Another issue that people seem to be ignoring is that in a ‘meme deck only’ Casual where successful decks are banned it would be extremely frustrating to have your homebrew deck banned because it becomes successful, and automatically being deemed as ‘tryhard and unfun’. For an example, look at Togwaggle Druid: originally a meme deck, with two meme legendaries, is now called ‘cancer’ for being too successful. Some people just want to have the fun of playing Togwaggle Druid without having to worry about losing ranks! If anything should be done, is add a third mode. Taking Casual as it is now away would hurt a lot of people’s gameplay experience.
-Rename the current "Casual" to "Unranked." This is what the equivalent mode is called in other blizzard games.
-Make a 3rd mode called "Casual" which does not give gold for wins and doesn't have mmr.
-Don't change any cards, what is a "fun" card design is too subjective. They have tavern brawls for crazy rules already.
There are some problems with this though:
-Will the new mode really be that different from the current "Casual" mode?
-This would be the 5th and possibly 6th mode for normal hearthstone. Wild Casual is played very little as it is. I am not sure about Standard Casual, but Blizzard should know if it makes sense to split that playerbase into 2.
-Would there be enough interrest in a playmode like that?
-If the whole point is to pull off a meme combo, it can also be done vs the innkeeper.
-For custom gameplay experiences, there are always the friendly matches, which should be encouraged imo.
Yes Blizzard could add a new game mode but what's the guarantee that there won't a new set of people who will be "unsatisfied" with that new mode ?
Off meta decks like Tess Rogue, Mecha'thun priest/warlock/druid, heal paladin etc. can be played on ladder with winrates close 50%. People who have problems with Casual are playing absolute bottom of the barrel decks and still hopes that they will maintain a decent winrate.
I think the problem is many people don't have enough collection to build either strong or meme decks. They can only afford some amalgam of random cards put together and it feels super bad to be stomped over and over again by powerful combos and synergies that you have no way to play against.
I would make a game mode where there would a restriction based on the amount of dust required to build your deck.
People with 15k dust decks will play against other people with 15k dust deck,
People with 10k dust decks will play against other people with 10k dust deck,
People with 5k dust decks will play with other people with around 5k dust decks and so on !
That is what match making in casual is supposed to do anyway but it does a poor job at it.
So then, my 15k dust meme deck will still get matched against Tier 1 netdecks? New players learning the game will still get matched against Healzoo? I don't think this is a good solution at all.
edit: looking at VS, the full decklist for Healzoo is 4800. You could easily replace both legendaries (Solarium and Keleseth) and the deck would still be quite strong, due to Warlock's draw engine and self damaging ability. That makes a very strong deck that costs merely 1200 dust. No fucking way should new players get matched against that in Casual because of the deck's dust cost. Even still, can you imagine being new, finally saving up enough dust to craft a big flashy legendary, then getting paired with the full on Healzoo deck?
If you have enough dust but knowingly refuse to craft a good deck, in order to save for some "flashy legendary" then you should assume that you are not going to have a good win rate.
This is pretty illogical. A new player should be punished because they didn't craft Healzoo but instead made a cool card they saw someone playing?
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So then, my 15k dust meme deck will still get matched against Tier 1 netdecks? New players learning the game will still get matched against Healzoo? I don't think this is a good solution at all.
What is this 15K dust meme deck that you talk of ? Can you please give a decklist ?
So then, my 15k dust meme deck will still get matched against Tier 1 netdecks? New players learning the game will still get matched against Healzoo? I don't think this is a good solution at all.
What is this 15K dust meme deck that you talk of ? Can you please give a decklist ?
Sure thing. This is my most recent creation. It's apparently 17k dust. It's absolutely not ladder viable. Just a bunch of cards that didn't see much play that I wanted to screw around with.
It wins sometimes. Most wins come through pure value. I may be almost dead but the opponent will have run out of cards and board. Meanwhile, I have a full board, full hand, and ways to continue to generate value.
-Rename the current "Casual" to "Unranked." This is what the equivalent mode is called in other blizzard games.
-Make a 3rd mode called "Casual" which does not give gold for wins and doesn't have mmr.
-Don't change any cards, what is a "fun" card design is too subjective. They have tavern brawls for crazy rules already.
