Hearthpwn

Quote from niCe1 >>

Dirty rat, deathlord, mana wraith and nerubar weblord and now demonic project is all we got right now =/

 This^

Also, anything faster paced destroys that deck.

Quote from agon_EU >>

Quote from SamHobbs494 >>

We still have no counter to Freeze/Exodia mage and that is as old as a combo/OTK deck gets. 

Keep dreaming on this one XD

 Not really. You can play around those decks in certain ways. You can destroy their secrets, you can silence your frozen minions or their Doomsayer. Besides they can't heal for crazy amounts and keep board presence too. They have to be careful about their combo pieces too and not just throw those out whenever drawn. 

You can do those things, If you know that's what you are queuing into and happen to have the exact right techs in your deck (i.e the one neutral secret tech card that no one ever plays) but how often is that, i'd say almost about never, especially when you meet it in casual and you are playing some non competitive deck.

Also the new little armour elemental dude makes them not need healing, 2 of those into like 6 board freezes = tonnes of armour. They need to be less careful than ever actually as its currently way easier to pull of than ever before in the decks history with cards like molten reflection and simulacrum still in standard. 

Quote from SamHobbs494 >>

Quote from agon_EU >>

Quote from SamHobbs494 >>

We still have no counter to Freeze/Exodia mage and that is as old as a combo/OTK deck gets. 

Keep dreaming on this one XD

 Not really. You can play around those decks in certain ways. You can destroy their secrets, you can silence your frozen minions or their Doomsayer. Besides they can't heal for crazy amounts and keep board presence too. They have to be careful about their combo pieces too and not just throw those out whenever drawn. 

You can do those things, If you know that's what you are queuing into and happen to have the exact right techs in your deck (i.e the one neutral secret tech card that no one ever plays) but how often is that, i'd say almost about never, especially when you meet it in casual and you are playing some non competitive deck.

Also the new little armour elemental dude makes them not need healing, 2 of those into like 6 board freezes = tonnes of armour. They need to be less careful than ever actually as its currently way easier to pull of than ever before in the decks history with cards like molten reflection and simulacrum still in standard. 

 I would be more than happy to include 1/2 cards to improve my matchup against shudderwock, problem is I can't cause there aren't any. Even if it's a crappy card against all other matchups I would still run it! 

You are wrong about freeze/exodia mage, the decks is relatively weak at the moment and really only playable in wild where it has a lot of counterplays. 

love it!

Aggro decks counter Shudderwock.

Quote from MojoJojo21619 >>

So many stupid posts.  I'll say it again.  SHUDDERWOCK COMBO IS HIGH TIER 1.  It is not tier 2 or tier 3.  Stop bloody saying that.  Where are you getting that information?  I play the game at a high level, have been playing since release and was top 1k legend last season on EU.

At least 30% of the games at legend were shuddwerwock shamans.  There were 0 Baku paladins.  If you're basing tier list on hearthpwns average daily wins then that's just simply wrong.

I'm not going to argue about it.  I'm right.  Look at the pro players who make tier lists.  All will list shudder as tier 1.  Nobody cares about how noobs perform with a deck.  In any game, balance is always based on how the best players perform with a deck/class/hero,  not the overall average.

Baku paladin is easy to counter.  Shudderwock shaman is not.  Shudderwock shaman completely defines the meta.  Baku paladin does not.  They are not even comparable.  I wouldn't even class baku paladin as tier 1.  It's tier 2 at best.

 someone correct me if I'm wrong on this because I feel like I am, but if I'm not mistaken, Shudder is tier 1 in WILD, not STANDARD (again, might be wrong).  So mojo, to avoid bashing you for your opinion, please tell me how you found out that Shudder is tier 1 in both formats before bashing others for their opinion.

Also, tell me HOW shudder DEFINES the meta in both formats.  If it were to DEFINE the meta, then Kingsbane Rogue and Big Priest in Wild would get smacked by it with ease, which isn't the case most of the time, while Odd Paladin and Zoolock would receive the same fate in Standard.  So I don't see where you are coming from when it comes to Shudder being the best in the game.

