I see people complaining about the decks being played in casual all the time. But no one seems to have a possible solution method. I rarely play casual, so I couldn't care less tbh. But shouldn't you be able to play what you want in a mode called "casual"?
You can play with your homebrew decks and you can also try a tier 1 deck without sweating it up in Ranked.
I, personally, try my shitty decks in ranked because beating a rank 24 guy who is playing with basic cards is not fun for me. I'm not judging anyone, it's just my personal opinion.
So, my question is: Why is casual problematic for you? And how would you fix it?
The main issue imo is that there is still lots of incentive to win in casual (quests, 10g for 3 wins). When people are trying to win, they will play decks that win. Perhaps taking some of that away from casual could help the one problem, but i don't think it would be worth it overall.
I like to try out my fun homebrews in casual, it's just annoying when I always que into tier 1 netdeck trash by people just trying to complete their quests. There really isnt a casual mode anymore tbh. There's ranked and unranked, but both have the same decks and the same meta. Everyone is trihard, even in casual which kind of sucks.
Those who whine about casual mode, are the same ones that whine about anything and everything in the game.
I love the game, praise many of its aspects, and also criticize things that require criticism.
One of those criticisms is the over-representation of Tier 1 & Tier 2 decks in casual.
Still, there really doesn't seem to be a great solution that I've come up with or seen from others, despite the plethora of "Casual = Ladder" type threads (and there are lots of them, all the time). Ultimately, Team 5 is on record stating they never had any intention of making Casual a non-competitive play mode so it's never going to be anything more than it currently is. Sad, but true.
You and I have absolutely 0 authority to decide what people should or shouldn’t and can and cannot play. Even in Casual.
To state the obvious: It is not called Casual because Tier 1-2 decks are forbidden but because there are no end-of-month-reward.
Well, there are two solutions that are, in general, pushed forward by the community:
Bans in casual. Whether you can ban a class, or 3 cards, increasing queue times to strong decks would really take the quickness out of their profitting. The wonderful thing about core cards is that without them, decks don't work, and most players know which ones to point at.
Removing the gold from casual. This one is trickier, because lots of new players need casual to gain gold. My step-brother runs into Tier-1 decks at Rank 25, he literally can't win in ranked. This means he must go to casual to get his 10g and actually enjoy the game. Creating a goldless mode fits inside this solution far more strongly and doesn't sound that hard to do.
[Locked - Blizzard only]Ignoring the issue since it isn't breaking the game in half. :P
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Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Those who netdeck in casual are either terrible players with ladder anxiety that are afraid of losing their 14 rank stars, or just douchebags that want to ruin the other's fun. So there is no solution other than incentives. I am too bored to retype everything so this is what i proposed
Just remove the ability to farm gold in casual, that way only people who want to experiment with homebrews and assholes will play the format. At least it gets rid of the gold farmers and bots.
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Those who netdeck in casual are either terrible players with ladder anxiety that are afraid of losing their 14 rank stars, or just douchebags that want to ruin the other's fun. So there is no solution other than incentives. I am too bored to retype everything so this is what i proposed
I've read what you've written but you have to remember that some people get VERY salty over losing. Even if you have a great time playing an amazing match, your opponent might be so salty that he might not say "gg" and send you that gold.
Personally, I would love to see the 10-gold-per-3-wins removed from casual. Remove ALL incentive to farm gold. Daily quests would be the ONLY way gold can be earned in casual.
The argument against that is that it would be difficult for new players to earn gold, but I disagree. The people playing netdecks in casual to farm gold would now have no incentive to play casual. The netdeckers would quickly advance out of the lower ranks with their tier1 decks and thus not be a problem to the new players. The only netdeckers left in ranks 20-25 would be people that aren't very good to begin with or are just learning how to pilot the netdecks... thus giving new players a better chance.
Casual would still exist for all of the reasons it was meant to exist: 1) learn the ropes, 2) experimentation, & 3) daily quests for gold
As for people with ladder anxiety... nothing ventured, nothing gained. If you are too scared to lose stars then you don't deserve free gold for beating up newbies.