There are some problems with this though:
-Will the new mode really be that different from the current "Casual" mode?
-This would be the 5th and possibly 6th mode for normal hearthstone. Wild Casual is played very little as it is. I am not sure about Standard Casual, but Blizzard should know if it makes sense to split that playerbase into 2.
-Would there be enough interrest in a playmode like that?
-If the whole point is to pull off a meme combo, it can also be done vs the innkeeper.
-For custom gameplay experiences, there are always the friendly matches, which should be encouraged imo.
Yes Blizzard could add a new game mode but what's the guarantee that there won't a new set of people who will be "unsatisfied" with that new mode ?
Off meta decks like Tess Rogue, Mecha'thun priest/warlock/druid, heal paladin etc. can be played on ladder with winrates close 50%. People who have problems with Casual are playing absolute bottom of the barrel decks and still hopes that they will maintain a decent winrate.
I think the problem is many people don't have enough collection to build either strong or meme decks. They can only afford some amalgam of random cards put together and it feels super bad to be stomped over and over again by powerful combos and synergies that you have no way to play against.
I would make a game mode where there would a restriction based on the amount of dust required to build your deck.
People with 15k dust decks will play against other people with 15k dust deck,
People with 10k dust decks will play against other people with 10k dust deck,
People with 5k dust decks will play with other people with around 5k dust decks and so on !
That is what match making in casual is supposed to do anyway but it does a poor job at it.
So then, my 15k dust meme deck will still get matched against Tier 1 netdecks? New players learning the game will still get matched against Healzoo? I don't think this is a good solution at all.
edit: looking at VS, the full decklist for Healzoo is 4800. You could easily replace both legendaries (Solarium and Keleseth) and the deck would still be quite strong, due to Warlock's draw engine and self damaging ability. That makes a very strong deck that costs merely 1200 dust. No fucking way should new players get matched against that in Casual because of the deck's dust cost. Even still, can you imagine being new, finally saving up enough dust to craft a big flashy legendary, then getting paired with the full on Healzoo deck?
If you have enough dust but knowingly refuse to craft a good deck, in order to save for some "flashy legendary" then you should assume that you are not going to have a good win rate.
This is pretty illogical. A new player should be punished because they didn't craft Healzoo but instead made a cool card they saw someone playing?
It's not a punish because that player made a the decision that said : "I don't care about win rate! I want to have fun (well, fun from his perspective at least) ".
That being said he ought to accept the fact that his decision negatively influenced his win rate .
You can't have your cake and eat it at the same time !
-Rename the current "Casual" to "Unranked." This is what the equivalent mode is called in other blizzard games.
-Make a 3rd mode called "Casual" which does not give gold for wins and doesn't have mmr.
-Don't change any cards, what is a "fun" card design is too subjective. They have tavern brawls for crazy rules already.
There are some problems with this though:
-Will the new mode really be that different from the current "Casual" mode?
-This would be the 5th and possibly 6th mode for normal hearthstone. Wild Casual is played very little as it is. I am not sure about Standard Casual, but Blizzard should know if it makes sense to split that playerbase into 2.
-Would there be enough interrest in a playmode like that?
-If the whole point is to pull off a meme combo, it can also be done vs the innkeeper.
-For custom gameplay experiences, there are always the friendly matches, which should be encouraged imo.
Yes Blizzard could add a new game mode but what's the guarantee that there won't a new set of people who will be "unsatisfied" with that new mode ?
Off meta decks like Tess Rogue, Mecha'thun priest/warlock/druid, heal paladin etc. can be played on ladder with winrates close 50%. People who have problems with Casual are playing absolute bottom of the barrel decks and still hopes that they will maintain a decent winrate.
I think the problem is many people don't have enough collection to build either strong or meme decks. They can only afford some amalgam of random cards put together and it feels super bad to be stomped over and over again by powerful combos and synergies that you have no way to play against.
I would make a game mode where there would a restriction based on the amount of dust required to build your deck.
People with 15k dust decks will play against other people with 15k dust deck,
People with 10k dust decks will play against other people with 10k dust deck,
People with 5k dust decks will play with other people with around 5k dust decks and so on !
That is what match making in casual is supposed to do anyway but it does a poor job at it.
