I am trying to gauge the opinions of of fellow Hearthpwn users:
Do you think Spreading Plague is a balanced card (in standard and wild?) or does it offer too much power? Do Druids require this tool in their decks? More interestingly, is there a class that you wish would have received this card?
Trying to write up an article for a local gaming club, so I would prefer answers to be as objective as possible (personal biases are welcome though).
Yes it is fair. It punishes bad game play from players who either never learned to play back in vanilla and/or completely ignore the concept of overcomitting and/or playing into board clears and other detrimental effects.
For those who did play HS back then who are also players complaining about plague now I can almost guarantee you that those players also lost to cards like Flamestrike back in vanilla. Too many morons nowadays who think they can go extremely greedy with wide boards and never have to be punished. Plague forces players to play around overextension again.
TL;DR: Don't lazily play a board of 4-7 minions and you won't punished for bad gameplay. Or simply play Mossy Horror if you are midrange/control and learn to tech against the meta (So hard I know).
Do you feel that requiring tech cards in an aggressive deck are a healthy solution to Spreading Plague, or does this card, as CWSmith has put it, shut down that archetype?
Obviously the meta of the game impacts this answer a lot, so do you feel Spreading Plague has a place in nearly any meta?
Inb4 posts about how players were 'forced' to play wide boards, or act like they didn't know that most druids play plague so they build big boards before plague turns. ;)
I agree that punish cards are important to promote smarter gameplay; does the previous nerf to the card make it perfectly balanced, or is there room to keep it's functionality as a punish card while toning it down (to make it slightly less swingy at lower ranks)?
Do you feel that requiring tech cards in an aggressive deck are a healthy solution to Spreading Plague, or does this card, as CWSmith has put it, shut down that archetype?
Obviously the meta of the game impacts this answer a lot, so do you feel Spreading Plague has a place in nearly any meta?
All playstyles should have to play tech cards in any competitive meta, not just slow decks. This should be a given in competitive play. Aggro players who think that aggro shouldn't have to ever play tech cards are merely wanting the playstyle to maintain a status where they can get fast games and/or high win rates without intentionally building around the meta by including tech against cards such as plague.
Plague does not have a place in any meta. Against control decks or combo decks that do not have a similar win condition to recruit hunter (ie Sudden big minion burst damage) the card is mediocre or outright poor. Slow decks frequently have small boards and don't care if the opponent gets a few 1/5's that do nothing and apply 0 pressure.
For those who did play HS back then who are also players complaining about plague now I can almost guarantee you that those players also lost to cards like Flamestrike back in vanilla.
This card does feel like a Druid version of Flamestrike, I've never seen it put that way before. What do you think other class versions would look like?
To me, a more salient question is: Do we want to live in a world without it?
Personally, not no but hell no.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
By itself the card is fair, but resolve the only truly weakness of a class don't stop getting broken cards in every single expansion for years make the card insanely unfair.
Do you think that Spreading Plague is truly that patch, or do all of Druid's tools combined make it hard to discern the real strongest card of the deck(s)? Is the class's synergy what makes it so strong?
Generally decks that see spreading plague as an issue are likely to have a druid dead by the time they can play it.
You're not wrong! Perfect example: I have been playing a Bloodlust Shaman lately, and my strategy against Druids was to try and get minions on board and start beating in their face to then Bloodlust on turn 5 and win. If I couldn't do that, I basically prayed they didn't draw Plague in time to stop Bloodlust on 6 or 7, or whenever. Basically, against Druid with that Shaman deck I knew the longer the game went on, the slimmer my chances of winning got. So yeah, either I win before Plague can come down, or it comes down and I lose.
So by playing a deck that has no counter or tech against a card like Plague, it punishes that deck hard if I can't win quick. But the Zoo Locks and Odd Rogues I faced with my Bloodlust Shaman deck... Those matches made me incredibly happy!
With ramp, armor gain putting warrior to shame, insane draw power, cheat mana with weapon or Florist making the old Emperor looks like a peasant, one of best and cheap DK and UI this card is none even close to be fair.
That's not an easy question to answer. Spreading Plague is a huge amount of taunt/life gain. Potentially. It can be 6-mana, gain 35+ life. That's an absurdly strong best-case, but I guess Frost Nova can prevent even more damage. Frost Nova always goes away, though. This doesn't. Trades against the Scarab Beetles often won't be clean. However, it can be played around. Avoid playing small minions when you think Spreading Plague is a risk.