Quote from MojoJojo21619 >>

So many stupid posts.  I'll say it again.  SHUDDERWOCK COMBO IS HIGH TIER 1.  It is not tier 2 or tier 3.  Stop bloody saying that.  Where are you getting that information?  I play the game at a high level, have been playing since release and was top 1k legend last season on EU.

 

 So many stupid posts. I'll say it again. SHUDDERWOCK COMBO IS MID TIER 2. It is not tier 1 or tier 3. Stop bloody saying that. Where are you getting that information ?
I use Meta analysis sites based on ACTUAL STATISTICAL DATA and not "feelings" or "personal experience" (which are meaningless to accurately describe the meta and tiers).

See https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-100/. You can filter to only take Legend game into account if you want skill to be counted and rank 5- noobs to be ignored. And you will see that, although Shudderwock is the MOST PLAYED deck, it has a winrate of ONLY 50.61%, which means it is Tier 2.

Reminder : Tier is NOT determined by popularity of decks, but by actual winrate.

Baku paladin is easy to counter, but right now it is Tier 1 BECAUSE it is underplayed (less than 5% of decks), and thus people are NOT trying to counter it, and play decks that are weak(-ish) against it.  If more players start playing this deck, more other players will start teching against it (or switching decks), and its winrate will fall, and thus it will become Tier 2. But RIGHT NOW it's a Tier 1 deck.

Thanks

Quote from MojoJojo21619 >>

Quote from GrillaGamingYT >>

Quote from MojoJojo21619 >>

So many stupid posts.  I'll say it again.  SHUDDERWOCK COMBO IS HIGH TIER 1.  It is not tier 2 or tier 3.  Stop bloody saying that.  Where are you getting that information?  I play the game at a high level, have been playing since release and was top 1k legend last season on EU.

At least 30% of the games at legend were shuddwerwock shamans.  There were 0 Baku paladins.  If you're basing tier list on hearthpwns average daily wins then that's just simply wrong.

I'm not going to argue about it.  I'm right.  Look at the pro players who make tier lists.  All will list shudder as tier 1.  Nobody cares about how noobs perform with a deck.  In any game, balance is always based on how the best players perform with a deck/class/hero,  not the overall average.

Baku paladin is easy to counter.  Shudderwock shaman is not.  Shudderwock shaman completely defines the meta.  Baku paladin does not.  They are not even comparable.  I wouldn't even class baku paladin as tier 1.  It's tier 2 at best.

 someone correct me if I'm wrong on this because I feel like I am, but if I'm not mistaken, Shudder is tier 1 in WILD, not STANDARD (again, might be wrong).  So mojo, to avoid bashing you for your opinion, please tell me how you found out that Shudder is tier 1 in both formats before bashing others for their opinion.

Also, tell me HOW shudder DEFINES the meta in both formats.  If it were to DEFINE the meta, then Kingsbane Rogue and Big Priest in Wild would get smacked by it with ease, which isn't the case most of the time, while Odd Paladin and Zoolock would receive the same fate in Standard.  So I don't see where you are coming from when it comes to Shudder being the best in the game.

 Shudder is not Tier 1 in wild.  There are actual counter cards and decks in wild.  Lot's of them.  It's around Tier 3 in wild.  I'm talking about standard here.  You know the mode that over 90% of people play the most.

I'm bashing noobs who think it's bad because they can't play it or don't have all the cards for the top refined version.  If it's tier 3 tell me why around 30%+ of people at high legend are playing it?  What is your top tier deck?  Baku paladin?  There's very few of those at high legend.

I've said it already.  Shudderwock shaman defines the meta more than any other deck.  Druid contributes too for sure.  The meta is hyper aggressive decks and combo decks.  There is very little control.  A couple of mid range decks like dragon taunt druid and cubelock can also beat the combos.  Control is almost dead although a lot of my Rank 5 to top 1k legend was done beating aggro with keleseth big spell mage. 

Quote from Nanaki404 >>

Quote from MojoJojo21619 >>

So many stupid posts.  I'll say it again.  SHUDDERWOCK COMBO IS HIGH TIER 1.  It is not tier 2 or tier 3.  Stop bloody saying that.  Where are you getting that information?  I play the game at a high level, have been playing since release and was top 1k legend last season on EU.