I'm casual but have tier one decks. I use them to complete quests because I might only play 2-3 games a day. Do i feel bad sometimes when I'm stomping on some poor kid playing yetis? Yes. Yes I do. The only solution I could think of is like an mmr system for decks so some poor new guy doesn't get matched with op decks more then once. Like after 1 stomping or something he is guaranteed someone with an equal deck. But I have no idea how you would do that. I'm not trying to ruin anyone's fun nor am I likely to lose my sexy rank 10 but just don't have the games to mess around with. Also running into someone in casual who way outranks you is a metaphor for life.
I see people complaining about the decks being played in casual all the time. But no one seems to have a possible solution method.
I've proposed options many many times. Just for starters,
Class bans
Card bans
Custom game options
Higher starting health/armor
Higher starting mana
Custom turn length
Custom starting hand size
Different starting deck size restriction
Card rarity restriction
Remove gold/quest reward (hell, even make an entirely new game mode that doesn't reward gold/quests and call it "casual" and rename current casual to "unranked")
But shouldn't you be able to play what you want in a mode called "casual"?
There's an analogy I like to make that I think is pretty fitting. Imagine you and some friends want to go down to the local rec center and play a friendly game of sportsball. You're all somewhat competitive and will actually try to win, but at the end of the day, it's just for the fun and comraderie. Guess who's there. The #1 ranked professional sportsball team. The fuck? You just want to screw around and have fun, this is bullshit. Get your pro teams out of casual rec center! "ITS JUST FOR FUN, IT DOESN'T COUNT, SO WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING?" they say.
Because a lot of people's idea of casual and having fun is to have an experience that's different than ranked. Yes, you should be able to play what you want. However, for me personally I want to have a difference experience in casual. Last month, I tracked casual games over a ~2 week and 235 game period. It was consistently around 45% netdecks. That's not good.
You can play with your homebrew decks and you can also try a tier 1 deck without sweating it up in Ranked.
You can also do this risk-free at ranked ladder floors. This actually is exactly why ladder floors exist (so you don't have to worry about being forced to play the strongest deck constantly in ranked or losing progress by experimenting).
So, my question is: Why is casual problematic for you? And how would you fix it?
Already stated how I'd fix it. It's problematic because I want an experience that is different than ladder (losing on turn 5 to aggro who only goes face, in casual, is not a fun experience). When I've gone to add these players after a loss to ask them why they're playing a tier 1 netdeck in casual, most of the time it's because "I had a quest." Hint: there are NO quests that require you to play a tier 1 netdeck in casual. So I'd start there, by removing quest/gold rewards in casual.
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Funny that, your sports analogy is exactly the one I use to describe my sometime frustration with Casual.
I've often suggested the way to minimise the frustration is to remove "win X" quests altogether or at least make them not count in Casual. On top of that, disable the gold for wins in Casual. Most other games have rewards for menial tasks such as daily logins instead.
I like to try out my fun homebrews in casual, it's just annoying when I always que into tier 1 netdeck trash by people just trying to complete their quests. There really isnt a casual mode anymore tbh. There's ranked and unranked, but both have the same decks and the same meta. Everyone is trihard, even in casual which kind of sucks.
If you wanna try out homebrews playing against tier one decks is actually a good thing, provided you wanna test how good the deck actually is.
I'm not usually testing them for viability in casual, more just want to have fun. Do people play this game for fun anymore? I have plenty of ladder viable decks already (maly druid, zoolock, deathrattle hunter, machathun priest, to name a few) and I don't have any interest in making my overload shaman competitively viable.
The problem here is subjective. Some could say that there's no problem AT ALL.
Casual lets you play whatever you want, without penalizing you for it. I don't like ranked. But if I want to try some tier 1 deck (maybe because I love the cards in the deck and I love to win) why shouldn't I do it?
Some people would establish a police state to force others to wear the color they prefer.It's stupid.
Blizzard should make a special stream lessons or youtube videos in which they explain the the only way hs should be played is with supa dupa 1000 IQ control/combo homebrewed decks and 30 minutes long match is a minimum time period that proves you're not braindead blah blah something etc.
Casual lets you play whatever you want, without penalizing you for it. I don't like ranked. But if I want to try some tier 1 deck (maybe because I love the cards in the deck and I love to win) why shouldn't I do it?
