So i was wondering since Shudderwock Shaman became a thing in Hearthstone who actually likes this semi OTK combo deck. Personally i absolutely hate it since it´s just like exodia mage : Draw ur board clears and play ur combo cards just to spam 1 Mana Shudderwock´s with 20 Battlecrys who freeze,heal you and damage the opponnent while also buffing ur minions to oblivion. The gameplay is not interactive and leads almost always to a nearly unwinable winrate if u play Control.
Don´t get me wrong, i don´t say that combo decks shouldn´t exist... but Shudderwock just isn´t healthy for the game because of the non interactive gameplay this deck has... just like exodia mage.
Also another question : Would u like Dirty Rat to be moved to standard?
Yes, i love those type of decks, combo / exodia / otk / kingsbane mill, patron warrior, you name it, those are the most fun and enjoyable decks when stars align.
As fun as it is to play Shudderwock Shaman, it's very much reminiscent of the old Patron Warrior, which everyone knew as a rather un-interactive deck to play against. Despite it's <50% winrate on hsreplay, it's very damned close to it, and is easily the new control killer should the Shudderwock player reach the combo in time.
Much like old Patron Warrior, I very much see a future where Shudderwock is nerfed.
Those decks have been around since Cthun and Yogg... Most of them revolve around one single card so I think they are fair for both players... It's all RNG
I dont mind shuddrewock, mainly because its a hard combo that doesnt always go off like the person running the deck wants. I would like something like Dirty Rat to tech against combo decks though.
Don´t get me wrong, i don´t say that combo decks shouldn´t exist... but Shudderwock just isn´t healthy for the game because of the non interactive gameplay this deck has... just like exodia mage.
You seem to be confused. Exodia Mage never lacked interaction. Dirty Rat was in Standard while that deck existed, Eater of Secrets was in Standard while that deck existed and so on. The cards that interacted with that strategy were present in Standard while the deck was present in Standard.
No you seem to be confused, those hard counters don't make that deck interactive.
The only thing I dislike is that only Warlock and Mage got cards that can deal with cards like Shudderwock at least somewhat. Demonic Project and Research Project at least have a shot at dealing with the card.
Honestly, it's a good thing that there aren't specific cards that deal with specific cards like Shudderwock. Think about it. Having to play with certain cards in your deck doesn't feel good unless you're playing a specific formulaic arrangement. Some tech cards are nice, but even if they released tech cards for something like Shudderwock, half of the people who play this game would purposely choose not to use it and instead complain about Shudderwock more. I've seen it before. People bitching about Ice Block don't tend to run cards that destroy Secrets. That's no one's fault but your own that you have a problem.
No excuses. Either adapt and work through it and try learning how to better play the game or stay a loser. If you want to beat Shudderwock, you could run a variety of Silence cards and play aggressively. You could also run a number of cards that restore Health. You could run a number of cards in your deck. You could also just concede against every Shaman you bump into, you could play Wild with all the tech cards that are available, or you could play the match out when you bump into a Shudderwock Shaman.
By the way, I voted yes on both questions. I like cards like Shudderwock and Dirty Rat. They're both great cards, and you can play them in the same deck, which is a nice bonus.
Those who like control are going to be salty with Shudderwock, and that includes me. Aggro is a pretty simple counter though as others have pointed out before. That said, I dislike two things fundamentally.
First it’s a powerful card that builds with no way to pre-empt. Similar card is kingsbane. No way to stop the water from building behind the damn.
Second, it’s too 1-dimensional. Will never be a fan of a deck that revolves around a single card as the one win condition.
That said, Mechathun looks like a possible neutral counter that some control decks can utilize to help with the current lopsided results, so it’ll be an interesting new meta.
No you seem to be confused, those hard counters don't make that deck interactive.
They are not hard counters, they are soft counters. Tech Cards, Soft Counters to strategies. Hard Counters are decks whose strategy itself counters the other strategy. That would be Pure Aggro, that is the hard counter to a strategy like Exodia Mage.
And no, I'm not confused, that is exactly what the existence of those cards means. The existence of cards which counter a deck is what makes it interactive. For something to be interactive, it requires any action to be able to affect it. Tech Cards which counter a deck are actions that affect a deck, therefore making the deck itself interactive.