 

 So many stupid posts. I'll say it again. SHUDDERWOCK COMBO IS MID TIER 2. It is not tier 1 or tier 3. Stop bloody saying that. Where are you getting that information ?
I use Meta analysis sites based on ACTUAL STATISTICAL DATA and not "feelings" or "personal experience" (which are meaningless to accurately describe the meta and tiers).

See https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-100/. You can filter to only take Legend game into account if you want skill to be counted and rank 5- noobs to be ignored. And you will see that, although Shudderwock is the MOST PLAYED deck, it has a winrate of ONLY 50.61%, which means it is Tier 2.

Reminder : Tier is NOT determined by popularity of decks, but by actual winrate.

Baku paladin is easy to counter, but right now it is Tier 1 BECAUSE it is underplayed (less than 5% of decks), and thus people are NOT trying to counter it, and play decks that are weak(-ish) against it.  If more players start playing this deck, more other players will start teching against it (or switching decks), and its winrate will fall, and thus it will become Tier 2. But RIGHT NOW it's a Tier 1 deck.

 

 Those statistics are almost meaningless.  You can manipulate statistics to tell whatever story you want.

 Firstly, tell me how you know that 30% of people around the GLOBE are playing Shudder at high legend.  Also, data from HSReplay or VS cannot be manipulated, if it can, tell me how.  https://hsreplay.net/meta/

Secondly, I don't grind for Legend. It's not worth my time like yours. I play HOMEBREW decks like Dragon N'Zoth Warrior and Tiger N'Zoth Druid in Wild (as I'm a Wild only player), but in Standard, I play Arugal Elemental Mage and some Paladin deck with Glass Knight (don't know the name of it).  I'll admit, in BOTH formats, I play a ton of Shudders.  Some wins, some losses, but most of the time, the games are close.  But bashing people who don't agree with you isn't right.  Let them have their opinion for goodness sake.

People are playing with that garbage deck even at low ranks. That kills a want to play the game.

Quote from MojoJojo21619 >>

Fine if you think it's ok for 1 deck to almost completely kill off the control archetype then I don't know what to say.

Control is not even in a bad state.  Lot's of classes can play very good, very powerful control decks.  Warlock, Priest, Warrior, Mage all have super powerful control options but they see very little play because of 1 deck that has super high win rates vs all of them while also maintaining respectable win rates vs aggro. Even if 1 of them had good tools to counter shudder it would help balance the meta.  Maybe warlock will be that 1 class in Boomsday.

The knock on effect of a lack of control decks in the meta is that aggro dominates and is the only 1 with good win rates vs the combos.

This entire meta is shaped heavily by shudder shaman which imo is not good for the game.

Let me just vote with you.  I only make it to rank 10 in my Standard account, but Shudderwock decks basically rolled over me every time.  I played Even Warlock and Zoo Warlock in July, and Shudderwock pwns Even Warlock.  HS Replay shows a win rate of under 50%, but these people who say Shudderwock is bad don't seem to have any personal experience winning against.  

I think the lower reported win rate is due to bad players choosing it and to control being pushed out, as you've mentioned.  I didn't see much of it towards the end of the month (thankfully).    

There is a direct counter, and it is warrior :)

You need following cards:

Drywhisker Armorer

Cornered Sentry

Seaforium Bomber

Azalina Soulthief

After opponent played SW you play Azalina, copy his deck and start play your own 1 mana SW. Now you are getting much more armor than he can drain and placing really a lot of damage inside his deck.

Actually you can fit this pack into any control warrior deck, this cards are really not so bad by itself.

Quote from s1ayer85 >>

There is a direct counter, and it is warrior :)

You need following cards:

Drywhisker Armorer

Cornered Sentry

Seaforium Bomber

Azalina Soulthief

 

After opponent played SW you play Azalina, copy his deck and start play your own 1 mana SW. Now you are getting much more armor than he can drain and placing really a lot of damage inside his deck.