But context is also important. Druids have among the worst board clear of any class (Hunters are also trash at board clears), so this is one of the few things a Druid has to deal with a wide board. Warriors and Warlocks have great board clears, and decks tend to gain benefits from some amount of redundancy. A warrior having both Brawl and Warpath makes both of those better; they do different things and can fit each other's gaps at times. Some druids will run Starfall, but really, they don't have the tools.
However, druids have lots of other tools. They have among the best health-gain in Hearthstone through Branching Paths, Ferocious Howl, and Ultimate Infestation. They also have among the best card draw with Branching Paths, Ferocious Howl, Ultimate Infestation, and Nourish. They've also got probably the best ramping mechanics, to get bigger stuff into play then they ought to have by said turn, in cards like Nourish and Wild Growth (which is also mediocre card draw). They've got the only direct mana crystal ramp, but plenty of other decks have ways to cheat out big stuff. Anyhow, you'll notice that many cards are on multiple lists, which adds to the redundancy and consistency of Druids.
So druids have this three-leg stool. Card Draw, to get the stuff they need. Stall (of which Spreading Plague and all the armor gain are a large part), to live long enough to pull stuff off. Ramp, to enable the big stuff to happen sooner than an opponent might be ready for that. Each leg supports the rest, and the redundancy in each leg makes them stronger.
So Spreading Plague is worse for the fact that Druids can't deal with the boards after stalling them a little, but better from the fact that with huge armor gain, a little stall is often all you need to pull off the combo you drew. However, I'd probably say it's one of the less problematic cards in Druid. If everything a Druid had could be played around as well as Spreading Plague, I think the game would be in a better place.
That said, this card is still a massive amount of life, far more than I think it ought to be. If it and all the other sources of Scarab Beetle instead produced 1/4 instead of 1/5 taunts, I think they'd still be quite good. If after a 20% nerf, a card seems likely to be still played, doesn't that mean it's a little unfair?
But that's my biases. I think a great many things in Heathstone have gotten a bit too powerful. I mean, Carnivorous Cube shows up from Priest to Paladin to Hunter. Just. C'mon. Spreading Plague probably fits right in.
Spreading Plague would be fair if the rest of the druid class wasn't broken beyond belief (particularly in wild with all the OTKs). In combination with absurd armor gain, it provides massive amounts of stall so that they can have all the time in the world to pull off their Aviana/Kun bullshit. The one weakness that druids had was that you could overwhelm their board, and now that's not even possible. To those of you saying, "just play around it", you're talking about a class that can get 30+ armor with 3 cards and 11 mana. If you don't go heavy on board, you don't stand a chance at killing them fast enough for them to Star Aligner OTK or Maly or whatever else. And there's no way this is a "Blizzard that deals 1 damage". That's assuming that every single minion you have on board has 5+ attack which is unreasonable in both aggressive and midrange decks. Even with 3 minions on board, you've already blocked 15 damage from face by using Spreading Plague which is absurd.
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I honestly think something needs to get hit hard in druid as the OTK/combo decks are far too consistent in wild (I don't play enough standard to make a reasonable call there) They've got exclusive access to ramp, the most draw in the game (including specific tutors), the most armor gain in the game, a solid stall card, and absurd options for OTKs. If Blizzard nerfed one of these into the ground, it would balance druids out since right now they can do absolutely everything and have a good win rate. Spreading Plague is a great nerf candidate as it would make the class far more vulnerable to board-based decks, but Aviana-Kun interaction would be the optimal one to hit IMO. People will probably say "play Dirty Rat" but even with two of those in your deck, you can sometimes not draw into them or you'll hit one of the many other minions that druids have been running to lower the chance of getting hit by Rat.
It is perfectly fine as is. Against good players, Spreading Plague essentially reads: 6 mana, Freeze all enemy minions and deal 1 damage to them. It's a worse Blizzard.
I don't understand why this comment has been upvoted so much. It doesn't read that in the least bit. By your reasoning, good players only ever play minions with 5 attack or more which is ridiculous. Aside from popular decks like Odd Pally, Odd Rogue, Zoo and Even Shaman which have many minions under 5 attack, many midrange and control decks even have minions with lower attack. From experience I can say that at least 50% of the time I'm unable to clear the entire wall the turn it gets played and often I have to use spells and buffs to do so. Also, a good druid will often use Branching Paths after to give the scarabs even more damage so that they can wipe the enemy board. This is in no way a worse Blizzard. It's far better the majority of the time.
