I've been watching Thijs today and his opponent played a Supercollider and then attacked Thijs' 0/9 taunt minion forcing it to attack his friendly 7/7 minion.
Usually, a 0 attack minion has no way to attack no matter what, I feel like Supercollider shouldn't work on minions that have no attack value. Kinda like even if you give charge to a minion that ''can't attack'' there is no way for it to attack.
What do you guys think ? Should Supercollider work on 0 attack minions ?
Considering the weapon itself says that the minion you're targeting has to attack a neighbor, I'd say it's fair. It's honestly difficult to convey on a card that a 0 Attack minion can't attack. A batch of coding would have to have 0 Attack minions written so that they can't issue an attack, though considering how Supercollider is issuing a forced attack, coding that prevents a 0 Attack minion from attacking would be overridden, considering the weapon is forcing that request.
I don't agree with it, but the logic stands, and because of this, I stand by the logic.
I feel like I did this the other day and felt dumb when it DID NOT attack. Wonder if it's bugged at all. I swear I hit a minion last week w/ Supercollider and it did nothing.
Ofcourse it should. Read what the card says. There is literally no logic for it not to work.
The logic is; a 0 attack minion should NOT be able to attack no matter what.
What if you give a 0 Attack minion some Attack points? It could attack then, right? If a 0 Attack minion can attack if it has a value, forcing it to attack when it has 0 Attack is the same base logic. You're giving it the ability to attack, even though it has no Attack points.
I voted yes. You cannot attack with a 0 attack minion but this card clearly states "force". There is no reason for that 0 attack minion to not attack it's neighbours.
Ofcourse it should. Read what the card says. There is literally no logic for it not to work.
The logic is; a 0 attack minion should NOT be able to attack no matter what.
What if you give a 0 Attack minion some Attack points? It could attack then, right? If a 0 Attack minion can attack if it has a value, forcing it to attack when it has 0 Attack is the same base logic. You're giving it the ability to attack, even though it has no Attack points.
The logic stands.
No, not really, it's not the same logic because as you said you give it attack value by increasing its attack. 1+ is not 0.
If we follow your logic, why can't we choose to attack with our 0 attack minions ? (for example needing board space, purposely killing your 0 attack minions to make room would make sense). However that's not possible because minions with no attack value shouldn't be able to attack. Charge does not override the ''can't attack text'' I don't see why Supercollider should overwrite the attack rule from 0 attack minions. Supercollider doesn't add any attack value.
Ofcourse it should. Read what the card says. There is literally no logic for it not to work.
The logic is; a 0 attack minion should NOT be able to attack no matter what.
What if you give a 0 Attack minion some Attack points? It could attack then, right? If a 0 Attack minion can attack if it has a value, forcing it to attack when it has 0 Attack is the same base logic. You're giving it the ability to attack, even though it has no Attack points.
The logic stands.
No, not really, it's not the same logic because as you said you give it attack value by increasing its attack. 1+ is not 0.
If we follow your logic, why can't we choose to attack with our 0 attack minions ? (for example needing board space, purposely killing your 0 attack minions to make room would make sense). However that's not possible because minions with no attack value shouldn't be able to attack. Charge does not override the ''can't attack text'' I don't see why Supercollider should overwrite the attack rule from 0 attack minions. Supercollider doesn't add any attack value.
Because it's like saying that because Betrayal can force enemy minions to damage each other that we should be able to choose to damage friendly characters with minion and Hero attacks. Supercollider and Betrayal both force an enemy minion to attack/deal damage which is why the logic stands. Charge doesn't override the "can't attack" text because Charge is a very specific application concerning rules of engagement concerning attacking. If giving something Charge that states clearly that it can't attack, the Charge is wasted completely. This isn't really a comparable logic, considering 0 Attack minions CAN attack. The only reason they can't normally attack is because they lack the offensive value required. Supercollider grants the offensive value in its own way. The minion having 0 Attack is irrelevant because 0 Attack minions being forced to attack versus 0 Attack minions being able to attack... two different situations. Being forced is different from having capabilities willed to you at your discretion.
OP do you not understand the word “forced” or something?
I think OP is forgetting that the minion with 0 Attack isn't trying to attack on its own. Next we're gonna hear that minions that can't attack shouldn't be able to damage other characters.
On a completely unrelated note, in MTG a 0 attack minion can attack, however no one would do that unless theres some wonky interactions or instants about to be played.
I think the animation does a good job of explaining how it works. It basically just knocks one minion into the other, "forcing" them to attack each other.
1. It specifically states "force" in the card text meaning it forces the interaction despite the fact that the card itself is not able to attack.
2. The whole theme of the weapon is that it basically hits a minion into another minion. The animation shows it as well. I do not see a problem with that at all. Supercollider hits one minion into another. Minion can't attack? No worries. I hit it and therefore the interaction works.
First of all, Supercollider being able to force a 0 attack minion to attack it's neighbour is fine by me. Secondly saying it is totally logical that a zero attack minion is being to attack it's neighbour just because the card uses the word force and that other interpretation which is for example by using intuition ,that a zero attack minion is unable to attack it's neighbour even though the card says otherwise like in the case of flark's boomzooka is borderline arrogant at the very least.
