshaper , Earthen Might
Boomsday:Storm Chaser, Thunderhead, Elementary Reaction , Menacing Nimbus, , [card]Electra stormsurge
Warlocks: The whole demon support
Kobolds: Voidlord, Hooked Reaver, Vulgar Homunculus, Skull of the Man’ari, Possessed Lackey
Witchwood: Fiendish Circle, Witchwood Imp, Dark Possession
Boomsday: Nethersoul Buster, Ectomancy, Doubling Imp, Void Analyst
These are just 3 examples, im sure there are many other classes that are supported with cards linked to their theme Druid and ramp, rogue and burgle, mage and elemental. Yes there are class mechanics that are not supported like freeze shaman and discard lock, but no class has never had so much confusion is WHAT IT DOES...than warrior.
The problem with warrior:
The question is, what does warrior even stand for? is it a weapon class? Armour class? a recruit class? taunt class? it seems to be a big mess.
From hearthstone wiki: "Hearthstone's master of war, the warrior is a powerful damage-oriented class. These mighty warlords command the allegiance of fast and deadly minions, sending them charging into the fray. Bloodthirsty gladiators, warriors thrive on damage and bloodshed, with their own wounds only serving to enrage and empower them, making them even deadlier than ever. The warrior's minions share this bloodlust, gaining fearsome new powers from the thrill of battle. As well as their fearsome prowess in attack, warriors are also masters of defence, boasting the most powerful armor of any class. With Armorsmiths and Shieldmaidens constantly crafting fresh pieces for them, warriors can build an unassailable fortress of steel, under which to crush their enemies."
So warriors, which is defined by hearthstone wiki as a self damage class that rushes minions into battle, that protects itself with Armour and most likely taunts. Ok fair there, but lets see what support it has.
Taunt: Ungoro gave Fire Plume's Heart and Taunt minions, but in the last 4 expansion...warrior has gotten 1 new taunt minion in the form of Gemstudded Golem. Druid has gotten more taunt s that warrior, a class which quests NEEDS taunt minions.
Recruit: In Kobolds warrior was the main class with recruit cards, but since then in the last 2 expansion got no new big class minions you want to recruit or any cards based on recruit synergy.
Rush: In witchwood warrior had half of their cards based on rush, however this was one of the rare mechanics that was promoted in the expansion after boomsday, HOWEVER did not actually give any new warrior cards with rush, but focused on giving minions rush. This means rush did not get any support as warrior cant really put many of the new cards in a normal rush deck as either they needed mechs or big minions (which warrior has not gotten any in the last 3 expansion).
Weapons: for a weapon main class, warrior has gotten weapons, BUT, the support for weapons and the weapons printed contradict eachother. Deadly Arsenal is a card that needs big attack weapons, but warrior has gotten small attack weapons like super collider [/card] and[card] woodcutters axe. These types of cards dont make much sense, as they dont seem to get any support in 2 expansions, but take up epic rarity.
Self damaging + Armour: Finally the only 2 mechanics that seem to get actual support seem to be supported over a longer period of time. this mechanics do seem to have cards printed to help the mechanic, BUT they are not printed enough to make either of the decks really competitive.
Conclusion:
Its normally for a class to have a theme and some themes are supported and some are not over the coarse of several expansion. HOWEVER, warrior seems to be a class which has TOO many different identities, but rarely get support for them. Instead they seem to be a class that just get given more and more identities over time and some of them are either forgotten or binned.
Warrior NEEDS a few more taunt cards in standard.
Warrior NEEDS a few high attack weapons.
Warrior NEEDS a few new rush minions
Warrior NEEDS to have a class identity as at the moment it seems like a collection of mechanics.
Don't get offended, but I will read your post a bit later. I didn't sleep much this night.
For now I'll just say the following thing - I like how you skipped shaman's Freeze, overload* and the totem themes. The elementals are great, but back in K&C and WW mage was considered the best elemental class* due to her DK and strong elemental synergies. Elemental shaman decks were the underdogs. If it wasn't for the Boomsday exp, I would say that shaman also needed an identity.
[note] You can't deny In boomsday warrior got the 9 mana Boomship legendary spell. I'm not saying that it's a good one, but it does offer some support for old decks such as big (aka recruit) warrior and it also has the rush keyword in it.
Thanks for commenting!
I did mention that some classes DONT get alot of support, i did say freeze shaman. yeah totems never got huge support, BUT i think overload has always got some form of support with new overload cards and the giant and spell stone.
For the boomship, that is a good card in recruit warrior like you said, but the point im making is warrior never got a class minion in 3 expansion it WANTS to recruit. Yeah neutral minions are good, but its sucky having a theme round recruiting minions, but having 0 big minions in the last 3 sets you want to have recruited. It also cant be played in a rush deck really, and gives not bonus for the rush minions that already dont see play.
I would let demons and elementals out of the discusion, like blizzard said, demons are the main tribe for warlock, and elementals for shamman and mage, the real problem becomes when you change a lot, and that whats blizzard made to warrior, like the post say, every expansion a new archtype, and unless neutral cards carrie those ones, warrior wont rise up very well, but i think they are still trying to make somethig really far from pirate warrior was, cause yeah, pirates were 1 the primordial tribe for warrior, maybe we can see it again but with an slower deck in a pirate expansion, (cause yeah, pirates can be more than SMOrc if blizzard make value pirats, like Captain Greenskin is now for Kingsbane rogue
This is actually quite a good point, but I feel that the reason warrior never really got further support for their archetypes is that it may become too powerful. Even as of now in the mess it is in, it manages 2 meta decks (Odd and Mech).