I am trying to gauge the opinions of of fellow Hearthpwn users:
Do you think Spreading Plague is a balanced card (in standard and wild?) or does it offer too much power? Do Druids require this tool in their decks? More interestingly, is there a class that you wish would have received this card?
Trying to write up an article for a local gaming club, so I would prefer answers to be as objective as possible (personal biases are welcome though).
Thanks!
It's a single card that completely shuts down certain play styles.
just learn to play around it
Yes it is fair. It punishes bad game play from players who either never learned to play back in vanilla and/or completely ignore the concept of overcomitting and/or playing into board clears and other detrimental effects.
For those who did play HS back then who are also players complaining about plague now I can almost guarantee you that those players also lost to cards like Flamestrike back in vanilla. Too many morons nowadays who think they can go extremely greedy with wide boards and never have to be punished. Plague forces players to play around overextension again.
TL;DR: Don't lazily play a board of 4-7 minions and you won't punished for bad gameplay. Or simply play Mossy Horror if you are midrange/control and learn to tech against the meta (So hard I know).
Do you feel that requiring tech cards in an aggressive deck are a healthy solution to Spreading Plague, or does this card, as CWSmith has put it, shut down that archetype?
Obviously the meta of the game impacts this answer a lot, so do you feel Spreading Plague has a place in nearly any meta?
Inb4 posts about how players were 'forced' to play wide boards, or act like they didn't know that most druids play plague so they build big boards before plague turns. ;)
I agree that punish cards are important to promote smarter gameplay; does the previous nerf to the card make it perfectly balanced, or is there room to keep it's functionality as a punish card while toning it down (to make it slightly less swingy at lower ranks)?
All playstyles should have to play tech cards in any competitive meta, not just slow decks. This should be a given in competitive play. Aggro players who think that aggro shouldn't have to ever play tech cards are merely wanting the playstyle to maintain a status where they can get fast games and/or high win rates without intentionally building around the meta by including tech against cards such as plague.
Plague does not have a place in any meta. Against control decks or combo decks that do not have a similar win condition to recruit hunter (ie Sudden big minion burst damage) the card is mediocre or outright poor. Slow decks frequently have small boards and don't care if the opponent gets a few 1/5's that do nothing and apply 0 pressure.
This card does feel like a Druid version of Flamestrike, I've never seen it put that way before. What do you think other class versions would look like?
To me, a more salient question is: Do we want to live in a world without it?
Personally, not no but hell no.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Generally decks that see spreading plague as an issue are likely to have a druid dead by the time they can play it.
By itself the card is fair, but resolve the only truly weakness of a class don't stop getting broken cards in every single expansion for years make the card insanely unfair.
Do you think that Spreading Plague is truly that patch, or do all of Druid's tools combined make it hard to discern the real strongest card of the deck(s)? Is the class's synergy what makes it so strong?
You're not wrong! Perfect example: I have been playing a Bloodlust Shaman lately, and my strategy against Druids was to try and get minions on board and start beating in their face to then Bloodlust on turn 5 and win. If I couldn't do that, I basically prayed they didn't draw Plague in time to stop Bloodlust on 6 or 7, or whenever. Basically, against Druid with that Shaman deck I knew the longer the game went on, the slimmer my chances of winning got. So yeah, either I win before Plague can come down, or it comes down and I lose.
So by playing a deck that has no counter or tech against a card like Plague, it punishes that deck hard if I can't win quick. But the Zoo Locks and Odd Rogues I faced with my Bloodlust Shaman deck... Those matches made me incredibly happy!
Fairer than ever thanks to recent nerf.
Dead but dreaming
Alone? Fair.
With ramp, armor gain putting warrior to shame, insane draw power, cheat mana with weapon or Florist making the old Emperor looks like a peasant, one of best and cheap DK and UI this card is none even close to be fair.
That's not an easy question to answer. Spreading Plague is a huge amount of taunt/life gain. Potentially. It can be 6-mana, gain 35+ life. That's an absurdly strong best-case, but I guess Frost Nova can prevent even more damage. Frost Nova always goes away, though. This doesn't. Trades against the Scarab Beetles often won't be clean. However, it can be played around. Avoid playing small minions when you think Spreading Plague is a risk.