Shudderwock means driving a clown car in circles around your opponent while he swings his sword at you. Half the time he chops you and your car to pieces. The other half you park on his legs and 40 clowns come out one by one, trampling him to death.
Your question is basically "should specific cards be able to function as exceptions to rules", and the answer is obviously "yes", given how many times exceptions have been allowed in the past
I've been watching Thijs today and his opponent played a Supercollider and then attacked Thijs' 0/9 taunt minion forcing it to attack his friendly 7/7 minion.
Usually, a 0 attack minion has no way to attack no matter what, I feel like Supercollider shouldn't work on minions that have no attack value. Kinda like even if you give charge to a minion that ''can't attack'' there is no way for it to attack.
What do you guys think ? Should Supercollider work on 0 attack minions ?
Ofcourse it should. Read what the card says. There is literally no logic for it not to work.
The logic is; a 0 attack minion should NOT be able to attack no matter what.
Considering the weapon itself says that the minion you're targeting has to attack a neighbor, I'd say it's fair. It's honestly difficult to convey on a card that a 0 Attack minion can't attack. A batch of coding would have to have 0 Attack minions written so that they can't issue an attack, though considering how Supercollider is issuing a forced attack, coding that prevents a 0 Attack minion from attacking would be overridden, considering the weapon is forcing that request.
I don't agree with it, but the logic stands, and because of this, I stand by the logic.
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I feel like I did this the other day and felt dumb when it DID NOT attack. Wonder if it's bugged at all. I swear I hit a minion last week w/ Supercollider and it did nothing.
What if you give a 0 Attack minion some Attack points? It could attack then, right? If a 0 Attack minion can attack if it has a value, forcing it to attack when it has 0 Attack is the same base logic. You're giving it the ability to attack, even though it has no Attack points.
The logic stands.
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I voted yes. You cannot attack with a 0 attack minion but this card clearly states "force".
There is no reason for that 0 attack minion to not attack it's neighbours.
No, not really, it's not the same logic because as you said you give it attack value by increasing its attack. 1+ is not 0.
If we follow your logic, why can't we choose to attack with our 0 attack minions ? (for example needing board space, purposely killing your 0 attack minions to make room would make sense). However that's not possible because minions with no attack value shouldn't be able to attack. Charge does not override the ''can't attack text'' I don't see why Supercollider should overwrite the attack rule from 0 attack minions. Supercollider doesn't add any attack value.
Because it's like saying that because Betrayal can force enemy minions to damage each other that we should be able to choose to damage friendly characters with minion and Hero attacks. Supercollider and Betrayal both force an enemy minion to attack/deal damage which is why the logic stands. Charge doesn't override the "can't attack" text because Charge is a very specific application concerning rules of engagement concerning attacking. If giving something Charge that states clearly that it can't attack, the Charge is wasted completely. This isn't really a comparable logic, considering 0 Attack minions CAN attack. The only reason they can't normally attack is because they lack the offensive value required. Supercollider grants the offensive value in its own way. The minion having 0 Attack is irrelevant because 0 Attack minions being forced to attack versus 0 Attack minions being able to attack... two different situations. Being forced is different from having capabilities willed to you at your discretion.
Come visit my Card Emporium. Strange things, you will find inside...
Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.
Here's a definition, in case we actually need it for some reason.
fôrst - adjective
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Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.
OP do you not understand the word “forced” or something?
I think OP is forgetting that the minion with 0 Attack isn't trying to attack on its own. Next we're gonna hear that minions that can't attack shouldn't be able to damage other characters.
Come visit my Card Emporium. Strange things, you will find inside...
Come take the test, if you're daring. Feel free to show me your results in a message.
"Force" beats "can't."
This is why Supercollider also works on Ancient Watcher.
On a completely unrelated note, in MTG a 0 attack minion can attack, however no one would do that unless theres some wonky interactions or instants about to be played.
I think the animation does a good job of explaining how it works. It basically just knocks one minion into the other, "forcing" them to attack each other.
I think the logic stands for 2 simple reasons:
1. It specifically states "force" in the card text meaning it forces the interaction despite the fact that the card itself is not able to attack.
2. The whole theme of the weapon is that it basically hits a minion into another minion. The animation shows it as well. I do not see a problem with that at all. Supercollider hits one minion into another. Minion can't attack? No worries. I hit it and therefore the interaction works.
First of all, Supercollider being able to force a 0 attack minion to attack it's neighbour is fine by me. Secondly saying it is totally logical that a zero attack minion is being to attack it's neighbour just because the card uses the word force and that other interpretation which is for example by using intuition ,that a zero attack minion is unable to attack it's neighbour even though the card says otherwise like in the case of flark's boomzooka is borderline arrogant at the very least.
(Ninjaed.)
Shudderwock means driving a clown car in circles around your opponent while he swings his sword at you. Half the time he chops you and your car to pieces. The other half you park on his legs and 40 clowns come out one by one, trampling him to death.
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Your question is basically "should specific cards be able to function as exceptions to rules", and the answer is obviously "yes", given how many times exceptions have been allowed in the past
Balance, feel, and fun trumps logic every time.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.