However, giving warrior an identity would be nice. We should turn this into a meme, "What mechanic is Blizzard going to showcase on warrior this time?", and maybe then Warrior may get better synergy cards.
u wot.
Warrior needs more pirats - with charge of of course! ;D
Jokes aside (ok not totally a joke, I loved PW ^^), I whould like if Blizz whould make more Midrange mechs for Warrior in the future, so we maybe get a midrange mech Warrior as we got a midrange dragon Warrior in the past.
I don't think that a aggro type of deck like PW fitted Warrior - but I like it, when traditionally mostly control classes (like Priest and Warrior) having a viable midrangy option too to play with. :)
Yeah, I just saw it.
Sorry for commenting, mate. I don't want to disregard your points. Like I said, I was too tired to read the rest of your post.
Firstly, their is no such thing as Class Identity in Hearthstone, and never will be.
Second, Priest is far worse as far as getting 'Support' for archetypes, at least Warrior has multiple archetypes going and viable, Priest has damn near nothing with our best deck being a shitty tier 4 combo deck.
Hunter and druid beats, warrior and rogue with pirats, warlock demons, shamman and mage with elementals, mage is the main spell class, rogue has combo and burgle cards, druid has choose one, warrior has te most important amout of weapons, priest has heal, shadow and soulsteal cards, paladin divine shield, murlocs are one of the mian tribes for shmman like dragons are for priest, what do you mean with classes don't have it's own identity?
Say that classes don't have their own identity only says that those should not exist in first place couse just play every game at the same, independtly who are you playing against
Sad thing is that your post had more thought put into it than the devs put into balancing the expansion.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Good point, OP. Didn't see this issue until now.
I've always associated Warrior with armor gain (that's his hero power, of course), but Druid has been the one getting insane armor cards in the last few expansions (Ferocious Howl being the latest). The class is doing well lately with its odd archetypes in terms of armor gain, but the last good armor-related card that Warrior got seems to be Reckless Flurry. Right now, if you're not playing an odd version of a Warrior deck, you're gonna be swallowed whole by this aggro-infested meta.
The archetype that I wish would see relevance is Recruit Warrior. It's baffling that classes like Hunter and Warlock had much more success with the recruit mechanic when Warrior has such straightforward recruit cards like Gather Your Party and Woecleaver.
thanks!
yeah it is insane. Druid has cards like Hadronox, a large class legendary minion with a insane effect that can be recruited where warrior has all these recruit cards, but our of the 40 cards in the last 4 sets, only have gotten Rotfaceto really want to be recruited.
Thanks for commenting! i do see your argument and it is true, warrior does have many decks like taunt warrior where warlock with demons dont really have 1 good deck.
However the attitude of "just as a deck has support we dont need to give it any new cards" does not seem right to me.
Yes quest warrior is good, but i think more warrior taunts could end up making the deck better or even could change the dec, its not ok not to print any new warrior taunt as it has a deck that has taunt minions that is pretty decent.
The point is that warrior gets too many mechanic, you are right where it comes to quality support is better than quantity, but some warrior decks have no new support like the taunt warrior, which i dont feel like it very fair compared to other classes.
Deathrattle priest is a thing and still gets new deathrattle cards. where is our new taunt cards for taunt warrior?
You're right, I forgot about Taunt Druid that was stronger (and more cancerous) than Warrior's taunt/quest archetype. Though it seems Taunt Druid has died lately, I haven't faced one in weeks.
Warrior's really strong. Odd warrior is probably the best counter to aggro decks right now.
Good topic!
I want Warrior to be Control with tons of armor and strong weapon, not a rushy pirate crap that runs out of fuel. ATM Odd Warrior with mechs and Dr Boom are decent and pretty fun but unfortunately cool cards like Yip, Gromash and Rotface can't be used in it. In meta now Warrior have big problems against classes with silly OP winconditions, most of them in Rogue, Druid and Shaman. (Shudderwock, several Malygos on the table, cards that swap decks etc, endless Kingsbane, etc etc.)
It's a bitl strange that Druid and even Mage often generate more armor and other classes have better weapon as well, for example Kingsbane. So atm Warrior isn't horrible but not even best in it's own identity, armor and weapon. And really not Taunts.
I really hope they develop a strategy as Control with a clear win condition. Off topic I hope Priest will be the functionell Dragon Class.
Yeah ofc.
But your pattern can be also applied to Hunter and Shaman ;)
This.
Play CW atm , even its best Odd version variation , is such a pain . And I am mainly control warrior player since TGT and legend a few times. I also play BSM and such easy turn, even the winrate atm is below Odd Warrior but I doesnt feel tired like I play Warrior for 1 hour straight. The class is so fair that you really need to calculated precisely sometimes up to 1 armor, otherwise you dead next turn.
Warrior, like Rogue, has incredibly powerful basic/classic cards, so to compensate, the newer cards have to be a bit weaker. For rogue, this means the cards are just hot garbage; for warrior, this means they have a lot of different identities to push. If warrior gets too much support for an archetype, you end up with a Pirate Warrior situation, since they can ride their evergreen cards so far
Had* incredibly powerful classic/basic cards. Sure, you still have Shield Slam and Brawl, but rip Firey Win Axe, and somewhat Execute.