But context is also important. Druids have among the worst board clear of any class (Hunters are also trash at board clears), so this is one of the few things a Druid has to deal with a wide board. Warriors and Warlocks have great board clears, and decks tend to gain benefits from some amount of redundancy. A warrior having both Brawl and Warpath makes both of those better; they do different things and can fit each other's gaps at times. Some druids will run Starfall, but really, they don't have the tools.
However, druids have lots of other tools. They have among the best health-gain in Hearthstone through Branching Paths, Ferocious Howl, and Ultimate Infestation. They also have among the best card draw with Branching Paths, Ferocious Howl, Ultimate Infestation, and Nourish. They've also got probably the best ramping mechanics, to get bigger stuff into play then they ought to have by said turn, in cards like Nourish and Wild Growth (which is also mediocre card draw). They've got the only direct mana crystal ramp, but plenty of other decks have ways to cheat out big stuff. Anyhow, you'll notice that many cards are on multiple lists, which adds to the redundancy and consistency of Druids.
So druids have this three-leg stool. Card Draw, to get the stuff they need. Stall (of which Spreading Plague and all the armor gain are a large part), to live long enough to pull stuff off. Ramp, to enable the big stuff to happen sooner than an opponent might be ready for that. Each leg supports the rest, and the redundancy in each leg makes them stronger.
So Spreading Plague is worse for the fact that Druids can't deal with the boards after stalling them a little, but better from the fact that with huge armor gain, a little stall is often all you need to pull off the combo you drew. However, I'd probably say it's one of the less problematic cards in Druid. If everything a Druid had could be played around as well as Spreading Plague, I think the game would be in a better place.
That said, this card is still a massive amount of life, far more than I think it ought to be. If it and all the other sources of Scarab Beetle instead produced 1/4 instead of 1/5 taunts, I think they'd still be quite good. If after a 20% nerf, a card seems likely to be still played, doesn't that mean it's a little unfair?
But that's my biases. I think a great many things in Heathstone have gotten a bit too powerful. I mean, Carnivorous Cube shows up from Priest to Paladin to Hunter. Just. C'mon. Spreading Plague probably fits right in.
Not at all. It only needs two scarabs to achieve average value for the mana cost. It's one of the worst designed cards in the entire game.
Spreading Plague would be fair if the rest of the druid class wasn't broken beyond belief (particularly in wild with all the OTKs). In combination with absurd armor gain, it provides massive amounts of stall so that they can have all the time in the world to pull off their Aviana/Kun bullshit. The one weakness that druids had was that you could overwhelm their board, and now that's not even possible. To those of you saying, "just play around it", you're talking about a class that can get 30+ armor with 3 cards and 11 mana. If you don't go heavy on board, you don't stand a chance at killing them fast enough for them to Star Aligner OTK or Maly or whatever else. And there's no way this is a "Blizzard that deals 1 damage". That's assuming that every single minion you have on board has 5+ attack which is unreasonable in both aggressive and midrange decks. Even with 3 minions on board, you've already blocked 15 damage from face by using Spreading Plague which is absurd.
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I honestly think something needs to get hit hard in druid as the OTK/combo decks are far too consistent in wild (I don't play enough standard to make a reasonable call there) They've got exclusive access to ramp, the most draw in the game (including specific tutors), the most armor gain in the game, a solid stall card, and absurd options for OTKs. If Blizzard nerfed one of these into the ground, it would balance druids out since right now they can do absolutely everything and have a good win rate. Spreading Plague is a great nerf candidate as it would make the class far more vulnerable to board-based decks, but Aviana-Kun interaction would be the optimal one to hit IMO. People will probably say "play Dirty Rat" but even with two of those in your deck, you can sometimes not draw into them or you'll hit one of the many other minions that druids have been running to lower the chance of getting hit by Rat.
I don't understand why this comment has been upvoted so much. It doesn't read that in the least bit. By your reasoning, good players only ever play minions with 5 attack or more which is ridiculous. Aside from popular decks like Odd Pally, Odd Rogue, Zoo and Even Shaman which have many minions under 5 attack, many midrange and control decks even have minions with lower attack. From experience I can say that at least 50% of the time I'm unable to clear the entire wall the turn it gets played and often I have to use spells and buffs to do so. Also, a good druid will often use Branching Paths after to give the scarabs even more damage so that they can wipe the enemy board. This is in no way a worse Blizzard. It's far better the majority of the time.