So then, my 15k dust meme deck will still get matched against Tier 1 netdecks? New players learning the game will still get matched against Healzoo? I don't think this is a good solution at all.
edit: looking at VS, the full decklist for Healzoo is 4800. You could easily replace both legendaries (Solarium and Keleseth) and the deck would still be quite strong, due to Warlock's draw engine and self damaging ability. That makes a very strong deck that costs merely 1200 dust. No fucking way should new players get matched against that in Casual because of the deck's dust cost. Even still, can you imagine being new, finally saving up enough dust to craft a big flashy legendary, then getting paired with the full on Healzoo deck?
If you have enough dust but knowingly refuse to craft a good deck, in order to save for some "flashy legendary" then you should assume that you are not going to have a good win rate.
This is pretty illogical. A new player should be punished because they didn't craft Healzoo but instead made a cool card they saw someone playing?
It's not a punish because that player made a the decision that said : "I don't care about win rate! I want to have fun (well, fun from his perspective at least) ".
That being said he ought to accept the fact that his decision negatively influenced his win rate .
You can't have your cake and eat it at the same time !
This assumes every new player has the knowledge of what every top tier deck is.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
I am used to oldschool asian MMOrpgs where if you have put some sweet dough into it you could literally fuck the whole game sideways, the amount of power you had over plebs was palpable.
In HS spending cash just puts you on the same level as most of the players in ranked. Casual is the only place where you can flex the power of money by crushing the evercrying f2p leeches
So then, my 15k dust meme deck will still get matched against Tier 1 netdecks? New players learning the game will still get matched against Healzoo? I don't think this is a good solution at all.
What is this 15K dust meme deck that you talk of ? Can you please give a decklist ?
Sure thing. This is my most recent creation. It's apparently 17k dust. It's absolutely not ladder viable. Just a bunch of cards that didn't see much play that I wanted to screw around with.
It wins sometimes. Most wins come through pure value. I may be almost dead but the opponent will have run out of cards and board. Meanwhile, I have a full board, full hand, and ways to continue to generate value.
Not gonna lie, that looks like a pretty bad deck even with meme deck standards.
I understand now why you want a no netdeck Casual mode. Hopefully Blizzard will add a custom game mode.
So then, my 15k dust meme deck will still get matched against Tier 1 netdecks? New players learning the game will still get matched against Healzoo? I don't think this is a good solution at all.
What is this 15K dust meme deck that you talk of ? Can you please give a decklist ?
Sure thing. This is my most recent creation. It's apparently 17k dust. It's absolutely not ladder viable. Just a bunch of cards that didn't see much play that I wanted to screw around with.
It wins sometimes. Most wins come through pure value. I may be almost dead but the opponent will have run out of cards and board. Meanwhile, I have a full board, full hand, and ways to continue to generate value.
Not gonna lie, that looks like a pretty bad deck even with meme deck standards.
I understand now why you want a no netdeck Casual mode. Hopefully Blizzard will add a custom game mode.
not gonna lie, I'm not denying it's a bad deck. In fact, that's what I said in the very post you quoted.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
If it were up to me I’d remove the insentive for winning in casual by taking away quests from that mode. However that would harm new players which blizzard definitely won’t do. A solution would be to reward more gold for complting quests in ranked. This would pursuade a lot of those with tier 1 decks not to bother with casual.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How to become ∞ at arena: - practice, practice, win, dominate, profit.
The best solution I can think of to fix Casual without harming it at all would be to make it so you have to create a new deck before entering a game in that mode like Brawl does, as well as removing the option to copy and paste a deck. That way it'll give less incentive for netdeckers to play the mode because they are probably too lazy to even bother, as well as an give an incentive to experiment as you'll be looking through the cards to pick what you think is best, that way even the standard meta decks you see on ladder could have some different tech options or even a completely different shell.
It would be really fun if they made cards specific to Casual. LIke, if each class got a single card that was way too good for the mana cost but wasn't aggro or insanely swingy. Give each class a 1-mana 'do something really powerful' and make a couple neutral minions that do cool defensive stuff or just something wacky that wouldn't be good for ladder.....
and bring back pre-nerf yogg for casual.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
A solution would be to reward more gold for complting quests in ranked. This would pursuade a lot of those with tier 1 decks not to bother with casual.