For a deck to be uninteractive, the opposite is required. You need a deck which no matter what action the player takes, it doesn't affect it.
Think of Quest Rogue. This is one of the least interactive decks in the game, yet it is still interactive. There are not Soft Counters for that deck, no Tech Cards you can use to help you deal with that matchup if your strategy is weak to it, but there are Hard Counters for that deck, Aggro decks, which counter it. That means there are actions which affect the Quest Rogue and therefore, it is interactive.
Exodia Mage however, a deck which was easily ruined by both Hard and Soft Counters, that is as far from interactive as it gets. (Hard and Soft Counters are the most basic means of interactivity)
So adding dirty rat back into standard makes shudderwock suddenly interactive? If you're going to take a categorical approach to that definition then sure, but it's not the common usage of that term.
When people talk about a deck being interactive, they don't mean that a sniper with good rng can interact with it.
So adding dirty rat back into standard makes shudderwock suddenly interactive? If you're going to take a categorical approach to that definition then sure, but it's not the common usage of that term.
When people talk about a deck being interactive, they don't mean that a sniper with good rng can interact with it.
Actually, Shudderwock is Interactive as it stands. There are Hard Counters for it, Aggro decks, and while there are no Soft Counters, no Tech Cards (Yes in New Expansion there are), you can still change your game plan against them to improve the Matchup, which is also part of it's interactivity, it's an action you can take to affect it. Much like with Jade Druid before Skulking Geist. You could still beat them as a Control deck, you just had to force out a lot of tempo that they couldn't deal with, which was really hard to accomplish as a Control, but was still possible.
I don't particularly care about the common usage, if the common usage is incorrect, I will ignore it and use the proper one. That is what you should do if you know the proper usage, not perpetuate the incorrect one. Interactive is simply that, something which can be interacted with, that being, which you have actions you can take to affect it. For a deck in a card game, it is very easy to translate it. You simply need the deck to have Hard/Soft Counters or even just game play strategies you can use to effectively affect their game plan (like the Jade Druid example).
A truly uninteractive deck could exist, in theory, but it was never the case. You need a deck which is completely unaffected by any actions you take against it. Imagine if Exodia Mage could run an entire deck of Card Draw and Combo Pieces and NEVER be forced to destroy your board or stall your game plan. Imagine that they play 25 Card Draw cards and the other 5 Cards are the Combo pieces and that they don't bother killing your board or anything you do, they just ignore it and win the game with their Combo after drawing it. That would be completely uninteractive. That is just not the case, they don't run 25 Card draw cards, they run a ton of Survival mechanics to be able to execute their game plan because the fact that you can interact with them means they are forced to answer you. The moment they are forced to answer you, it means you took actions that affect their game plan, meaning you interacted with them, making their deck interactive by definition.
And you don't need to be a sniper with good RNG. Let's say I'm playing Exodia Mage, you don't need to be a sniper with good RNG to interact with me, you can just use a card like Eater of Secrets to destroy my defences and kill me. That is still interacting.
Good news everyone, no uninteractive decks in hearthstone!
I'm extremely grateful to any deck that carries a 90% plus winrate against single win condition control and fatigue.
Kingsbane was ok last year but mages could lock it out with too many water elementals. Exodia was probably the closest thing to what I prefer as it was basically an autowin against the types of decks to which I refer unless Dirty Rat got lucky.
In a meta with no shutterwock facsimile, it is possible to build ultra control stuff that basically wins by fatigue and nothing else, which in turn shuts out all other control decks that can't go infinite DMH or have some mill function.
People suggest that Shudderwock narrows the range of viable decks. Nothing could be more false. Take Shudderwock out of the space and you'd see whole classes completely non-viable.
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Hello,
So i was wondering since Shudderwock Shaman became a thing in Hearthstone who actually likes this semi OTK combo deck. Personally i absolutely hate it since it´s just like exodia mage : Draw ur board clears and play ur combo cards just to spam 1 Mana Shudderwock´s with 20 Battlecrys who freeze,heal you and damage the opponnent while also buffing ur minions to oblivion. The gameplay is not interactive and leads almost always to a nearly unwinable winrate if u play Control.