The same exact thing can be said about Ranked floors.
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The issue is that people have different definitions of what Casual means and play Casual mode for many different reasons.
There are solutions proposed and I do like many of them. This could even be a testing ground for implementing tournament modes with similar restrictions or bans.
Why do I play Casual mode? I don't play often in Casual, but often it's because there is an annoying but rewarding daily quest and I don't feel like remaking one of my decks to complete it easier. Example - the murloc quest. I dont have any murloc decks currently and so I would do that in Casual instead.
While I agree that you should play whatever you want in Casual mode, the question remains why do you do so?
If your answer is to farm gold and annoy new players, well that's a terrible reason to play your tier 1 decks against starting players or experimental decks. I wouldnt stop you from doing that, but certainly don't respect your reasons.
If your answer is to complete a daily quest, well thats acceptable and makes sense.
If your answer is I hate playing against Tier 1 decks and losing. According to many people, you have just as many net decks in Casual, so it doesn't really change anything.
The thing is, there are many ways that Blizzard could change it to discourage net deckers from playing in Casual. They have no incentive to do so, UNLESS they start losing a large portion of new players due to this issue. Only then, will they find a way to fix it.
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I see people complaining about the decks being played in casual all the time. But no one seems to have a possible solution method. I rarely play casual, so I couldn't care less tbh. But shouldn't you be able to play what you want in a mode called "casual"?
You can play with your homebrew decks and you can also try a tier 1 deck without sweating it up in Ranked.
I, personally, try my shitty decks in ranked because beating a rank 24 guy who is playing with basic cards is not fun for me. I'm not judging anyone, it's just my personal opinion.
So, my question is: Why is casual problematic for you? And how would you fix it?
The main issue imo is that there is still lots of incentive to win in casual (quests, 10g for 3 wins). When people are trying to win, they will play decks that win. Perhaps taking some of that away from casual could help the one problem, but i don't think it would be worth it overall.
Those who whine about casual mode, are the same ones that whine about anything and everything in the game.
I like to try out my fun homebrews in casual, it's just annoying when I always que into tier 1 netdeck trash by people just trying to complete their quests. There really isnt a casual mode anymore tbh. There's ranked and unranked, but both have the same decks and the same meta. Everyone is trihard, even in casual which kind of sucks.
I think it's trashy to play Ranked decks in Casual. Why do u play decks that progress in a mode that doesn't need progression?
It is like football. Do you watch famous players like Zidane, Ronaldinho,... playing too focus in a friendly match? Of course not!
You and I have absolutely 0 authority to decide what people should or shouldn’t and can and cannot play. Even in Casual.
To state the obvious: It is not called Casual because Tier 1-2 decks are forbidden but because there are no end-of-month-reward.
Well, there are two solutions that are, in general, pushed forward by the community:
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Those who netdeck in casual are either terrible players with ladder anxiety that are afraid of losing their 14 rank stars, or just douchebags that want to ruin the other's fun. So there is no solution other than incentives. I am too bored to retype everything so this is what i proposed
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/220016-a-simple-solution-to-suppress-douchebaggery
Just remove the ability to farm gold in casual, that way only people who want to experiment with homebrews and assholes will play the format. At least it gets rid of the gold farmers and bots.
I've read what you've written but you have to remember that some people get VERY salty over losing. Even if you have a great time playing an amazing match, your opponent might be so salty that he might not say "gg" and send you that gold.
Personally, I would love to see the 10-gold-per-3-wins removed from casual. Remove ALL incentive to farm gold. Daily quests would be the ONLY way gold can be earned in casual.
The argument against that is that it would be difficult for new players to earn gold, but I disagree. The people playing netdecks in casual to farm gold would now have no incentive to play casual. The netdeckers would quickly advance out of the lower ranks with their tier1 decks and thus not be a problem to the new players. The only netdeckers left in ranks 20-25 would be people that aren't very good to begin with or are just learning how to pilot the netdecks... thus giving new players a better chance.
Casual would still exist for all of the reasons it was meant to exist: 1) learn the ropes, 2) experimentation, & 3) daily quests for gold
As for people with ladder anxiety... nothing ventured, nothing gained. If you are too scared to lose stars then you don't deserve free gold for beating up newbies.