Honestly that is a good idea imo. The key isn't to take rewards away, but as you said to give more of them for ranked play to change how some people play. Plus ranked rewards are pretty terrible for a mode you are encourage to grind endlessly each month.
Another issue that people seem to be ignoring is that in a ‘meme deck only’ Casual where successful decks are banned it would be extremely frustrating to have your homebrew deck banned because it becomes successful, and automatically being deemed as ‘tryhard and unfun’. For an example, look at Togwaggle Druid: originally a meme deck, with two meme legendaries, is now called ‘cancer’ for being too successful. Some people just want to have the fun of playing Togwaggle Druid without having to worry about losing ranks! If anything should be done, is add a third mode. Taking Casual as it is now away would hurt a lot of people’s gameplay experience.
This is pretty illogical. A new player should be punished because they didn't craft Healzoo but instead made a cool card they saw someone playing?
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What is this 15K dust meme deck that you talk of ? Can you please give a decklist ?
Sure thing. This is my most recent creation. It's apparently 17k dust. It's absolutely not ladder viable. Just a bunch of cards that didn't see much play that I wanted to screw around with.
It wins sometimes. Most wins come through pure value. I may be almost dead but the opponent will have run out of cards and board. Meanwhile, I have a full board, full hand, and ways to continue to generate value.
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Also, re this from Lyra:
on the subject of "It's a different mode, it should offer a different experience." This quote from Iskar in a recent interview seems to agree with me.
On the topic of Wild vs Standard:
Taken from here - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/301191493?t=03h58m05s
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It's not a punish because that player made a the decision that said : "I don't care about win rate! I want to have fun (well, fun from his perspective at least) ".
That being said he ought to accept the fact that his decision negatively influenced his win rate .
You can't have your cake and eat it at the same time !
This assumes every new player has the knowledge of what every top tier deck is.
Kaladin's RoS Set Review
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I am used to oldschool asian MMOrpgs where if you have put some sweet dough into it you could literally fuck the whole game sideways, the amount of power you had over plebs was palpable.
In HS spending cash just puts you on the same level as most of the players in ranked. Casual is the only place where you can flex the power of money by crushing the evercrying f2p leeches
/s
I played Keleseth five times and lost to Maly Druid.
Don't tell me Casual is fine.
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Casual is fine, for what purports to be.
Not gonna lie, that looks like a pretty bad deck even with meme deck standards.
I understand now why you want a no netdeck Casual mode. Hopefully Blizzard will add a custom game mode.
not gonna lie, I'm not denying it's a bad deck. In fact, that's what I said in the very post you quoted.
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If it were up to me I’d remove the insentive for winning in casual by taking away quests from that mode. However that would harm new players which blizzard definitely won’t do. A solution would be to reward more gold for complting quests in ranked. This would pursuade a lot of those with tier 1 decks not to bother with casual.
How to become ∞ at arena: - practice, practice, win, dominate, profit.
20K G's saved up every new expansion.
The best solution I can think of to fix Casual without harming it at all would be to make it so you have to create a new deck before entering a game in that mode like Brawl does, as well as removing the option to copy and paste a deck. That way it'll give less incentive for netdeckers to play the mode because they are probably too lazy to even bother, as well as an give an incentive to experiment as you'll be looking through the cards to pick what you think is best, that way even the standard meta decks you see on ladder could have some different tech options or even a completely different shell.
It would be really fun if they made cards specific to Casual. LIke, if each class got a single card that was way too good for the mana cost but wasn't aggro or insanely swingy. Give each class a 1-mana 'do something really powerful' and make a couple neutral minions that do cool defensive stuff or just something wacky that wouldn't be good for ladder.....
and bring back pre-nerf yogg for casual.
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Honestly that is a good idea imo. The key isn't to take rewards away, but as you said to give more of them for ranked play to change how some people play. Plus ranked rewards are pretty terrible for a mode you are encourage to grind endlessly each month.
Casual is place to have fun. If it is a sub-mode for Rank, let's rename it "Unranked"!
You way of having fun is not THE way of having fun. Different people have fun in different ways, that include playing netdecks.
Couldn't have put it any better!
There is already a dedicated place for people to play netdecks and not worry about rank.
There is not a dedicated place for people to play homebrew decks.
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