Don´t get me wrong, i don´t say that combo decks shouldn´t exist... but Shudderwock just isn´t healthy for the game because of the non interactive gameplay this deck has... just like exodia mage.
Also another question : Would u like Dirty Rat to be moved to standard?
I hate it and im glad it gets stealth nerfed with next patch making Azalina a countercard.
Yes, i love those type of decks, combo / exodia / otk / kingsbane mill, patron warrior, you name it, those are the most fun and enjoyable decks when stars align.
I don't play with that shit, but I'm ok with it.
I like that it exists, however I think it needs more counter cards such as dirty rat.
As fun as it is to play Shudderwock Shaman, it's very much reminiscent of the old Patron Warrior, which everyone knew as a rather un-interactive deck to play against. Despite it's <50% winrate on hsreplay, it's very damned close to it, and is easily the new control killer should the Shudderwock player reach the combo in time.
Much like old Patron Warrior, I very much see a future where Shudderwock is nerfed.
He just smiled and gave me a Vegemite sandwich!
Those decks have been around since Cthun and Yogg... Most of them revolve around one single card so I think they are fair for both players... It's all RNG
I dont mind shuddrewock, mainly because its a hard combo that doesnt always go off like the person running the deck wants. I would like something like Dirty Rat to tech against combo decks though.
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No you seem to be confused, those hard counters don't make that deck interactive.
The only thing I dislike is that only Warlock and Mage got cards that can deal with cards like Shudderwock at least somewhat. Demonic Project and Research Project at least have a shot at dealing with the card.
Honestly, it's a good thing that there aren't specific cards that deal with specific cards like Shudderwock. Think about it. Having to play with certain cards in your deck doesn't feel good unless you're playing a specific formulaic arrangement. Some tech cards are nice, but even if they released tech cards for something like Shudderwock, half of the people who play this game would purposely choose not to use it and instead complain about Shudderwock more. I've seen it before. People bitching about Ice Block don't tend to run cards that destroy Secrets. That's no one's fault but your own that you have a problem.
No excuses. Either adapt and work through it and try learning how to better play the game or stay a loser. If you want to beat Shudderwock, you could run a variety of Silence cards and play aggressively. You could also run a number of cards that restore Health. You could run a number of cards in your deck. You could also just concede against every Shaman you bump into, you could play Wild with all the tech cards that are available, or you could play the match out when you bump into a Shudderwock Shaman.
By the way, I voted yes on both questions. I like cards like Shudderwock and Dirty Rat. They're both great cards, and you can play them in the same deck, which is a nice bonus.
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Those who like control are going to be salty with Shudderwock, and that includes me. Aggro is a pretty simple counter though as others have pointed out before. That said, I dislike two things fundamentally.
First it’s a powerful card that builds with no way to pre-empt. Similar card is kingsbane. No way to stop the water from building behind the damn.
Second, it’s too 1-dimensional. Will never be a fan of a deck that revolves around a single card as the one win condition.
That said, Mechathun looks like a possible neutral counter that some control decks can utilize to help with the current lopsided results, so it’ll be an interesting new meta.
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So adding dirty rat back into standard makes shudderwock suddenly interactive? If you're going to take a categorical approach to that definition then sure, but it's not the common usage of that term.
When people talk about a deck being interactive, they don't mean that a sniper with good rng can interact with it.
Good news everyone, no uninteractive decks in hearthstone!
I'd rather play against Cancer Combo decks than Braindead Aggro Decks.
I'm extremely grateful to any deck that carries a 90% plus winrate against single win condition control and fatigue.
Kingsbane was ok last year but mages could lock it out with too many water elementals. Exodia was probably the closest thing to what I prefer as it was basically an autowin against the types of decks to which I refer unless Dirty Rat got lucky.
In a meta with no shutterwock facsimile, it is possible to build ultra control stuff that basically wins by fatigue and nothing else, which in turn shuts out all other control decks that can't go infinite DMH or have some mill function.
People suggest that Shudderwock narrows the range of viable decks. Nothing could be more false. Take Shudderwock out of the space and you'd see whole classes completely non-viable.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.