I'm casual but have tier one decks. I use them to complete quests because I might only play 2-3 games a day. Do i feel bad sometimes when I'm stomping on some poor kid playing yetis? Yes. Yes I do. The only solution I could think of is like an mmr system for decks so some poor new guy doesn't get matched with op decks more then once. Like after 1 stomping or something he is guaranteed someone with an equal deck. But I have no idea how you would do that. I'm not trying to ruin anyone's fun nor am I likely to lose my sexy rank 10 but just don't have the games to mess around with. Also running into someone in casual who way outranks you is a metaphor for life.
I've proposed options many many times. Just for starters,
There's an analogy I like to make that I think is pretty fitting. Imagine you and some friends want to go down to the local rec center and play a friendly game of sportsball. You're all somewhat competitive and will actually try to win, but at the end of the day, it's just for the fun and comraderie. Guess who's there. The #1 ranked professional sportsball team. The fuck? You just want to screw around and have fun, this is bullshit. Get your pro teams out of casual rec center! "ITS JUST FOR FUN, IT DOESN'T COUNT, SO WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING?" they say.
Because a lot of people's idea of casual and having fun is to have an experience that's different than ranked. Yes, you should be able to play what you want. However, for me personally I want to have a difference experience in casual. Last month, I tracked casual games over a ~2 week and 235 game period. It was consistently around 45% netdecks. That's not good.
You can also do this risk-free at ranked ladder floors. This actually is exactly why ladder floors exist (so you don't have to worry about being forced to play the strongest deck constantly in ranked or losing progress by experimenting).
Already stated how I'd fix it. It's problematic because I want an experience that is different than ladder (losing on turn 5 to aggro who only goes face, in casual, is not a fun experience). When I've gone to add these players after a loss to ask them why they're playing a tier 1 netdeck in casual, most of the time it's because "I had a quest." Hint: there are NO quests that require you to play a tier 1 netdeck in casual. So I'd start there, by removing quest/gold rewards in casual.
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Funny that, your sports analogy is exactly the one I use to describe my sometime frustration with Casual.
I've often suggested the way to minimise the frustration is to remove "win X" quests altogether or at least make them not count in Casual. On top of that, disable the gold for wins in Casual. Most other games have rewards for menial tasks such as daily logins instead.
I'm not usually testing them for viability in casual, more just want to have fun. Do people play this game for fun anymore? I have plenty of ladder viable decks already (maly druid, zoolock, deathrattle hunter, machathun priest, to name a few) and I don't have any interest in making my overload shaman competitively viable.
The problem here is subjective. Some could say that there's no problem AT ALL.
Casual lets you play whatever you want, without penalizing you for it. I don't like ranked. But if I want to try some tier 1 deck (maybe because I love the cards in the deck and I love to win) why shouldn't I do it?
Some people would establish a police state to force others to wear the color they prefer. It's stupid.
Solution for everybody who cries about not all players playing clown decks in casual:
Just don't play it!
Instead just play your clown decks against clown decks of your friends. If you have some...
The same exact thing can be said about Ranked floors.
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The issue is that people have different definitions of what Casual means and play Casual mode for many different reasons.
There are solutions proposed and I do like many of them. This could even be a testing ground for implementing tournament modes with similar restrictions or bans.
Why do I play Casual mode? I don't play often in Casual, but often it's because there is an annoying but rewarding daily quest and I don't feel like remaking one of my decks to complete it easier. Example - the murloc quest. I dont have any murloc decks currently and so I would do that in Casual instead.
While I agree that you should play whatever you want in Casual mode, the question remains why do you do so?
If your answer is to farm gold and annoy new players, well that's a terrible reason to play your tier 1 decks against starting players or experimental decks. I wouldnt stop you from doing that, but certainly don't respect your reasons.
If your answer is to complete a daily quest, well thats acceptable and makes sense.
If your answer is I hate playing against Tier 1 decks and losing. According to many people, you have just as many net decks in Casual, so it doesn't really change anything.
The thing is, there are many ways that Blizzard could change it to discourage net deckers from playing in Casual. They have no incentive to do so, UNLESS they start losing a large portion of new players due to this issue. Only then, will they find a way to fix it.