Actually you can fit this pack into any control warrior deck, this cards are really not so bad by itself.

 

 How does this work? Your shudderwock won't get bounced back, since you don't have Grumble

Quote from KingSevault >>

Quote from s1ayer85 >>

There is a direct counter, and it is warrior :)

You need following cards:

Drywhisker Armorer

Cornered Sentry

Seaforium Bomber

Azalina Soulthief

 

After opponent played SW you play Azalina, copy his deck and start play your own 1 mana SW. Now you are getting much more armor than he can drain and placing really a lot of damage inside his deck.

Actually you can fit this pack into any control warrior deck, this cards are really not so bad by itself.

 

 How does this work? Your shudderwock won't get bounced back, since you don't have Grumble

 The Azalina effect gets repeated by your shudderwock, so it will copy the shudderwock in his hand, which will always be there.  

Quote from s1ayer85 >>

There is a direct counter, and it is warrior :)

You need following cards:

Drywhisker Armorer

Cornered Sentry

Seaforium Bomber

Azalina Soulthief

 

After opponent played SW you play Azalina, copy his deck and start play your own 1 mana SW. Now you are getting much more armor than he can drain and placing really a lot of damage inside his deck.

Actually you can fit this pack into any control warrior deck, this cards are really not so bad by itself.

 

 Azalina will not give you 1 mana Shudderwocks ... you get them at 9 mana. 

I thought the same thing (and still think it is how it "should" work, and added her to my Quest Priest deck. With 40 health, and usually some armor, it's pretty easy to survive round 1, but near impossible to survive round 2, so having them at 9 mana screws that idea completely. 

Quote from KingSevault >>

Quote from s1ayer85 >>

There is a direct counter, and it is warrior :)

You need following cards:

Drywhisker Armorer

Cornered Sentry

Seaforium Bomber

Azalina Soulthief

 

After opponent played SW you play Azalina, copy his deck and start play your own 1 mana SW. Now you are getting much more armor than he can drain and placing really a lot of damage inside his deck.

Actually you can fit this pack into any control warrior deck, this cards are really not so bad by itself.

 

 How does this work? Your shudderwock won't get bounced back, since you don't have Grumble

 Your shudderwock will copy opponent hand on each play, so you can straight play it 10 times per turn

Quote from zzAMBIENzz >>

Quote from s1ayer85 >>

There is a direct counter, and it is warrior :)

You need following cards:

Drywhisker Armorer

Cornered Sentry

Seaforium Bomber

Azalina Soulthief

 

After opponent played SW you play Azalina, copy his deck and start play your own 1 mana SW. Now you are getting much more armor than he can drain and placing really a lot of damage inside his deck.

Actually you can fit this pack into any control warrior deck, this cards are really not so bad by itself.

 

 Azalina will not give you 1 mana Shudderwocks ... you get them at 9 mana. 

I thought the same thing (and still think it is how it "should" work, and added her to my Quest Priest deck. With 40 health, and usually some armor, it's pretty easy to survive round 1, but near impossible to survive round 2, so having them at 9 mana screws that idea completely. 

 huh... was it tested?

ah, you already tested it in priest.. this is bad bad news for control warrior.( it means it will be playable only in specific meta, like big mage now (

Quote from zzAMBIENzz >>

Quote from s1ayer85 >>

There is a direct counter, and it is warrior :)

You need following cards:

Drywhisker Armorer

Cornered Sentry

Seaforium Bomber

Azalina Soulthief

 

After opponent played SW you play Azalina, copy his deck and start play your own 1 mana SW. Now you are getting much more armor than he can drain and placing really a lot of damage inside his deck.

Actually you can fit this pack into any control warrior deck, this cards are really not so bad by itself.

 

 Azalina will not give you 1 mana Shudderwocks ... you get them at 9 mana. 

I thought the same thing (and still think it is how it "should" work, and added her to my Quest Priest deck. With 40 health, and usually some armor, it's pretty easy to survive round 1, but near impossible to survive round 2, so having them at 9 mana screws that idea completely. 

 Not after the change, after the change they will be 1 mana.

Wow! So new card copy mechanic will be added after expansion launch?